The Intellectual Origins Of America-Bashing

Hoover Institution's Policy Review Online ^ | Dec '02 | Lee Harris

[baseball_fan]

snip...

America-bashing is anti-Americanism at its most radical and totalizing. Its goal is not to advise, but to condemn; not to fix, but to destroy. It repudiates every thought of reform in any normal sense; it sees no difference between American liberals and American conservatives; it views every American action, both present and past, as an act of deliberate oppression and systemic exploitation. It is not that America went wrong here or there; it is that it is wrong root and branch. The conviction at the heart of those who engage in it is really quite simple: that America is an unmitigated evil, an irredeemable enormity.

This is the specter that is haunting the world today. Indeed, one may even go so far as to argue that this America is the fundamental organizing principle of the left as it exists today: To be against America is to be on the right side of history; to be for it is to be on the wrong side.

But let’s pause to ask a question whose answer the America-bashers appear to assume they know: What is the right side of history at this point in history?

...snip

[Visiting Liberal]

Honestly? No, I didn't read the article. I saw the term "America-Bashing" and, having seen it more times than I could count, felt I should respond to it. I suppose I should read the article, if only to understand how an analysis of Marx's ideas could lead to accusing liberals of "America-Bashing." Liberals aren't communists, and don't adhere to Marx's philosophy. I certainly don't; communism is a theory that only works in an absolute black-and-white moral world. As soon as human greed, envy, and pigheadedness come into play, it falls apart.

[Visiting Liberal]

Or else I'll ask you more sternly not to do it. :)

Seriously, I don't hate my country. The idea that I should even have to point that out is sad.

[baseball_fan]

"This is an older article, I believe..."

>Yes, Dec '02, but still seems important, I was unaware of the evolution in the debate and how some left opinion-makers see themselves.

"This is not necessarily the root of America-bashing..."

>...?

[elbucko]

Seriously, I don't hate my country.

I don't think you do. However, there are those, on both sides of the isle, that profit politically from the differences of policy between "Conservative" and "Liberal". It's not America that's at stake, or freedom, or World Peace, but just some peoples careers.

[baseball_fan]

"Honestly? No, I didn't read the article...I suppose I should."

That would help.

[headsonpikes]

communism is a theory that only works in an absolute black-and-white moral world. As soon as human greed, envy, and pigheadedness come into play, it falls apart.

Just as I suspected the 'liberal' position to be:

communism is a perfect system - it's people who are flawed.

It is my observation that this is the Big Lie that is the foundation stone of every totalitarian regime.

[schu]

Bump for later

[Darksheare]

Liberals DO America Bash.
Look at how they treat the flag, how they spew hatred at US soldiers, how they call our soldiers 'baby killers', how they scream and shout at people who proudly display the flag, how they constantly say stupid things along the lines of America deserving 9/11...

You cannot say that Liberals don't bash America.

[rogue yam]

Seriously, I don't hate my country. The idea that I should even have to point that out is sad.

Dude. I live in Frisco. I go to all of the commie rallies. The left is lousy with people who hate America. So you say you aren't one of them? Whoopty-frickin'-doo! The very fact that you come on to this thread and spew a bunch of whiny nonsense, while ignoring the plain reality that many of your fellow lefties are evil, lying haters of America, makes me think that you, yourself, are a profoundly dishonest person. Thus, I conclude that you almost certainly hate America.

[Visiting Liberal]

Just as I suspected the 'liberal' position to be:

communism is a perfect system - it's people who are flawed.

You drastically misunderstand me. My intention wasn't to say that people are flawed, it was to point out that communism is. Any system that only works if people are...

1) Exactly the same
2) Perfect in every way
3) Capable of producing exactly as much output of resources as they use

...is a terrible system.

Every economic system has its strengths and weaknesses. Liberals tend to think that the best economic system is capitalism tempered with some socialism, such as in medical insurance. But we've got no illusions that that's a perfect system either.

Every economic system can and will be abused by those who know how to work it.

[Visiting Liberal]

Liberals DO America Bash.
Look at how they treat the flag, how they spew hatred at US soldiers, how they call our soldiers 'baby killers', how they scream and shout at people who proudly display the flag, how they constantly say stupid things along the lines of America deserving 9/11...

Painting me with the same blanket statements you would use to paint the most fringy of the fringe does both you and me a disservice. I have never acted like that, and most liberals don't. Similarly, most conservatives don't spew hatred like Fred Phelps or the like. But some do. Should I, then, accuse you of being a "jingoistic, ignorant, racist, redneck hick" because you're a conservative?

No. Absolutely not. I don't hate you. I disagree with you. There's a huge difference.

As an aside, I have a problem with the way most people in my city display the American flag. My problem? No, it's not the fact that they display it. It's the disrespect with which they display it. They leave it hanging out rain or shine, let it get ragged and moldy, they don't fly it at half-staff at the proper times, they let it get faded and discolored without properly retiring it and replacing it with a fresh one, and they think that a sun-bleached American flag magnet in their car window somehow makes them more patriotic than me.

It doesn't. It makes them more willing to buy crud made in China.

[headsonpikes]

Every economic system has its strengths and weaknesses. Liberals tend to think that the best economic system is capitalism tempered with some socialism, such as in medical insurance. But we've got no illusions that that's a perfect system either. Every economic system can and will be abused by those who know how to work it.

Let me be frank.

IMHO, your posts demonstrate a naivete about the possibility of melding free human action with socialism in any guise.

To me, the clear evidence of history is that the state has the skills and power to kill and destroy, but not to nurture or create.

But that's okay - that's all I, as a conservative, can ask the state to do!

It's you guys who have the problem of reconciling the sordid realities of the human experience wth your 'ideals'.

[Darksheare]

"Painting me with the same blanket statements you would use to paint the most fringy of the fringe does both you and me a disservice."

Sorry, it is the heart and core of Liberalism.
If you don't likei that it is pointed out, change it.
Any Dem senator or Representative that slams the U.S. and blames America for what happened on 9/11 should get teh boot, right?
If you don't like the so-called 'blanket statement', change the reason it is a true statement.

"I have a problem with the way most people in my city display the American flag."

So you don't like someone displaying the flag?
There are all weather flags, and if you have a light shining on it, it may be left up at night.

Next?

[Visiting Liberal]

Dude. I live in Frisco. I go to all of the commie rallies. The left is lousy with people who hate America. So you say you aren't one of them? Whoopty-frickin'-doo! The very fact that you come on to this thread and spew a bunch of whiny nonsense, while ignoring the plain reality that many of your fellow lefties are evil, lying haters of America, makes me think that you, yourself, are a profoundly dishonest person. Thus, I conclude that you almost certainly hate America.

I'm genuinely curious about this: What exactly have the liberals you've witnessed done or said that makes you think they hate America? I've seen and heard lots of statements that lead me to believe they share my dislike for this government and its policies, but nothing that screams "I hate America."

Please give me some examples of mainstream liberals showing their hatred. I'm not looking for the wacko fringe (unless you want me to turn around and present Fred Phelps as a "typical conservative"), I'm looking for the real thing.

[trisham]

Seriously, I don't hate my country. The idea that I should even have to point that out is sad.

****************

Why?

[Billthedrill]

Yes, Dec '02...

Er, yes...that would be the largish bold letters at the top that I read right over, wouldn't it? Hmm...

When I said it wasn't necessarily the root of America-bashing I meant that that wasn't the thrust of the article. I do think that the idea of distributing immiserization to the Third World was more of a polemical idea than an advance of Marxist theory - it was controversial in Marxist circles at the time and has become a keystone more through longevity than through theoretical soundness.

In point of fact, America-bashing of at least the current European variety does have a long and storied Marxist origin. Jean-Francois Revel wrote an excellent treatment of this in his recent Anti-Americanism, a must-read on the topic. Highly recommended.

[Vermonter]

Painting me with the same blanket statements you would use to paint the most fringy of the fringe does both you and me a disservice. I have never acted like that, and most liberals don't. Similarly, most conservatives don't spew hatred like Fred Phelps or the like. But some do. Should I, then, accuse you of being a "jingoistic, ignorant, racist, redneck hick" because you're a conservative?

The difference is that when a 'conservative' takes an anti-semitic/racist/name your PC favorite stance he is called on it by fellow conservatives.

Liberals can say the most outrageous things in any category and no one on your side calls them on it. Take the likes of Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, Ted Kennedy, Robert Byrd..... and on and on.... Where are those on your side to call your leaders on their hypocrisy?

[Visiting Liberal]

Here's a puzzle for you, then. If the state only has the "power to kill and destroy," why exactly are we in Iraq at the moment? We seem to be engaged in a nation-building exercise using the tool least suited to the task - i.e., the state.

Now, as it stands I actually agree with you on some levels. However, I firmly believe we, in this country, have succeeded in creating the best possible state, as it's the first to be by, of, and for the people. The worst thing that could happen would be if that stopped being the case.

[Darksheare]

Let's give you a small ink blot test.
What do you see when you see this:

[MikefromOhio]

Here's a puzzle for you, then. If the state only has the "power to kill and destroy," why exactly are we in Iraq at the moment? We seem to be engaged in a nation-building exercise using the tool least suited to the task - i.e., the state.

Don't be a noob....noob.....