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.40 vs .45 LAW ENFORCEMENT USE

Posted on 10/26/2005 1:36:11 AM PDT by bramdawg

Going onto a local PD in los angeles area. Have heard stories both about .40's and .45's what is really the difference. I know comfort is important put I want to know if I will be safe with a .40 or if I should go with .45. I want the best gun for my job.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; US: California; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: banglist; bbgunnin; lyingtroll
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1 posted on 10/26/2005 1:36:11 AM PDT by bramdawg
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To: bramdawg
You really opened a can of worms with that question.

I immagine the department will tell you what to carry. The 40 will probably serve you as well as a .45 though the .45 is my prefrence after 40+ years experience with it. Good results wiith either caliber depends greatly where you put the bullet. In a gun fight, there is no caliber that makes you safe.

2 posted on 10/26/2005 1:41:08 AM PDT by Lion Den Dan
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To: bramdawg

May you be safe and effective in you career, and God bless you and yours.


3 posted on 10/26/2005 1:42:37 AM PDT by spetznaz (Nuclear-tipped Ballistic Missiles: The Ultimate Phallic Symbol)
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To: bramdawg
Hoo, boy! You'll get lots of opinions on this one. Bottom line, it comes down to whichever you're most comfortable with, and whichever you can control. You could carry a cannon in your holster, and it wouldn't make any difference if you couldn't control it and hit what you aim at. So shoot both at the range, if they'll allow it. Shoot as many rounds through each as possible, with as many different guns as possible, keeping in mind that certain departments may only allow certain guns. Then make your decision based on that.
4 posted on 10/26/2005 1:46:55 AM PDT by Jokelahoma (Animal testing is a bad idea. They get all nervous and give wrong answers.)
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To: bramdawg
Most departments have policies on what you will carry. A few however still allow officers the choice. If I was on the job and given the choice, I would opt for a .357 mag revolver(yes a 6 shot wheel gun) and load with 125 grain hollow points (.357 rounds not .38 special). I know a lot of people will say you need the extra magazine capacity of a semi. But I disagree. If you can't hit your target with 6 rounds you have no business carrying a gun. And there is no semi that has the stopping power of a .357 mag. You can shoot someone with a 9mm or .40 cal and yes even the much vaunted .45 several times and not bring them down. But you hit someone with a 357 mag and promise you they will immediately desist in whatever anti-social behavior they were engaged in.
5 posted on 10/26/2005 1:47:38 AM PDT by jec1ny (Adjutorium nostrum in nomine Domine Qui fecit caelum et terram.)
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To: bramdawg

Shot placement is vastly more important than caliber.

Handguns are a horrible tradeoff of power for portability.

Don't worry about caliber. Use what you can hit with.

I'm sure the mathematicians and statisticians will be along shortly.


6 posted on 10/26/2005 1:48:18 AM PDT by nerdwithamachinegun (All generalizations are wrong.)
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To: jec1ny

"And there is no semi that has the stopping power of a .357 mag."

Ever heard of the .357 SIG?


7 posted on 10/26/2005 1:55:05 AM PDT by cannonball
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To: bramdawg

Pick whichever you can shoot the straightest, or feel most comfortable using. I don't think they're far enough apart to otherwise matter.


8 posted on 10/26/2005 1:57:09 AM PDT by Jaysun (Democrats: We must become more effective at fooling people.)
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To: bramdawg

Learn to shoot as well as you can and either caliber will serve you well, Fail to learn and neither will. Shot placement is what matters. If you have that mastered then it's a matter of which one feels best in your hand and points most naturally.


9 posted on 10/26/2005 1:59:28 AM PDT by muir_redwoods (Free Sirhan Sirhan, after all, the bastard who killed Mary Jo Kopechne is walking around free)
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Comment #10 Removed by Moderator

To: bramdawg
Follow up to my previous post (5). If your limited in your selection to either a 45 or a .40 you could really go either way. Comfort will dictate a lot and your ability to use the weapon effectively. I personally think the .45 is the on;y semi I have any real use for, but then again I am not on the job. There are arguments for both. The .45 probably would give you slightly better stopping power at the expense of magazine capacity and accuracy at longer range. The inverse is true for the.40 caliber. Other issues would include what kind of community are you going to be working in etc. I am not a fan of hand guns for gun fights. A shotgun is my first choice. As you can see I am a fan of stopping power. I tend to believe in using the most immediately effective (stopping power) weapon that your able to carry comfortably and handle effectively. Hence my preference for the .357 mag. But there are a host of issues that relate to your job that I don't have to deal with. But in simple terms thats my advice. Find out what weapons they will let you carry. Then figure out which ones you are able to carry comfortably and use with proficiency, and then if you have more than one choice opt for the one with the most stopping power.
11 posted on 10/26/2005 2:06:24 AM PDT by jec1ny (Adjutorium nostrum in nomine Domine Qui fecit caelum et terram.)
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To: bramdawg
In my experience a .40 tends to kick a bit more than a .45, possibly from a higher powder load. If I remember my rudimentary training correctly a .40 has a load of 1360-or so grains vs. 1140 for a .45. From my experience, they seem to do about the same amount of damage to a target but since I haven't shot any humans I don't know how well each would work on a man. :)

I'd say that you should go with whatever has the higher capacity; when you get into the size range of .40 and up I don't think that stopping power is really an issue. I just wouldn't want to die for lack of shooting back.

Good luck with your new job and keep safe.

12 posted on 10/26/2005 2:07:42 AM PDT by Zeroisanumber
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To: cannonball
"Ever heard of the .357 SIG?"

Yes I have. And I know at least one friend who loves it. But my (admittedly limited) experience with it did not leave me ultra impressed. I found it a bit unwieldy. Also I have read that it is more prone to mechanical issues than its revolver counterparts and does not have quite the same muzzle velocity and stopping power. I would certainly not disparage it as an effective weapon. But it would not be my 1st choice based on my limited exp and what I have read on it.
13 posted on 10/26/2005 2:11:08 AM PDT by jec1ny (Adjutorium nostrum in nomine Domine Qui fecit caelum et terram.)
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To: cannonball

on the note of the .357 sig... sig sauer 226.. I belive will do a beatiful double tap at 25 yards..


14 posted on 10/26/2005 2:11:40 AM PDT by Americanwolf (Support the Minutemen Civil Defense Corp...Doing the Job our government won't !)
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To: bramdawg; Darksheare
I want the best gun for my job.

If you want a gun, get a 12 ga.

Or were you considering a pistol?

If you're not just trolling this political forum and are asking a serious question, go here.

15 posted on 10/26/2005 2:15:30 AM PDT by glock rocks (A computer beat me at chess once. It lost at close range handguns.)
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To: glock rocks

What an awesome site! Thanx for that link.


16 posted on 10/26/2005 2:16:56 AM PDT by jec1ny (Adjutorium nostrum in nomine Domine Qui fecit caelum et terram.)
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To: bramdawg

Get whatever one holds the most bullets.


17 posted on 10/26/2005 2:21:41 AM PDT by irishtenor (At 270 pounds, I am twice the bike rider Lance is.)
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Comment #18 Removed by Moderator

To: bramdawg

Go with the 1911 .45 It has more knock down power But walls will stop it easier. Were the .40 will go through to hit who knows what. Everyone misses sometime.

The SW .40 was nothing more that the government showing how it take a 10mm cut it down, and waste a pile of money for something it did not need.

The .40 is nothing new. the Cowboys had them too. But people just don’t read there history. The US went from using the LC .45 to the .38 Went to the Philippines. found out the .38 didn’t do the job. Got the old Colt .45s out and developed the 1911

Fast F to the 80s All the PD & the military had to get new bad toys. And went out and got all those 9mm Which is basically the same as a .38 What did they find out. She just
don’t get the job done. But the government is never wrong. Right /s They couldn’t say we should have gone with the 1911 They needed to spend a whole lot of tax money for something new.
They first looked at the new bret 10mm But that was too much power. So it was cut down into the SW .40 When all they had to do was go with the good old .45 auto.

It’s sad that even after Golf I It was seen the 9mm was junk. and everyone asked to keep the 1911 They still use that 9mm crap.


19 posted on 10/26/2005 2:23:13 AM PDT by quietolong
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To: jec1ny
I know a lot of people will say you need the extra magazine capacity of a semi. But I disagree. If you can't hit your target with 6 rounds you have no business carrying a gun.

Also, with 18 or so rounds available and the ability to quickly reload there is the tendency to just lay a base of fire (spray and pray) and not actually try to hit the bad guy. Very bad for the neighborhood.
20 posted on 10/26/2005 2:27:53 AM PDT by R. Scott (Humanity i love you because when you're hard up you pawn your Intelligence to buy a drink.)
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To: quietolong
I agree the 9mm is a glorified .38 with a lot of bullets.
21 posted on 10/26/2005 2:27:58 AM PDT by jec1ny (Adjutorium nostrum in nomine Domine Qui fecit caelum et terram.)
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To: bramdawg

Gotta badge?


22 posted on 10/26/2005 2:28:15 AM PDT by Treader (Hillary's dark smile is reminiscent of Stalin's inhuman grin...)
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To: R. Scott
A good point that I omitted. The spray and pray method seems to be encouraged by high capacity semis.
23 posted on 10/26/2005 2:28:56 AM PDT by jec1ny (Adjutorium nostrum in nomine Domine Qui fecit caelum et terram.)
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To: jec1ny

It also seems to be the latest approved method for police officers.


24 posted on 10/26/2005 2:31:20 AM PDT by R. Scott (Humanity i love you because when you're hard up you pawn your Intelligence to buy a drink.)
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To: bramdawg

I would guess the department will suggest your side arm, but me, I would carry whatever the most popular .cal in the area is for a backup


if push comes to shove and I have to count on picking up ammo where I can find it, I want to use what is most likely to be found

IMO


25 posted on 10/26/2005 2:33:03 AM PDT by sure_fine (*not one to over kill the thought process*)
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Comment #26 Removed by Moderator

Comment #27 Removed by Moderator

To: bramdawg
Welcome to the Freep bramdawg.

Go with the S&W wheel gun in .357 caliber.

Or go back to DU.

Whatever.
28 posted on 10/26/2005 2:49:23 AM PDT by mmercier
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To: bramdawg
I've got to laugh at this post. Sorry.


Choice of caliber and type of weapon will be [should be] dictated by the department as set forth in their rules and regulations, which you are, as yet, apparently unfamiliar with.


You should have been instructed, or will be, that the probability of being over twenty feet from the subject in a gun fighting action is rare.


Whatever caliber you are issued, you must learn to hit the target at that distance. And for off duty, the gun you use will be pre-approved by the department.


Good luck in the academy, should you make it.



29 posted on 10/26/2005 3:23:16 AM PDT by G.Mason (Americas most based enemy is the Democrat Party)
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To: bramdawg

Having carried and shot them all. You well find out with the proper bullets ie good jacketed hollow points there is not much differants in stopping power.

With FMJ they all have a bad rep. Compare a good 9mm JHP to A FMJ 45 the 9mm wins.

You will find the 40 a good compromise in caliber size and mag cap.

I think you should read Handgun stopping power and Street Street stoppers by Marshall and Sanow. These 2 books give a very good over view of the subject.


30 posted on 10/26/2005 3:26:54 AM PDT by riverrunner
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To: bramdawg

Gotta Badge?


31 posted on 10/26/2005 3:39:21 AM PDT by Treader (Hillary's dark smile is reminiscent of Stalin's inhuman grin...)
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To: bramdawg

Not gonna reply- to anyone here, are ya? Now that a Mod is protecting you, feel free to indoctrinate at will.


32 posted on 10/26/2005 3:58:35 AM PDT by Treader (Hillary's dark smile is reminiscent of Stalin's inhuman grin...)
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To: jec1ny

***If I was on the job and given the choice,***

As "Skeeter" Skelton wrote in SHOOTING TIMES 30 years ago, if given a choice of ONE firearm he would choose a .357 mag with a 5 inch barrel.


33 posted on 10/26/2005 4:00:56 AM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar (When someone burns a cross on your lawn, the best firehose is an AK-47.)
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar

I know for a fact that a .40 Glock doesn't work on 1900 lb steers...


34 posted on 10/26/2005 4:07:26 AM PDT by chadwimc
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To: chadwimc

How's that & who the hell are you bs'n.? I've killed beef & swine with a little .22 cap pistol for 45 years. Geez, the city boy crap is getting deeper by the minute


35 posted on 10/26/2005 4:19:14 AM PDT by Treader (Hillary's dark smile is reminiscent of Stalin's inhuman grin...)
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To: bramdawg

"Real men say POINT*FIVE*OH"

/sarc

36 posted on 10/26/2005 4:19:59 AM PDT by xcamel (No more RINOS - Not Now, Not Ever Again.)
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To: xcamel

Kinda pretty, in a non- sarcasm way.


37 posted on 10/26/2005 4:24:26 AM PDT by Treader (Hillary's dark smile is reminiscent of Stalin's inhuman grin...)
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To: glock rocks
...If you're not just trolling this political forum and are asking a serious question, go here...

I think he's a troll. I haven't seen him respond to any replies yet.

Must be a DU game: start a thread on which is the best pistol caliber, pickup truck or NASCAR driver and place bets on how many replies you'll get.

38 posted on 10/26/2005 4:29:33 AM PDT by FReepaholic (Taglines? We don't need no stinking taglines.)
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To: bramdawg

A cop in Kalifornistan? For what do you need a weapon? I thought all your subjects were unarmed, at least intellectually. Which part of "shall not be infringed" do YOU not understand?

I carry one of three calibers, depending on how I'm dressed. A beautiful 9 mm Luger for formal occasions. My daily wear is a H&K USPc .40 Mexican style - screw the NRA wannabes. My macho occasional is a SA 1911 .45. The hall gun is an 870 with two rounds of big birdshot followed by two rounds of 00.


39 posted on 10/26/2005 4:37:40 AM PDT by dhuffman@awod.com (The conspiracy of ignorance masquerades as common sense.)
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To: bramdawg

This thread has a fever....and the prescription is for more cowbell!

40 posted on 10/26/2005 4:38:51 AM PDT by BulletBobCo
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To: bramdawg

This would be my choice.

41 posted on 10/26/2005 4:40:59 AM PDT by BulletBobCo
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To: muir_redwoods

Tou have the best tag line I have seen lately.


42 posted on 10/26/2005 4:42:50 AM PDT by Farmer Dean (Every time a toilet flushes,another liberal gets his brains.)
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To: BulletBobCo

Now, that... little cowbell inference, was almost as humourously pinto'd beaned-ed, as this fine thread.


43 posted on 10/26/2005 4:49:02 AM PDT by Treader (Hillary's dark smile is reminiscent of Stalin's inhuman grin...)
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To: tscislaw
Yep.


44 posted on 10/26/2005 4:54:26 AM PDT by glock rocks (A computer beat me at chess once. It lost at close range handguns.)
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To: bramdawg

Where ya at, bramdawg? Maybe the Mod knows your special facts and is just savin' your good rhetoric for us heathens.


45 posted on 10/26/2005 5:01:06 AM PDT by Treader (Hillary's dark smile is reminiscent of Stalin's inhuman grin...)
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To: glock rocks

Anyone who hasn't seen a billion ".XX vs .XX Shootout!" articles in the magazines probably isn't familiar enough with firearms to understand the replies.

Should'a told him to choose between .38 Super and 9mm Largo.


46 posted on 10/26/2005 5:04:20 AM PDT by Tijeras_Slim (Now that taglines are cool, I refuse to have one.)
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To: Lion Den Dan

I really like the feel of the .45 M1916A2 when firing pistols. It fits my hand really well. I have never fired a .40, but .45 was designed to take down drugged-out pirates.


47 posted on 10/26/2005 5:10:19 AM PDT by thebaron512
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To: bramdawg
Going onto a local PD in los angeles area

Honest question - I am not an American: What is a 'local' PD in the LA Area? How many PDs does LA have? And do any of them allow not only officers to choose thier own caliber, but allow .45 ACP? Not that I have anything against it, given the choice I would carry the .45, but I know it is very un-politically correct caliber, and a lot of PDs do not allow them just because of its association with the military.

I guess I am just a bit suspicious of this post.

48 posted on 10/26/2005 5:10:42 AM PDT by Northern Alliance
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To: bramdawg

Gotta badge?


49 posted on 10/26/2005 5:11:32 AM PDT by Treader (Hillary's dark smile is reminiscent of Stalin's inhuman grin...)
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To: bramdawg

I tend to agree with the person in post #5. 357 magnum shooting 125-130 grain JHPs - Federal preferably. Sure you can get higher calber guns with larger loads but in a personal defense situation they are difficult to control for accurate shot placement. In the 357 avoid 158 and 180 grain loads for the same reason and be sure to stick with JHPs


50 posted on 10/26/2005 5:15:04 AM PDT by Cicero5
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