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Experts refute anti-bacterial soap claims
Seattle Post-Intelligencer ^ | October 21, 2005 | JOHN J. LUMPKIN

Posted on 10/21/2005 9:07:54 PM PDT by neverdem

ASSOCIATED PRESS

WASHINGTON -- Antibacterial soaps and washes aren't any better than plain, old soap and water for fighting illness in the household, says a panel of federal health advisers.

They warned manufacturers they will have to prove their products' benefits or they may be restricted from marketing them.

Dr. Alastair Wood, chairman of the panel which met Thursday to advise the Food and Drug Administration, said he saw no reason to purchase antibacterial products, given they generally cost more than soap.

The advisers also worried the potential risks of the products, particularly the common hand soaps and body washes that use synthetic chemicals, create an environmental hazard and could contribute to the growth of bacteria that are resistant to antibiotics.

"I think we're seeing a lot of sentiment against (antibacterials) being marketed to the consumer" unless they can show some added benefit over regular soap and water, said Dr. Mary E. Tinetti, a member of the panel.

Industry representatives contend their products are safe and more effective than conventional soaps, because they kill germs instead of just washing them off. They said consumers should have a right to choose their products in a free market.

Their products have grown significantly in popularity in the last decade, as consumers decided killing germs was better than simply washing them down the drain.

But the FDA said controlled studies found no significant difference in infections in households using antibacterial products and those with regular soap and water.

On Thursday, the agency's Nonprescription Drugs Advisory Panel, composed of independent experts, recommended no specific regulatory action against the manufacturers, but called on FDA to study the products' risks versus their benefits.

The agency has the authority to order warning labels on the products or place restrictions on how they are marketed to the public. Susan Johnson, associate director of nonprescription products for the FDA, said the agency would pay close attention to the panel's concerns.

FDA officials and panelists raised concerns about whether the antibacterials contribute to the growth of drug-resistant bacteria, and said the agency has not found any medical studies that definitively linked specific antibacterial products to reduced infection rates.

Dr. Stuart B. Levy, president of the Alliance for Prudent Use of Antibiotics, said laboratory studies have suggested the soaps sometimes leave behind bacteria that have a better ability to flush threatening substances - from antibacterial soap chemicals to antibiotics - from their system.

"What we're seeing is evolution in action," he said of the process.

He advocated restricting antibacterial products from consumer use, leaving them solely for hospitals and homes with very sick people.

"Bacteria are not going to be destroyed," he said. "They've seen dinosaurs come and go. They will be happy to see us come and go. Any attempt to sterilize our home is fraught with failure."

Levy said overuse of antibiotics is the main cause of bacteria developing resistance to them. He acknowledged that a yearlong study showed that homes using antibacterial soaps did not show an increase in resistant bacteria in significant numbers, but he argued the soaps will still contribute to resistance over a longer period.

Industry representatives said they would provide more information to FDA about their products safety and effectiveness.

"The importance of controlling bacteria in the home is no different than the professional setting," said Elizabeth Anderson, associate general counsel for the Cosmetic, Toiletry and Fragrance Association. "We feel strongly that consumers must continue to have the choice to use these products."

Panelists also distinguished alcohol-based hand cleansers from antibacterial soaps and washes. The cleansers are particularly useful in situations in which soap and water are not available.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; Extended News; Government; News/Current Events; US: District of Columbia; US: Maryland
KEYWORDS: antibacterialsoaps

1 posted on 10/21/2005 9:07:54 PM PDT by neverdem
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To: neverdem

I love the stuff!


2 posted on 10/21/2005 9:08:20 PM PDT by HitmanLV (Listen to my demos for Savage Nation ccontest: http://www.geocities.com/mr_vinnie_vegas/index.html)
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To: neverdem

you know all of these scientist can go to he.l


3 posted on 10/21/2005 9:08:40 PM PDT by Flavius (Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum")
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To: neverdem

We're doomed. We're all doomed!


4 posted on 10/21/2005 9:10:48 PM PDT by writer33 (Rush Limbaugh walks in the footsteps of giants: George Washington, Thomas Paine and Ronald Reagan.)
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To: neverdem

That does it! I'm not washing up any more.


5 posted on 10/21/2005 9:13:42 PM PDT by bnelson44 (Proud parent of a tanker!)
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To: neverdem
The agency has the authority to order warning labels on the products

That will work real well!

WARNING!

This product has been shown to kill germs.

6 posted on 10/21/2005 9:17:01 PM PDT by WildTurkey (I BELIEVE CONGRESSMAN WELDON!)
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To: neverdem
Their products have grown significantly in popularity in the last decade, as consumers decided killing germs was better than simply washing them down the drain.

I prefer to hang out with clean consumers rather than dirty bureaucrats telling me what to buy.

7 posted on 10/21/2005 9:21:56 PM PDT by operation clinton cleanup
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To: El Gato; JudyB1938; Ernest_at_the_Beach; Robert A. Cook, PE; lepton; LadyDoc; jb6; tiamat; PGalt; ..
Scientists Build Tiny Vehicles for Molecular Passengers

FDA approves brain stem cell transplant

Neuronal ceroid lipofuscinoses (NCLS), i.e. another name for what they are proposing to treat with that stem cell transplant

FReepmail me if you want on or off my health and science ping list. Anyone can post any unrelated link as they see fit.

8 posted on 10/21/2005 9:22:52 PM PDT by neverdem (May you be in heaven a half hour before the devil knows that you're dead.)
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To: neverdem
P&G (the devil worshiping company) is NOT gonna be happy about this.

:)

9 posted on 10/21/2005 9:23:03 PM PDT by upchuck (I BELIEVE CONGRESSMAN WELDON! Rumsfeld: go kick butt and fix this!!)
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To: neverdem

Some non scientific testing on my part, bathing with different varieties of the same soap (Lever 2000) showed the antibacterial soap reduced the incidence of, ahem, body zits compared with its non antibacterial cousins. I'd expect that to happen since the soap doesn't entirely wash away; a small residue remains in the skin. To do a more scientific test, one would have to test the same soap formulation with no differences other than the antibacterial component (triclocarban or triclosan).


10 posted on 10/21/2005 9:23:35 PM PDT by The Red Zone (Florida, the sun-shame state, and Illinois the chicken injun.)
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To: operation clinton cleanup

A good old bar of Ivory soap will do just as well as the anti bacterials----and Ivory floats-(not that anyone except kids care anymore).


11 posted on 10/21/2005 9:28:54 PM PDT by Mears (The Killer Queen)
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To: Mears

I agree... (as a contractor to P&G)


12 posted on 10/21/2005 9:31:14 PM PDT by operation clinton cleanup
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To: The Red Zone

The zit problem sounds like a good reason. An unscientific observation on my part is that kids that are raised in a sterile environment tend to be more sickly than kids that are allowed to get down and dirty. It makes sense to me because they are allowed to actually develop resistance to bacteria. Because of that, I tend to vote against using anti-bacterial soaps.


13 posted on 10/21/2005 9:32:22 PM PDT by mongrel
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To: mongrel
An unscientific observation on my part is that kids that are raised in a sterile environment tend to be more sickly than kids that are allowed to get down and dirty.

One would need to track down the causation; it could also be that parents of children who get sick more often try to take more precautions.

14 posted on 10/21/2005 9:35:36 PM PDT by The Red Zone (Florida, the sun-shame state, and Illinois the chicken injun.)
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To: neverdem

OK, here is the deal.

I keep a tube of anti-bacterial soap in my laptop case. I meet people from Asia, shake hands, and sit at the table. I notice they are sniffling.

I casually pull the tube from my bag, squirt a bit on my hands, and rub it in under the table. They have no idea.

Now, explain to me how this is not better than getting up and walking to the bathroom to wash my hands with soap and water????


15 posted on 10/21/2005 9:37:41 PM PDT by Paloma_55 (Which part of "Common Sense" do you not understand???)
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To: neverdem

Anti-bacterial soaps fight body odors better than any old-fashioned soap.

And if I'm dining out, that restroom had better be equipped with anti-bacterial soap, or management is going to hear from me.


What kind of luddite bullshit is this?


16 posted on 10/21/2005 9:40:14 PM PDT by Petronski (The name "cyborg" to me means complete love and incredible fun. I'm filled with joy.)
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To: operation clinton cleanup

I still remember the old radio ads-

"Ivory Soap---99 and 44/100ths percent pure,and it floats."

Yep,I'm old.


17 posted on 10/21/2005 9:42:21 PM PDT by Mears (The Killer Queen)
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To: Mears

Ivory floats because they whip air into it. Don't be naive.


18 posted on 10/21/2005 9:42:52 PM PDT by Petronski (The name "cyborg" to me means complete love and incredible fun. I'm filled with joy.)
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To: Petronski

I know why it floats---just stating a fact. I'm far from naive.

Jeesh!


19 posted on 10/21/2005 9:52:10 PM PDT by Mears (The Killer Queen)
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To: neverdem
They say the antibacterials don't work, but then they say they are leading to super bactertia. The latter accusation would be based on them killing off most bacteria and leaving behind the more resistant - just like with antibiotics.

Then you see they have absolutely no proof of either accusation. Statistics on infections reported in households is not the same as knowing whether the products kill harmful bacteria. Then they admit there is no evidence any super bacteria are being caused.

They want to restrict the use to hospitals. If they don't work and breed super bugs, why do they use them in hospitals????

20 posted on 10/21/2005 10:13:52 PM PDT by Williams
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To: Petronski

Anti-bacterial handsoaps really don't kill that much bacteria. In my first year of medical school, I grew a culture of the bacteria growing on my fingers - after I washed very thoroughly with an anti-bacteral soap that's commonly used in hospitals. All sorts of bacteria were still on my hands, and grew colonies on the plate.

Certain of the alcohol-based sanitizing gels and foams are actually a little more effective. But nothing is going to get your hands entirely free of bacteria.


21 posted on 10/21/2005 10:21:01 PM PDT by The Phantom FReeper (Have you hugged your soldier today?)
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To: mongrel; neverdem
I wonder if this a voicing of concern to immunity to the antibacterial Triclosan?</p>
22 posted on 10/21/2005 10:25:33 PM PDT by endthematrix (Those who despise freedom and progress have condemned themselves to isolation, decline, and collapse)
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To: The Phantom FReeper

Re: body odor, I only know what works for me.

As for studies on the hands, most people don't use anti-bacterial soaps properly: wet hands, apply soap, smear/scrub/rub thoroughly (above the wrist). Apply a bit of water, repeat. Rinse.


23 posted on 10/21/2005 10:25:46 PM PDT by Petronski (The name "cyborg" to me means complete love and incredible fun. I'm filled with joy.)
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To: Williams

"They want to restrict the use to hospitals. If they don't work and breed super bugs, why do they use them in hospitals????"


It's the Hospital LOBBY.

They want you to get sick and you're admitted to their facility to get cured by.....washing your hands.


It's a conspiracy I tell ya. (sarcasm)


24 posted on 10/22/2005 12:37:18 AM PDT by RedMonqey (Life is hard. It's even harder when you're stupid.)
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To: neverdem; All
I swear by this stuff:

Octagon Laundry Bar Soap, 7 Oz

Just plain old Laundry Soap, and it lasts forever. Some like Fels Naptha, but it's hard to find here.

25 posted on 10/22/2005 2:18:42 AM PDT by backhoe (-30-)
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To: Williams
"They say the antibacterials don't work"

No, they say that antibacterials aren't any better than washing.

26 posted on 10/22/2005 3:16:04 AM PDT by endthematrix (Those who despise freedom and progress have condemned themselves to isolation, decline, and collapse)
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To: neverdem

Dr. Dean Edell said that years (5 or 6) ago on one of his shows.


27 posted on 10/22/2005 3:17:52 AM PDT by Dustbunny (Main Stream Media -- Making 'Max Headroom' a reality.)
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To: backhoe
I swear by this stuff

Yepper!!! Best stuff made next to Fels Naptha. There was also a coal tar soap that was really good but have not been able to find it.

28 posted on 10/22/2005 3:21:21 AM PDT by Dustbunny (Main Stream Media -- Making 'Max Headroom' a reality.)
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To: Dustbunny
I swear by this stuff Yepper!!! Best stuff made next to Fels Naptha. There was also a coal tar soap that was really good but have not been able to find it.

I used Octagon years ago, when I did mechanical work and needed a good, basic strong soap that was cheap, since I used a ton of it.

Last year, Mrs. B got some poison Ivy, ahem! on her lower regions ( don't ask! ) and that was the only thing that did a halfway decent job of getting the oils off of her.

It's getting hard to find around here- the area is getting gentrified by folks from the big cities, and only one Winn-Dixie still carries it.

29 posted on 10/22/2005 3:29:03 AM PDT by backhoe
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To: backhoe; Dustbunny

re: the octagon or fels naptha -

I can see it for the poison ivy, but do you use it for every day soap? Or just tough duty soap? I keep a bar in the laundry room for tough stains, but that's about it...

and I can find it in the laundry section in almost every supermarket....


30 posted on 10/22/2005 4:20:53 AM PDT by bitt (THE PRESIDENT: "Ask the pollsters. My job is to lead and to solve problems. ")
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To: bitt

Actually, I use it in the kitchen as everyday soap- the bar is huge, and lasts a long time. I have used it to get grease out of my hair, as shampoo, as well.


31 posted on 10/22/2005 4:25:50 AM PDT by backhoe
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To: backhoe

I used Octagon years ago, when I did mechanical work"

Lava is my soap of choice for cleaning oil and grit from my hands. It contains pumice, and really does a great job of grinding away oily dirt and grime.


32 posted on 10/22/2005 4:35:14 AM PDT by AlexW (Reporting from Bratislava)
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To: AlexW
Lava is my soap of choice for cleaning oil and grit from my hands. It contains pumice, and really does a great job of grinding away oily dirt and grime.

We keep Lava around here, too- plus Go-Jo.

33 posted on 10/22/2005 4:37:55 AM PDT by backhoe
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To: mongrel

Let your kids play in the dirt, just make 'em wash up afterwards. It is hard to build a immune system watching TV or playing video games.


34 posted on 10/22/2005 4:42:11 AM PDT by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly.)
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To: Williams
They say the antibacterials don't work, but then they say they are leading to super bactertia.

You noticed that, too, eh?

It's hard to figure what exactly is going on with this, but it looks like either someone wants money from the triclosan manufacturers or else the pharmaceutical/medical crew wants it to be one of those things where you have to pay a doctor for the right to use it.

I have used Dial antibacterial liquid for 12 or 15 years now. I've used off-brands, and they seem generally less effective.

Dittos also to an earlier post re: those little body zits, and though it doesn't cure facial acne, it certainly seems to help prevent little whiteheads from becoming big red gnarly pus-sacs as often.

We need a website that gives detailed instructions for manufacturing antibiotics in your kitchen, while it's still legal to post such things.

35 posted on 10/22/2005 5:30:12 AM PDT by Yeti ("He might be drunk!")
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To: bitt

I don't use it for bathing but keep it handy in the kitchen and mud room. It is great because it leaves no residue. I have used it for conditioner buildup. Many of the old soaps are making a come back. Not that many years ago we made a batch of lye soap from a pig we butchered, it came out well an lasted a long time. Since we no longer raise out own meat and most of the butcher shops have closed, it is hard to find the pure white fat.


36 posted on 10/22/2005 5:34:09 AM PDT by Dustbunny (Main Stream Media -- Making 'Max Headroom' a reality.)
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To: neverdem

Ordinary soap is a powerful anti-bacterial. It's a strong surfactant and rips bacterial cell wall apart. There's probably no reason to add anything else. No antibiotics for sure and I doubt that quaternary ammonium salts or other inorganics probably don't increase their killing ability.


37 posted on 10/22/2005 5:37:03 AM PDT by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch ist der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: Mears

In the shower?


38 posted on 10/22/2005 5:48:03 AM PDT by steve8714
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To: backhoe

Lava is good for teens' faces.


39 posted on 10/22/2005 5:50:01 AM PDT by steve8714
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To: Williams
given that a huge percentage of infection in hosptials happen not because of the soap, but the lack of use by the staff of either soap or water; this exclusive use by hospitals is silly.

Doctors think they are the ansswer to every problem and that they should have all healing at their fingers - pun intended. Use the Best Soap you can find...often.

This is an example of the MSM needing a negative story instead of a positive one showing why people live longer and healthier in America.

40 posted on 10/22/2005 6:32:32 AM PDT by q_an_a
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To: Mears

Ivory sucks. The soap breaks off into pieces after just several uses and it ends up being wasted.


41 posted on 10/22/2005 6:35:54 AM PDT by Extremely Extreme Extremist (Harmful or Fatal if Swallowed)
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To: Paloma_55
Doesn't soap get sticky?

I use Purell. It's alcohol based and doesn't need rinsing. I suspect it's more likely to kill viruses which seems to be the bugs you have to worry about.

42 posted on 10/22/2005 7:24:17 AM PDT by lizma
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To: steve8714
Lava is good for teens' faces.

Ow! Sort of a super Buff-Puff?

43 posted on 10/22/2005 10:44:45 AM PDT by backhoe
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To: Dustbunny; backhoe; All

who is ready for the best laundry stain remover in history?

put in a spray bottle, equal parts of:

dishwasher dteregent (gel or liquid)
ammonia
water.

shake . try it on the armpits of white tee shirts. Hoooooray!


44 posted on 10/23/2005 7:08:30 AM PDT by bitt (THE PRESIDENT: "Ask the pollsters. My job is to lead and to solve problems. ")
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To: bitt

I'll try that- thanks!


45 posted on 10/23/2005 8:45:17 AM PDT by backhoe (-30-)
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To: bitt
Yepper, that does work.

If you have a skin problem like psoriasis, pine tar soap is great.

If you have a problem with mouth ulcers, Acidophilus works great.

Amazing how some of the old cures work better than the new and have no side affects.

46 posted on 10/23/2005 11:57:02 AM PDT by Dustbunny (Main Stream Media -- Making 'Max Headroom' a reality.)
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To: backhoe

kept me clear and smooth..


47 posted on 10/23/2005 5:32:51 PM PDT by steve8714
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To: neverdem

I always carry Purell with me. I have noticed lately that it's getting hard to find. Walmart had only two bottles left the other day. I think it's the flu scare.


48 posted on 10/23/2005 5:36:21 PM PDT by WestCoastGal (Short track racing is like walking thru a minefield-give the guy in front some room, you get booted)
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