Posted on 10/29/2005 10:13:52 AM PDT by Travis McGee
Thoughts On Urban Survival (Post-Collapse Life in Argentina)
My brother visited Argentina a few weeks ago. He’s been living in Spain for a few years now. Within the first week, he go sick, some kind of strong flu, even though climate isn’t that cold and he took care of himself. Without a doubt he got sick because there are lots of new viruses in my country that can’t be found in 1st world countries. The misery and famine lead us to a situation where, even though you have food, shelter and health care, most of others don’t, and therefore they get sick and spread the diseases all over the region.
What got me started on this post is the fact that I actually saw this coming, and posted on the subject here at Frugal’s, months before the new viruses spread over the country and the news started talking about this new, health emergency, which proves that talking, thinking and sharing ideas with like minded people (you guys), does help to see things coming and prepare for them with enough time. So I started thinking about several issues, what I learned (either the hard way or thanks to this forum) after all these years of living in a collapsed country that is trying to get out an economical disaster and everything that comes along with it. Though my English is limited, I hope I’m able to transmit the main ideas and concepts, giving you a better image of what you may have to deal with some day, if the economy collapses in your country. Here is what I have so far:
URBAN OR COUNTRY?
Someone once asked me how did those that live in the country fare. If they were better off than city dwellers. As always there are no simple answers. Wish I could say country good, city bad, but I can’t, because if I have to be completely honest, and I intend to be so, there are some issues that have to be analyzed, especially security. Of course that those that live in the country and have some land and animals were better prepared food-wise. No need to have several acres full of crops. A few fruit trees, some animals, such as chickens, cows and rabbits, and a small orchard was enough to be light years ahead of those in the cities. Chickens, eggs and rabbits would provide the proteins, a cow or two for milk and cheese, some vegetables and fruit plants covered the vegetable diet, and some eggs or a rabbit could be traded for flower to make bread and pasta or sugar and salt.
Of course that there are exceptions, for example, some provinces up north have desert climate, and it almost never rains. It is almost impossible to live of the land, and animals require food and water you have to buy. Those guys had it bad; no wonder the northern provinces suffer the most in my country. Those that live in cities, well they have to manage as they can. Since food prices went up about 200%-300%. People would cut expenses wherever they could so they could buy food. Some ate whatever they could; they hunted birds or ate street dogs and cats, others starved. When it comes to food, cities suck in a crisis. It is usually the lack of food or the impossibility to acquire it that starts the rioting and looting when TSHTF.
When it comes to security things get even more complicated. Forget about shooting those that mean you harm from 300 yards away with your MBR. Leave that notion to armchair commandos and 12 year old kids that pretend to be grown ups on the internet.
Some facts:
1) Those that want to harm you/steal from you don’t come with a pirate flag waving over their heads.
2) Neither do they start shooting at you 200 yards away.
3) They won’t come riding loud bikes or dressed with their orange, convict just escaped from prison jump suits, so that you can identify them the better. Nor do they all wear chains around their necks and leather jackets. If I had a dollar for each time a person that got robbed told me “They looked like NORMAL people, dressed better than we are”, honestly, I would have enough money for a nice gun. There are exceptions, but don’t expect them to dress like in the movies.
4) A man with a wife and two or three kids can’t set up a watch. I don’t care if you are SEAL, SWAT or John Freaking Rambo, no 6th sense is going to tell you that there is a guy pointing a gun at your back when you are trying to fix the water pump that just broke, or carrying a big heavy bag of dried beans you bought that morning.
The best alarm system anyone can have in a farm are dogs. But dogs can get killed and poisoned. A friend of mine had all four dogs poisoned on his farm one night, they all died. After all these years I learned that even though the person that lives out in the country is safer when it comes to small time robberies, that same person is more exposed to extremely violent home robberies. Criminals know that they are isolated and their feeling of invulnerability is boosted. When they assault a country home or farm, they will usually stay there for hours or days torturing the owners. I heard it all: women and children getting raped, people tied to the beds and tortured with electricity, beatings, burned with acetylene torches. Big cities aren’t much safer for the survivalist that decides to stay in the city. He will have to face express kidnappings, robberies, and pretty much risking getting shot for what’s in his pockets or even his clothes.
So, where to go? The concrete jungle is dangerous and so is living away from it all, on your own. The solution is to stay away from the cities but in groups, either by living in a small town-community or sub division, or if you have friends or family that think as you do, form your own small community. Some may think that having neighbors within “shouting” distance means loosing your privacy and freedom, but it’s a price that you have to pay if you want to have someone to help you if you ever need it. To those that believe that they will never need help from anyone because they will always have their rifle at hand, checking the horizon with their scope every five minutes and a first aid kit on their back packs at all times…. Grow up.
Travis McGee Note: This is the beginning of one of the most amazing essays I have read in my life, written by an architect in Argentina, who has lived through an economic and social collapse for the last five years. I consider it one of the most important things that you will read in this or any year. If you're a sheeple, don't bother. But if you see (as I do) storm clouds on America's horizon, do yourself a BIG favor and read it, and pass it to your friends, family, and loved ones.
Thoughts On Urban Survival (Post-Collapse Life in Argentina)
I read this on TB2K a few days ago. Thanks for posting it on FR; you are right, it is a must read!
Please go to the link and read the complete essay.
Better yet, print it out for future reference, and pass it on to anyone you care about.
What is TB2K, a survival site? If they linked this essay, it must be good.
Sorry for any double pings, this is too important to miss.
TB2K == Timebomb 2000
They are mainly a prepper site (The full name should have given that away, LOL). You will find an interesting mix of political philosophies there. There's some pretty good information there, and some good member-written stories. I think there is a lot of crossover membership between TB2K and Frugal's.
http://www.timebomb2000.com/
reference bump
I'd like to read it, but bugmenot letmedown.
I'll make sure everyone I know gets a copy of this essay.
bookmark
Thanks for the ping.
Neat-looking site from the outside, but they want a lot of information to register.
It needs a login just to read? Crud. Sorry. I've been registered at Frugal Squirrels for so long, I didn't even consider that possibility. Sorry. All I can say is if it just retuires a quick registration to read it, IT'S WORTH IT. Not just for this essay either, the entire site is a gold mine for those who see hard times (or worse) ahead in the USA.
The clip you posted seems realistic enough. A rural community like the frontier villages during Colonial days would be a fairly good model. There will be a land rush for these situations, so it would be well to scout out locations ahead of need. Also, identify any who are like-minded now because it will be difficult during the dislocation.
bump
bttt
Thanks Travis for posting this. Just read the thread on animals and agriculture TB2K--all animals to be registered by 2008 even if used for home consumption. I don't think this is a joke. bought new chicks in August this year, and for the first time in 47 years, I had to register them with the state of TX. Name, address, phone AND driver's liscense!!! something is really up!
- bump -
What I excerpted is only about 10% of the article. It's worth registering to read it all, honestly.
Good article.
Good advice. Thanks!
( The rest of Y'all better read it, too, ya heah? )
Man...I couldn't agree more. This is easily one of the most important posts I've ever seen on FR, especially if this is the direction America is headed, as many believe. Even if you think you know it all when it comes to this scenario, you will still learn things that you may have never even considered, from a man that is actually living it. Thanks, Travis...spread the word! (Worth registering? That's an understatement!)
Well it was total financial collapse that was the proximate cause for the situation in Argentina. Politics as something, but not everything, to do with economics. A lot of seeds have been sown already in the USA. Dollars, once printed are out there. Debt, once issues is out there. Manufacturing, once lost, is not easily re-established. It may be that regardless of whether (the increasingly similar) Donkey or Elephant party is in power that the seeds sown will result in the proverbial bitter harvest. Soon.
I can not find the article in the website, where is it found?
That happened to me the first time...couldn't find it. Logged back out, and clicked on the link at the beginning of this thread once again. Took me straight to it.
sheesh, pretty scary stuff!
Sending a Halloween nightmare your way.
Really sad. What was once the sixth wealthiest country per head in the 1920s, attracting immigrants from all over, has let itself go to hell. The only thing that seems to be growing in BA these days is gay tourism.
Interesting bump.
Bump for reference, but won't have the money to pay internet fee to come back and read it.
This is the strongest argument for some sort of universal medical coverage.
I suppose if a major epidemic was revealed today that I'd go with what I like to call cacooning. Eating at home only, no resturants, lots of handwashing at work, avoiding having to shop or going to the doctor etc etc ....... soap goes a long way to keeping folks healthy IMHO. A pantry and freezer full of grub is my plan.....
ping for later!
Fantastic. I enjoyed it very much. I even registered on the site. :-)
the short-term solution, in the event of national collapse, is certainly clans and tribes (which is the short-version of what the author advocates)
large enough to control and work a sufficient amount of land
large enough to include a wide skill set
large enough to deter raiders
small enough to keep health needs and consequences down
the value an individual has in a tribe depends entirely on the real and practical resources he brings to the tribe.
Those with no skills or resources will have little or no value to a tribe, and under the conditions of a complete social collapse it is unlikely the tribe will have either motive or capacity to support dead weight.
It would thus behoove every individual to spend their leisure time learning new skills, building a network of *useful* friends, and doing a little prep... just in case circumstances force a change in career.
Forgot I was already registered at that site.....awesome read.
I still carry my rifle to and from though.....:o)
That Doc friend of his was billy bad ass if he took on six in an ambush, killed 4, wounded one before they got him with his Glock 40.......wow !
I'll go back and finish the article....Thanks for the info ! I'll pass on the info for sure !
I agree. The "two" parties have become one. That's why I'm a strong advocate for the emergence of a strong third party made up of "the rest of us" who don't want our country turned into a third world dump.
The "two" parties have done nothing to stop this, and most of them are following the money and the power trip no matter the consequences to America.
PING!
You need a loan?
The idea of an economic collapse has always bothered me, first began to think of it during the Carter years.
I had a professor who I still keep in touch with who is pretty much of a survivalist. He was in Army intelligence for years and spent a lot of time in South America, especially Guyana and Brazil, back in the 60's. He has a farm and bunker for his family. He tells me his wife thinks he is a nut, maybe so. I do know he has large stores of guns ammo supplies etc.
In one generation we have gone from a basically self sufficient nation to one in which if there is a technological breakdown we will be in deep trouble. I remember when hurricanes knocked out our power, how totally dependent we are on it.
Then I remember my parents raising five children on a farm with no electricity until the late 50's. How in the world did they survive? My Mother made nearly everything from soap to sausage.
I guess if forced to, most of us would eventually adapt, tho many would perish or try to live by theft.
onc
request to be added to this ping list
Read it, thank you.
Great post, Travis.
The Bush administration is promoting third worldism by
encouraging Mexicans to jump the border. He is promising them amnesty, and they are coming in droves!
Is that new livestock registration only needed in Texas, or everywhere?
I've just put the entire essay plus his replies to questions into a word document, plus I edited his Spanish - English glitches to make it a smoother read. If anybody wants it, freepmail me and I'll send the word document to any email address you want.
Yep, I think it's the most important thing I've read in at least a year.
I spent some time in BA, Neuquen and down in the Patagonia area back in the mid '90's.
I had no clue that things had gone so far south there.
Everytime I started to argue a point in my mind it was later addressed and I am glad that I didn't.
Excellent read!
Right now I'm listening to cutting tools operated by Mexican workers sent by Home Depot to put brick in the back yard next door. I haven't heard a word of English yet. Very common thing in California.
The President's lie that they're "only here to take jobs Americans won't do" is the LIE OF THE CENTURY!
I called Home Depot to let them know that I won't be doing business with them anymore. I called the local police who reminded me that there is nothing they can do about it (L.A. is a sanctuary city where illegal aliens are kings).
Invasion/colonization by Mexico is upon us, perpetrated by our greedy "leaders". Third world status, here we come, unless we start screaming at the top of our lungs and throw the bums out.
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