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U.S. Court Allows Survey of Children on Sex Topics
Reuters ^ | 11/3/05 | Unknown

Posted on 11/03/2005 7:37:18 AM PST by Syco

SAN FRANCISCO, Nov 2 (Reuters) - Parents have no constitutional right to prevent public schools from exposing children to sexual topics, a U.S. appeals court ruled on Wednesday.

The San Francisco-based 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals affirmed a lower court's decision that found the rights of parents were not violated by a California public school district that allowed a psychological survey of its elementary school children.

Among the survey questions asked of the children were 10 with sexual references, such as "Can't stop thinking about sex" and "Not trusting people because they might want sex."

A group of parents whose children were surveyed sued the Palmdale School District, alleging their right to privacy and civil rights had been violated because control of their children's upbringing had been "robbed."

A three-judge panel held the parents have a right to inform their children as they wish about sex but do not have the right to prevent a public school from providing students with information it deems appropriate.

"Schools cannot be expected to accommodate the personal, moral or religious concerns of every parent," Judge Stephen Reinhardt wrote for the panel. "Such an obligation would not only contravene the educational mission of the public schools, but also would be impossible to satisfy."


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events; Philosophy; US: California
KEYWORDS: 9thcircuit; children; constitution; dirty; filth; homosexualagenda; judicialtyranny; moralabsolutes; ninthcircuit; parentalrights; perversion; ruling; sex; sexeducation
This is OUTRAGEOUS! Not only is this grossly unconstitutional (if you actually bother to read the Constitution which the monkeys on the Ninth Circuit routinely fail to do) but it is being treated as a minor issue by the MSM. It's not minor. What if the public school decides to show my 5 year old gay porn? I apparently have no right to stop this if the school deems such viewing as appropriate!

If you're a parent or ever plan to be you need to call your Senators on this one!

Here is an excerpt from the text of the court's decision:

"…there is no fundamental right of parents to be the exclusive provider of information regarding sexual matters to their children, either independent of their right to direct the upbringing and education of their children or encompassed by it. We also hold that parents have no due process or privacy right to override the determinations of public schools as to the information to which their children will be exposed while enrolled as students. Finally, we hold that the defendants’ actions were rationally related to a legitimate state purpose.... …In summary, we hold that there is no free-standing fundamental right of parents “to control the upbringing of their children by introducing them to matters of and relating to sex in accordance with their personal and religious values and beliefs” and that the asserted right is not encompassed by any other fundamental right. In doing so, we do not quarrel with the parents’ right to inform and advise their children about the subject of sex as they see fit. We conclude only that the parents are possessed of no constitutional right to prevent the public schools from providing information on that subject to their students in any forum or manner they select."

This is one more attempt by the Ninth Circuit to eliminate the rights of parents. Alito can't be seated fast enough!

1 posted on 11/03/2005 7:37:20 AM PST by Syco
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To: Syco
there is no fundamental right of parents to be the exclusive provider of information regarding sexual matters to their children, either independent of their right to direct the upbringing and education of their children or encompassed by it. We also hold that parents have no due process or privacy right to override the determinations of public schools as to the information to which their children will be exposed while enrolled as students.

Even if there is no fundamental right of parents to be the "exclusive provider of information regarding sexual matters to their children", there IS a fundamental right to be the gatekeeper in determining what is appropriate for their children and parents absolutely have a right to know if the school intends to give the children a "survey" with intrusive personal questions about sexual topics.

2 posted on 11/03/2005 7:40:51 AM PST by VRWCmember (hard-core, politically angry, hyperconservative, and loaded with vitriol about everything liberal.)
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To: Syco

You know, they get by with this stuff all the time by labeling anything that comes down the pipe as "information." Who can be opposed to "information"? A tactic conservatives should start using also until they get it. Creationist stuff is "information." Pictures of unborn babies being ripped apart are "information." Etc.


3 posted on 11/03/2005 7:41:05 AM PST by jwalburg (If I have not seen as far as others, it is because of the giants standing on my shoulders.)
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To: Syco

Easy answer....do away with public schools!!! That would also take care of the NEA.......


4 posted on 11/03/2005 7:42:30 AM PST by maeng
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To: Syco

"…there is no fundamental right of parents to be the exclusive provider of information regarding sexual matters to their children"

Really? I say there is, and always has been. Who gave those leftist slugs the authority to negate human rights?


5 posted on 11/03/2005 7:44:01 AM PST by dsc
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To: Syco
"We also hold that parents have no due process or privacy right to override the determinations of public schools as to the information to which their children will be exposed while enrolled as students."

”Let me control the textbooks and I will control the state. The state will take youth and give to youth it’s own education and it’s own upbringing. Your child belongs to us already....what are you?”.... Adolph Hitler

The obvious - get 'em out of there!

6 posted on 11/03/2005 7:50:07 AM PST by patriot_wes (papal infallibility - a proud tradition since 1869)
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To: Syco

Its sick.


7 posted on 11/03/2005 7:51:43 AM PST by x5452
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To: Syco

I think it could be argued that this survey is an act of violence against a seven-year old. I would see about getting a group of parents together, find a pro-bono lawyer, and absolutely sue the sh*t out of the school board/district that allowed this.


8 posted on 11/03/2005 7:58:33 AM PST by Rutles4Ever (Stuck on Genius)
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To: Syco
Schools cannot be expected to accommodate the personal, moral or religious concerns of every parent," Judge Stephen Reinhardt wrote

No. But they can take their money and their kids.

Why, oh why, isn't the 9th Circus Court a footnote in history by now? For that matter, why aren't "public" schools?

9 posted on 11/03/2005 8:00:09 AM PST by Gritty ("The Supreme Court has reconstituted itself as a permanent constitutional convention" - Don Feder)
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To: Syco
Image hosted by TinyPic.com
THE 9TH U.S. CIRCUIT COURT OF APPEALS
10 posted on 11/03/2005 8:05:51 AM PST by Old Seadog (Inside every old person is a young person saying "WTF happened?".)
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To: Syco

Bravo sierra like this is why I'm home-schooling my daughter when she gets older.


11 posted on 11/03/2005 8:10:51 AM PST by gieriscm
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To: Syco

This decision is so bad, it is obnoxious.
I'm not a lawyer, but there must be some legal basis for parents having the right to raise their children as they see fit. Schools are the agents of the parents, not some separate independent "parent" authority. This is just one more reason for not sending your children to public school!


12 posted on 11/03/2005 8:13:29 AM PST by Doneel
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To: Syco
Some background for you all:

Reinhardt, Stephen Roy
Born 1931 in New York, NY

Federal Judicial Service:
U. S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit
Nominated by Jimmy Carter on November 30, 1979, to a new seat created by 92 Stat. 1629; Confirmed by the Senate on September 11, 1980, and received commission on September 11, 1980.

From The Weekly Standard:

The Judge the Supreme Court Loves to Overturn
From the May 5, 1997 issue: Judge Stephen Reinhardt was notorious long before his 9th Circuit's Pledge of Allegiance decision.
by Matt Rees 05/05/1997, Volume 002, Issue 33

STEPHEN REINHARDT is the liberal badboy of the federal judiciary. He is ideological, outlandish, and never dull. The 66-year-old judge, appointed by Jimmy Carter in 1980 to the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals in San Francisco, is well known to the Supreme Court, which has a habit of overturning his opinions.

In fact, Reinhardt is one of the most overturned judges in history. In this term alone, the high court has reversed seven opinions that Reinhardt has either written or been party to. These haven't been narrow reversals, either--all seven of them have been unanimous. Moreover, four other opinions in which Reinhardt had a hand--including his notorious conclusion that there is a constitutional right to physician-assisted suicide--are now pending before the court. In his many years on the bench, Reinhardt has proven himself one of those judges who view the Constitution as an infinitely malleable document in which myriad "rights" can be divined. He has ruled that farmers lack the standing to challenge the Endangered Species Act because they are motivated by "an economic interest." He has ruled that the use of police dogs to track down drugs or criminal suspects violates the Fourth Amendment (which protects against unreasonable searches and seizures). Decisions such as these have made him a revered figure of the legal Left--in 1987, the California Trial Lawyers named him "Appellate Judge of the Year." With every reversal, Reinhardt's image grows in the eyes of those who view him as a last, left-activist outpost.

13 posted on 11/03/2005 8:19:02 AM PST by andy58-in-nh
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To: Syco

That WMD expert will be pleased.


14 posted on 11/03/2005 8:27:58 AM PST by Loyal Buckeye
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To: patriot_wes

January 11, 2005:

http://headlines.agapepress.org/archive/1/112005d.asp
---
... Grady Arnold is a Southern Baptist pastor who heads "http://GetTheKidsOut.org/ ," a group that advocates a Christian exodus from public schools. He is openly critical of what he sees happening but says, unfortunately, many Christian pastors are afraid to speak out against anti-Christian discrimination in government-funded schools.
---


15 posted on 11/03/2005 8:53:10 AM PST by mvpel (Michael Pelletier)
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To: Syco

later pingout.


16 posted on 11/03/2005 10:06:46 AM PST by little jeremiah
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To: Syco

We sit here and declare our outrage and we all nod in agreement on this and many other topics.

What we need is not just a forum to vent, but a way to take some action.

Ideas?


17 posted on 11/03/2005 10:16:18 AM PST by IndyInVa (There needs to be less corruption. Or more opportunity for me to participate in it.)
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To: mvpel
"Grady Arnold is a Southern Baptist pastor who heads "http://GetTheKidsOut.org/ ," a group that advocates a Christian exodus from public schools. He is openly critical of what he sees happening but says, unfortunately, many Christian pastors are afraid to speak out against anti-Christian discrimination in government-funded schools."

That's because the churches have bought into being government puppets through their IRS 501(C)(3) status. Just wait. You ain't seen nothin yet!

18 posted on 11/03/2005 10:32:47 AM PST by patriot_wes (papal infallibility - a proud tradition since 1869)
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To: Syco

Makes me wonder who would be interested in what elementary school children have to say about sex anyways.

Last I checked, those 10 and under shouldn't have much of a reason to be concerned about sex.


19 posted on 11/03/2005 10:42:59 AM PST by JakeWyld (A little discipline. For my pet genius.)
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To: Syco
Well, if I was trying to raise Catholic children in the 9th Circuit, and if I had them in public schools, I'd be irate over this decision.

The Pontifical Counsel for the Family specifically assigns to parents the basic right and duty of sex education, in Truth and Meaning of Human Sexuality, in Sections 112-148.

A couple of excerpts:

It follows that any educative activity, related to education for love and carried out by persons outside the family, must be subject to the parents' acceptance of it and must be seen not as a substitute but as a support for their work. In fact, "Sex education, which is a basic right and duty of parents, must always be carried out under their attentive guidance whether at home or in educational centres chosen and controlled by them".

. . .

The rights of parents must be recognized, protected and maintained, not only to ensure solid formation of children and young people, but also to guarantee the right order of cooperation and collaboration between parents and those who can help them in their task.

------------------------------------

This decision ignores the basic rights of parents. It goes so far, in my opinion, to preclude the free exercise of religion by Catholics in public schools.

20 posted on 11/03/2005 10:52:19 AM PST by Kryptonite (McCain, Graham, Warner, Snowe, Collins, DeWine, Chafee - put them in your sights)
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To: albertp; Allosaurs_r_us; Abram; AlexandriaDuke; Americanwolf; Annie03; Baby Bear; bassmaner; ...
Libertarian ping.To be added or removed from my ping list freepmail me or post a message here
21 posted on 11/03/2005 11:04:03 AM PST by freepatriot32 (Holding you head high & voting Libertarian is better then holding your nose and voting republican)
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To: IndyInVa

That's why I posted it. I'm tired of talk. I want to see some action taken and I've lost faith in the government to do it. THEY ARE THE PROBLEM. I asked people to write their Senators and they should, but it can't end there. I have Feinstein and Loopy Boxer so it's pretty much a waste of my time, but the Congress has the power to impeach judges.

We MUST keep this stuff alive. The MSM will bury the story unless the Right makes a first class stink about it. The Blogs are a start but we can't let it end there. We need to throw some gasoline on the fire.

Apart from that, there are already some major developments in education that we should support. If we can get more Voucher programs to pass it will help by allowing parents to send their kids to more private schools. Also, there are full on networks of homeschoolers emerging all over the country. Groups of homeschooling parents who basically lean on one another to provide excellent educational resources to their kids. In the end you often find much better educated kids with the homeschooling option, although it's a major tax on a families time, and you can risk having kids who lack the social skills of their traditionally educated peers.

I guess the point is that we have to stop counting on the government in this area, just like we stopped counting on them in other areas long ago. Government is the problem today, almost as much as it was in 1776. Even in the classroom.


22 posted on 11/03/2005 11:13:45 AM PST by Syco
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To: Syco

The Senate is not where people should be sending their letters, but their local school boards. People should be running for seats on their local school boards, whether or not they have children in the school system.


23 posted on 11/03/2005 11:37:25 AM PST by mvpel (Michael Pelletier)
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To: Syco

Here is much more thorough article on the ruling.

http://www.metnews.com/articles/2005/fiel110305.htm


24 posted on 11/03/2005 11:45:35 AM PST by JeffAtlanta
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To: JeffAtlanta
From the article I just posted..
The district dropped the survey in 2002 amid complaints from parents, but several parents sued anyway.

This is important as the school system did respond to pressure from parents.

25 posted on 11/03/2005 11:48:01 AM PST by JeffAtlanta
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To: All
Here is a link to the text of the ruling. Just click on the Fields vs Palmdale link.

http://www.ca9.uscourts.gov/ca9/newopinions.nsf/Opinions+by+date?OpenView&Start=1&Count=100&Expand=1.1

Section I is quite interesting as it describes the events leading up to the complaints and lawsuit. It is also interesting to note that a consent letter was sent out to parents where parents could refuse to let their children take part in the survey.

There can be some debate whether the consent letter was informative enough for parents to make an informed decision. The consent letter does state that the goal of the survey is to determine a baseline for a child's exposure to trauma and lists 'violence' as an example. The form did not explicitly mention that sex related question may be asked.

The consent form also points out the question may make the child feel uncomfortable and the child would be referred to a counselor if that occurred.
26 posted on 11/03/2005 12:13:54 PM PST by JeffAtlanta
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To: patriot_wes

If there was any statement that is so on the mark that is the one you just made. I am waiting for the day when there is a law protecting gay marriage and the church will not be able to speak out for fear of losing their tax status and any money they can get from the government. God please protect us from evil and send down your mercy especially to our little ones. amen.


27 posted on 11/03/2005 12:55:58 PM PST by red irish (Gods Children in the womb are to be loved too!)
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To: Syco

The Nanny State has sprouted horns! Homosexual advocates must be elated with the implications of this decision.

It is for reasons just like this that home schooling has become the only option for many.


28 posted on 11/03/2005 1:05:39 PM PST by Amish with an attitude (An armed society is a polite society)
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To: Syco

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1514385/posts
Court says parents not sole providers of kids' sex education

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1514815/posts
Appeals Court Declares Parenthood Unconstitutional


29 posted on 11/03/2005 1:08:28 PM PST by Calpernia (Breederville.com)
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To: red irish

"I am waiting for the day when there is a law protecting gay marriage and the church will not be able to speak out for fear"

Sadly, Christians in Canada are dealing with this now.


30 posted on 11/03/2005 1:08:38 PM PST by Amish with an attitude (An armed society is a polite society)
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To: IndyInVa

"Ideas?"

Yes, the first order of business should be removing your children from public schools.


31 posted on 11/03/2005 1:23:31 PM PST by Amish with an attitude (An armed society is a polite society)
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To: JakeWyld

When I was in 6th grade the teachers told us we were lucky to live in America because if we lived in a Communist country we would be expected to give the govt reports on our parents and what goes on in our home.
Now the 6th grade teachers are having the children fill out questionnaires which basically asks them to report on their personal lives (i.e., what goes on with their parents and their families at home).
Guess we're not too far off from what the did "back in the USSR".


32 posted on 11/03/2005 1:37:17 PM PST by antceecee
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To: red irish
"I am waiting for the day when there is a law protecting gay marriage and the church will not be able to speak out for fear of losing their tax status and any money they can get from the government."

Coming soon to a church near you. It's already just across our northern borders where pasters are fined $2500 for just mentioning Romans 1:28 It's why I believe the last of the churches (Laodecia) is here and the true believers may soon be forced underground. Read Gen 3... Shalom

33 posted on 11/03/2005 6:42:19 PM PST by patriot_wes (papal infallibility - a proud tradition since 1869)
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To: JeffAtlanta
From your link:

In the absence of a fundamental right, the district’s survey needed only to be rationally related to a legitimate state interest to survive judicial scrutiny, Reinhardt said. Protecting the mental health of students and improving their ability to learn was a legitimate goal, he said, and it was not unreasonable for the district to think administering the survey would promote it.

This is where the judge erred, in my opinion. The schools are there to teach, not to give psychological studies to children.

34 posted on 11/03/2005 9:02:00 PM PST by tuesday afternoon
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To: Syco
A three-judge panel held the parents have a right to inform their children as they wish about sex

Now why in the world is that in the opinion?

35 posted on 11/03/2005 9:07:52 PM PST by tuesday afternoon
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