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Planet Venus 'Fell prey to Global Warning'!!!
Yahoo - AFP ^ | October 18, 2005 | AP

Posted on 10/18/2005 10:29:27 AM PDT by Dr._Joseph_Warren

Venus Express set for liftoff

Venus Express, the European Space Agency's first mission to explore Earth's closest neighbour, will be launched next Wednesday from the Baikonur cosmodrome in Kazakhstan.

The ESA gave the prospective launch time as 0443 GMT.

The 1.27-tonne unmanned spacecraft, which will be taken aloft by a Russian-made Soyuz-Fregat rocket, is expected to arrive at Venus on April 6.

Venus Express, equipped with seven instruments, is intended to map the Venusian surface and weather system, looking at temperature variation, cloud formations, wind speeds and gas composition.

Its main goal is to help understand why Venus fell prey to runaway global warming.

Venus is the second planet from the Sun. It is similar in size, mass and age to Earth, but the two planets are otherwise quite different.

The so-called Morning Star has clouds of suffocating gas driven by hurricane-force winds, as well as a surface pressure and temperature high enough to crush and melt steel.

Venus Express is a sister to Mars Express, an orbiter that is now circling the Red Planet.

Further information is available on (www.esa.int).


TOPICS: News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: catastrophism; globalwarning; kyoto; suvs; velikovsky; venus; venusexpress
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Why did Venus fall prey to runaway global warming?

Oh, I don't know.

Maybe because it is ~30,000,000 miles closer to the sun?

1 posted on 10/18/2005 10:29:29 AM PDT by Dr._Joseph_Warren
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To: Dr._Joseph_Warren

Bush did it!®


2 posted on 10/18/2005 10:31:07 AM PDT by Salamander (Cursed with Second Sight)
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To: Dr._Joseph_Warren
I didn't know there were Republicans on Venus!
3 posted on 10/18/2005 10:32:12 AM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (Islam Factoid:After forcing young girls to watch his men execute their fathers, Muhammad raped them.)
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To: Dr._Joseph_Warren

Wow, talk about great minds thinking alike! That was going to be my answer!


4 posted on 10/18/2005 10:32:27 AM PDT by 2 Kool 2 Be 4-Gotten (Is your problem ignorance or apathy? I don't know and I don't care.)
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To: Dr._Joseph_Warren
"Its main goal is to help understand why Venus fell prey to runaway global warming."

For the same reason Pluto "fell prey" to planetary cooling ;)

5 posted on 10/18/2005 10:32:50 AM PDT by Mr. Mojo
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To: Dr._Joseph_Warren

American Capitalist Imperialism extended all the way to Venus. Facinating!


6 posted on 10/18/2005 10:33:07 AM PDT by Kokojmudd (Trade the US Senate for the Iraqi Parliament!)
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To: Dr._Joseph_Warren

Too many SUV's!


7 posted on 10/18/2005 10:33:40 AM PDT by Gil4 ('When does mama get to hang somebody?!'")
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To: Dr._Joseph_Warren

Woah, humans lived on Venus?


8 posted on 10/18/2005 10:33:40 AM PDT by kx9088
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To: Dr._Joseph_Warren
That's impossible. There are no SUV's, fossil fuel-burning power plants or flatulent cattle on Venus.
9 posted on 10/18/2005 10:33:41 AM PDT by LIConFem (A fronte praecipitium, a tergo lupi.)
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To: Dr._Joseph_Warren

actually, only stupid people fall prey to global warming...


10 posted on 10/18/2005 10:33:54 AM PDT by chilepepper (The map is not the territory -- Alfred Korzybski)
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To: Dr._Joseph_Warren

They might find the bones of evil white men with flannel shirts.


11 posted on 10/18/2005 10:33:54 AM PDT by bmwcyle (We broke Pink's Code and found a terrorist message)
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Comment #12 Removed by Moderator

To: Dr._Joseph_Warren

Global Warning? Who issued it? The Federation?


13 posted on 10/18/2005 10:33:59 AM PDT by Junior (From now on, I'll stick to science, and leave the hunting alien mutants to the experts!)
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To: Dr._Joseph_Warren
Gee Doc, you should know better than to suggest a rational explanation to irrational people.
14 posted on 10/18/2005 10:35:25 AM PDT by HEY4QDEMS (Ham & Eggs: A day's work for a hen, A lifetime commitment for a pig.)
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To: Dr._Joseph_Warren

Blaming all that heat on the sun is taking the easy way out!


15 posted on 10/18/2005 10:35:29 AM PDT by Semper Paratus
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To: Dr._Joseph_Warren

Yeah and the Sun is Global Warmest. What the hell did the Capitalists do there?!


16 posted on 10/18/2005 10:36:10 AM PDT by Sax
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To: Dr._Joseph_Warren
Soyuz-Fregat rocket

Evidently a case of "Fire and Fregat"...

17 posted on 10/18/2005 10:37:02 AM PDT by 2 Kool 2 Be 4-Gotten (Is your problem ignorance or apathy? I don't know and I don't care.)
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To: Dr._Joseph_Warren

"why Venus fell prey to runaway global warming. "

Must have been all the darn cars and factories


18 posted on 10/18/2005 10:37:10 AM PDT by nuconvert (No More Axis of Evil by Christmas ! TLR) [there's a lot of bad people in the pistachio business])
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To: Dr._Joseph_Warren
I love when an article answers its own questions:

Question: ... why Venus fell prey to runaway global warming(?)

Answer: Venus is the second planet from the Sun.

19 posted on 10/18/2005 10:37:38 AM PDT by Lazamataz (Islam is merely Nazism without the snappy fashion sense.)
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To: Salamander
Bush did it!®

Halliburton gets no-bid contract to decrease sun's output by 40% to rectify problem...

Film at 11.

20 posted on 10/18/2005 10:39:25 AM PDT by George Smiley (This tagline deliberately targeted journalists.)
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To: Dr._Joseph_Warren

The ESA apparently has their heads stuck in Uranus.


21 posted on 10/18/2005 10:39:56 AM PDT by OB1kNOb (Sometimes I just can't see the forest for all the gumps.)
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To: Lazamataz
Sun Falls Prey to Global Warming
--------------------------------
Environmentalists Blame Bush, Republicans

22 posted on 10/18/2005 10:40:42 AM PDT by Loud Mime (Hatred is the foundation of socialist movements, conceit is the motivator)
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To: kx9088

Not only humans, but greedy, capitalist, SUV driving humans!


23 posted on 10/18/2005 10:40:58 AM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (G-d is not a Republican. But Satan is definitely a Democrat.)
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To: Dr._Joseph_Warren
It's obvious that big business and the Republicans have been using Venus as a laboratory to test the effects of global warming on a planet before introducing it to Earth.

Sneaky little devils.
24 posted on 10/18/2005 10:43:21 AM PDT by reagan_fanatic (Darwinism is a belief in the meaninglessness of existence - R. Kirk)
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To: Kokojmudd

The use of the phrase "global warming" is unfortunate -
"a runaway greenhouse effect" would more succinctly describe the interesting thing about the temperature of Venus.
Venus is 100's of degrees hotter than would be predicted solely by its distance from the sun. This is caused by its dense atmosphere of over 90% CO2. This was discovered in the 1970s (Carl Sagan is a famous contributor) and is not controversial.

Interestingly, it is thought that it was once much cooler, but that the positive feedback produced by increased temperatures from atmospheric CO2 caused more CO2 to be released from surface minerals, accelerating the process.


25 posted on 10/18/2005 10:43:29 AM PDT by chrisg2001
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To: chrisg2001

Why doesn't Earth's C02 escape through the hole in the Ozone Layer?


26 posted on 10/18/2005 10:49:27 AM PDT by Fog Nozzle
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To: chrisg2001
"but that the positive feedback produced by increased temperatures from atmospheric CO2 caused more CO2 to be released from surface minerals, accelerating the process."

AND THE POINT?

27 posted on 10/18/2005 10:50:26 AM PDT by standingfirm
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To: Dr._Joseph_Warren

Considering a 30% albedo, 70% liquid oceans and almost the exact size of earth. What would the temperature be ona hypothetical second planet from the sun? Is Venus even in the habitable zone for Sol?


28 posted on 10/18/2005 10:51:02 AM PDT by Centurion2000 ((Aubrey, Tx) --- Truth, Justice and the American Way)
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To: LIConFem

Who says ..?? Maybe global warming did them in ..??


29 posted on 10/18/2005 10:51:40 AM PDT by CyberAnt (America has the greatest military on the face of the earth.)
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To: Fog Nozzle

>Why doesn't Earth's C02 escape through the hole in the Ozone Layer?

Well, one obvious answer is that CO2 is heavier than air?

Conservatives should avoid falling into the trap of projecting specific skepticism on global warming caused by industrial CO2 emissions into a general skepticism, ignorance or disdain for basic science, and especially avoid saying things that a smart 12 year old might laugh at.


30 posted on 10/18/2005 10:54:55 AM PDT by chrisg2001
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To: Dr._Joseph_Warren

The interesting thing, though, is that it's surface temperature is quite a bit higher than Mercury's.


31 posted on 10/18/2005 10:55:31 AM PDT by Constantine XIII
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To: George Smiley

Is Karl Rove's Evil Weather Machine® involved, somehow?....:)


32 posted on 10/18/2005 10:56:45 AM PDT by Salamander (Cursed with Second Sight)
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To: standingfirm

I just thought it is interesting. Aren't people interested in the universe around them? Its relevance to earth is not especially strong, since the earth is not going to have no water and a dense almost-all CO2 atmopshere any time soon.
















33 posted on 10/18/2005 10:58:10 AM PDT by chrisg2001
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To: chrisg2001
Actually, it is supposedly hotter on the surface of Venus (400-740k) than on Mercury (90-700k).

Kinda makes you wonder what you could do with Venus if you could introduce some kind of fungus/bacteria into its upper atomsphere that would help re-entrain some of that carbon.

34 posted on 10/18/2005 10:58:39 AM PDT by Dead Corpse (Anyone who needs to be persuaded to be free, doesn't deserve to be. -El Neil)
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To: Constantine XIII

Mercury signed the Kyoto Treaty?....:)


35 posted on 10/18/2005 11:02:45 AM PDT by Salamander (Cursed with Second Sight)
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To: Dead Corpse

Lack of water would be the problem.

We're really lucky to have our plants here. Though it's thought that they might have near destroyed the planet's life at least once (1: by almost freezing it solid permanently when they wiped out our atmopheric methane (a heavy greenhouse gas) by producing free oxygen, and 2: just by introducing so much of the dealdly oxygen molecule in the atmosphere when other life wasn't adapted to it).


36 posted on 10/18/2005 11:03:15 AM PDT by chrisg2001
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To: Dr._Joseph_Warren
The so-called Morning Star has clouds of suffocating gas driven by hurricane-force winds, as well as a surface pressure and temperature high enough to crush and melt steel.

Goddess of love.

37 posted on 10/18/2005 11:03:25 AM PDT by Thinkin' Gal (As it was in the days of NO...)
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To: chrisg2001
Interestingly, it is thought that it was once much cooler, but that the positive feedback produced by increased temperatures from atmospheric CO2 caused more CO2 to be released from surface minerals, accelerating the process.

I appreciate you bringing some actual science discussion to this thread.

I initiated it as a light-hearted jab at the author's choice of politically charged terminology.

However, its good to see someone actually provide the type of valuable information that is usually missing in these MSM articles.

Are there any realistic connection or lessons that can be derived about Earth from studying Venus' environment?

38 posted on 10/18/2005 11:04:45 AM PDT by Dr._Joseph_Warren
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To: Dr._Joseph_Warren

Hot flashes?


39 posted on 10/18/2005 11:04:54 AM PDT by MortMan (Eschew Obfuscation)
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To: Dr._Joseph_Warren

"Its main goal is to help understand why Venus fell prey to runaway global warming."

Wow, that global warming monster lies in wait, preying on innocent planets.

Maybe next they can help understand why stuff falls down instead of sideways.


40 posted on 10/18/2005 11:13:07 AM PDT by L98Fiero
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To: chrisg2001

Hydrogen sulfide and Carbon Dioxide. Re-entrain the carbon. Free up the sulfur. Let nature take it's course.


41 posted on 10/18/2005 11:13:10 AM PDT by Dead Corpse (Anyone who needs to be persuaded to be free, doesn't deserve to be. -El Neil)
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To: Dr._Joseph_Warren

What's a mere 30,000,000 miles between friends??

p.s. Just because Venus has been scorched by the sun for millions of years doesn't mean it's not all BUSH'S FAULT!!


42 posted on 10/18/2005 11:15:53 AM PDT by Enchante (Bill Clinton: "I did not have sex with any of the skeletons in my closet!")
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To: Dead Corpse

Since almost everybody is just talking over their head now I will clarify. Venuses distance from the sun would have made it habitat able if it had the same build up of the atmosphere as the earth. The average temperature on earth is 13 Celsius and the average temperature on Venus would have been 40 Celsius. Because of the atmosphere density of Venus heat gets trapped and global warming occurs. So now the temperature is 500 Celsius


43 posted on 10/18/2005 11:16:57 AM PDT by tomjohn77
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To: Dr._Joseph_Warren

> Are there any realistic connection or lessons that can be derived about Earth from studying Venus' environment?


I guess I'd say that the real worry about any climate changes are the positive feedback loops. There are positive feedback loops present on earth and venus's climates that can act to tip things in a catastrophic direction, either way, cold or hot. There are also negative feedback loops that can drive stuff more towards stability.
Some scientists belive that such events may have happened in earth's early history as the atmosphere's basic composition was undergoing large scale changes (meaning really large scale).

The presence of these feedback terms makes prediction of global termperature a lot more difficult than otherwise - if it were just a straight matter of the magnitude of the greenhouse effect being linearly dependent upon how much Co2 is present in the atmosphere, we could just extrapolate current emissions forward and know how much to worry or not worry. But instead, estimates might be wildly pessimistic or optimistic because not enough is known about the parameters of the feedback terms.


Some of those can probably be observed on other planets, though some are biological in nature and so only happed here as far as we know. Hopefully the triggers for these positive loops getting out of control are far away from current conditions, and chances are they are, but it would certainly be nice to know more.


44 posted on 10/18/2005 11:17:17 AM PDT by chrisg2001
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To: tomjohn77

With an average temp of 40C, there would still likely be places you wouldn't want to live. You'd want to stay away from the equitorial and temperate regions, but the poles would probably be somewhat pleasant.


45 posted on 10/18/2005 11:19:25 AM PDT by JamesP81
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To: Dr._Joseph_Warren

It was all those Venusians and their nasty fossil-fuel-burning flying SUVs.


46 posted on 10/18/2005 11:19:46 AM PDT by Politicalmom (Must I use a sarcasm tag?)
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To: Dr._Joseph_Warren
Maybe because it is ~30,000,000 miles closer to the sun?

Ding Ding Ding Ding!! We have a winner. Venus is not within the range of what scientist believe life could be maintainable and possible.. Earth and Mars are the only 2 that they believe might... with an outside chance on Europa in the waters, if they are warmed beneath by geothermal activity.

47 posted on 10/18/2005 11:19:49 AM PDT by HamiltonJay
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To: kx9088
It means that humans are not responsible for global warming. It is a natural phenomenon.
48 posted on 10/18/2005 11:19:58 AM PDT by kabar
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To: tomjohn77

Just spit balling here, but would it be possible to splice genes from the algae that grows in the Yellowstone hot springs with blue-green oceanic algae and seed the Venusian atmosphere? A few hundred years, and after the sulfuric acid rain stops and the percentage of O2 increases far enough, we could build public housing...


49 posted on 10/18/2005 11:27:18 AM PDT by jonascord (What is better than the wind at 6 O'clock on the 600 yard line?)
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To: Dead Corpse

Actually, nobody here has yet mentioned the biggest reason why Venus is overheated, and why terraforming would never work. Venus is practically tide locked to the Sun. A year on Venus is 224 Earth-days long. A DAY on Venus is 243 Earth-days long. This means one day lasts longer than one year. Without actually doing the math, this also means that if you watched the sun rise on one Venusian horizon, it would take almost 13 Earth-years for it to trek across the sky and set on the other horizon. Since its poles have no appreciable tilt and the planet has no seasons, the surface essentially superheated.

Venus is actually located within the band of our solar system that could, theoretically, support human life. If we could thin out the atmosphere and speed up its spin rate, Venus could eventually have large habitable zones with shirtsleeve weather at the poles (the equator would be a vast desert). Since the mechanics of changing the rotational rate of a planet are so far beyond us that even thinking about it is laughable, we realistically have to conclude that it will never be populated.

Oh, and one other scientific oddity. Venus isn't perfectly tide locked with the Sun, but it IS tide locked with the EARTH. Our gravity doesn't effect the planet enough to tide lock it, so most scientists write it off as coincidence. We can't see it through the clouds, but whenever we look at Venus, the same side of the planet is facing us. (Personally, I think there's a reason for that...both the odd rotation of Venus and the formation of our own tide locked moon seem to have resulted from huge impacts. My suspicion is that the impacts occurred simultaneously, or that Venus may have been involved with the impact itself).


50 posted on 10/18/2005 11:30:54 AM PDT by Arthalion
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