Joe Wilson In A Bind

American Spectator ^ | 10-31-05 | Clinton W. Taylor

[liberallarry]

That's not saying much, by your own accounting.

Sadly true. Governments must act on bad intelligence.

the problem with this debate is that we subject this evidence to the same requirements we do in our courts. I don't think we have that luxury in a situation like this

Absolutely true. But partisanship is so strong that people often lose sight of external enemies in their desire to punish their neighbors. Washington despaired of this human characteristic...and things haven't improved.

The rest of what you say may be true too. Future historians will decide.

[liberallarry]

No reasoning in the article, just assertions. Tenet apparently assured Bush that finding WMD in Iraq was a "slam dunk".

[liberallarry]

Wilson never said that Cheney personally sent him. That's an oft-repeated distortion. He said he was sent to try and answer questions posed by Cheney's office.

By the way, Fitzgerald's investigation revealed that Cheney knew about Wilson far earlier than he's claimed...although I continue to believe that Cheney played no part in selecting Wilson and never saw or heard of his report until much after it was submitted.

[Eagles Talon IV]

It was Wilson who made the assertions and the Committee and the CIA who debunked what Wilson had to say.

It seems you are trying to defend Wilson and yet you can show nothing to back up what he claims to have found out in Niger (no attempt from Iraq to purchase yellow cake) or the fact he claims his wife had nothing to do with his going to Niger.

[smoothsailing]

Understood. I was doing some venting myself.

[Eagles Talon IV]

Comment on a CNN article found here will show you how the left and Wilson sought to claim the President lied about something that in fact was never talked about as Wilson claimed it had. In other words Wilson was claiming Bush lied about Iraq purchasing uranium from Niger when Bush never said they did.

No one except far left extremists any longer believe Wilson is anything more then a self aggrandizing partisan whose only goal is self promotion and the destruction of this Administration. When he is confronted by all his inconsistencies and the fact that the bi partisan commission caught him in so many lies, his only answer is "they are wrong"

Let's remember that this guy also claimed that the Bush Admin used forged documents to form its decision on the yellow cake deal. The problem is that these documents were not discovered until 8 months AFTER Bush made his speech and AFTER Wilson testified before the Committee. When called on how he could know about documents that didn't exist at the time he claimed they were used, his only response was "I mis spoke" This is not a error, this is an outright lie. There is simply no way he could have known about these documents unless he was somehow involved in their creation or dispersal. You seem to have not read the committee report. I suggest you do so.

http://www.seixon.com/blog/archives/2005/10/joseph_strawman.html

As for Cheney. Cheney never said he "knew" Wilson. He said he knew about him, had heard of him but had never met him. There is quite a difference between knowing someone and knowing about someone. I know about President Bush but I certainly don;t know him.

[smoothsailing]

Well said.

[liberallarry]

I don't think I can add anything more to what I've already said.

[NonLinear]

From : CNN Inside Politics

( .... VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERT NOVAK, CO-HOST: According to a confidential source at the CIA, Mrs. Wilson was an analyst, not a spy, not a covert operative, and not in charge of undercover operatives. So what is the fuss about, pure Bush-bashing?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZAHN: You want to answer that question? Is this Bush-bashing on your part?

WILSON: Let me make a couple of points about that.

First of all, Novak also said that I was a Clinton appointee. In actual fact, my first political appointee was as ambassador. And I was appointed by George H.W. Bush, the first President Bush. So I really am apolitical in all of this.

Secondly, somebody with Novak's self-described 46 years experience will know the difference between operative and analyst. And his report clearly says -- his article says operative.

ZAHN: So what does that mean?

WILSON: That means that I think that he knew and he was told that she was a CIA operative, which means that they come under the branch of the CIA that deals with clandestine operations.

Highlighted portions:
1. Regardless of who appointed him over 12 year prior to the current interview, Wilson was on Kerry's election team. He is activly working to replace Bush with Kerry at the time. Not just planning to vote for someone else, but actively working toward that opponent's election. Hardly apolitical.

2. Wilson, when asked directly, never says his wife is covert. He implies that we should infer from Novak's experience level, and from her branch that she was covert. He calls her an operative, then defines that as a member of the Directorate of Operations only, not as being covert.

[popdonnelly]

His wife was in no position to initiate anything. But for purposes of this controversy, she did recommend him for the trip. Cheney was allegedly told by a high-ranking CIA official that Wilson's wife recommended him for the trip. And at least that appears to be true.

[popdonnelly]

The CIA had reports from the Ambassador to Niger (the woman with the hyphenated name) and General Carlton Fulford, who they sent for the same reason they sent Wilson. They probably had reports from spies and covert contacts as well.

Neither the Ambassador nor General Fulford work for the CIA. One would hope the CIA had spies and covert contacts working for them, but one can't be sure. In any event, sending Wilson doesn't seem likely to gather anything useful. Rather, it seems likely to tip off most of the people in the Niger government that there's an investigation going on. Not very clever spook work.

[popdonnelly]

Latest is that the French wanted Martino to push the forged documents. They could later be exposed as forgeries, and the Niger/uranium story could be shot down. This would benefit France in that it would undermine the argument for going to war in Iraq, and France did have those oil leases. Also, it would insulate the French company that plays a major part in mining uranium in Niger.

[Wurlitzer]

TO ALL: The more I hear or read about the CIA the more I am convinced that they represent just as much a threat to the USA as any other known enemy. From the decades of cover ups, denials, leaks, destroyed document, etc. this is a department which needs a good house cleaning or out right elimination.

I am convinced that the CIA is jam packed with dumbocraps at best and communists at worse.

FOIA does not seem to apply to the CIA as they can always claim some pencil neck geek might be placed in danger. They have screwed up intelligence gathering to a new level.

Purge these bastards and start over.

[Sacajaweau]

Knowing "of" someone and knowing someone is two very different things.

(From memory) I think Cheney said: "Who the hell is Joe Wilson? I don't even know him."

I would have to say there was never any personal contact between Cheney and Wilson. Every one of us can say we "know of" Wilson, but none of us know him on a business or pleasure basis. And if someone was saying things behind my back, I'd say exactly what Cheney said.

[Sioux-san]

Even you, a self-proclaimed Lib, should be able to smell a rat. No CIA confidentiality agreement for the expert Mr. Wilson. Just come home and write all about your trip to Niger in the New York Times. Lie till your nose falls off, Mr. Wilson. Come on. Are you for real? Hate Bush all you want, but don't you care about anything else?

[Zhangliqun]

For a good analysis of this farce and other news about the CIA's role in the Iraq war, read the column today in Frontpagemag.com by Steven Hayes.

I couldn't find the article. Can you link us?

[Zhangliqun]

...in my view Joe Wilson has been right about everything except the most important thing - what it takes to defend this country.

Help me out here -- what has he been right about? The guy lied about everything except who was President and what planet this is.

[smoothsailing]

LOL! Jihad Joey probably just got lucky in knowing what planet he was on.

[Zhangliqun]

"If the CIA was seriously trying to protect Plame's identity, they should never have selected Wilson for the Niger assignment."

True only with hindsight.

And foresight.

"...much less allowed him to speak to the press about it in a highly politicized manner."

They didn't have the legal authority to stop him.

They knew in advance that they didn't have the legal authority to stop him. That's not hindsight.

They also, being an intelligence agency with secrets to keep and all, must have taken the time to find out a few things about the personality of the husband of one of their employees and ex-field agents, namely that he was a self-infatuated blowhard who regularly referred to her as "my wife, the spy". Therefore they must have known, assuming they still considered Plame a covert field agent, that there was too much of a risk that he and his big mouth might draw a lot of attention to himself and therefore collaterally to his wife, whether it was this Niger-gate or some other situation down the line.

His wife must have also known this and did not consider herself to be taking any significant risk not only by recommending Mr. Big Mouth for the job, but by attaching herself to this man to begin with and then staying with him as he kept blabbing her identity to everyone within earshot. That's not hindsight. If it is, the CIA is even more jacked up and devoid of common sense than we thought!

The only possible conclusions from there are that: a) both Plame and the CIA didn't think there was much of a downside if Plame was outed. b) in taking Plame's recommendation of him for the gig, they were counting on Wilson to indirectly 'out' her.

Either way, it could only be because they didn't consider her to be anything like a covert field agent anymore, meaning they believed she had ALREADY been outed by Aldrich Ames.