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Pistol-packers challenge police (NH)
The Union Leader (NH) ^ | October 30, 2005 | ROGER TALBOT

Posted on 10/31/2005 9:43:58 AM PST by neverdem

Police took Michael V. Pelletier’s loaded pistol while he browsed in a bookstore; David K. Ridley’s mistake was to change jackets in a mall parking lot, and Penny S. Dean’s encounter happened during a late-night constitutional on a city street.

Because the New Hampshire Constitution guarantees the right to bear arms — no license needed, unless the weapon is concealed — all three got their guns back within minutes, but the confrontations caused them unease.

“The bottom line is that this type of thing shouldn’t be happening in a state where (carrying a pistol) is perfectly allowed,” said Dean, a lawyer and consulting counsel to Gun Owners of New Hampshire, the gun-rights advocacy organization.

Dean, in a routine followed often in the 10 years she has lived on Warren Street in Concord, was taking a late-night walk on June 16. She was on Pleasant Street out by St. Paul School when state trooper Abbott Presby stopped his cruiser.

“He must have asked me six times for a driver’s license. Then he proceeded to ask what I was doing there and I kept asking him, ‘Are you detaining me?’” Dean said.

She didn’t have her driver’s license. She had a cellular phone, a credit card, her license to carry a concealed pistol and her Glock 23 in a nylon, neon-pink fanny pack.

Dean wrote a letter to state police Col. Frederick H. Booth citing her constitutional rights and complaining of her “detention” by Presby.

“Had I not vigorously, repeatedly and firmly asserted that I wanted to (be) released from this detention I could have been illegally held there indefinitely. I firmly believe that it was only after I explained to trooper Presby that I was an attorney that the impetus to release me awakened,” Dean wrote.

Three months later, state police Lt. Mark J. Myrdek responded, writing that a review of the incident had found Presby’s “actions and conduct were justified, lawful and proper.”

On March 27, 2004, at about 9:15 p.m., three police officers in uniform and two detectives in plain clothes converged on Michael Pelletier as he thumbed through a book at Barnes & Noble store in Manchester. Pelletier and his wife had marked their 11th anniversary with dinner, then gone to the bookstore, where his coat stayed in the car. He had forgotten the change in attire left visible the holstered Glock 30 pistol tucked into his belt at his back.

A shopper telephoned police.

Pelletier said the officers “basically grabbed me by the shoulder, disarmed me and took me out of the store. They ran my license and registration and the serial number on the gun and stood around lecturing me for 20 minutes. It was irritating, but at least I wasn’t arrested.

“What boggled my mind was that out of at least seven officers and dispatchers involved not one seemed to know that open carry is legal in New Hampshire and they basically treated this like they would a felony stop. . . . I wasn’t doing anything illegal. I was minding my own business and I think they could muster the ability to treat me with courtesy and respect in that situation,” said Pelletier, who lives in Merrimack and is a West Coast transplant drawn here by the Free State Project’s pick of New Hampshire in 2003 as the place to promote its minimal-government agenda.

Alan M. Rice of Brookline, the treasurer of the New Hampshire Firearms Coalition, has been dealing with gun use safety for 10 years. He is certified as an “instructor-trainer,” qualified to teach even the firearms instructors.

Commenting on what Pelletier has written on the Internet about his bookstore experience, Rice said, “I think he exercised extraordinarily poor judgment on that particular night (because) he had an open-top holster in the small of his back in an unconcealed fashion. . . .

“Most professionals do not carry a gun there because it’s hard to access the weapon and hard to retain the weapon if someone wants to take it away from you.”

Rice prefers holsters with retention features that thwart efforts to extract the handgun, and he advises students to place the belt holster at their right or left side, where it is protected by the arm.

As a firearms instructor, Rice views concealed-carry as “a good way to deter crime because they don’t know who is carrying.”

Though it is legal to carry a gun in plain view, “open-carry is not a bright idea,” Rice said. “You are a target. If someone comes in with criminal intent, the first thing he is going to do is neutralize any person with a weapon who can hurt him.”

Like Pelletier, David Ridley’s move to New Hampshire was inspired by the Free State Project. He came from Texas, which he described as having restrictive gun licensing laws.

“When you come to a place where the right is recognized by government and you’ve never had it before, it’s a right you want to celebrate. At the same time, if you don’t exercise the right, I think you will eventually lose it. So for me, open-carry is primarily a political thing,” said Ridley, who lives in Keene.

Ridley had changed jackets and was engrossed in lettering a placard on the hood of his car in a supermarket parking lot in Salem on March 21 when five police officers, responding to a citizen’s call, asked about the holstered Glock 19 on his hip.

“They said, ‘You alarmed a person who saw the gun.’

“When that is the situation, they have to respond to the call. I understand that, but what was wrong was when they started talking about arresting me when I hadn’t done anything illegal,” Ridley said.

In responding to a letter from Ridley, Salem Police Chief Paul T. Donovan wrote that his officers would continue to respond “with an open mind” when a complaint comes in about someone carrying a firearm.

“In this day and age where people have committed some very violent attacks using firearms, it is understandable that people who do not understand the values of law-abiding firearms owners run scared. We need to work at improving our image with those who don’t understand,” Donovan wrote.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Editorial; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; US: New Hampshire
KEYWORDS: banglist; donutwatch; freestateproject; fsp; porcupines; rkba
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1 posted on 10/31/2005 9:43:59 AM PST by neverdem
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To: archy

Porcuping!


2 posted on 10/31/2005 9:44:47 AM PST by neverdem (May you be in heaven a half hour before the devil knows that you're dead.)
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To: neverdem
She didn’t have her driver’s license. She had a cellular phone, a credit card, her license to carry a concealed pistol and her Glock 23 in a nylon, neon-pink fanny pack.

Later, however, the fashion police cited her for a violation...

3 posted on 10/31/2005 9:45:57 AM PST by 2banana (My common ground with terrorists - They want to die for Islam, and we want to kill them.)
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To: neverdem
I seriously want to discover the person who first siad that "Ignorance is Bliss"

IOW, the Officers DIDN'T KNOW the State Constitution permitted law-abiding citizens to OPENLY-carry weapons--including firearms--on their person

4 posted on 10/31/2005 9:48:28 AM PST by ExcursionGuy84 ("Jesus, Your Love takes my breath away.")
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To: 2banana

She has hot pink business cards too, and I got her an assortment of hot pink binder clips a couple months back. It's sort of her trademark. :D


5 posted on 10/31/2005 9:48:53 AM PST by mvpel (Michael Pelletier)
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To: mvpel
If she sold Mary Kay instead of wasting her time practicing law, perhaps one day she could drive a pink Cadillac.
6 posted on 10/31/2005 9:54:37 AM PST by PAR35
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To: neverdem
"“In this day and age where people have committed some very violent attacks using firearms, it is understandable that people who do not understand the values of law-abiding firearms owners run scared. We need to work at improving our image with those who don’t understand,” Donovan wrote.
"

No, what's needed is police retraining in the law and taught to mind their own business. A police state is not what is needed. More fun would be if every citizens that has a handgun, sets up a day for all citizens to carry. Would drive the police nuts.
7 posted on 10/31/2005 9:55:35 AM PST by Logical me (Oh, well!!!)
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To: neverdem

"He came from Texas, which he described as having restrictive gun licensing laws."

A one page background form that takes five minutes to complete and a five minute wait (if that long) for telephone confirmation is restrictive?

With all of my rifles, I completed the form, had my background verified, paid for my firearms and walked out the store with said rifles in 15 minutes.


8 posted on 10/31/2005 9:59:00 AM PST by Army Air Corps (Four fried chickens and a coke)
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To: mvpel

DAMN! Or should I have written "duh"?

Did the Union-Leader give you a heads up on running this story?


9 posted on 10/31/2005 10:00:30 AM PST by neverdem (May you be in heaven a half hour before the devil knows that you're dead.)
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To: neverdem
...unless the weapon is concealed

So what is NH's legal definition of "concealed"?

10 posted on 10/31/2005 10:02:34 AM PST by theDentist (The Dems have put all their eggs in one basket-case: Howard "Belltower" Dean.)
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To: theDentist

I don't know. I don't live there.


11 posted on 10/31/2005 10:04:21 AM PST by neverdem (May you be in heaven a half hour before the devil knows that you're dead.)
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To: Logical me

the problem appears to be NH's location next to MA.

All the pathetic sheep-people that came across the border have completely ruined NH.

In fact, I will takes bets on the geographic origin of the citizen sleuths who called the cops.


12 posted on 10/31/2005 10:06:00 AM PST by MeanWestTexan (Many at FR would respond to Christ "Darn right, I'll cast the first stone!")
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To: neverdem

I think some "citizens" better start getting used to seeing guns. I carry concealed, mostly because I don't want anyone to know I've got a gun. But sometimes you can "flash" a gun and not be aware of it ... wind blows back a jacket, etc. "Citizens" have got to get educated that there are a bunch of us out here actually "protecting THEM" and not call the cops every time they see a gun. At the supermarket the other day, I was reaching to a lower shelf to get something and "flashed" my 1911. A fellow nearby asked (and very quietly) a minute later ... "Do you have a permit for the gun?" I responded with "Yes sir, I do, and here it is" and I showed it to him. He simply said "thank you ... I should probably carry mine more often!"


13 posted on 10/31/2005 10:06:34 AM PST by DHC-2
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To: neverdem
Though it is legal to carry a gun in plain view, “open-carry is not a bright idea,” Rice said. “You are a target. If someone comes in with criminal intent, the first thing he is going to do is neutralize any person with a weapon who can hurt him.”

Yeah, I'm sure that most criminals look for someone carrying a gun or knife or club as their first choice for a vicitm.

14 posted on 10/31/2005 10:06:34 AM PST by Eagle Eye (There ought to be a law against excess legislation.)
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To: ExcursionGuy84

I've had this happen to me, in GA; an open carry allowed state.

I am a reserve police office and a holder of a CCW. I went into a Kroger store without my jacket on, with a .380 in the small of my back, open holster. As I was leaving, two city PD officers made a felony stop of me, throwing me against the wall of the building. I suffered contusions and several small scrapes on the face, hands, and arms.

After IDing myself, I was released.

I promptly went to the city PD and swore out a complaint against the officers involved and threatened a civil rights lawsuit against the city, the department, and the two officers. As a result, the entire city PD had to go through retraining regarding the firearms laws of Georgia.

I make it a POINT now to carry openly when I can do so effectively.


15 posted on 10/31/2005 10:09:01 AM PST by clee1 (We use 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 2 to pull a trigger. I'm lazy and I'm tired of smiling.)
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To: Logical me

See post # 15


16 posted on 10/31/2005 10:10:39 AM PST by clee1 (We use 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 2 to pull a trigger. I'm lazy and I'm tired of smiling.)
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To: neverdem
"Commenting on what Pelletier has written on the Internet about his bookstore experience, Rice said, “I think he exercised extraordinarily poor judgment on that particular night (because) he had an open-top holster in the small of his back in an unconcealed fashion. . . ."

So this alleged "firearms instructor" (not lawyer) seems to think that the law should depend on the type holster you're using?
And whether or not he personally approves of it?

17 posted on 10/31/2005 10:13:27 AM PST by Redbob
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To: MeanWestTexan
"All the pathetic sheep-people that came across the border have completely ruined NH."

And the bastards are breeding.

18 posted on 10/31/2005 10:16:28 AM PST by verity (Don't let your children grow up to be mainstream media maggots.)
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To: neverdem
Okay.. something here is causing a disconnect and I'm having a hard time with it.. *cough*

" New Hampshire Constitution guarantees the right to bear arms — no license needed, unless the weapon is concealed" beginning of the article says that.

Then we get down to the bookstore bit:

"Commenting on what Pelletier has written on the Internet about his bookstore experience, Rice said, “I think he exercised extraordinarily poor judgment on that particular night (because) he had an open-top holster in the small of his back in an unconcealed fashion. . . . "

New Hampshire constitution says open carry is okay... right?
If it wasn't concealed, what is the problem?
19 posted on 10/31/2005 10:18:58 AM PST by Darksheare (I'm not suspicious & I hope it's nutritious but I think this sandwich is made of mime.)
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To: Army Air Corps
"With all of my rifles, I completed the form, had my background verified, paid for my firearms and walked out the store with said rifles in 15 minutes."

But you weren't applying for a permit to carry your rifles concealed, were you?

And normally, when someone refers to firearms "licensing," they're talking about carry permits, not purchasing, which of course does not require any form of "licensing."

Texas is in fact among the more restrictive of the "shall-issue" states, and just a few years ago , was not a "shall-issue" state at all.
Prior to the George Bush governorship, it was practically impossible to get a concealed carry permit here.
Now it is merely difficult and expensive.

20 posted on 10/31/2005 10:19:16 AM PST by Redbob
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