Skip to comments.Expulsion For Gay Comments? Duquesne Student Resists Punishment
Posted on 10/27/2005 1:31:05 PM PDT by Coleus
Ryan Miner, 19, of Hagerstown, Md., was sanctioned by Duquesne after posting his view in The Facebook, an online directory that is not related to the university.
Miner opposed an effort by other students to form a Gay-Straight Alliance group, an issue that is still being debated by the university.
"I believe as a student that my First Amendment rights in the Constitution were subverted and attacked," said Miner.
After Miner's comments appeared online, some students complained to the school.
After a hearing, the Office of Judicial Affairs found Miner guilty of violating the University Code, which prohibits harassment or discrimination based on sexual orientation, among other groups.
A 10-page paper was assigned as punishment. Miner said he refuses to write it and will file an appeal.
2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered. They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstance can they be approved.
I don't get it
He'll lose, universities always win theese sorts of fights.
He could have had fun with the paper. I mean if you're getting the boot anyway.
This is ridiculous.... he could have called them much worse...not allowed here on FR
"Subhuman" was a poor choice of words. To say that the conduct is wrong or disordered is fine, but "subhuman" introduces all kinds of Nazi implications, or NARAL implications if you prefer. No class of human beings is subhuman, unless you use the term loosely, which is dangerous.
That said, he is surely within his first-amendment rights. No university, still less a Catholic university, should handle the matter this way.
Homosexuality, though personally abhorent to me (and to God) is NOT "subhuman".
No other animal species that I know of exhibits this type of deviant behavior, unless you count those Sweedish penguins - one of whom eventually went straight.
Since it's a private university, I don't see how the First Amendment applies, but on the other hand, I think that after you've spent 2 years of your academic career at a University, it's a bit below the belt for them to kick you out because they don't like something you said. If I were his lawyer, I'd be demanding a copy of the written policy that clearly spelled that out at the time he accepted admission, and in the absence of them being able to produce it, I would sue to get all of the costs of going to college for the last two years from them, as well as the value of the lost time.
Sub-human? It's sub-simian.
Catholic Colleges should not have or think of having
Gay-Straight Alliance groups.
On any campus in America, the free exercise of the first amendment and hearing both sides of the issue is paramount.
There was just a FR thread posted about a prof. saying that white people should be killed, noting happened to him, and that other idiot in Colorado about the USA deserved to be blown up on 9.11, he's still there.
On paper, the RCC (including all catholic colleges) is supposed to be "against" homosexuality and in favor of God's moral and natural law.
This student made his comments on a non-university web site.
Ref my previous post...
FIRE = Foundation for Individual Rights in Education...
Copy & Paste link...
I'm with you. Turn it into a contract dispute. Futhermore it might be relevant to show how the school is abusing the label of Catholic.
He should re-read the Constitution.
"He'll lose, universities always win theese sorts of fights."
Only because they have more resources for the legal fight.
With the right legal help he has a very good chance at winning. His activity he is being punished for was not related to or controlled by the university so their legal right to sanction him probably is probably non-existant.
Charles J. Dougherty, Ph.D.
Duquesne University President
600 Forbes Avenue
Pittsburgh, PA 15282
Phone: (412) 396-6000
Toll Free: (800) 456-0590
Actually many of them do.
I don't get it
This is about the forth time I've read this crap in a thread today. If you don't have something intelligent to add, then STFU!!!!!!!!
Name one male animal which inserts its organ into the anus of another male.
That's what I thought.
Don't make ridiculous and indefensible comments.
The school is violating equal protection by discrimating against him for his religion.
It can, and should be, stripped of all federal funding by fairly clear federal law.
They brought this upon themselves by considering a Gay-Straight Alliance group. They should have said NO immediately since it IS catholic and parents do send their children to Catholic Schools for a Catholic Education. He used a poor choice of words but should have had his say. And besides, he posted his comments on a non-school webpage.
Bingo! The cause of action here is breach of contract. Posting a general comment on a message board is not discrimination or harassment unless specifically directed at a specific person or persons. I also believe there would be a colorable defamation claim in there also.
Agreed. However, I do think his choice of "Subhuman" may have been rather undiplomatic. His freedom to speak is less expensive than the cost of his expression to the conservative and traditional way of life.
One can be very effective without resorting to the sharp utensils. It's all about perception.
He is in trouble because of an online, non-school, website? So I guess the school could kick him out for attending a Catholic or evangelical church.
Actually many of them do.
Proof? Excluding animals in captivity (zoos, domesticated pets and livestock).
Verified observation of continuing patterns of homosexual copulation in wild species in natural habitat - not misinterpreted displays of dominance. Never seen it and the gay lobby would be trumpeting it if existed.
Did not realize this was a Catholic school. They should have the right to decide who attends, and this fellow ought to be glad he's not going to be there.
Maybe it would have been better if he had stated that a person who engages in homosexual acts is sure to get a reservation at the Eternal Lake of Burning Hellfire Resort and Spa. I am sure it is listed on Expedia, Hotwire and Priceline.
All excellent reasons why they the university is acting badly, and why the student may have a case for breach of contract and/or libel. But none of it establishes or justifies a charge of Unconstitutional censorship of free speech.
Is that all there is to being homosexual? What if two males have other sexual contact besides the act you mentioned?
It is a sad day when a person of common decency cannot even express his feelings about sexual perversions. I suppose the school would rather that we all be a bunch of perverts.
No one needs that kind of an education!
Even the choice of language depends on the venue. If this had been in a classroom or a dorm room or some other place on campus, then the student might be charged with disruption. But if it is unrelated to them, by what right do they disciple him? That should be up to the webmaster.
Really, they engage in consensual copulation? Or are you just interpreting pseudo-sexual displays of dominance as homosexual behavior?
The study focuses on ten of the largest Catholic universities based on undergraduate enrollment. They include Boston College (employees reportedly gave $17,000 to Kerry and none to Bush), DePaul University (Kerry $7,950, Bush $250), Duquesne University (Kerry $1,350, Bush $200), Fordham University (Kerry $19,460, Bush $4,000), Loyola University of Chicago (Kerry $6,300, Bush $700), Marquette University (Kerry $1,200, Bush $1,200), St. Johns University of New York (Kerry $2,750, Bush $750), St. Louis University (Kerry $7,750, Bush $3,500) and the University of Notre Dame (Kerry $15,350, Bush $3,600).
William Presutti, associate dean of Duquesne Universitys Graduate School of Business ($250 to Kerry);
Marian Wright Edelman, president, Children's Defense Fund; CDF promotes school health clinics that emphasize contraceptive services and abortion; Duquesne University in Pittsburgh.
Agreed - which is why I have a major problem with the American wing of the Catholic Church. They have let liberal ideology trump their ecclesiastical foundation.
Yeah, if by nothing else then just grinding this guy down to the point where he quits -- the fight and the university. And all will be as before.
subhuman not right - but ...
etc - all correct
homosexuals cannot propagate their own species therefore they are a deviant, abnormal, substandard form of life.
For the leftist darwinian evolutionists that should be obvious.
Write a paper stating 'homos are sick' for ten pages. Single spaced!
Office of Judicial Affairs (Dubuque University) at this address (from that article)...
Dubuque has no place as a Catholic university organizing or hosting any such "Gay-Straight Alliance" group or otherwise interests, particularly and especially since the issue of homosexuality is defined as it is within Catholicism (and the Bible).
Also, the student's comments were written outside of the school's academic influence -- how the school is intruding into this person's actions given that important issue is beyond me (unless there was some sort of "academic dishonesty" involved as to the guy's character but I don't see from the article that there was, just that the school disagrees with the guy's choice of words).
"Sub-human" as expression seems like the age-appropriate language of someone trying to express civilized dismissal of entirely unacceptable behavior. The guy isn't a forty year old doctorate, he's an undergraduate young adult using words available to his level of knowledge...I don't find it as offensive as the school's alleging it is when considering the writer's age and academic level, nor given the non-academic venue on which the expression was made.
For what it's worth, all things considered, I agree that the fellow, the student, has been wronged and that the school is working entirely outside it's scope of responsibility, AND is otherwise also engaged in actions that do not represent a respect or acknowledgement for the Catholic Catechism.
While the Catechism does not declare homosexual acts to be "sub human," it DOES describe them (in more mature and accurate language) as "intrinsically disorded" and the kid seems to have just used a more casual vernacular to try to express that in his attempt to uphold the Catechism itself.
Dubuque should be chastised for it's attempts to punish and ridicule this guy.
The Vatican should censure Duquesne, demand it apologize to the student and ban Gay-Straight alliances and, should it fail to comply, strip them of their Catholic affiliation.
How can a Catholic school have an Abomination Club? That's what Catholicism says homo play is, an abomination.
Wikipedia is not a valid source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Introduction
Don't be afraid to edit pages on Wikipediaanyone can edit, and we encourage users to be bold...but don't be reckless! Find something that can be improved, either in content, grammar or formatting, then fix it. Worried about breaking Wikipedia? Don't be: it can always be fixed or improved later. So go ahead, edit an article and help make Wikipedia the best source of information on the Internet!
Wikipedia is an online encyclopedia that ANYONE can edit. Half the time they never even cite a source. The moderators there are leftist radical homo-activists.
Sorry, Try again.
Irrational perverted sexual behavior by animals isn't a yardstick to measure rational human behavior.
Here is another source. I haven't read the book but that is the main source that others cite for saying that some animals exibit homosexual behavior.
Wikipedia is not a reliable source. College kids write for Wikipedia. It's very slanted in favor of the current PC fashions, but certainly does not have the scholarship of a real encyclopedia.
I agree, animal behavior is not a yardstick to measure human behavior by, but to say that no other animals display homosexual behavior is just wrong.
You notice he uses "homosexuality," the behavior, instead of "homosexuals," the people. I'd say it's "subhuman," in the sense that it's against human dignity.