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Jihadism and denial--the benevolence that is at the heart of Islam
Jewish World Review ^ | 11-4-05 | Diana West

Posted on 11/04/2005 5:55:17 AM PST by SJackson

"We in America know the benevolence that is at the heart of Islam," declared Condoleezza Rice, addressing assembled Muslim dignitaries at the annual Ramadan dinner at the State Department — and provoking a second, consecutive examination in this column of the rhetoric of the most important US official next to the president.

The secretary of state's annual Ramadan dinner at the State Department is not to be confused with the president's annual Ramadan dinner at the White House, although it's easy to get mixed up. The legacy of September 11 has left us with: an open-ended war abroad; the introduction of homeland hyper-insecurity; and the open-ended introduction of Ramadan celebrations all over official Washington. Which is worth a question or two on its own, beginning with: "Why"? Why has it become the post-September 11 function of the U.S. government to celebrate Ramadan? The buzzword of "Muslim outreach" comes to mind, but, as the Judeo-Christian culture hit by Islamikazes on September 11, haven't we got it exactly backward? That is, wouldn't Muslims better outreach themselves if the Saudi Embassy, for example, celebrated Christmas and Hanukah?

But I digress. Getting back to Miss Rice's shindig, Ramadan wouldn't be Ramadan without Nihad Awad, the executive director of the notorious Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR). His invitation alone deserves separate mention — and maybe an investigation into whether security concerns arose over bringing into the State Department someone from a Hamas-linked group boasting five current or former officials arrested, convicted or deported on terrorism-related charges. Oh well. In the holiday spirit, let's just recall, as bestselling author Robert Spencer did at www.jihadwatch.com, the words of CAIR's former board chairman, Omar Ahmad: "Islam isn't in American to be equal to any other faiths, but to be dominant."

(Excerpt) Read more at jewishworldreview.com ...


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1 posted on 11/04/2005 5:55:18 AM PST by SJackson
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To: dennisw; Cachelot; Yehuda; Nix 2; veronica; Catspaw; knighthawk; Alouette; Optimist; weikel; ...
If you'd like to be on this middle east/political ping list, please FR mail me.

..........................................

2 posted on 11/04/2005 5:57:14 AM PST by SJackson (God isn`t dead. We just can`t talk to Him in the classroom anymore, R Reagan.)
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To: SJackson

Christians and Jews need look no further than the Temple Mount to see the benevolence at the heart of Islam. I challenge Ms Rice to visit the rock atop Mt Moriah where Abraham prepared to offer Isaac in sacrifice to God...and to carry her Bible with her when she does.


3 posted on 11/04/2005 5:59:37 AM PST by silverleaf (Fasten your seat belts- it's going to be a BUMPY ride.)
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To: SJackson

..."We in America know the benevolence that is at the heart of Islam," declared Condoleezza Rice,..

Idiot.


4 posted on 11/04/2005 6:00:16 AM PST by the gillman@blacklagoon.com (Ugh!)
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To: SJackson

I would not have been able to stand up there and spout this bunch of BS.


5 posted on 11/04/2005 6:05:28 AM PST by Piquaboy (22 year veteran of the Army, Air Force and Navy, Pray for all our military .)
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To: SJackson

"the benevolence that is at the heart of Islam"

If only we would have had such dinners celebrating Nazi-ism, I'm sure WWII could have been averted. /S


6 posted on 11/04/2005 6:07:34 AM PST by BadAndy (Unnecessarily harsh)
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To: the gillman@blacklagoon.com

When you're trying to establish a democracy in a Muslim country, it probably kind of helps if your public rhetoric about Muslims stresses the positive.

Do you think it would help our mission in Iraq if Rice called Islam an evil death cult?

Think about it.


7 posted on 11/04/2005 6:10:16 AM PST by fragrant abuse
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To: the gillman@blacklagoon.com
..."We in America know the benevolence that is at the heart of Islam," declared Condoleezza Rice,...

She couldn't have read the Koran and come to that conclusion.

Moderate Muslims are to me, people who don't understand the basic tenets of their own religion and apparently haven't read the Koran through. Also there is a reluctance on some Muslim's part to get blood on their hands. - Tom

8 posted on 11/04/2005 6:11:51 AM PST by Capt. Tom (Don't confuse the Bushies with the dumb Republicans - Capt. Tom)
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To: SJackson

On the menu in Washington is the Saudis favorite dish: Wahhabi Rice.


9 posted on 11/04/2005 6:13:14 AM PST by Sabramerican (Islam is to Peace as Rape is to Love)
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To: SJackson

It's unfortunate about Condi, I used to think of her as the Hillary-antidote - no more.

It even calls into question her entire tenure as NSA. Either that or it's hard for me to believe that she believes anything she says that is pro-Islam.

Either way, it's not good. I wonder if she realizes that this kind of rhetoric is sealing her fate as a Republican, and that she has no chance of getting elected as a Dem.


10 posted on 11/04/2005 6:13:42 AM PST by wvobiwan (Proud Minuteman Project Volunteer - Secure borders, illegals OUT, no 'guest workers'!)
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To: fragrant abuse

...Do you think it would help our mission in Iraq if Rice called Islam an evil death cult?...

The truth shall set you free.

Lying to yourself will turn you French.


11 posted on 11/04/2005 6:13:55 AM PST by the gillman@blacklagoon.com (Ugh!)
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To: SJackson

Yeah, I wonder how much longer our official position will be to pretend that Islam isn't really at war against western civilization.


12 posted on 11/04/2005 6:14:41 AM PST by Kenton (Muslims want to play by "girls' rules")
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To: SJackson
But her soft-soap routine comes across as supplication, not statecraft.

Actually, it comes across as appeasement.

I think someone put pods under Condi's and W's beds...


13 posted on 11/04/2005 6:26:34 AM PST by Dark Skies ("A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants." -- Churchill)
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To: SJackson

Some how the deafening silence from the Muslim world we heard after 9-11, the lack of any responce to video taped murders of innocent civilians done in the name of Islam and the luke warm apologies for homicide bombings better show the true benevolence that is at the heart of Islam.


14 posted on 11/04/2005 6:33:52 AM PST by The Great RJ ("Mir wölle bleiwen wat mir sin" or "We want to remain what we are." ..Luxembourg motto)
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To: fragrant abuse

STOP IT! You're ruining a perfectly good bash Islam thread for everyone.


15 posted on 11/04/2005 7:02:21 AM PST by Valin (Purgamentum init, exit purgamentum)
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To: fragrant abuse

"Japanese are great pilots" -FDR at the annual Death March dinner, White House, Dec, 1943.

In that parallel universe of yours.


16 posted on 11/04/2005 7:08:10 AM PST by Sabramerican (Islam is to Peace as Rape is to Love)
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To: fragrant abuse
Do you think it would help our mission in Iraq if Rice called Islam an evil death cult?

Do you think it is?

17 posted on 11/04/2005 7:14:10 AM PST by Dark Skies ("A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants." -- Churchill)
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To: Capt. Tom

Moderate Muslims are to me, people who don't understand the basic tenets of their own religion and apparently haven't read the Koran through.

http://www.arabsforisrael.com/pages/1/index.htm

http://www.mideastweb.org/salah01.htm

http://www.infid.be/nurcholis_madjid.htm

http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1477166/posts

http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1488432/posts


18 posted on 11/04/2005 7:18:27 AM PST by Valin (Purgamentum init, exit purgamentum)
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To: Valin
I don't know if you like Tony Blankley, but he nails it here regarding the U.S.'s position on Islam...

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1514039/posts?page=49#49
19 posted on 11/04/2005 7:22:44 AM PST by Dark Skies ("A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants." -- Churchill)
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To: Valin

I wouldn't characterize this as a "good" Islam bashing thread. It's just passable. The good threads have pictures of the WTC and beheadings and Paris burning and dead Israelis and burnt to a crisp American contractors in Iraq and .....

I won't even get into the really good and great threads.


20 posted on 11/04/2005 7:25:08 AM PST by Sabramerican (Islam is to Peace as Rape is to Love)
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To: Valin

Ok. Those dozen people are excluded.

Lets return to the other Millions.


21 posted on 11/04/2005 7:27:20 AM PST by Sabramerican (Islam is to Peace as Rape is to Love)
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To: Valin

Sorry. Will get with the program.

NUKE 'EM ALL!

Is that better?


22 posted on 11/04/2005 7:30:07 AM PST by fragrant abuse
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To: Valin
After reading the Koran I have the same interpretation as Zarqawi and bin Laden.

Those examples you sent me are examples of Muslim heretics who collaborate with the infidels.(Hey that's us!) - tom

23 posted on 11/04/2005 7:30:07 AM PST by Capt. Tom (Don't confuse the Bushies with the dumb Republicans - Capt. Tom)
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To: Dark Skies

Islam seems to do very well at creating lots and lots of twisted psycho-fascist murdering lunatics. I say kill 'em all. And fast.

But if I really thought the whole bunch were irredeemable psychos then I would hardly support a war launched to set them free, would I?

Do you support our mission in Iraq?


24 posted on 11/04/2005 7:34:26 AM PST by fragrant abuse
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To: fragrant abuse

Guess what? The War was not launched to set anyone free. The war was launched to fight an enemy. The presumption when the war started that it was the beginning of dominos falling. None of that has happened or will happen.

You and Bush can both wait for some sort of Democracy - that Americans recognize- happening in Iraq. I'll buy a Lotto ticket and wish just as hard. My odds of winning are better.


25 posted on 11/04/2005 7:44:10 AM PST by Sabramerican (Islam is to Peace as Rape is to Love)
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To: fragrant abuse; Valin
When you're trying to establish a democracy in a Muslim country, it probably kind of helps if your public rhetoric about Muslims stresses the positive...Do you think it would help our mission in Iraq if Rice called Islam an evil death cult?...Think about it.

As to establishing democracy, I think she'd do a great deal of good by acknowledging that terrorist groups like Hamas, Islamic Jihad, and the al Aska Martyrs Brigade (Fatah) are not appropriate participants in the democratic process. Failing in that simply encourages groups like al Qaida and the Muslim Brotherhood offshoots who, per US policy, should have been represented in the process. That aside, an expanded al Qaida presence in Gaza and the Sinai endangers Iraq. And Egypt.

As to benevolence, perhaps she could temper her remarks. Personally I don't think most Americans who think about Islam, most don't, consider it benevolent. This is a serious problem for the benevolent Muslims, all the invitees I assume, who risk being tarred by the actions of the presumably few non-benevolent ones. Perhaps she could have suggested we ALL have to loudly condemn jihadism, benevolent Muslims included.

26 posted on 11/04/2005 7:45:59 AM PST by SJackson (God isn`t dead. We just can`t talk to Him in the classroom anymore, R Reagan.)
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To: fragrant abuse
Do you support our mission in Iraq?

Yep, and then some. I don't think Condi should have dissed all muslims but I found her reference to Islam as "benevolent" strange. I think she could have found a better description without insulting peoples all over the world who suffer at the hands of this benevolent religion.

There are many fine muslims in the world, but Islam has the heart of Mohammed...and he wasn't benevolent.

I actually think we are in WWIII (or WWIV depending on how one counts) and the enemy is Islamic jihad. There may come a day when muslims are placed in internment camps (just as were innocent German and Japanese citizens were in WWII). That doesn't exactly fit with Condi's use of the word "benevolent."

27 posted on 11/04/2005 7:51:58 AM PST by Dark Skies ("A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants." -- Churchill)
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To: SJackson
all the invitees

If history is any guide, 25%, at least, actively or passively support terrorists and several will be indicted within three years.

The State Dept will then disavow any knowledge that the smiling gentlemen next to Rice in the group hug picture is the Al Quida regional commander for the American Southwest.

28 posted on 11/04/2005 7:53:50 AM PST by Sabramerican (Islam is to Peace as Rape is to Love)
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To: Sabramerican
If history is any guide, 25%, at least, actively or passively support terrorists and several will be indicted within three years.

Giving the State Dept the benefit of the doubt. As the author points out, some of these people shouldn't be anywhere near government officials. Saudis excluded, of course, as future employers.

29 posted on 11/04/2005 8:04:33 AM PST by SJackson (God isn`t dead. We just can`t talk to Him in the classroom anymore, R Reagan.)
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To: SJackson

Relax people - As Sec of State - Condi has to say BS like this.

I find it amazing she is able to do so with a straight face.


30 posted on 11/04/2005 8:06:46 AM PST by TheShaz (Shhhh! We don't want Dean run off yet!!!)
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To: TheShaz
Condi has to say BS like this.

Really? Why? What happens if she stops lying? Chirac lies all the time about Islam. Much good it is doing France.

31 posted on 11/04/2005 8:10:28 AM PST by Sabramerican (Islam is to Peace as Rape is to Love)
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To: SJackson

Perhaps she could have suggested we ALL have to loudly condemn jihadism, benevolent Muslims included.

Agree with that 100 per cent. My point is that sometimes you have to use rhetoric to win your battles. I think some of the comments here assume that Condi is somehow a big fan of Islam when all she's doing is making nice noises in order to make our job in a Iraq a little easier. That's just smart politics.


32 posted on 11/04/2005 8:10:49 AM PST by fragrant abuse
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To: SJackson
No, Dr. Rice is not an idiot. And yes, there is a great deal of benevolence at the heart of Islam. Anyone who has read the Qura'n and pretends otherwise hasn't read it at all. There is also a good deal that is not benevolent.

The difficulty with this is that nearly all of the benevolence is directed inward - charity is one of the Five Pillars, for instance, but it applies only toward other Muslims. And those restrictions specified for outward violence - forcible conversion never being applied to "peoples of the Book," i.e. Christians and Jews and in some interpretations, Zoroastrians - are largely ignored by Islam as it is practiced today.

It's a classic dichotomy - do you consider Islam as the theoretical structure built over the centuries by thousands of ulema? If so you must admit that there are many admirable aspects. Or do you consider it as the motivation behind fanatics who murder and the source of an inveterate and undying hostility directed at the non-Muslim? It is that as well.

Only one of those two interpretations is inherently non-benevolent. Unfortunately it's the one trying to kill us. It's that one we're having to deal with. It's the one that is being so heavily funded by oil and the one whose adherents are, in fact, currently driving the religion. Can the West live in peace with Islam? It did for a very long time - from a position of strength. Can the West live with the Islamists? I do not think so. They're actually going to have to be killed in numbers that will make their power over the people they've parasitized diminish to the non-threat it has been in the past. I'm not being particularly blood-thirsty here or acting as yet another keyboard commando. They're actually going to have to be killed or they will kill us.

In the long term I think it is oil funding that will prove the Islamists' Achilles heel. It doesn't take a great deal of cannon fodder to continue a low-level terrorism war, as we are finding in Iraq. It does take money.

33 posted on 11/04/2005 8:11:34 AM PST by Billthedrill
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To: Sabramerican

"The War was not launched to set anyone free. The war was launched to fight an enemy."

The two ends are not mutually exclusive. On the contrary, our victory depends on exporting freedom. As Blair said (a lib, but a smart one), "The spread of freedom is the best defense for the free" - something like that anyway.


34 posted on 11/04/2005 8:14:05 AM PST by fragrant abuse
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To: fragrant abuse

You will find- to our sorrow- that fighting a war while being nice to enemy sympathizers will win neither the war nor the sympathizers hearts and minds.


35 posted on 11/04/2005 8:17:30 AM PST by Sabramerican (Islam is to Peace as Rape is to Love)
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To: Dark Skies

"I think she could have found a better description without insulting peoples all over the world who suffer at the hands of this benevolent religion."

That's fair comment.


36 posted on 11/04/2005 8:19:24 AM PST by fragrant abuse
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To: Sabramerican

OK. Let's agree to disagree about the wisdom of the Iraq war. I take it that you did not support it? Or at least, don't now?

I'm curious, though - if trying to spread democracy won't stop Islamofascist terrorism, what strategy do you suggest?


37 posted on 11/04/2005 8:25:35 AM PST by fragrant abuse
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To: fragrant abuse

I supported the war with a hope that my fears would not be realized. But I predicted the current situation as soon as I knew my faint hope that we would tackle the source- Saudi Arabia and Iran- would not be realized.

It is no secret to how to win a war. It's been done before. You start with knowing you're at war. You don't appease the enemy. You don't fight terrorists and hold hands with the Saudis. You don't fight terrorists in one arena and give them Gaza and more in another. You do what you have to do. You spread Democracy- after the war is won. You do what the US did in Japan post WWII.

If France is teaching us anything today it is the consequence of continuing on the present course.


38 posted on 11/04/2005 8:39:23 AM PST by Sabramerican (Islam is to Peace as Rape is to Love)
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To: Billthedrill; TheShaz; fragrant abuse
TheShaz: Relax people - As Sec of State - Condi has to say BS like this.

fragrant abuse: I think some of the comments here assume that Condi is somehow a big fan of Islam when all she's doing is making nice noises in order to make our job in a Iraq a little easier.

Perhaps I’m the only person on FR who doesn’t consider pandering part of the Secretary of States job description. White House, fine, but State should be there to represent American interests, period.

In that vein, let me note that the White House already had a Ramadan dinner. Why a second at State? To my knowledge State doesn’t do that for the holidays of other faiths. Isn’t that a defacto recognition that Islam is, in fact, a world political force? And as a political force, Islam isn’t benevolent. Do you really think terrorist

Billthedrill: Only one of those two interpretations is inherently non-benevolent. Unfortunately it's the one trying to kill us. It's that one we're having to deal with.

As I noted above, this is the State Dept., not the WH entertaining the American Muslim community. From that perspective I don’t think we should be concerned about Islam at all, other than their actions on the world stage, as you note the one trying to kill us

39 posted on 11/04/2005 8:55:17 AM PST by SJackson (God isn`t dead. We just can`t talk to Him in the classroom anymore, R Reagan.)
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To: Sabramerican

"You don't fight terrorists and hold hands with the Saudis."

That's fair. I agree that we will have to eventually confront the Saudis and other states that nurture Islamofascism. But I thought - still do - that it's a tall order to take them on all at once. And I think the administration always knew, even before 9/11, that the Saudis needed to be dealt with but that we were constrained by our reliance on their oil. Taking out Saddam and getting Iraq - home to the world's second-largest oil reserves - was just part of the strategy. We need stable, plentiful alternative oil supplies coming out of Iraq before we can really confront the Saudis, militarily or otherwise.


40 posted on 11/04/2005 9:04:27 AM PST by fragrant abuse
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To: SJackson

"State should be there to represent American interests, period."

Encouraging Iraqis to feel good about America is in America's interests. That's all she was doing.


41 posted on 11/04/2005 9:06:51 AM PST by fragrant abuse
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To: SJackson

Oh, my God. Let Condi Rice say this to Nicholas Berg's parents, or Daniel Pearl's widow. Islam, the ROP. Gag me with a spoon.


42 posted on 11/04/2005 9:20:03 AM PST by hershey
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To: the gillman@blacklagoon.com

Of course, Condi might have been indulging in sarcasm, but probably not.


43 posted on 11/04/2005 9:20:45 AM PST by hershey
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To: Valin

Moderate Muslims are unicorns.


44 posted on 11/04/2005 9:22:03 AM PST by hershey
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To: SJackson

bttt


45 posted on 11/04/2005 9:36:07 AM PST by dennisw (You shouldn't let other people get your kicks for you - Bob Dylan)
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To: fragrant abuse
Encouraging Iraqis to feel good about America is in America's interests. That's all she was doing.

Her remarks are here.

She mentions Katrina.

The earthquake in Pakistan.

Rosa Parks.

The rights of Muslims throughout the world to practice their religion, ironically to an audience which included diplomats from states which deny that right to Christians and Jews. That might be irrelevant had she not spent 20% of her remarks commenting on America’s history of denying basic human rights to blacks. IMO that would have made for a perfect tie in.

While I presume there were Iraqis in the audience, how you conclude the speech was about Iraq is beyond me.

46 posted on 11/04/2005 10:19:20 AM PST by SJackson (God isn`t dead. We just can`t talk to Him in the classroom anymore, R Reagan.)
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To: hershey
Oh, my God. Let Condi Rice say this to Nicholas Berg's parents, or Daniel Pearl's widow. Islam, the ROP. Gag me with a spoon.

I linked her speech in 46. A reasonable response by a Muslim diplomat to your question would be that blacks were lynched in America within our lifetime. Finish cleaning your own house first.

47 posted on 11/04/2005 10:23:11 AM PST by SJackson (God isn`t dead. We just can`t talk to Him in the classroom anymore, R Reagan.)
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To: SJackson

I've said this already so I'll keep it short:

We're trying to build a democracy in a Muslim country with a vicious, violent minority that wants us to fail. Having our politicians talk positively about Islam can only help us succeed. Talking negatively about it will help us fail.

She may not have mentioned Iraq - but Iraqis and Muslims across the ME are, obviously, an intended audience for these kind of remarks.

It ain't rocket science. And I'm very glad you're not Secretary of State.

Enough already.


48 posted on 11/04/2005 10:31:04 AM PST by fragrant abuse
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To: dennisw; hershey
One of my favorite State Dept. websites.

Muslim Life in America, encouraging immigration. It doesn't seem to me we need to encourage immigration, plenty of people want to come here as it is. That aside, I suppose the site would be OK if there was a Christian Life in America site. Jewish Life in America? Hispanic Life in America, Hindu Life in America, Athiest Life in America, Voodoo Life in America, I can't find any of those.

49 posted on 11/04/2005 10:32:17 AM PST by SJackson (God isn`t dead. We just can`t talk to Him in the classroom anymore, R Reagan.)
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To: wvobiwan
re: I wonder if she realizes that this kind of rhetoric is sealing her fate as a Republican, and that she has no chance of getting elected as a Dem.)))

76% of US Jews voted for the anti-Israel prez candidate. A handful of conservative Jews, with the evangelicals, cannot hope to stem this shift against Israel.

The tide is turning against Israel. We badly needs those liberal US Jews if US support for Israel is to continue. -

50 posted on 11/04/2005 10:40:09 AM PST by Mamzelle (.)
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