Posted on 11/04/2005 9:44:55 PM PST by nickcarraway
Republican Senators who voted for increasing immigration 33% need to lose their seats in coming elections.
You don't need a CS degree or a double-E to be a good software developer. You do need training and experience, and I would be more than happy to introduce you to dozens of people who had more experience, better qualifications, and a much better understanding of the business than the H-1B that replaced them. Unfortunately they didn't have that fourth qualification which overrode all others, a considerably lower salary. So they had to go.
Supply and demand, competion, capitalism working.
I don't think its true that H-1B visas have 'shrunk the American market in software programers'. In fact, your comments seems to strenghten my position even more. For our national security we need the best programmers in the world coming here. (not our companies going there - outsourcing etc..)
Yes, give them security clearences in the most careful way possible.
Damn them all to hell! Lousy traitorous dastards! I'm already competing at minimal margins with the current crop of Indian and Russian slave labor. There are hundreds of thousands of Americans out of work in the fields these H1B visas are used for. I've know people willing to work and bid down their wages.
No, just the market for Amercian software programmers.
For our national security we need the best programmers in the world coming here.
We had the best programmers in the world. A lot of them are selling used cars and wearing Home Depot aprons thanks to H-1Bs.
Yes, give them security clearences in the most careful way possible.
Wouldn't it just be easier to send the programming work to India or China? Business is and they claim to be saving a bundle. Why shouldn't government?
I've hired several software developers for my company for different projects. I got burned the first time with a young fresh out of school developer. Now I don't even speak to you unless you've been in the field for a minimum of 8 years.
There is no substitute for experience. Time is money, and I don't have time to develop programmer skills for the new kid. Good companies will bring their people up slow and not give them too much room to screw up.
One would think so. But in corporate America today experience counts for squat. H-1Bs are provided at a cheaper rate. They aren't better technically, they aren't better educated, they're just cheaper. I got tired of trying to break in the H-1B that the outsourcing vendor provided us with. They could code like crazy, but had absolutely no understanding of the business or the customers or the applications we had in place. The U.S. programmers who did know the business, who understood the customers, and who had been supporting the applications for years were expendable. Now you can't find a U.S. programmer for love nor money.
This is exactly what is happening. I see it right now at work. I work for a big, well known by size and color "American Icon" company. I've seen hyper-advanced projects done for the most sensitive areas of U.S. Government get shipped offshore because for some inexplicable reason, the project wasn't given a "controlled" designation (like "ITAR" or "Classified").
All it takes is for a project to somehow skip proper classification, and suddenly a huge technology transfer goes out to our countries enemies. It makes me sick.
"We had the best programmers in the world. A lot of them are selling used cars and wearing Home Depot aprons thanks to H-1Bs."
I don't believe this to be true.
"Wouldn't it just be easier to send the programming work to India or China? Business is and they claim to be saving a bundle. Why shouldn't government?"
This is my point. If we restrict the best and brightest from coming here then companies will just go there. By opposing increasing H-1B Visas you are increasing outsourcing. I don't think it is prudent to outsource top secret defense deprartment programing jobs. Which is why we must bring the best programmers here.
What do you have a problem believing? That American programmers were the best in the world? Or that a lot of them have been driven out of their chosen profession by cheaper H-1B competition?
By opposing increasing H-1B Visas you are increasing outsourcing.
Nonsense. H-1B promotes outsourcing. What do you think these companies are bringing them here for?
I don't think it is prudent to outsource top secret defense deprartment programing jobs.
What you and I think on the matter is of no importance to those running large corportations. Did you know that each precision guided munition in the military's arsenal requires a battery to power the guidance system? And did you know that there is a single supplier for those batteries? And did you know that they moved their manufacturing facility to China? After that what's a few Chinese programmers among friends?
Which is why we must bring the best programmers here.
Why couldn't we just keep the U.S. born programmers that we had? Why did we have to import them?
"U.S Labor laws require an employer to attest through a long a tedious process that no American is available and willing to take a job."
U.S. Labor Laws !! LOL !!
You have no idea to what has been going on with these H1B visa program the past years. Or are just one of the people abusing the system to line your pockets on the backs of cheap imported labor. It`s one or the other.
We are NOT talking about "immigrants", we are talking about "temporary workers" , being brought into this country to do work cheaper than what an American worker will do the work for. Oh, it started out to fill a shortage in an industry, but morphed into a prostitution system for cheap labor.
The people are not here to become "citizens", they are here to work and then go home after their visa`s expire ( which many of them don`t do, and end up being here illegally ). These people are not "immigrants" ! This is the thing you need to understand.
The visa system on paper is one thing, the reality of the system is another. The prevailing wage, was thrown out the window years ago, the trying to hire an American first was also thrown out years ago as well. Loopholes have been made to appease business in getting these workers into their mix. The government looks the other way and does not regulate the program, period.
It has gotten to the point where its not even about the cheap labor anymore, its about control. Business can control an imported worker with all authority because the imported worker can be sent home on a whim by the company. They are completely at the mercy of their so called host, and they know it. Its like having your own little slave worker, only you can`t whip them when they get out of line, but you can put them on a plane and send them back to their hellhole of a country if they don`t do as you say.
You need to read the posts from people who have had their lives savaged by this program , and livelyhoods stolen from them because some politician wants a campaign contribution.
I have seen it firsthand myself, so I know a little about it.
For someone who spouts about government not regulating hiring practices of business and protectionism, you sure don`t have a problem with government helping an industry do it with this visa program !!!
Very good analysis.
BTW the H1B come here to become "Citizens" none of them want to go back....
"BTW the H1B come here to become "Citizens" none of them want to go back...."
I would say you`re probably correct.
This whole "guest worker" visa program is just a slave trade in my opinion. We should get rid of it. If there is a need for workers in this country, let people come here to take the jobs and become citizens, I have no problem with that at all.
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