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Putin: Terror rooted in USSR breakup
The Washington Times ^ | Nov. 1, 2005

Posted on 11/01/2005 5:06:38 PM PST by Tailgunner Joe

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"Within the European political school of thought there is an established position of pacifying all terrorist: as long as they don’t bother us. Take for instance, Chamberlain and Daladier, which at some point brought to their countries pieces of paper of with agreement with Hitler, and announced to their compatriots: “We have brought peace!” The World War started in the year. After that Ribbentrop-Molotov Pact was not the best solution but the necessary one in those conditions…” - Vladimir Putin
1 posted on 11/01/2005 5:06:39 PM PST by Tailgunner Joe
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To: Tailgunner Joe

He is correct. There was a power vacuum in the region. Russia is still not capable of reasserting hegemony over their former sphere, which is why the US is in there. When Russia recovers, things will quiet down. Whenever that comes, which it appears the Millenium will arrive first.


2 posted on 11/01/2005 5:10:17 PM PST by RightWhale (Repeal the law of the excluded middle)
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To: Tailgunner Joe

Yes, a totalitarian socialist state with no freedom of speech, religion, association or movement probably does cut down on opportunities for terrorism... How odd that people have to be tricked into it with unfulfillable promises... /sarcasm


3 posted on 11/01/2005 5:11:00 PM PST by gondramB
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To: Tailgunner Joe

"Russian President Vladimir Putin said Tuesday his country's problem with terrorism is rooted in the breakup of the Soviet Union."

He just NOW figured this out???


4 posted on 11/01/2005 5:13:45 PM PST by ButThreeLeftsDo (Carry Daily. Apply Sparingly.)
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To: Tailgunner Joe
All socialists/Marxists believe Russia was much more stable with communism, just as Iraq was much more stable under Saddam. Freedom is so inconvenient.
5 posted on 11/01/2005 5:34:23 PM PST by Rennes Templar ("The future ain't what it used to be".........Yogi Berra)
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To: Rennes Templar
Never mind Russia, they believe the whole world was more stable when the Soviets were still running their gulags and intentional famines and Americans were dying by the thousands while fighting proxy wars against the EVIL EMPIRE.

The Soviet apologist known as "Poohbah" even said once that nothing like 911 ever happened during the cold war because the KGB was around to stop it.

It must really burn them up that Ronald Reagan helped the Afghanis bleed their beloved communist Red Army dry.

6 posted on 11/01/2005 5:41:50 PM PST by Tailgunner Joe
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To: Tailgunner Joe

Ergo, USSR2 (or make it, 2+ .... the SCO and all that ...).


7 posted on 11/01/2005 5:47:51 PM PST by GOP_1900AD (Stomping on "PC," destroying the Left, and smoking out faux "conservatives" - Take Back The GOP!)
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To: Tailgunner Joe; jb6

More proof that Putin wants the USSR back!


8 posted on 11/01/2005 6:09:13 PM PST by Thunder90
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To: Thunder90

he always has ......once a red always a red!


9 posted on 11/01/2005 6:24:25 PM PST by fatteddy
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To: fatteddy

Putin ONLY talks about burying lenin when he is in trouble from the west for going "Too" communist. He Keeps us wondering over here, a classic tactic of a experenced KGB agent.


10 posted on 11/01/2005 6:25:59 PM PST by Thunder90
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To: RightWhale

I thought it was rooted because your country forcefully removed thousands of the Chechs. to Eastern Siberia after the war. That would piss me off too.


11 posted on 11/01/2005 6:30:18 PM PST by Skeeve14 (1980's RR-Communism Evil Empire 2000's GWB-Communism good for Business)
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To: ButThreeLeftsDo
He just NOW figured this out???

Just imagine what he would have figured out toting a "free" and "open" mindset!

12 posted on 11/01/2005 6:56:26 PM PST by EGPWS
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To: Tailgunner Joe
"It must really burn them up that Ronald Reagan helped the Afghanis bleed their beloved communist Red Army dry."

That's absolutely correct.

Great Leaders of The Free World

13 posted on 11/01/2005 6:56:42 PM PST by M. Espinola (Freedom is never free)
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To: Skeeve14
"I thought it was rooted because your country forcefully removed thousands of the Chechs. to Eastern Siberia after the war. That would piss me off too."

To this day Moscow acts as though the multi-millions which were forced out of homelands - never happened.

The Stalinist Penal System: A Statistical History of Soviet Repression and Terror, 1930-1953

50 YEARS ON, STALIN CASTS A SHADOW OVER RUSSIA

14 posted on 11/01/2005 7:03:43 PM PST by M. Espinola (Freedom is never free)
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To: Thunder90; GarySpFc

You do understand that most of the people didn't want the nation known as the USSR to break up is NOT the same as wanting the Soviet System back. Now, deny that because of the break up of the Soviets that Islamics did not flood the southern and northern Caucuses and Central Asia. So what part of what he said isn't true?


15 posted on 11/01/2005 8:38:09 PM PST by jb6 (The Atheist/Pagan mind, a quandary wrapped in egoism and served with a side order of self importance)
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To: gondramB
Problem is, you've just described every Islamic's dream state. As long as the Russians can't take control (militarily or economically) of these regions, terrorism will flourish and much of it WILL find its way to us, just like always. As for us, our positions there are untenable in the long run, as there are no ports or allied nations with adequate infrastructure to support a sizable force.
16 posted on 11/01/2005 8:40:52 PM PST by jb6 (The Atheist/Pagan mind, a quandary wrapped in egoism and served with a side order of self importance)
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To: Thunder90; fatteddy; ValenB4; anonymoussierra; zagor-te-nej; Freelance Warrior; kedr; ...
Putin ONLY talks about burying lenin when he is in trouble from the west for going "Too" communist.

Yes, Putin went communist you're absolutely right.

That's why they now have private property rights, which the democrat Yeltsin seems to have never gotten to. That's why they now have trial by jury, again, Yeltsin never quite got to that...to busy taking Clinton cash and advice. That's why they have a 13% flat income tax, our socialist tax system though is much much much more superior. They have a 24% corporate rate and a 14% corporate tech rate. Killed the sales tax, cut VAT by 1/3 and there is plans to cut it by another 1/3 and payroll taxes by 1/2 and shrunk the size of government, taking away the perks of the parliamentarians. Furthermore, they are paying off all of their external debt and set up a Anne Rand prescribed emergency fund for recessions, untouchable by the Duma.

Yup, all are communist moves, total communist moves. Those sneaky red bastards decided to implement our dream economic philosophies....damn commies.

Oh and on top of it all, they implemented Christian education programs in the schools and military! And they banned abortion after 12 weeks....see they have no love of freedom of choice! COMMIIIIIIIIIIEEEEEEESSSSSS!!!!!!!!!

17 posted on 11/01/2005 8:46:52 PM PST by jb6 (The Atheist/Pagan mind, a quandary wrapped in egoism and served with a side order of self importance)
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To: Tailgunner Joe

True. Everything was just lovely before the breakup. Back in the good old days, the communists spread terror around the the old C.C.C.P and the rest of the world equally.


18 posted on 11/01/2005 8:53:17 PM PST by dr_who_2
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To: dr_who_2

Not to mention all those nukes pointed at us and our allies.


19 posted on 11/01/2005 8:55:15 PM PST by dr_who_2
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To: dr_who_2

Again, most Russians and quite a few people in the Slavic republics and Central Asia lament the break up of the nation, this is not the same thing as lamenting the death of the communist party.


20 posted on 11/01/2005 8:57:15 PM PST by jb6 (The Atheist/Pagan mind, a quandary wrapped in egoism and served with a side order of self importance)
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To: jb6

Just like the Chinese are a capitalist society, and Vietam is coming close to being one. China is more capitolist than Russia is, and has the same level of personal liberties.


21 posted on 11/01/2005 10:01:36 PM PST by Thunder90
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To: jb6

And it is why China fears breaking up too. Too many Islamists in the Western provences of the PRC.


22 posted on 11/01/2005 10:02:45 PM PST by Thunder90
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To: Thunder90

China is controlled directly by the Communist party, a one party rule that still controls the heights of industry, which in this case is actually a fascist strategy.


23 posted on 11/01/2005 10:07:28 PM PST by jb6 (The Atheist/Pagan mind, a quandary wrapped in egoism and served with a side order of self importance)
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To: Tailgunner Joe

So Putin wants to put the USSR back together??


24 posted on 11/01/2005 10:12:16 PM PST by GeronL (Leftism is the INSANE Cult of the Artificial)
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To: jb6

I wonder why the Lenin's mummy's issue is important for some people.


25 posted on 11/01/2005 11:34:07 PM PST by Freelance Warrior
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To: Tailgunner Joe
...related.

Russia says new Topol RS-12 mobile ICBM can evade U.S. missile defense
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1513904/posts
(November 2, 2005)

26 posted on 11/02/2005 1:26:22 AM PST by familyop ("Let us try" sounds better, don't you think? "Essayons" is so...Latin.)
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To: All

If you buy Mr. Putin's dribble you should go and post on DU.


27 posted on 11/02/2005 4:32:29 AM PST by stockpirate (John Kerry & FBI files ==> http://www.freerepublic.com/~stockpirate/)
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To: Tailgunner Joe
Some days it appears as though Putin thinks he can use terrorists lands and the live warm bodies to reconstitute the USSR.
28 posted on 11/02/2005 4:37:01 AM PST by Just mythoughts
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To: jb6

If the USSR stil was in existence would we really expect the Mooselimb problem to be any better? I'd think that the USSR would probably be stirring up and arming the likes of Al Qaeda.


29 posted on 11/02/2005 4:39:59 AM PST by The Red Zone (Florida, the sun-shame state, and Illinois the chicken injun.)
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To: Tailgunner Joe
It must really burn them up that Ronald Reagan helped the Afghanis bleed their beloved communist Red Army dry.

================================================

And, under the law of unintended consequences, gave birth to al-queda.

30 posted on 11/02/2005 4:44:54 AM PST by wtc911 (see my profile for how to contribute to a pentagon heroes fund)
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To: jb6

"Problem is, you've just described every Islamic's dream state. As long as the Russians can't take control (militarily or economically) of these regions, terrorism will flourish and much of it WILL find its way to us, just like always. As for us, our positions there are untenable in the long run, as there are no ports or allied nations with adequate infrastructure to support a sizable force."

And the problem is that you have correctly described the situation.

On the other hand we don't want the Kremlin to return to heavy handed tactics that would force us to treat them adversarily.

It's a delicate balance and the administration seems to be doing fairly well. It was certainly encouraging to see Putin talking about not running for a third term.


31 posted on 11/02/2005 6:31:07 AM PST by gondramB
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To: The Red Zone
Again, don't confuse the issue of keeping a nation within the boundries of the old USSR, which itself was built within most of the boundries of the Russian empire, with the rule of the communist party. Most people wanted the communists out, period. They didn't want to turn one super power nation into 15 squabling states.

Furthermore, if only the communists were gotten rid of, Russia (as in all of the USSR) would have resembled the old Empire, as it's doing anyways, and yes, they would have pushed the Islamics down, just like they did before.

Starting with Tsarina Elizabeth, the Muslim lands were open to missionaries from all denominations of Christianity.

That's what many in the West can't get through their heads. They want to keep thinking of the Russians in the frame of the 1970s, Russians think of themselves in the frame of the 1910s and the reality on the ground is nothing in comparisson with the drival that these "experts" pump out...experts, mind you, the majority of which have never stepped foot in Russia (most never stepped foot in the USSR either for that matter).

32 posted on 11/02/2005 8:51:27 AM PST by jb6 (The Atheist/Pagan mind, a quandary wrapped in egoism and served with a side order of self importance)
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To: gondramB
On the other hand we don't want the Kremlin to return to heavy handed tactics that would force us to treat them adversarily.

Somehow I think once that first WMD goes off in an American city and the death toll climbs to x10 or x100 that of 911, we'll be encouraging and cheering the Russians to do just that.

33 posted on 11/02/2005 8:52:58 AM PST by jb6 (The Atheist/Pagan mind, a quandary wrapped in egoism and served with a side order of self importance)
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To: jb6

"Somehow I think once that first WMD goes off in an American city and the death toll climbs to x10 or x100 that of 911, we'll be encouraging and cheering the Russians to do just that."


I lived through the end of the cold war and I had family die from Stalinism and it was a much larger problem than Al Quaida - that is not a trade off we should take willingly.

But you are right that the American public reaction might well include panic and a willingness to do and accept anything in the name of safety.


34 posted on 11/02/2005 8:59:39 AM PST by gondramB
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To: Thunder90
Just like the Chinese are a capitalist society, and Vietam is coming close to being one. China is more capitolist than Russia is, and has the same level of personal liberties.

Firstly, Russia has freedom of religion, China does not. Secondly, Russians can obtain abortions up to 12 weeks, it's their CHOICE. In China women are forced to have abortions.

Secondly, one can own property in Russia. Property cannot be owned in China.

Thirdly, the Internet is not regulated in Russia, whereas in China it is strictly regulated. I frequently post to FR from Volgograd.

Fourthly, there are several political parties in Russia. There is only one in China.

Fifthly, there is freedom in the MSM, albeit the government does own a couple of the main TV stations, but overall there is freedom. There is no free press or TV in China.
35 posted on 11/02/2005 9:36:41 AM PST by GarySpFc (Sneakypete, De Oppresso Liber)
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To: Tailgunner Joe

There was little terrorism in Nazi Germany as well (except the state-sponsored kind, of course).


36 posted on 11/02/2005 9:37:42 AM PST by dfwgator
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To: wtc911
And, under the law of unintended consequences, gave birth to al-queda.

Having personal experience in this area I can tell you Russia and the US are both partly responsible.
37 posted on 11/02/2005 9:39:09 AM PST by GarySpFc (Sneakypete, De Oppresso Liber)
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To: jb6; Thunder90
Now, deny that because of the break up of the Soviets that Islamics did not flood the southern and northern Caucuses and Central Asia.

Those regions were islamic already.

38 posted on 11/02/2005 10:30:01 AM PST by Tailgunner Joe
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To: GarySpFc
Having personal experience in this area I can tell you Russia and the US are both partly responsible.

===============================================

I have no reason to doubt that.

Putin said in December 2001 that the Chechnya deal was really about creating a global caliphate. A month later the PM of Singapore announced evidence on a captured PC that indicated El-Jemiaah (sp?) has plans to create a SEAsian Caliphate that would link with regional caliphates in Africa, the ME and the Caucusus Mountains. I have no reason to doubt that this is still the objective.

39 posted on 11/02/2005 10:42:27 AM PST by wtc911 (see my profile for how to contribute to a pentagon heroes fund)
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To: wtc911

On every battlefield where you find dead al-Qaeda you will find Chechens. Need I say more?


40 posted on 11/02/2005 11:24:32 AM PST by GarySpFc (Sneakypete, De Oppresso Liber)
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To: gondramB

There won't be any stalinism in Russia but more then likely sooner or later there will be Tsarism and if you read up on history, Russia and America were allies form the start and up until 1917....of course this does not mean that men like Armnhammer or Ford or Rockefellers weren't trying (along with their leftist media allies....yup even back then) to get rid of the Tsar and help the "social" experiment in Russia.


41 posted on 11/02/2005 12:10:27 PM PST by jb6 (The Atheist/Pagan mind, a quandary wrapped in egoism and served with a side order of self importance)
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To: Tailgunner Joe
True to a degree, however, 200 years of Russian colonization and Russian culture had watered down that already watered down Islam (remember, most of those areas became Islamic within only the past 300-400 years and often enough by Suffis). Furthermore, starting from Tsarina Elizebeta, all Christian denominations were welcome to send missionaries into the "Mohammedan lands" to convert the locals at will.

The power vacueem that was created, especially with Taliban Afghanistan and Pakistan next door, not to mention Iran, and all those Arab Mujahadjin around....well we all know the results of this. Better a Christian Russia comes back and Christianizes that area then Wahhibies continue to set up shop. Islam in that area will get back to us, no matter what.

42 posted on 11/02/2005 12:14:15 PM PST by jb6 (The Atheist/Pagan mind, a quandary wrapped in egoism and served with a side order of self importance)
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To: GarySpFc; Thunder90

The simple fact that Russia has a dozen major and minor political parties and China ONE.


43 posted on 11/02/2005 12:15:12 PM PST by jb6 (The Atheist/Pagan mind, a quandary wrapped in egoism and served with a side order of self importance)
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To: jb6

how much blood is on his hands???? i take it you live there or going too? helping syria,iran china? seeya commie


44 posted on 11/02/2005 12:26:19 PM PST by fatteddy (teddy kennedy has one big ,large , head)
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To: GarySpFc

They have even been found in the Western provences of the PRC.


45 posted on 11/02/2005 2:34:43 PM PST by Thunder90
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To: Stellar Dendrite; GSlob; Lukasz; lizol; spanalot

p i n g.


46 posted on 11/02/2005 2:37:49 PM PST by Grzegorz 246
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To: Tailgunner Joe; Grzegorz 246
And didn't you know, that "fall of the Soviet Union was the greatest geo-political disaster of the century"?

According to Putin, of course
47 posted on 11/02/2005 2:43:11 PM PST by lizol
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To: Grzegorz 246
The World War started in the year. After that Ribbentrop-Molotov Pact was not the best solution but the necessary one in those conditions…” - Vladimir Putin

Putin is still Soviet in heart, that is why he is spreading communist propaganda, like some pseudo-conservatives in this thread.

48 posted on 11/02/2005 2:52:25 PM PST by Lukasz
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To: Grzegorz 246

Well, given the nature of USSR as a state, he might have a point - if you break a bottle, there will be come contents spillage.


49 posted on 11/02/2005 3:03:49 PM PST by GSlob
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To: Thunder90
More proof that Putin wants the USSR back!

Putin wants to keep Russia one country, rather than see it break up into several. If Muslim territories succeed in gaining independence, other areas will demand the same. So he will try to consolidate power in the central government.

Russia is too weak militarily and politically to defeat these Muslim rebels any time soon. The Russians will be tied down for many years just trying to maintain the current borders of the country. A revival of the former USSR in terms of expanding territory is not an option.

Does this mean that the Russian government will become as brutal as the former Soviet Union? That is certainly a possibility. Hopefully Putin will put more resources into building a better economy than copying the former police state.

50 posted on 11/02/2005 3:23:09 PM PST by stripes1776
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