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Expulsion For Gay Comments? Duquesne Student Resists Punishment
WTAE via Drudge ^ | 10.27.05

Posted on 10/27/2005 1:31:05 PM PDT by Coleus

Expulsion For Gay Comments? Duquesne Student Resists Punishment

Catholic University Sanctions Student for Calling Homosexuality 'Subhuman'

A Duquesne University sophomore will risk being kicked out of school rather than write an essay as punishment for expressing his view that homosexuality is "subhuman."

Ryan Miner, 19, of Hagerstown, Md., was sanctioned by Duquesne after posting his view in The Facebook, an online directory that is not related to the university.

Miner opposed an effort by other students to form a Gay-Straight Alliance group, an issue that is still being debated by the university.

"I believe as a student that my First Amendment rights in the Constitution were subverted and attacked," said Miner.

After Miner's comments appeared online, some students complained to the school.

After a hearing, the Office of Judicial Affairs found Miner guilty of violating the University Code, which prohibits harassment or discrimination based on sexual orientation, among other groups.

A 10-page paper was assigned as punishment. Miner said he refuses to write it and will file an appeal.



TOPICS: Culture/Society; US: Pennsylvania
KEYWORDS: academia; academialist; catholiccolleges; catholicschools; catholicuniversities; cino; duquesne; duquesneu; duquesneuniversity; fagmafia; gaystapo; hero; homosexualagenda; martyr; pittsburgh
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Catechism

2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that “homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered. ” They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstance can they be approved.

Considerations Regarding Proposals To Give Legal Recognition To UNIONS
BETWEEN HOMOSEXUAL PERSONS


1 posted on 10/27/2005 1:31:05 PM PDT by Coleus
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To: Coleus

I don't get it


2 posted on 10/27/2005 1:32:01 PM PDT by HOTTIEBOY (Maybe in your house. Not in mine.)
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To: Coleus

He'll lose, universities always win theese sorts of fights.


3 posted on 10/27/2005 1:33:28 PM PDT by sittnick (There's no salvation in politics.)
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To: Coleus

He could have had fun with the paper. I mean if you're getting the boot anyway.


4 posted on 10/27/2005 1:34:32 PM PDT by NavVet (“Benedict Arnold was wounded in battle fighting for America, but no one remembers him for that.”)
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To: Coleus

This is ridiculous.... he could have called them much worse...not allowed here on FR


5 posted on 10/27/2005 1:36:05 PM PDT by CIDKauf (No man has a good enough memory to be a successful liar.)
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To: Coleus

"Subhuman" was a poor choice of words. To say that the conduct is wrong or disordered is fine, but "subhuman" introduces all kinds of Nazi implications, or NARAL implications if you prefer. No class of human beings is subhuman, unless you use the term loosely, which is dangerous.

That said, he is surely within his first-amendment rights. No university, still less a Catholic university, should handle the matter this way.


6 posted on 10/27/2005 1:36:57 PM PDT by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: Coleus

Homosexuality, though personally abhorent to me (and to God) is NOT "subhuman".

No other animal species that I know of exhibits this type of deviant behavior, unless you count those Sweedish penguins - one of whom eventually went straight.


7 posted on 10/27/2005 1:37:20 PM PDT by clee1 (We use 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 2 to pull a trigger. I'm lazy and I'm tired of smiling.)
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To: Coleus

Contact... FIRE


8 posted on 10/27/2005 1:37:43 PM PDT by Wings-n-Wind (The answers are out there; Wisdom is gained by asking the right questions)
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To: HOTTIEBOY

Since it's a private university, I don't see how the First Amendment applies, but on the other hand, I think that after you've spent 2 years of your academic career at a University, it's a bit below the belt for them to kick you out because they don't like something you said. If I were his lawyer, I'd be demanding a copy of the written policy that clearly spelled that out at the time he accepted admission, and in the absence of them being able to produce it, I would sue to get all of the costs of going to college for the last two years from them, as well as the value of the lost time.


9 posted on 10/27/2005 1:37:52 PM PDT by Brilliant
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To: Coleus

Sub-human? It's sub-simian.


10 posted on 10/27/2005 1:38:20 PM PDT by Keli Kilohana (Editor, ZARR CHASM CHRONICAL [sic], Sore, WV)
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To: HOTTIEBOY

Catholic Colleges should not have or think of having
Gay-Straight Alliance groups.

On any campus in America, the free exercise of the first amendment and hearing both sides of the issue is paramount.
There was just a FR thread posted about a prof. saying that white people should be killed, noting happened to him, and that other idiot in Colorado about the USA deserved to be blown up on 9.11, he's still there.

On paper, the RCC (including all catholic colleges) is supposed to be "against" homosexuality and in favor of God's moral and natural law.

This student made his comments on a non-university web site.


11 posted on 10/27/2005 1:39:22 PM PDT by Coleus (Roe v. Wade and Endangered Species Act both passed in 1973, Murder Babies/save trees, birds, algae)
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To: Wings-n-Wind

Ref my previous post...
FIRE = Foundation for Individual Rights in Education...

Copy & Paste link...
http://www.thefire.org/


12 posted on 10/27/2005 1:39:28 PM PDT by Wings-n-Wind (The answers are out there; Wisdom is gained by asking the right questions)
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To: Coleus
Duquesne is a Catholic University. Were it a public University, the student would have a case. But any private university has the right to arbitrarily decide who can and cannot be students. For the same reason the Boy Scouts have the ight to arbitrarily decide who can and cannot be members.
13 posted on 10/27/2005 1:40:25 PM PDT by sourcery (Givernment: The way the average voter spells "government.")
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To: Brilliant

I'm with you. Turn it into a contract dispute. Futhermore it might be relevant to show how the school is abusing the label of Catholic.


14 posted on 10/27/2005 1:41:54 PM PDT by RobbyS ( CHIRHO)
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To: sittnick
"I believe as a student that my First Amendment rights in the Constitution were subverted and attacked," said Miner.

He should re-read the Constitution.

15 posted on 10/27/2005 1:42:05 PM PDT by conserv13
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To: sittnick

"He'll lose, universities always win theese sorts of fights."

Only because they have more resources for the legal fight.

With the right legal help he has a very good chance at winning. His activity he is being punished for was not related to or controlled by the university so their legal right to sanction him probably is probably non-existant.


16 posted on 10/27/2005 1:42:34 PM PDT by Valpal1 (Crush jihadists, drive collaborators before you, hear the lamentations of their media. Allahu FUBAR!)
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Charles J. Dougherty, Ph.D.
Duquesne University President
president@duq.edu

Duquesne University
600 Forbes Avenue
Pittsburgh, PA 15282
Phone: (412) 396-6000
Toll Free: (800) 456-0590
http://www.administration.duq.edu/cabGen.html


17 posted on 10/27/2005 1:43:36 PM PDT by Coleus (Roe v. Wade and Endangered Species Act both passed in 1973, Murder Babies/save trees, birds, algae)
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To: clee1
No other animal species that I know of exhibits this type of deviant behavior

Actually many of them do.

18 posted on 10/27/2005 1:44:18 PM PDT by conserv13
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To: HOTTIEBOY

I don't get it

This is about the forth time I've read this crap in a thread today. If you don't have something intelligent to add, then STFU!!!!!!!!


19 posted on 10/27/2005 1:46:15 PM PDT by wolfcreek
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To: conserv13

Name one male animal which inserts its organ into the anus of another male.

That's what I thought.

Don't make ridiculous and indefensible comments.


20 posted on 10/27/2005 1:48:14 PM PDT by getitright (There's no peace in appeasement.)
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To: sittnick

The school is violating equal protection by discrimating against him for his religion.

It can, and should be, stripped of all federal funding by fairly clear federal law.


21 posted on 10/27/2005 1:48:40 PM PDT by MeanWestTexan (Many at FR would respond to Christ "Darn right, I'll cast the first stone!")
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To: sourcery

They brought this upon themselves by considering a Gay-Straight Alliance group. They should have said NO immediately since it IS catholic and parents do send their children to Catholic Schools for a Catholic Education. He used a poor choice of words but should have had his say. And besides, he posted his comments on a non-school webpage.


22 posted on 10/27/2005 1:48:49 PM PDT by Coleus (Roe v. Wade and Endangered Species Act both passed in 1973, Murder Babies/save trees, birds, algae)
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To: RobbyS
"Turn it into a contract dispute."

Bingo! The cause of action here is breach of contract. Posting a general comment on a message board is not discrimination or harassment unless specifically directed at a specific person or persons. I also believe there would be a colorable defamation claim in there also.

23 posted on 10/27/2005 1:49:17 PM PDT by joebuck
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To: sittnick

Agreed. However, I do think his choice of "Subhuman" may have been rather undiplomatic. His freedom to speak is less expensive than the cost of his expression to the conservative and traditional way of life.

One can be very effective without resorting to the sharp utensils. It's all about perception.


24 posted on 10/27/2005 1:50:37 PM PDT by SQUID
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To: clee1
"No other animal species that I know of exhibits this type of deviant behavior"

I am aware of 3 animal species dogs, monkeys and horses that have homosexual relations
25 posted on 10/27/2005 1:51:41 PM PDT by The Louiswu (The coward will not fight, the fool refuses to see necessity the scoundrel puts himself ahead of all)
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To: Coleus

He is in trouble because of an online, non-school, website? So I guess the school could kick him out for attending a Catholic or evangelical church.


26 posted on 10/27/2005 1:51:59 PM PDT by feedback doctor (Dan Rather - guilty until proved innocent)
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To: conserv13
No other animal species that I know of exhibits this type of deviant behavior

Actually many of them do.

Proof? Excluding animals in captivity (zoos, domesticated pets and livestock).

Verified observation of continuing patterns of homosexual copulation in wild species in natural habitat - not misinterpreted displays of dominance. Never seen it and the gay lobby would be trumpeting it if existed.

27 posted on 10/27/2005 1:52:49 PM PDT by Valpal1 (Crush jihadists, drive collaborators before you, hear the lamentations of their media. Allahu FUBAR!)
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To: feedback doctor

Did not realize this was a Catholic school. They should have the right to decide who attends, and this fellow ought to be glad he's not going to be there.


28 posted on 10/27/2005 1:53:53 PM PDT by feedback doctor (Dan Rather - guilty until proved innocent)
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To: Coleus

Maybe it would have been better if he had stated that a person who engages in homosexual acts is sure to get a reservation at the Eternal Lake of Burning Hellfire Resort and Spa. I am sure it is listed on Expedia, Hotwire and Priceline.


29 posted on 10/27/2005 1:54:09 PM PDT by WV Mountain Mama ("Good? Bad? I'm the one with the gun." Ash Williams, "Army of Darkness")
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To: Coleus
They brought this upon themselves by considering a Gay-Straight Alliance group. They should have said NO immediately since it IS catholic and parents do send their children to Catholic Schools for a Catholic Education. He used a poor choice of words but should have had his say. And besides, he posted his comments on a non-school webpage.

All excellent reasons why they the university is acting badly, and why the student may have a case for breach of contract and/or libel. But none of it establishes or justifies a charge of Unconstitutional censorship of free speech.

30 posted on 10/27/2005 1:55:21 PM PDT by sourcery (Givernment: The way the average voter spells "government.")
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To: getitright
Name one male animal which inserts its organ into the anus of another male

Is that all there is to being homosexual? What if two males have other sexual contact besides the act you mentioned?

31 posted on 10/27/2005 1:55:23 PM PDT by conserv13
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To: clee1

It is a sad day when a person of common decency cannot even express his feelings about sexual perversions. I suppose the school would rather that we all be a bunch of perverts.

No one needs that kind of an education!


32 posted on 10/27/2005 1:55:38 PM PDT by tessalu (t)
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To: Valpal1
Exactly, and thanks, FRiend.

Captivity is a major factor: look at the prison system - non-homos seeking same-sex partners while in jail, then reverting to strictly hetero behavior after release.

The sex drive is (arguably) the strongest drive an animal has. When denied opposite-sex partners, many will resort to deviant behavior.
33 posted on 10/27/2005 1:56:31 PM PDT by clee1 (We use 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 2 to pull a trigger. I'm lazy and I'm tired of smiling.)
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To: Valpal1

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_animals


34 posted on 10/27/2005 1:56:34 PM PDT by conserv13
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To: SQUID

Even the choice of language depends on the venue. If this had been in a classroom or a dorm room or some other place on campus, then the student might be charged with disruption. But if it is unrelated to them, by what right do they disciple him? That should be up to the webmaster.


35 posted on 10/27/2005 1:58:41 PM PDT by RobbyS ( CHIRHO)
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To: The Louiswu
I am aware of 3 animal species dogs, monkeys and horses that have homosexual relations

Really, they engage in consensual copulation? Or are you just interpreting pseudo-sexual displays of dominance as homosexual behavior?

36 posted on 10/27/2005 1:58:59 PM PDT by Valpal1 (Crush jihadists, drive collaborators before you, hear the lamentations of their media. Allahu FUBAR!)
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The study focuses on ten of the largest Catholic universities based on undergraduate enrollment. They include Boston College (employees reportedly gave $17,000 to Kerry and none to Bush), DePaul University (Kerry $7,950, Bush $250), Duquesne University (Kerry $1,350, Bush $200), Fordham University (Kerry $19,460, Bush $4,000), Loyola University of Chicago (Kerry $6,300, Bush $700), Marquette University (Kerry $1,200, Bush $1,200), St. John’s University of New York (Kerry $2,750, Bush $750), St. Louis University (Kerry $7,750, Bush $3,500) and the University of Notre Dame (Kerry $15,350, Bush $3,600).

William Presutti, associate dean of Duquesne University’s Graduate School of Business ($250 to Kerry);

Marian Wright Edelman, president, Children's Defense Fund; CDF promotes school health clinics that emphasize contraceptive services and abortion; Duquesne University in Pittsburgh.


37 posted on 10/27/2005 1:59:46 PM PDT by Coleus (Roe v. Wade and Endangered Species Act both passed in 1973, Murder Babies/save trees, birds, algae)
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To: tessalu

Agreed - which is why I have a major problem with the American wing of the Catholic Church. They have let liberal ideology trump their ecclesiastical foundation.


38 posted on 10/27/2005 1:59:50 PM PDT by clee1 (We use 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 2 to pull a trigger. I'm lazy and I'm tired of smiling.)
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To: sittnick
He'll lose, universities always win theese sorts of fights.

Yeah, if by nothing else then just grinding this guy down to the point where he quits -- the fight and the university. And all will be as before.

39 posted on 10/27/2005 2:00:50 PM PDT by yankeedame ("Oh, I can take it but I'd much rather dish it out.")
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To: Coleus

subhuman not right - but ...

Perverted
deviant
abnormal
substandard
falting
disordered
etc - all correct

homosexuals cannot propagate their own species therefore they are a deviant, abnormal, substandard form of life.

For the leftist darwinian evolutionists that should be obvious.


40 posted on 10/27/2005 2:01:37 PM PDT by soltice
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To: Coleus

Write a paper stating 'homos are sick' for ten pages. Single spaced!


41 posted on 10/27/2005 2:03:51 PM PDT by Rummyfan
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To: Coleus
Write and complain to:

Office of Judicial Affairs (Dubuque University) at this address (from that article)...

http://www.studentlife.duq.edu/depJA.html

Dubuque has no place as a Catholic university organizing or hosting any such "Gay-Straight Alliance" group or otherwise interests, particularly and especially since the issue of homosexuality is defined as it is within Catholicism (and the Bible).

Also, the student's comments were written outside of the school's academic influence -- how the school is intruding into this person's actions given that important issue is beyond me (unless there was some sort of "academic dishonesty" involved as to the guy's character but I don't see from the article that there was, just that the school disagrees with the guy's choice of words).

"Sub-human" as expression seems like the age-appropriate language of someone trying to express civilized dismissal of entirely unacceptable behavior. The guy isn't a forty year old doctorate, he's an undergraduate young adult using words available to his level of knowledge...I don't find it as offensive as the school's alleging it is when considering the writer's age and academic level, nor given the non-academic venue on which the expression was made.

For what it's worth, all things considered, I agree that the fellow, the student, has been wronged and that the school is working entirely outside it's scope of responsibility, AND is otherwise also engaged in actions that do not represent a respect or acknowledgement for the Catholic Catechism.

While the Catechism does not declare homosexual acts to be "sub human," it DOES describe them (in more mature and accurate language) as "intrinsically disorded" and the kid seems to have just used a more casual vernacular to try to express that in his attempt to uphold the Catechism itself.

Dubuque should be chastised for it's attempts to punish and ridicule this guy.

42 posted on 10/27/2005 2:05:11 PM PDT by BIRDS
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To: Coleus

The Vatican should censure Duquesne, demand it apologize to the student and ban Gay-Straight alliances and, should it fail to comply, strip them of their Catholic affiliation.
How can a Catholic school have an Abomination Club? That's what Catholicism says homo play is, an abomination.


43 posted on 10/27/2005 2:09:17 PM PDT by jjmcgo
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To: conserv13

Wikipedia is not a valid source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Introduction

Don't be afraid to edit pages on Wikipedia—anyone can edit, and we encourage users to be bold...but don't be reckless! Find something that can be improved, either in content, grammar or formatting, then fix it. Worried about breaking Wikipedia? Don't be: it can always be fixed or improved later. So go ahead, edit an article and help make Wikipedia the best source of information on the Internet!


44 posted on 10/27/2005 2:13:40 PM PDT by Valpal1 (Crush jihadists, drive collaborators before you, hear the lamentations of their media. Allahu FUBAR!)
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To: conserv13
.wikipedia

LMAO!

Wikipedia is an online encyclopedia that ANYONE can edit. Half the time they never even cite a source. The moderators there are leftist radical homo-activists.

Sorry, Try again.

Irrational perverted sexual behavior by animals isn't a yardstick to measure rational human behavior.

45 posted on 10/27/2005 2:24:39 PM PDT by DirtyHarryY2K (http://soapboxharry.blogspot.com/)
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To: Valpal1
Wikipedia is not a valid source

http://www.sciencedaily.com/cgi-bin/apf4/amazon_products_feed.cgi?Operation=ItemLookup&ItemId=031225377X

Here is another source. I haven't read the book but that is the main source that others cite for saying that some animals exibit homosexual behavior.

46 posted on 10/27/2005 2:26:17 PM PDT by conserv13
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To: conserv13

Wikipedia is not a reliable source. College kids write for Wikipedia. It's very slanted in favor of the current PC fashions, but certainly does not have the scholarship of a real encyclopedia.


47 posted on 10/27/2005 2:28:04 PM PDT by Albion Wilde (America will not run, and we will not forget our responsibilities. – George W. Bush)
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To: DirtyHarryY2K

I agree, animal behavior is not a yardstick to measure human behavior by, but to say that no other animals display homosexual behavior is just wrong.


48 posted on 10/27/2005 2:29:32 PM PDT by conserv13
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To: Cicero
To say that the conduct is wrong or disordered is fine, but "subhuman" introduces all kinds of Nazi implications, or NARAL implications if you prefer. No class of human beings is subhuman, unless you use the term loosely, which is dangerous.

You notice he uses "homosexuality," the behavior, instead of "homosexuals," the people. I'd say it's "subhuman," in the sense that it's against human dignity.

49 posted on 10/27/2005 2:30:25 PM PDT by Pyro7480 (Blessed Pius IX, pray for us!)
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To: Albion Wilde; Valpal1
http://www.swissinfo.org/sen/swissinfo.html?siteSect=511&sid=1841425

Another source

50 posted on 10/27/2005 2:31:28 PM PDT by conserv13
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