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WMD--THE DEMOCRAT BETRAYAL (EAT THIS HARRY REID! YOUR OWN PARTY SAID SADDAM HAD WMD BEFORE W. DID!)
Front Page Magazine ^ | 11/02/05

Posted on 11/03/2005 3:00:30 PM PST by MikeA

As I have often said (and resaid) the inexcusable element in the Democrats' attacks on their President in the midst of a war is that they are betraying a war they authorized in the first place. In the wake of Harry Reid's unhinged accusations the Republican National Committee has posted a collection of statements by Democratic Party leaders reminding us why we went to war.

DEM OFFICIALS HAVE WARNED ABOUT WMDs IN IRAQ FOR YEARS

Former President Bill Clinton:

President Clinton: "We Have To Defend Our Future From These Predators Of The 21st Century. They Feed On The Free Flow Of Information And Technology. They Actually Take Advantage Of The Freer Movement Of People, Information And Ideas. And They Will Be All The More Lethal If We Allow Them To Build Arsenals Of Nuclear, Chemical And Biological Weapons And The Missiles To Deliver Them. We Simply Cannot Allow That To Happen. There Is No More Clear Example Of This Threat Than Saddam Hussein's Iraq. His Regime Threatens The Safety Of His People, The Stability Of His Region And The Security Of All The Rest Of Us." (President Clinton, Remarks To Joint Chiefs Of Staff And Pentagon Staff, 2 /17/98)

President Clinton: "Earlier Today I Ordered America's Armed Forces To Strike Military And Security Targets In Iraq... Their Mission Is To Attack Iraq's Nuclear, Chemical And Biological Weapons Programs And Its Military Capacity To Threaten Its Neighbors ..." ("Text Of Clinton Statement On Iraq Attack," Agence France Presse, 12/17/98)

Former Vice President Al Gore:

Gore: "You Know, In 1991, I Was One Of Those Who Put Partisanship Completely Aside And Supported President Bush At That Time In Launching The Gulf War. And In That War, We Saw How Saddam Had Threatened His Neighbors And Was Trying To Get Nuclear Weapons, Chemical Weapons, And Biological Weapons. And We're Not Going To Allow Him To Succeed." (CNN's "Larry King Live," 12/16/98)

Gore: "[I]f You Allow Someone Like Saddam Hussein To Get Nuclear Weapons, Ballistic Missiles, Chemical Weapons, Biological Weapons, How Many People Is He Going To Kill With Such Weapons? He's Already Demonstrated A Willingness To Use These Weapons ..." (CNN's "Larry King Live," 12/16/98)

Sen. Hillary Clinton (D-NY):

Sen. Clinton: "I Voted For The Iraqi Resolution. I Consider The Prospect Of A Nuclear-Armed Saddam Hussein Who Can Threaten Not Only His Neighbors, But The Stability Of The Region And The World, A Very Serious Threat To The United States." (Senator Hillary Clinton [D-NY], Press Conference, January 22, 2003)

Sen. Clinton: "In The Four Years Since The Inspectors, Intelligence Reports Show That Saddam Hussein Has Worked To Rebuild His Chemical And Biological Weapons Stock, His Missile Delivery Capability, And His Nuclear Program. ... It Is Clear, However, That If Left Unchecked, Saddam Hussein Will Continue To Increase His Capability To Wage Biological And Chemical Warfare And Will Keep Trying To Develop Nuclear Weapons." (Sen. Hillary Clinton, Congressional Record, 10/10/02, p. S10288)

Sen. John Kerry (D-MA):

Sen. Kerry: "The Crisis Is Even More Threatening By Virtue Of The Fact That Iraq Has Developed A Chemical Weapons Capability, And Is Pursuing A Nuclear Weapons Development Program." (Sen. John Kerry, Congressional Record, 10/2/90, p. S14332)

Sen. Kerry: "If You Don't Believe ... Saddam Hussein Is A Threat With Nuclear Weapons, Then You Shouldn't Vote For Me." (Ronald Brownstein, "On Iraq, Kerry Appears Either Torn Or Shrewd," Los Angeles Times, 1/31/03)

Former Sen. John Edwards (D-NC):

Sen. Edwards: "Serving On The Intelligence Committee And Seeing Day After Day, Week After Week, Briefings On Saddam's Weapons Of Mass Destruction And His Plans On Using Those Weapons, He Cannot Be Allowed To Have Nuclear Weapons, It's Just That Simple. The Whole World Changes If Saddam Ever Has Nuclear Weapons." (MSNBC's "Buchanan And Press," 1/7/03)

Sen. Edwards: "The Question Is Whether We're Going To Let This Man [Saddam] Who's Been Developing Weapons Of Mass Destruction Continue To Develop Weapons Of Mass Destruction, Get Nuclear Capability, And Get To The Place Where If We're Going To Stop Him, If He Invades A Country Around Him, It'll Cost Millions Of Lives As Opposed To Thousands Of Lives." (MSNBC's "Hardball," 2/6/03)

Sen. Harry Reid (D-NV):

Reid: "The Problem Is Not Nuclear Testing; It Is Nuclear Weapons ... The Number Of Third World Countries With Nuclear Capabilities Seems To Grow Daily. Saddam Hussein's Near Success With Developing A Nuclear Weapon Should Be An Eye-Opener For Us All." (Sen. Harry Reid, Congressional Record, 8/3/92, p. S11188)

Sen. Evan Bayh (D-IN):

Bayh: "In My Opinion - And I Do, As You Know, I'm Fairly Hawkish On Iraq. I'm Inclined To Support Going In There And Dealing With Saddam. But I Think That Case Needs To Be Made On A Separate Basis - His Possession Of Biological And Chemical Weapons, His Desire To Get Nuclear Weapons, His Proven Track Record Of Attacking His Neighbors And Others." (CNN's "Late Edition," 8/4/02)

Bayh: "The Question Is, Do You Want Saddam Hussein Having Chemical Weapons, Having Biological Weapons, Possibly One Day Having A Nuclear Weapon? Do You Want To Have To Deal With That? And If The Answer Is No, Then What Do You Do About It And When Do You Do Something About It?" (CNN's "Live Event/Special," 12/1/01)

Sen. Joe Biden (D-DE):

Biden: "First Of All, We Don't Know Exactly What He Has. ... We Know He Continues To Attempt To Gain Access To Additional Capability, Including Nuclear Capability. There Is A Real Debate How Far Off That Is, Whether It's A Matter Of Years Or Whether It's A Matter Of Less Than That, And So There's Much We Don't Know." (NBC's "Meet The Press," 8/4/02)

Gov. Bill Richardson (D-NM):

Richardson: "The Threat Of Nuclear Proliferation Is One Of The Big Challenges That We Have Now, Especially By States That Have Nuclear Weapons, Outlaw States Like Iraq." (ABC's "Good Morning America," 5/29/98)

Former Sen. Bob Graham (D-FL):

Sen. Graham: "I Don't Know If I've Seen All The Evidence, But I've Seen Enough To Be Satisfied That There Has Been A Continuing Effort By Saddam Hussein Since The End Of The Gulf War, Particularly Since 1998, To Re-Establish And Enhance Iraq's Capacity Of Weapons Of Mass Destruction, Chemical, Biological And Nuclear." (CBS' "Face The Nation," 12/8/02)

Sen. Dick Durbin (D-IL):

Durbin: "One Of The Most Compelling Threats We In This Country Face Today Is The Proliferation Of Weapons Of Mass Destruction. Threat Assessments Regularly Warn Us Of The Possibility That North Korea, Iran, Iraq, Or Some Other Nation May Acquire Or Develop Nuclear Weapons." (Sen. Dick Durbin, Congressional Record, 9/30/99, p. S11673)

Sen. Russell Feingold (D-WI):

Feingold: "With Regard To Iraq, I Agree, Iraq Presents A Genuine Threat, Especially In The Form Of Weapons Of Mass Destruction, Chemical, Biological, And Potentially Nuclear Weapons. I Agree That Saddam Hussein Is Exceptionally Dangerous And Brutal, If Not Uniquely So, As The President Argues." (Sen. Russell Feingold [D-WI], Congressional Record, 10/9/05, p. S10147)

Sen. Bill Nelson (D-FL):

Nelson: "And My Own Personal View Is, I Think Saddam Has Chemical And Biological Weapons, And I Expect That He Is Trying To Develop A Nuclear Weapon. So At Some Point, We Might Have To Act Precipitously." (CNN's "Late Edition," 8/25/02)

Nelson: "Well, I Believe He Has Chemical And Biological Weapons. I Think He's Trying To Develop Nuclear Weapons. And The Fact That He Might Use Those Is A Considerable Threat To Us." (CNBC, "Tim Russert," 9/14/02)

Sen. Robert Byrd (D-WV):

Sen. Byrd: "The Last U.N. Weapons Inspectors Left Iraq In October Of 1998. We Are Confident That Saddam Hussein Retains Some Stockpiles Of Chemical And Biological Weapons, And That He Has Since Embarked On A Crash Course To Build Up His Chemical And Biological Warfare Capabilities. Intelligence Reports Indicate That He Is Seeking Nuclear Weapons ..." ("Threats And Responses," The New York Times, 10/4/02)

Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D-CA):

Pelosi: "Others Have Talked About This Threat That Is Posed By Saddam Hussein. Yes, He Has Chemical Weapons, He Has Biological Weapons, He Is Trying To Get Nuclear Weapons." (Rep. Nancy Pelosi, Congressional Record, 10/10/02, p. H7777)

Rep. Jane Harman (D-CA):

Harman: "I Certainly Think [Saddam's] Developing Nuclear Capability, Which, Fortunately, The Israelis Set Back 20 Years Ago With Their Preemptive Attack, Which, In Hindsight, Looks Pretty Darn Good." (Fox News' "The Big Story," 8/27/02)

Former Rep. Dick Gephardt (D-MO):

"Gephardt Said He's Seen 'A Large Body Of Intelligence Information Over A Long Time That He Is Working On And Has Weapons Of Mass Destruction. Before 1991, He Was Close To Having A Nuclear Device. Now, You'll Get A Debate About Whether It's One Year Away Or Five Or Six." (Morton M. Kondracke, "Gephardt Pushes Consensus Action Against Iraq Threat," Roll Call, 9/23/02)

Former Secretary Of State Madeline Albright:

Madeline Albright: "Iraq Is A Long Way From [Here], But What Happens There Matters A Great Deal Here, For The Risk That The Leaders Of A Rogue State Will Use Nuclear, Chemical Or Biological Weapons Against Us Or Our Allies Is The Greatest Security Threat We Face, And It Is A Threat Against Which We Must And Will Stand Firm." ("Secretary Of State Madeleine Albright, Secretary Of Defense William Cohen And National Security Adviser Sandy Berger Participate In Town Hall Meeting," Federal News Service, 2/18/98)


TOPICS: Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: democrats; democratsonwmd; harryreid; iraq; iraqwar; iraqwarfacts; iraqwarquotes; prewarintelligence; quotes; saddam; wmd; wmdiraq
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Though some of these quotes came during Bush's presidency, it needs to be pointed out that Democrats were saying Saddam had WMD long before W. Bush was. So what needs to be asked is, "How is Bush the liar about WMD if Democrats were saying Saddam had WMD long before Bush came along?"

The fact is, every top Democrat from Clinton on down said Saddam had WMD, when Bush was making the case that Saddam was a threat that needed to be reckoned with Democrats saw the same intelligence as Bush did and drew the same conclusion, that Saddam was undoubtedly armed with WMD.

And every Western intelligence agency including that of a socialist British Prime Minister, France, Germany and even Russia all thought Saddam had WMD. Putin even reiterated recently on "60 Minutes" that Russia was sure Saddam had WMD. So the "WMD" wasn't a lie. It was consensus.

So the only question that remains is what Saddam did with his WMD. Democrats and their seditious allies in the media aren't willing to ask that question, preferring instead to throw rocks at the president's integrity rather than asking why everyone thought he had them and yet they were gone when we got there.

And by the way, the Senate Intelligence Committee investigation on pre-war intelligence determined there was NO INTENTIONAL EFFORT TO DECEIVE NOR MANIPULATION OF THE INTELLIGENCE. So the Dems. can put away the simple-minded and slanderous "Bush lied" crap because at least 3 separate investigations have proven he did not. And the quotes provided above lend further evidence that Bush did not lie, but believed as everyone else did that Saddam had WMD.

1 posted on 11/03/2005 3:00:31 PM PST by MikeA
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To: MikeA

Demoncrats are liars.


2 posted on 11/03/2005 3:07:09 PM PST by nmh (Intelligent people believe in Intelligent Design (God).)
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To: MikeA

Keep on file for "Bush Lied" email chains I get.


3 posted on 11/03/2005 3:07:31 PM PST by misterrob
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To: MikeA

bump


4 posted on 11/03/2005 3:09:47 PM PST by GOPJ
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To: misterrob
Keep on file for "Bush Lied" email chains I get.

Good idea!

5 posted on 11/03/2005 3:10:22 PM PST by GOPJ
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To: misterrob

Forward to all your Email friends and enemies....Jake


6 posted on 11/03/2005 3:10:39 PM PST by sanjacjake
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To: MikeA

Good compilation of old news the MSM ignores.


7 posted on 11/03/2005 3:12:27 PM PST by TCats
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To: misterrob
Keep on file for "Bush Lied" email chains I get.

No. Each day, go to the DU site and post these. If we got a concerted effort, we can keep them tongue tied for a few seconds, maybe...

8 posted on 11/03/2005 3:14:27 PM PST by pageonetoo (You'll spot their posts soon enough!)
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To: MikeA

None of that matters a whit. The only things that matters are the lies. They must be repeated over and over.

The message is intended for the rabid semilliterate mass who barely knows what happened today much less several years ago.

The DNC mounts a humongous propaganda effort and Dingy Harry reads his script as directed.


9 posted on 11/03/2005 3:14:45 PM PST by bert (K.E. ; N.P . Chicken spit causes flu....... Fox News)
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To: pageonetoo
and Dickbrains Anonymous does not ban you for this??
10 posted on 11/03/2005 3:15:17 PM PST by God luvs America (When the silent majority speaks the earth trembles!)
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To: MikeA
...preferring instead to throw rocks at the president's integrity rather than asking why everyone thought he had them and yet they were gone when we got there.

Yep and not one of those D's had the nuts to do dick about it. If it was President Gore in 2001, God forbid, the WMD question might be more clear imho because instead of disappearing they'd be in use against American assets abroad, Israel and here CONUS at the hands of alQaeda

11 posted on 11/03/2005 3:16:36 PM PST by Horatio Gates (Stop the MSM...do it bloggie style.)
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To: God luvs America
...and Dickbrains Anonymous does not ban you for this??

I have no idea. I have never looked at it, much less posted there. But, I'm certainly willing to get banned from it...

12 posted on 11/03/2005 3:21:05 PM PST by pageonetoo (You'll spot their posts soon enough!)
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To: MikeA
Make the DEMOCRAPS wear their sh*t
13 posted on 11/03/2005 3:23:00 PM PST by Colonial Warrior (You can't tell how good a man or a watermelon is 'til they get thumped. Character shows when tested)
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To: MikeA
Excellent post, thank you!
14 posted on 11/03/2005 3:23:16 PM PST by angelsonmyside
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To: MikeA

It doesn't matter. The Bush-haters will continue to say Bush Lied, no matter what. Their word-artisans will pour it on.


15 posted on 11/03/2005 3:24:03 PM PST by KStorm (I resemble that remark!)
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To: Horatio Gates

"Yep and not one of those D's had the nuts to do dick about it."

You bring up an interesting point. The boilerplate DemoZombie reply to all these quotes showing Clinton and others were raising a warning voice about Saddam and WMD before Bush ever did is: "Well Clinton didn't start a war in Iraq, Bush did!" My standard reply to that is "So Clinton saw the self-same threat in Saddam's Iraq as Bush did yet Bush was the only one of the two willing to take bold action to end Saddam's threat and in this equation Clinton is the one who looks good in your warped mind?" They just usually reply with a blank stare.


16 posted on 11/03/2005 3:29:43 PM PST by MikeA
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Comment #17 Removed by Moderator

To: pro610

"Harry Reid is involved in the Mormon cult,they believe that satan and Jesus were brothers and that God had relations with Mary to Make Jesus.
In other words, He is a typical evil liberal!"

I don't think that bigoted comment has any place here. Reid's religion has nothing to do with his politics, and most Mormons are strong conservatives. Utah gave Bush the most support by percentage of any other state. I hope you will re-think your hatefulness, and your misrepresentation of Mormon doctrines.


18 posted on 11/03/2005 3:43:47 PM PST by MikeA
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To: MikeA

Don't forget UN resolution 1441. The UN in it's "infinite wisdom" knew there was threat but also failed to act. That'll get you more blank stares.


19 posted on 11/03/2005 3:52:53 PM PST by Horatio Gates (Stop the MSM...do it bloggie style.)
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To: MikeA
No Hatefulness here.
The Christian should always try to help the Mormon see the truth.
I,m just stating the Truth what Mormons believe.
Here is the Truth what the Mormons and Jehovah Witness believe.
http://www.carm.org/warning/warning.htm

Mormons are not Christians and not Conservative Christians that elected the president.
20 posted on 11/03/2005 4:09:47 PM PST by pro610 (Faith the size of a mustard seed can move mountains.Praise Jesus Christ!)
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To: MikeA
I don't think that bigoted comment has any place here. Reid's religion has nothing to do with his politics, and most Mormons are strong conservatives. Utah gave Bush the most support by percentage of any other state. I hope you will re-think your hatefulness, and your misrepresentation of Mormon doctrines.

Mike I hate to tell you this, but Momonism is a cult of deception and two evil con artist. There are some of the finest people in this nation involved in Mormonism unsuspecting of the ACTUAL history of why it is a cult.

I imagine if many Mormons investigated the history of the founder, the con artist that founded it, not many would follow this ruse masquarading as a religion.

I'm not going to desparage ANYONE that is a Mormon, but I will destroy it's tenents and false precepts!The question is, when you have a man like H Reid who doesn't care about what's right or truthfulness and is out to destroy another man based on evil lies and deceptive stunts like the founder of Mormonism committed, then I guess you have to at least wonder where H. Reid gets his values from?

21 posted on 11/03/2005 4:21:44 PM PST by sirchtruth (Words Mean Things...)
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To: MikeA
So what needs to be asked is, "How is Bush the liar about WMD if Democrats were saying Saddam had WMD long before Bush came along?"

This is a Rat talking point and it has been repeated so often that a lot of Americans believe it and won't listen to the truth even if you try to jam it into their ear! You can thank Michael Moore, Howard Dean, Err America, the entire MSM for this LIE, which is just one of many going around today. Even Jimmie Carter is pontificating on this today, he is also on the dark side (no surprise there since he is a Rat). It is full speed ahead to get to IMPEACHMENT.

22 posted on 11/03/2005 4:29:23 PM PST by p23185
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To: pro610

"Mormons are not Christians and not Conservative Christians that elected the president."

I would suggest that you go look up the definition of Christian in any dictionary, which is any devoted follower of Christ who accepts Christ as the literal Son of God and as Savior. Mormons most assuredly believe that.

"Christian" does not mean someone who believes in every particular point of doctrine as evangelical Protestants believe which is how you define the term Christian. I think it is sad how you and other evangelicals have hijacked the term "Christian" and turned it into a weapon and a blunt instrument of your arrogance rather than what it was always meant to be, a symbol of devoted and loving discipleship of the Savior. The term Christian to me always signified love. It never signified prejudice and exclusion as you use it. Shame on you and those who trained you to think that way.

It shows a fundamental insecurity in the confidence you have in your own beliefs that you feel the need to tear down the beliefs of others. And before you become so self-assured in the truthfulness of what you believe, let me remind you that many secular types would point to what you believe as being "fairy tales" and "myth," wielding science, history and even archaeology and anthropology to make you look foolish and simple for believing in the Bible.

So in the end, faith is what determines what we believe now doesn't it, as does a witness from God's Spirit. I don't need the unbridled hubris of others, whether either secularists or sectarians, to tell me what's right and what's wrong in what I hold sacred because I've accessed the divine in ways they never have to learn the truth of what I believe. Therefore, science nor naysayers have no power nor impact over my faith. My faith comes from God, not from the unenlightened.

And by the way, I don't need your distorted propandistic website to tell me what Mormons believe. I happen to be one and I have studied deepely the dissembling that goes on in the anti-Mormon screeds that are published. They are shamelessly dishonest. I would no more rely on your deceptive website to tell me what Mormons believe than I would rely on Moveon.org to tell me about the Republican party.

And you are quite wrong, Mormons are conservative and did help elect Bush. Without Utah and without a lot of conservative Mormons providing a margin of difference for Bush in close swing states like New Mexico and Nevada, we would have President Kerry right now.

So can we get back to the main point of the thread which was the Democrats and their lying about WMD rather than the boilerplate and tired Mormon bashing that goes on here at FR any time anything about Mormons are mentioned? It makes me ashamed to associated with some of you for being so small.


23 posted on 11/03/2005 4:40:02 PM PST by MikeA
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To: sirchtruth

"The question is, when you have a man like H Reid who doesn't care about what's right or truthfulness and is out to destroy another man based on evil lies and deceptive stunts like the founder of Mormonism committed, then I guess you have to at least wonder where H. Reid gets his values from?"

I have to disagree with the full content of your post. When you study the LDS faith and read and pray for yourself to know the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon, then I will accept that you have learned of the LDS faith from someone other than an agendized pastor out to preserve his livelihood. And I will accept that you can dismiss it aa a "Cult," a silly boilerplate scare tactic term with no basis in reality.

Until then I must say you have never attempted to learn of the LDS faith in a balanced and fair way relying on what others have told you rather than what your own heart, mind, and soul would tell you about it, to say nothing of the Spirit of the Lord were you to ask. You have learned of the Mormon faith in the same way some Democrats come to learn of Republican/conservative views by relying on Moveon.org and Michael Moore.

As to your comment above about Harry Reid, nothing in what I know about the LDS faith justifies Reid's lying and perfidy. Honestly, there are cads and reprobates in every religion are there not?? To somehow claim Harry Reid tarnishes the entire LDS faith, or says something about it, is intellectually dishonest in the extreme. Shall I hang your Protestant faith by Bill Clinton's sorry example and his amorality and say he learned it from Protestantism and that his dishonesty is a typically Protestant trait?? See how unfair that is? Few Mormons I know agree with Harry Reid and certainly most do not share his politics.

Finally, I would invite you to read a balanced history of the founder of Mormonism, Joseph Smith, called "Rough Stone Rolling." Richard Bushman, the author, is an esteemed historian and his work is being praised as balanced and fair by historians both in and outside of the LDS faith. No one ever said Joseph Smith was perfect. Bushman's book shows he was a man with follies and failings like any other. But the work he performed is one that is practically unassailable when you look at it in a balanced and fair manner, even more so when you ask for the Spirit of God as a confirming witness.

I could point out to you the follies and imperfections of many holy men in the Bible, whether Moses, Aaron, David, Peter, Paul, etc. But all were men of God who did his will. Often imperfect before their discipleship and certainly imperfect and failing at times after, their humaness in no way negated their sacred mission and the truthfulness of what they purported to be.

So look into the LDS faith for yourself. Ask God for his Spirit to guide you. Don't rely on what the agendized and biased tell you to believe any more than you'd rely on George Soros or Michael Moore to tell you about George Bush or Republicans. Look for yourself and your eyes will be opened. Mine were. I know you can realize that promise for yourself.

And that is all I will have to say about that until you can show me you've attempted to learn of the LDS faith by going to the source, rather than relying on the propaganda of others dispensed to preserve their congregations and their paychecks.


24 posted on 11/03/2005 4:53:45 PM PST by MikeA
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To: misterrob

Yeah, but the reply from those idiots will be, "But they didn't start a war" like that's a good thing.

I usually retort back, "yeah, because they are cowards and never care about protecting the American people".


25 posted on 11/03/2005 4:54:15 PM PST by Fledermaus (For years Rush has said the left would really go off the deep end once out of power. He was right!)
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To: pageonetoo

what we should do is continually fax and e-mail this to the lib papers and tv networks..the hell with the DU...


26 posted on 11/03/2005 5:06:39 PM PST by God luvs America (When the silent majority speaks the earth trembles!)
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To: MikeA
***"I would suggest that you look up the definition of Christianity in any dictionary"***
Who cares what the dictionary says, The Bible says If you deny that Jesus is God you are not a Christian.
The Mormons deny the trinity and believe there are three separate God,s

On the topic of WMD,s ,I believe there were WMD,s In Iraq and I believe that King Abdullah along with the Russians and the French moved them to other places in the Middle East(Syria,Iran,Jordan etc...).
King Abdullah became very popular after 911 especially in the Muslim world,He is uniting the Muslim,s in the Middle east in the name of Peace.Muslim Unity means one thing only,it means the destruction of Israel and the enemy of Christianity.
27 posted on 11/03/2005 5:07:35 PM PST by pro610 (Faith the size of a mustard seed can move mountains.Praise Jesus Christ!)
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To: MikeA

The Democrats were saying it to make it look like they cared.

They had no intention of doing squat about it.


28 posted on 11/03/2005 5:09:41 PM PST by TASMANIANRED (Conservatives are from earth. Liberals are from Uranus.)
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To: MikeA

Jam it down the throats of the press and the Liberals. They can no longer get away with LIES!!!!!!!

It is a beautiful day!


29 posted on 11/03/2005 5:14:06 PM PST by gathersnomoss
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To: MikeA
So look into the LDS faith for yourself. Ask God for his Spirit to guide you.

This is the red herring of Mormonism.

Why don't you ask yourself who Joseph Smith was and all the cons, and false prophecies he promoted only to find the ruse to line his pockets with parishoner's money...

Just another gold digging, con artist.

Btw, I go to God thru Jesus Christ and he doesn't require that I go thru any religion or faith to worship God. God only requires that I go thru his son, not Joseph Smith, who lied about being a prophet of God.

30 posted on 11/03/2005 5:24:20 PM PST by sirchtruth (Words Mean Things...)
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To: MikeA
So look into the LDS faith for yourself.

Why study a religion that relies on trickery?

You have secret undergarments, and temple ceremonies. God doesn't hide His truth. It has been revealed, in the form of Jesus, the Messiah. He completed the work.

Sorry, if you feel wounded, by the truth, but my God is a jealous God. Your faith in Joseph Smith, and his promises of future godhood are anathema to Him...

You say:"I could point out to you the follies and imperfections of many holy men in the Bible, whether Moses, Aaron, David, Peter, Paul, etc. But all were men of God who did his will. Often imperfect before their discipleship and certainly imperfect and failing at times after, their humaness in no way negated their sacred mission and the truthfulness of what they purported to be."

Indeed they were all fallable men, but they conveyed a single message, about the mission, and purpose of Jesus. Your church has bastardized him, and made Him into something less than the Truth, thqt He alone is God. Your church teaches you that you will be a god. Good luck trying to pull that one off. Lucifer tried it, and you see what it got him...

Sorry, friend, but those that follow this apostasy, will surely die in this apostasy, no matter what your stake leader promises. You can quote your church doctrine all you wish. I prefer the Scriptures. There is no need of a newer revelation. There are no records of any golden tablets, or Urim and thummin, glasses and breast plates to allow you to secretly decode them. Snake oil.

I don't need to read a biography of JS, to see asnake oil saalesman at work! You speak of propaganda, and then spout the party line by chapter and verse. It just happens to be out of the wrong book!


31 posted on 11/03/2005 5:38:45 PM PST by pageonetoo (You'll spot their posts soon enough!)
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To: sirchtruth
"I'm not going to desparage ANYONE that is a Mormon, but I will destroy it's tenents and false precepts!"

Leave the Mormons alone!!! They are not hurting you. They have EVERY RIGHT to believe as they do. Just as you have every right to believe as you do. I get so sick of people picking on the Mormons. I also get sick of Christians calling denominations other than their own cults. HOW DARE YOU!!!!! HOW DARE YOU!!!! I hope the next Mormon you insult kicks your ^%$# and tells you to BUTT OUT of his business.

32 posted on 11/03/2005 5:40:42 PM PST by Hound of the Baskervilles
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To: sirchtruth

PS. I am not a Mormon. But if I was, I would give you a piece of my mind. Wait, I just did. And you deserve it.


33 posted on 11/03/2005 5:42:34 PM PST by Hound of the Baskervilles
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To: pro610
Here is a simple piece of scripture that proves the Mormons are wrong.

John 20:26-28
A week later,the disciples were once more in the room,and this time Thomas was with them.Despite the locked doors Jesus came and stood before them."Peace be with you" he said,then to Thomas;
"Take your finger and examine my hands.Put your hand into my side.Do not persist in your unbelief,but believe!"
Thomas said in response,"My Lord and My God!

Was Thomas lying when he called Jesus his God?
If Thomas is lying is the Bible a lie?

Thomas was not lying and the Bible is not a lie.
The Mormons are lying and misleading people from the truth of the Trinity.
34 posted on 11/03/2005 5:44:12 PM PST by pro610 (Faith the size of a mustard seed can move mountains.Praise Jesus Christ!)
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To: MikeA

Post #34 was for you,I sent it to myself by mistake


35 posted on 11/03/2005 5:49:16 PM PST by pro610 (Faith the size of a mustard seed can move mountains.Praise Jesus Christ!)
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To: MikeA
Why do you let him insult you like that? You don't have to take a lecture from him or from anybody. I have had it with Fundies trying to lecture me. (I am a Catholic, the Catholic Church is a cult too supposedly. ) I don't take it anymore. I tell them to SHUT the hell UP and mind their own bloody business. I tell them they are wasting their time and mine.

Trying to be nice or to explain your beliefs does no good at all. They are not going to change and you are not going to change. It is a big hassle for nothing.

36 posted on 11/03/2005 5:54:02 PM PST by Hound of the Baskervilles
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To: Hound of the Baskervilles

Hi Hound, you are right. I give them the privilege of one reply and then I am done with them. I appreciate your "stuff it down their throat" approach. They deserve it. I just like to give them the privilege of one substantive reply to show them how silly and bigoted they are then I go my way. I know it won't change anything, but hey, I like knowing I took the high road to their low road and showed them the illogic of their thinking. As you say, the "cult" label has gotten tiresome. It's the hallmark of the unthinking and of the small minded. I doubt they even know the true meaning and derivation of the word. Anyway, why people can't worship God and allow others the same privilege without having to be ugly and to tear down what's sacred to others, or to lie about it, is beyond me. And they do this all the while hypocritically accusing others of being unChristian. I am certain God will make them answer for it. Anyway, thanks for the support.


37 posted on 11/03/2005 6:06:18 PM PST by MikeA
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To: sirchtruth

"Btw, I go to God thru Jesus Christ and he doesn't require that I go thru any religion or faith to worship God. God only requires that I go thru his son, not Joseph Smith, who lied about being a prophet of God."

I go through Joseph Smith for nothing other than to learn more about Jesus Christ just as I do in accessing the writings of prophets in the Bible. I guess you don't read the Bible huh since you don't need holy men to teach you anything? But ultimately they are all only a means to end to me, in learning what they learned of God and Jesus Christ and using that to help me draw closer to both. Unlike you, I guess I'm not so arrogant to think I have all the answers or can know all there is to know about God and His Son and don't need His word as given through prophets to help me learn more.

You label my call to pray to know the truth of LDS teachings "the great red herring of the LDS church." How is accessing God's truth through prayer a "red herring?" ISn't that the very essence of Christian faith, to learn God's will through prayer and study and then to do it?? How is that a "red herring?" This is the central message of the LDS faith and it threatens you and others like you because you fear it, that men can know the truth for themselves of the LDS faith through accessing the Lord's Spirit.

The real red herrings are all the deceptions, misrepresentations and outright slanders you throw up against the LDS church to throw people off the path of learning of the truth for themselves by accessing God's Spirit. I have done so and have an absolute witness of the truth of what I believe. That qualifies me far more than you to speak of God's hand in the LDS faith. Until you can say you've done gone to the Lord on bended knee in sincere desire to know the truth, your mischaracterizations of the LDS faith are meaningless to me, and your increasing anger shows me whence is the source of such slanders.

But it's much easier to use non sequitors like dismissing the idea that man can go to God to learn the truth of all things as being a "red herring" than to actually put in the effort, right?? It's much easier to just be dismissive than have to face the fear that you may be wrong, and thus be found to have been fighting against God. Until you bother to go to the source to learn of the truth of LDS teachings, I really have nothing more to say to you especially seeing as you have no respect for the sacred beliefs of others in the really unchristian manner you attack them.


38 posted on 11/03/2005 6:18:37 PM PST by MikeA
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To: Hound of the Baskervilles

No ,the Catholic Church is not a Cult.
The Catholic Church also opposes the Mormons false faith.
I,ll give you the Vatican documents if you want them?


39 posted on 11/03/2005 6:22:09 PM PST by pro610 (Faith the size of a mustard seed can move mountains.Praise Jesus Christ!)
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To: Hound of the Baskervilles
Here is info from Vatican and the Bible
http://www.zenit.org/english/archive/0107/ZE010717.htm#8188

Being a Christian also means telling people the TRUTH.
40 posted on 11/03/2005 6:32:10 PM PST by pro610 (Faith the size of a mustard seed can move mountains.Praise Jesus Christ!)
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To: MikeA

Do you think Thomas was lying when he called Jesus "God" in John 20:28?

There is only one right answer you know.
Thomas was telling the truth.


41 posted on 11/03/2005 6:40:21 PM PST by pro610 (Faith the size of a mustard seed can move mountains.Praise Jesus Christ!)
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To: pro610
"The Catholic Church also opposes the Mormons false faith. I,ll give you the Vatican documents if you want them?"

I know they do. They "oppose" (if that is the right word) the Protestant faith too. So what? I don't take it to mean I have to proselytize every Protestant I meet or every Mormon or every Jew. It sure does not mean you have to insult people. And it certainly does not mean that the target of your proselytizing can't RIGHTFULLY tell you to shut up and mind your own business.

My denomination and why I have chosen it is NOT anyone's business unless I decide otherwise.

42 posted on 11/03/2005 6:40:51 PM PST by Hound of the Baskervilles
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To: MikeA
"Until you bother to go to the source to learn of the truth of LDS teachings, I really have nothing more to say to you especially seeing as you have no respect for the sacred beliefs of others in the really unchristian manner you attack them."

Right on!!!

43 posted on 11/03/2005 6:43:08 PM PST by Hound of the Baskervilles
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To: MikeA
"Anyway, why people can't worship God and allow others the same privilege without having to be ugly and to tear down what's sacred to others, or to lie about it, is beyond me."

I don't get it either.

"And they do this all the while hypocritically accusing others of being unChristian. I am certain God will make them answer for it. "

The first time someone told me my denomination was a cult I was so insulted and angry!!! What terrible manners! How impolite! Who the hell do these people think they are!! What nerve!!

"Anyway, thanks for the support."

You're welcome.

44 posted on 11/03/2005 6:50:03 PM PST by Hound of the Baskervilles
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To: Hound of the Baskervilles
The Catholic Church does not oppose Protestant,s from a Salvation viewpoint.
You don,t know what your talking about.

The Mormons are very good people who believe that they can achieve Salvation thru good works,the Muslims also believe the same thing.
At least the Mormons have some knowledge of the Bible and can be lead to the truth by people pointing to scripture to set them on the right path towards Salvation.
45 posted on 11/03/2005 7:14:25 PM PST by pro610 (Faith the size of a mustard seed can move mountains. Praise Jesus Christ!)
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To: Hound of the Baskervilles

"The first time someone told me my denomination was a cult I was so insulted and angry!!! What terrible manners! How impolite! Who the hell do these people think they are!! What nerve!!"

There's is truth and beauty in all faiths. To just trample on that truth and beauty, and what's sacred and divine to others, is antithetical to everything I know about Jesus Christ and his teachings. I grew up Catholic and my entire family is still Catholic. I really cherish and honor my Catholic background. It gave me the foundation of faith from which I operate today. I later became LDS, but that doesn't in any way diminish Catholicism or the Catholic faith or say anything bad about the church. It's just for me what I found in the LDS Church spoke to me and gave me what I was looking for in my life. So I too am insulted to see Catholics and Catholicism held up to derision by the ignorant and mean.


46 posted on 11/03/2005 7:50:21 PM PST by MikeA
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To: MikeA
Please show us where in the Bible it says John Smith has the authority as a prophet of God to deny that Jesus Christ is God in the flesh???
47 posted on 11/03/2005 8:35:12 PM PST by pro610 (Faith the size of a mustard seed can move mountains. Praise Jesus Christ!)
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To: MikeA

This should be added to all Government HS curriculums.


48 posted on 11/03/2005 8:35:52 PM PST by Whitewasher (Would u like America to be a goat nation in the millennium to come? Keep pushing the "Roadmap" bull!)
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To: MikeA; ntnychik; devolve; PhilDragoo; bitt; Boazo; Lady Jag; Smartass

49 posted on 11/03/2005 8:39:12 PM PST by potlatch (Does a clean house indicate that there is a broken computer in it?)
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To: MikeA; holdonnow; Kenny Bunk; Laura_Ingraham; doug from upland; Blurblogger

here's another link to keep, an old article but very rimely...

http://www.nationalreview.com/murdock/murdock010603.asp

Dems Need a Houseclean
No innocents.
By Deroy Murdock

Even with Trent Lott (R, Miss.) relegated to the Senate's backbenches, Democrats want the issue of Republicans and race front and center.


"How can they jump on [Lott] when they're out there repressing, trying to run black voters away from the polls and running under the Confederate flag in Georgia and South Carolina?" Bill Clinton wondered on CNN December 18. "I mean, look at their whole record. He just embarrassed them by saying in Washington what they do on the back roads every day."

Senator Hillary Clinton (D., New York) said two days later, "If anyone thinks that one person stepping down from a leadership position cleanses the Republican party of their constant exploitation of race, then I think you're naive."

Incoming House Democratic leader Nancy Pelosi of California added: "The Republican party still needs to do much more to remove the issue of race and any of its symbols from our political process."

Before lecturing Republicans, Democrats should mop up their side of the political spectrum.

Bill Clinton, for starters, approaches this matter in mud-soaked boots. As NewsMax.com recalled on December 22, then-Governor Clinton was among three state officials the NAACP sued in 1989 under the federal Voting Rights Act of 1965. "Plaintiffs offered plenty of proof of monolithic voting along racial lines, intimidation of black voters and candidates and other official acts that made voting harder for blacks," the Arkansas Gazette reported December 6, 1989. It added: "the evidence at the trial was indeed overwhelming that the Voting Rights Act had been violated."

A three-judge federal panel ordered Clinton and Arkansas's then-Attorney General Steve Clark and then-Secretary of State William J. McCuen to redraw electoral districts to maximize black voting strength.

During his 12-year tenure, Governor Clinton never approved a state civil-rights law. However, he did issue birthday proclamations honoring Confederate leaders Jefferson Davis and Robert E. Lee. He also signed Act 116 in 1987. That statute reconfirmed that the star directly above the word "Arkansas" in the state flag "is to commemorate the Confederate States of America." Arkansas also observed Confederate Flag Day every year Clinton served. The governor's silence was consent.

Arkansas' former governor, the late Orval Eugene Faubus, attended Bill Clinton's 1979 gubernatorial inauguration, where the two pols hugged, as Arkansas Democrat-Gazette editorial page editor Paul Greenberg recalls. Faubus, of course, resisted the integration of Little Rock's Central High School in 1957. He actually deployed National Guard soldiers to bar nine black students from entering. Republican President Dwight Eisenhower dispatched soldiers from the 101st Airborne Division to break that logjam and give the black teens a fighting chance to learn. Clinton once lauded that same Faubus as a "man of significant ability."

Just this fall, Clinton praised Arkansas' late Democratic senator J. William Fulbright, a notorious segregationist who opposed the 1964 Civil Rights Act and the 1965 Voting Rights Act. He also signed the Southern Manifesto, which denounced the U.S. Supreme Court's landmark Brown vs. Board of Education school desegregation decision in 1954. Clinton called Fulbright "My mentor, a visionary, a humanitarian."

But even with that record, Bill Clinton is Rosa Parks compared to his party's most senior senator. Until the 108th Congress convenes tomorrow, Robert Byrd (D, W.V.) remains the Senate's president pro tempore, the third in the line of presidential succession behind Vice President Dick Cheney and House Speaker Dennis Hastert (R, Illinois). Byrd, who also chairs the Senate Appropriations Committee, joined the Ku Klux Klan in 1942 at age 24. He resigned in 1943. But in 1946, he wrote this to the KKK's Imperial Wizard: "The Klan is needed today as never before and I am anxious to see its rebirth here in West Virginia."

Bryd was elected to West Virginia's House of Delegates that year. In 1947, he criticized the military's proposed integration. In a letter to segregationist senator Theodore Bilbo (D, Miss.), Byrd said he would "never submit to fight beneath the banner [the American flag] with a Negro by my side. Rather I should die a thousand times, and see Old Glory trampled in the dirt never to rise again, than to see this beloved land of ours become degraded by race mongrels, a throwback to the blackest specimen from the wilds."

Byrd filibustered against the 1964 Civil Rights Act, joining Albert Gore Sr. and 19 other Democrats (and only four Republicans) in voting against that groundbreaking legislation. He fought Thurgood Marshall's Supreme Court nomination before becoming Senate Democratic leader from 1977 to 1989.

Byrd says he regrets his Klan membership. As a December 23 Wall Street Journal editorial noted, Byrd urged young Americans in 1997 to pursue public life. However, "Be sure you avoid the Ku Klux Klan. Don't get that albatross around your neck. Once you've made that mistake, you inhibit your operations in the political arena."

Byrd was a buzzard on the March 4, 2001 edition of Fox News Sunday. Asked about race relations, Byrd told host Tony Snow: "There are white niggers. I've seen a lot of white niggers in my time. I'm going to use that word." He apologized and said, "The phrase dates back to my boyhood and has no place in today's society."

Byrd will appear next February in the $51 million Warner Brothers Civil War epic, Gods and Generals. Although he is age 84, Byrd will portray Confederate general Paul J. Semmes, who owned at least a dozen slaves. He was badly wounded at Gettysburg and died July 10, 1863 at age 48.

Byrd's Senate colleague, Ernest Hollings (D, S.C.), meanwhile, told reporters on December 14, 1993 that he attended international summits alongside "these potentates from down in Africa." He continued, "rather than eating each other, they'd just come up and get a good square meal in Geneva." There also would be no debate today about flying the Confederate flag over South Carolina's statehouse had then-governor Hollings not defiantly hoisted it above the state capitol in 1962.


(read more...it's terrific!)


50 posted on 11/03/2005 9:04:49 PM PST by bitt ("..the very obsession of your public service must be Duty, Honor, Country." Gen. Douglas MacArthur)
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