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Board member to resume testimony in 'intelligent design' trial
Times Leader (Wilkes-Barre, PA) ^ | 02 November 2005 | MARTHA RAFFAELE

Posted on 11/02/2005 3:35:41 AM PST by PatrickHenry

A school board member who was questioned by a federal judge about discrepancies in his testimony on the purchase of "intelligent design" textbooks was expected to return to the witness stand Wednesday.

Dover Area School Board member Alan Bonsell was to undergo redirect questioning by an attorney representing the board in a landmark trial over whether intelligent design can be introduced in high school science classes.

Bonsell testified Monday that he had received an $850 check from fellow board member William Buckingham. The check was made out to Bonsell's father, who volunteered to donate copies of "Of Pandas and People" to the district.

U.S. District Judge John E. Jones III asked Bonsell why he never shared that information in a January deposition when he was repeatedly asked under oath about who was involved in making the donation. Bonsell, who served as the board's president in 2004, said he misspoke. [Note to school board lawyers: When the judge asks your client why he's lying, it's usually not a good sign.]

Buckingham testified Thursday he collected $850 in donations to help purchase the books during a Sunday service at his church.

The board is defending its October 2004 decision to require students to hear a statement about intelligent design before ninth-grade biology lessons on evolution. The statement says Charles Darwin's theory is "not a fact," has inexplicable "gaps," and refers students to the textbook for more information.

Eight families are suing to have intelligent design removed from the biology curriculum because they believe the policy essentially promotes the Bible's view of creation, and therefore violates the constitutional separation of church and state.

Intelligent design supporters argue that natural selection, an element of evolutionary theory, cannot fully explain the origin of life or the emergence of highly complex life forms.

The trial began Sept. 26 and is expected to conclude on Friday.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: bearingfalsewitness; creationisminadress; crevolist; dover; rwc1tempertantrum
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To: VadeRetro

Hey, that picture you've posted is nothing but an overgrown rat. But there's something about the medulla (Islamic similarities noted) of a terrier that turns a genteel lap dog into a big toothed terror. And flying monkeys are no match.


51 posted on 11/02/2005 8:41:11 AM PST by furball4paws (One of the last Evil Geniuses, or the first of their return.)
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To: Coyoteman
That's not really mine. Mine wasn't scary enough.

That one's mine. When he dies, I'll stuff him and mount him on the sofa just like that.

52 posted on 11/02/2005 8:41:58 AM PST by VadeRetro (Liberalism is a cancer on society. Creationism is a cancer on conservatism.)
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To: VadeRetro

That's more like it!


53 posted on 11/02/2005 8:43:20 AM PST by Coyoteman (I love the sound of beta decay in the morning!)
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To: highball
Of course you would. But that's not what Rightwing Conspiratr1 meant. He wants the Christ's divinity taught as truth instead of as faith.

In 1807, the chairman of the committee on education for the District of Columbia schools decreed that the Christian Bible and Watts Hymnal must be taught in the D.C. public schools. That man was Thomas Jefferson, who was also the President of the United States. The LAW has not changed. FDR's Communists rewrote the LAW in 1947 in a fit of judicial activism.

54 posted on 11/02/2005 8:43:32 AM PST by Rightwing Conspiratr1 (Lock-n-load!)
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To: VadeRetro

How do I post a scanned image?

Anybody


55 posted on 11/02/2005 8:43:36 AM PST by furball4paws (One of the last Evil Geniuses, or the first of their return.)
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To: furball4paws
You have to link to somewhere on the web. Most ISP contracts give you a certain amount of server space somewhere and you upload to that.
56 posted on 11/02/2005 8:45:10 AM PST by VadeRetro (Liberalism is a cancer on society. Creationism is a cancer on conservatism.)
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Comment #57 Removed by Moderator

To: Quark2005; Rightwing Conspiratr1
I defy you to produce any evidence showing that the scientifically literate are prone to prostrating themselves before monkeys.

Good luck - this case has shown us that creationists think nothing of lying to advance their political agenda.

I would like to ask all creationists to decry the tactics used by the school board in this case, or risk confirming that the entire movement is bereft of any integrity whatsoever.

58 posted on 11/02/2005 8:48:08 AM PST by highball ("I find that the harder I work, the more luck I seem to have." -- Thomas Jefferson)
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To: Rightwing Conspiratr1
The 14th amendment did not change the meaning of 1st amendment

The history of the 14th is that immediately after the civil war, some southern states were claiming that rights given in the Constitution did not apply in the states, specifically about blacks. That was a stupid argument, in as much as if those rights didn't apply in the states, then where would they have applied? In the Federal City and territories? Nevertheless the 14th was passed to tell those southern states that when the Constitution gave us a right, it meant it.

The problem is that the First, as you claim, was specifically directed at limiting what the Congress could do. As such, it can be construed not as granting rights (and thus covered under the 14th), but at limiting Congress. Indeed, several states that ratified the First had official religions up till around 1820, thus the wording "Congress shall make no law", because several states already had such laws and intended to keep them.

Perhaps the First should be amended to remove the "Congress shall make no law" clause. Certainly the presstitutes would like such a thing since the First also covers freedom of the press.

But your problem is if the First were interpreted as originally intended, there will be religion taught in schools. And certainly every parent with a student will insist that their religion be taught with the same validity as Christianity. The Muslims in particular, since their demographics are growing, will demand such a thing. I'm sure the Indians in Northern Arizona will insist on teaching their religious stories as hard fact too.

I can think of nothing more damaging to the faith of young people than teaching several diametrically opposed faiths as fact, side by side. I rejected my Christian faith in large part because I realized that there were many different human faiths, and that none of them had any more reason to claim validity than any other.

Perhaps now is a good time for a Coyoteman creation myth.

Be careful of what you wish for. You may get it.

59 posted on 11/02/2005 8:48:17 AM PST by narby (Hillary! The Wicked Witch of the Left)
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To: VadeRetro

Which one was it?


60 posted on 11/02/2005 8:52:18 AM PST by b_sharp (Science adjusts theories to fit evidence, creationism distorts evidence to fit the Bible.)
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To: b_sharp
This little honey. No redeeming qualities.
61 posted on 11/02/2005 8:55:21 AM PST by VadeRetro (Liberalism is a cancer on society. Creationism is a cancer on conservatism.)
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To: highball

Does this mean I have to put away my monkey god statue. I know he was only collecting dust, but he's a real conversation piece.


62 posted on 11/02/2005 8:56:59 AM PST by furball4paws (One of the last Evil Geniuses, or the first of their return.)
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To: Servant of the 9

Then why don't you object to teaching the secular religion of Darwinism?


63 posted on 11/02/2005 9:00:06 AM PST by balch3
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Comment #64 Removed by Moderator

To: Quark2005

Here's a monkey god for you, but I don't see any scientific literati there.

http://hinduism.about.com/library/weekly/extra/bl-hanumangallery.htm


65 posted on 11/02/2005 9:01:17 AM PST by furball4paws (One of the last Evil Geniuses, or the first of their return.)
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To: Rightwing Conspiratr1
What a post! This is your brain on creationist quote-science.

It doesn't work any better in law and government than it does in science.

66 posted on 11/02/2005 9:04:52 AM PST by VadeRetro (Liberalism is a cancer on society. Creationism is a cancer on conservatism.)
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To: furball4paws

Yeah. It's not atheists who worship the Monkey God. It's Hindus. I guess he got that one wrong. What else did he get wrong.

Perhaps we should teach the Hindu creation myth(s) in school, too. They're really creative.


67 posted on 11/02/2005 9:06:17 AM PST by MineralMan (godless atheist)
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To: balch3
Then why don't you object to teaching the secular religion of Darwinism?

Has it occurred to you that not everything is a religion or even about religion?

68 posted on 11/02/2005 9:06:43 AM PST by VadeRetro (Liberalism is a cancer on society. Creationism is a cancer on conservatism.)
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To: Rightwing Conspiratr1

"This is an attempt at affirmative action for athiesm and monkey worshippers"

Huh? What do atheists and Hindus have to do with this? I didn't even know that the Hindu monkey god was involved in this.


69 posted on 11/02/2005 9:09:03 AM PST by MineralMan (godless atheist)
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To: VadeRetro

Thanks.

Looks like fun. Not!


70 posted on 11/02/2005 9:11:26 AM PST by b_sharp (Science adjusts theories to fit evidence, creationism distorts evidence to fit the Bible.)
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To: furball4paws

71 posted on 11/02/2005 9:11:36 AM PST by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch ist der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: VadeRetro

It's a strange thread indeed, when Uncle Fester seems like the breath of fresh air.


72 posted on 11/02/2005 9:11:40 AM PST by furball4paws (One of the last Evil Geniuses, or the first of their return.)
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To: VadeRetro
What a post! This is your brain on creationist quote-science.

It's a keeper. I'll be adding it to The List-O-Links.

73 posted on 11/02/2005 9:11:50 AM PST by PatrickHenry (Reality is a harsh mistress. No rationality, no mercy)
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To: balch3
Then why don't you object to teaching the secular religion of Darwinism?

Because it isn't a religion, by any definition.

Once again, when a creationist wants to disparage evolution, he calls it a "religion." I'm always amused by that - it tells us more about creationists than they realize.

74 posted on 11/02/2005 9:11:57 AM PST by highball ("I find that the harder I work, the more luck I seem to have." -- Thomas Jefferson)
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To: Rightwing Conspiratr1
I'm sick and tired of athiest monkey-worshipping communist swine polluting this PRO-GOD CONSERVATIVE forum with their snide elitist DUmmie references to the intelligence of Christian posters. Go piss off, as you say..."Half-Wit".

Well, doesn't that just say it all....

75 posted on 11/02/2005 9:13:07 AM PST by narby (Hillary! The Wicked Witch of the Left)
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To: Doctor Stochastic

You left off the fourth one, with both hands over his crotch.


76 posted on 11/02/2005 9:13:32 AM PST by furball4paws (One of the last Evil Geniuses, or the first of their return.)
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Testy testes placemarker.


77 posted on 11/02/2005 9:15:42 AM PST by furball4paws (One of the last Evil Geniuses, or the first of their return.)
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To: WildHorseCrash

You've only been called a communist. Until you get called nazi and wiccan, you haven't arrived.

Note that no creationist will criticize someone doing such name calling. By their silence, they all support such tactics just as by their silence, all creationists support they lying of the school board members.


78 posted on 11/02/2005 9:16:11 AM PST by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch ist der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: MineralMan
Here's just a sample of the monkey-worshipping religious symbols used in a Biology class. As you can see to the left is A, Curious George, the Adam of Evolution Theology sitting atop this heathen totem pole. Genesis should be read in Biology class, and all references to modern monkeys as Adam be removed.
79 posted on 11/02/2005 9:18:20 AM PST by Rightwing Conspiratr1 (Lock-n-load!)
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To: All
Justed added to The List-O-Links, in the section called THIS IS YOUR BRAIN ON CREATIONISM:

NEW post 64 by Rightwing Conspiratr1 on 02 Nov 2005. I'm sick and tired of athiest monkey-worshipping communist swine ...

80 posted on 11/02/2005 9:21:28 AM PST by PatrickHenry (Reality is a harsh mistress. No rationality, no mercy)
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To: Doctor Stochastic
All "witnessing" is above criticism, period. QED. The endeavor is hopelessly rotten.
81 posted on 11/02/2005 9:22:45 AM PST by VadeRetro (Liberalism is a cancer on society. Creationism is a cancer on conservatism.)
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Tasty testy testes placemarker.

http://whatscookingamerica.net/History/RockyMtnOyster.htm


82 posted on 11/02/2005 9:23:33 AM PST by furball4paws (One of the last Evil Geniuses, or the first of their return.)
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To: narby
Here's another example of the monkey creation myth. You will find pictures very much like this in Biology class (in particular the 4 mythological figures on the left). I don't have a scanner otherwise I'd scan the one from my son's Biology book. This will suffice...as many have seen Evolution theologist's drawings.
83 posted on 11/02/2005 9:25:14 AM PST by Rightwing Conspiratr1 (Lock-n-load!)
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To: Rightwing Conspiratr1
Nothing in there is a monkey or a picture of a monkey. No monkey.
84 posted on 11/02/2005 9:34:12 AM PST by VadeRetro (Liberalism is a cancer on society. Creationism is a cancer on conservatism.)
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To: PatrickHenry
We could make a video of this thread and call it "Anti-Evo Trolls Gone Wild!"

Bet it would sell, too.

85 posted on 11/02/2005 9:37:13 AM PST by longshadow
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To: VadeRetro; Rightwing Conspiratr1
Nothing in there is a monkey or a picture of a monkey. No monkey.

Shhh - don't confuse him with facts. ;-)

86 posted on 11/02/2005 9:38:04 AM PST by highball ("I find that the harder I work, the more luck I seem to have." -- Thomas Jefferson)
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To: Rightwing Conspiratr1
Are you trying to provoke a flame war by posting direct, slanderous attacks about other people's opinions? This could very easily escalate to both sides slinging insulting, offending items with no other purpose than to antagonize the other side.

Please rethink your tactics and try to remain civil.

87 posted on 11/02/2005 9:42:08 AM PST by Antonello
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To: Doctor Stochastic; WildHorseCrash
Note that no creationist will criticize someone doing such name calling. By their silence, they all support such tactics just as by their silence, all creationists support they lying of the school board members.

I've been asking creationists if they support or condemn the lies used by the school board in this case. To date, not one has even answered the question, much less tried to distance him/herself from the lies.

Their silence tells us all we need to know about their integrity, and the integrity of their movement.

88 posted on 11/02/2005 9:42:17 AM PST by highball ("I find that the harder I work, the more luck I seem to have." -- Thomas Jefferson)
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To: Rightwing Conspiratr1
This is an attempt at affirmative action for athiesm and monkey worshippers.

Dishonest equivocation of evolution with atheism (and Hinduism?) noted.

Creationists are liars.
89 posted on 11/02/2005 9:45:58 AM PST by Dimensio (http://angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif <-- required reading before you use your next apostrophe!)
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To: shuckmaster
Creationists are basically a disorganized bunch of dishonest liars

No, no misspeakers!
90 posted on 11/02/2005 9:46:24 AM PST by Dimensio (http://angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif <-- required reading before you use your next apostrophe!)
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To: Rightwing Conspiratr1

We're talking about science, not politics. Please stop dishonestly changing the subject.


91 posted on 11/02/2005 9:47:35 AM PST by Dimensio (http://angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif <-- required reading before you use your next apostrophe!)
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To: longshadow
He could just as well charge them with felony stupidity, but that would be "piling on."

If that were a crime, we'd have only three people left in Congress.

92 posted on 11/02/2005 9:49:18 AM PST by RogueIsland
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To: Rightwing Conspiratr1

Okay, you're a troll. It's quite clear. Like all creationists, you're willing to use any manner of lies to support your claims because you don't have a single fact to present against evolution, but your lies are over the top to the point where I can't even accept that you believe them. Nothing you say carries any credibility and nothing you say can be trusted.


93 posted on 11/02/2005 9:51:31 AM PST by Dimensio (http://angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif <-- required reading before you use your next apostrophe!)
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To: Antonello

See post #4.


94 posted on 11/02/2005 9:54:32 AM PST by Rightwing Conspiratr1 (Lock-n-load!)
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To: Antonello; Rightwing Conspiratr1
When something goes as far as RWC has gone, humour reigns supreme. I doubt if it will escalate.
95 posted on 11/02/2005 9:55:34 AM PST by b_sharp (Science adjusts theories to fit evidence, creationism distorts evidence to fit the Bible.)
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To: Antonello

Aw c'mon. It's a lot more fun to watch and see what else may ooze out from under his lid.


96 posted on 11/02/2005 9:57:14 AM PST by furball4paws (One of the last Evil Geniuses, or the first of their return.)
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To: PatrickHenry
It's a keeper.

Alas! Man proposes, the admin-moderator disposes.

97 posted on 11/02/2005 9:57:18 AM PST by VadeRetro (Liberalism is a cancer on society. Creationism is a cancer on conservatism.)
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To: Rightwing Conspiratr1
Here's another for your collection:


98 posted on 11/02/2005 9:59:09 AM PST by Michael_Michaelangelo (The best theory is not ipso facto a good theory. Lots of links on my homepage...)
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To: Rightwing Conspiratr1

"Xenu belongs in the public schools." placemark


99 posted on 11/02/2005 9:59:30 AM PST by dread78645 (Sorry Mr. Franklin, We couldn't keep it.)
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To: furball4paws
Here's a monkey god for you, but I don't see any scientific literati there.

Me neither. Given that fundamentalist Hindus are also creationists, there's probably more more monkey-worshipping creationists than evolutionists, I'm willing to bet.

100 posted on 11/02/2005 10:00:40 AM PST by Quark2005 (Science aims to elucidate. Pseudoscience aims to obfuscate.)
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