Army Chaplain Sentenced For Sodomizing Troops

The Hometown Channel ^ | November 2, 2005 | AP

[wideminded]

ELCA's chief executive or whatever is the rampagingly liberal Dr. Martin Marty.

I'm not a member of the ELCA and had never heard of Martin Marty so I looked him up. He is listed on the ELCA website as being a "church historian". He spent most of his career as a professor at the University of Chicago Divinity School. Although he is on the board of regents of an ELCA-affiliated college, I could not find a reference to his ever having held an administrative position with the ELCA, although he was a Lutheran pastor from 1952 to 1963.

The MSM has no interest whatever in making Marty's life difficult.

You have a distorted view of how the world works. If Lutheran pastors were found to be molesting kids, it would be big news. It might not be quite as big a story as the RCC scandals unless hundreds of Lutheran pastors were accused of abuse. You don't hear about these things because they are not happening, not because the "MSM" is protecting a 77 year-old emeritus professor.

[Blessed]

>Again, I said let's try to stick to facts; from which there is no foundation for your 2%, or your 1/3 figures cited above.<

Numerous studies from Kinsey to current day studies have pegged the Homosexual population in a range of 1% to 3%.Know legitimate social scientist uses any higher number.

If you bother to do any reasearch at all you will find that 1/3 of all sexual crimes involve same sex attacks.In fact the majority of these are male on male.

I realize these facts bother you because they are contrary to the explanation devoid of statistics that the Homosexual Lobby has promolgated to justify the unjustifiable.If you have a problem with the facts show me your data that disputes mine.

[BlackElk]

My views are Roman Catholic and conservative and, if you think them distorted, that is your problem and not mine. I am pinging a couple of others, one ELCA and one Catholic to join in discussion as to the nature and background of Dr. Martin Marty.

[jwalsh07]

Father Gregory should spend the remainder of his days asking for God's forgiveness whilst breaking rocks at Fort Leavenworth.

[ALWAYSWELDING]

The priest actually may or may not have been a homosexual.

?????. May NOT have been? I think you are taking this to an fictitious analytical extreme.

This guy was definitely sexual predator and definitely gay.

[wideminded]

I am pinging a couple of others, one ELCA and one Catholic to join in discussion as to the nature and background of Dr. Martin Marty.

Dr. Marty is your straw man. I have no doubt that he is incredibly liberal, but that has nothing to do with the subject of whether abuse by non-Catholic clergy would be reported.

Just to be fair I checked into abuse cases involving Lutheran pastors.

Here's an article about a big settlement.

Here's a list of some cases:
Child Sexual Molestation by Lutheran Protestant Clergy

Here's an article from the "MSM":
Abuse by Clergy Is Not Just a Catholic Problem

So there are definitely cases. But as I said before, for whatever reason the magnitude of the problem appears to have been greater in the RCC.

[Wuli]

"If you bother to do any reasearch at all you will find that 1/3 of all sexual crimes involve same sex attacks.In fact the majority of these are male on male."

If these are facts, then you must have dozens of legitimate studies from which you can cite the figures. Please do so, without them it sounds like partisan wishful thinking.

For instance:

Composition of substantiated child abuse in 2000:
879,000 children were victims of child maltreatment.
Neglect ~ 63%
Physical ~ 19%
Sexual ~ 10%
Psychological ~ 8%

Rate of sexual abuse by gender:
1.7 victims per 1,000 female children
0.4 victims per 1,000 male children

Source: US Dept of Health and Human Services,
Administration for Children & Families, and
National Clearinghouse on Child Abuse and Neglect, 2000.

In other words, roughly 80% of the child sexual abuse victims were female.

Further;

And:

Age Profile of Sexual Abuse Victims
Victims Age Rate(% of Total)
..0.to.5...........14%
..6.to.11..........20.1%
.12.to.17..........32.8%
.18.to.24..........14.2%
.25.to.34..........11.5%
Above.34...........7.4%

Female Proportion of Victims
Victims Age Rate(% of Total)
All...........86.2%
.0.to..5......69.4%
.6.to.11......74.9%
12.to.17......90.9%
18.to.24......95.4%
25.to.34......96.1%
Above.34......95.3%

Age Profile of Offenders
Offenders Age Rate(% of Total)
All 100.0%
.7.to.11.......3.6%
12.to.17.......19.5% - Juveniles subtotal 23.2%
18.to.24.......21.7%
25.to.34.......26.7%
Above.34.......28.4% - Adults subtotal 76.8%

Victim Offender Relationships
Offender
Victims Age Family Member - Acquaintence - Stranger
Females-All......25.7%............59.5%.......14.7%
..0.to..5........51.1%............45.9%........3%
..6.to.11........43.8%............51.4%........4.8%
.12.to.17........24.3%............45.9%.......10%
.18.to.24.........9.8%............66.4%.......23.8%
Above..24........12.9%............56.9%.......30.2%

Males-All........32.8%............59.8%.......7.3%
..0.to..5........35.8%............59.2%.......5%
..6.to.11........37.7%............57.7%.......4.6%
.12.to.17........23.7%............68.7%.......7.6%
.18.to.24........10.7%............68.4%.......20.9%
Above..24........11.8%............60.3%.......27.9%

Notes with above tables: Nearly all of the offenders in sexual assaults reported to law enforcement were male (96%). Female offenders were most common in assaults against victims under age 6. For these youngest victims, 12% of offenders were females, compared with 6% for victims ages 6 through 12, and 3% for victims ages 12 through 17. Overall, 6% of the offenders who sexually assaulted juveniles were female, compared with just 1% of the female offenders who sexually assaulted adults.

The tables above are from:
Sexual Assault of Young Children as
Reported to Law Enforcement:
Victim, Incident, and Offender
Characteristics by Howard N. Snyder, Ph.D.
National Center for Juvenile Justice
July 2000, NCJ 182990

From them, or any other similar documented statistics, you cannot derive your "1/3 of all sexual crimes involve same sex attacks" statement, but you can see where, as I have said beore, the majority of sexual abuse victims are female (86%) and with children the offender is most often (between 70.2% and 97%) a family member or someone the victim knows.

[Amish with an attitude]

"As a Catholic I am glad that these predators continue to get caught and that this incidents are not swept under the rug."

But with the number of men willing to enter the priesthood falling, who will be left?

[CatQuilt]

"I think Benedict announced a few weeks ago that NO gays were to be accepted to seminaries anymore --chaste or not."

Both sides were leaking things to the press. The official document is 'coming out' tomorrow. Pray!!!

[Blessed]

>If these are facts, then you must have dozens of legitimate studies from which you can cite the figures. Please do so, without them it sounds like partisan wishful thinking. <

Here are a few.Your figures are skewed because they refer to total abuse of children (spanking and verbal)not just sexual.

"A Significant Percentage of Child Sexual Abuse Victims are Boys
· According to the Journal of Child Psychiatry: "It was commonly believed fifteen years ago that girls were abused in excess of boys in a ratio of about 9 to 1, but contemporary studies now indicate that the ratio of girls to boys abused has narrowed remarkably. . . . The majority of community studies suggest a . . . ratio . . . in the order of 2 to 4 girls to 1 boy."[5] Another study found that "some authors now believe that boys may be sexually abused as commonly as girls (Groth, 1978; O'Brien, 1980)."[6]

· A study of 457 male sex offenders against children in Journal of Sex and Marital Therapy found that "approximately one-third of these sexual offenders directed their sexual activity against males."[7]

Sexual Abuse of Boys is Underreported
The actual percentage of child sexual abuse victims who are boys very likely exceeds the above estimates. Many researchers echo the view of the Journal of Child Psychiatry study, which refers to the "under-reporting of the incidence and prevalence of sexual abuse in boys."[8]

· Dr. Robert Johnson, in Medical Aspects of Human Sexuality, reports: "The vast majority of cases of male sexual molestation is not reported. As a result, these young men keep both the incidents and their feelings to themselves."[9]

· The Department of Justice report on child sexual exploitation explains why the percentage of boy victims is underestimated: "Adolescent boy victims are highly likely to deny certain types of sexual activity. . . . They are embarrassed and ashamed of their behavior and rightfully believe that society will not understand their victimization. . . . No matter what the investigator does, most adolescent boys will deny they were victims."[10]

· The Journal of Child Psychiatry adds: "Boys are usually encultured into an ethos where self-reliance, independence and sexual prowess are valued, while showing hurt or homosexuality are denigrated. . . . This may lead to powerful repression or deletion of the experience, with failure to report."[11]


Why do you insist on defending these perverts?

[Blessed]

Go back and look at your tables.They have been intentionaly formulated to hide the high instance of homosexual child abuse.They have made over half the sample to include 18-35 year olds and those under 6.Notice even these charts show 25% of abuse in ages between 6-11 is male on male and 10% in 12-18 group.

[Wuli]

"Here are a few. Your figures are skewed because they refer to total abuse of children (spanking and verbal)not just sexual."

No, again you are wrong, as my post said, the tables are from: Sexual Assault of Young Children as Reported to Law Enforcement, Victim, Incident, and Offender Characteristics by Howard N. Snyder, Ph.D., National Center for Juvenile Justice July 2000, NCJ 182990

"The majority of community studies suggest a . . . ratio . . . in the order of 2 to 4 girls to 1 boy."[5] Another study found that "some authors now believe that boys may be sexually abused as commonly as girls (Groth, 1978; O'Brien, 1980)"

(1)The author sites a quote, but that quote does not lead to the "community studies" it is supposedly based on, and (2)"authors" beliefs are not documented studies either. (3)A long recognized problem with collections of "community studies", as opposed to broad national studies is that they are snapshots, almost anecdotal and not broadly based, and therefore the results can be skewed with a few high impact areas, because the figures are derived only from the communities where studies were done, not all communities and not with any control mechanism to account for the missing broader demographics. That is why most reputable scientists use national figures, such as I cited:

Rate of sexual abuse by gender:
1.7 victims per 1,000 female children
0.4 victims per 1,000 male children

Source: US Dept of Health and Human Services,
Administration for Children & Families, and
National Clearinghouse on Child Abuse and Neglect, 2000.

"A study of 457 male sex offenders against children in Journal of Sex and Marital Therapy found that "approximately one-third of these sexual offenders directed their sexual activity against males."

A single study does not make a broad national statistic, particularly a study so small, and cannot be used to extrapolate national figures from it. I take it that it is from this item you have drawn your conclusions that 1/3 of all sexual abuse is same-sex abuse? Any reputable scientist who drew that conclusion for you is not a true scientist.

While there is true that boys are not as likely as girls to report an incident, we cannot just invent figures to try to account for it.

My arguments are not to try to "protect" "perverts", they are to correct the lousy arguments against the "perverts" that you make with your misleading figures. There is nothing worse for a good cause than a lousy argument, built on conjecture, bad data, misrepresented statitistics, guess work, assumptions and hyperpole (which many "authors" on this topic do - because it sells books). It makes those who want to agree with your essential premise turn away, not join you.

[BlackElk]

Frances Kissling is said to be an ex-nun. She is certainly an ex-Catholic whatever she may claim. More pertinent is the fact that one of her board members is an ex-priest who was one of my parish priests in the 1960s and who was a friend and with whom I lifted weights three times a week. Please pray for him that he return to faith in God and leaves behind the evils of promoting abortion. He is one of the six of twelve children in his family who entered the religious life and his brother, a priest, was martyred by beheading in Vietnam in 1954.

If I did not make it clear, I was not trying to smear the membership of ELCA but was attacking Dr. Marty whom I had thought was the head of that denomination. If I was wrong about that, I wanted to ping you for confirmation one way or another since you would know better than I.

As I have posted in the past, my mother's closest friend was a very old-fashioned Methodist woman who spent her last twenty or so years unchurched since the area Methodist Churches in our community offered her no genuinely Bible-based preachers or pastors. She was not Catholic at all but she was the most Christian woman I ever hope to know. I have never believed the claim that one must be a Catholic to go to heaven. Whatever my differences with reformed churches, I respect many of their members including you. May God bless you and yours.