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Paris seeks "hidden hands" in riots ("They think Islam equals bin Laden.")
Reuters ^ | Nov 5th 2005 | Reuters

Posted on 11/05/2005 8:34:14 AM PST by Eurotwit

AULNAY-SOUS-BOIS, France (Reuters) - With every night that France's rundown suburbs burn, officials grow increasingly convinced that drug traffickers and Islamist militants are using frustrated youths to challenge law and order here.

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Many people who watch their cars, shops and schools go up in flames, however, are not buying it. They blame unemployment, racial prejudice and widespread youth boredom for the outbursts.

Finding "hidden hands" behind the unrest seems like trying to catch the rioters as they rampage through the night. Some may get caught, but far more slip away in the darkness.

"Everybody is fed up seeing our town and our district trampled over daily by these organized gangs," declared Gerard Gaudron, conservative mayor of the northeastern Paris suburb of Aulnay-sous-Bois after an hour-long march against violence.

If the police don't crack down on these "hooligans," the embattled Interior Minister Nicolas Sarkozy has warned, "who would give the orders? The mafias and the fundamentalists."

Fouzi Guendouz doesn't agree. "I don't think that's the real reason. It was just an excuse for kids to trash things," said Guendouz, 20, a French-born business student of Algerian origin.

"The politicians blame it on Islamists because the French are afraid of this religion. They think Islam equals bin Laden."

"Whoever knows who's behind this should come here and say it openly," shouted a defiant man in a Muslim prayer cap. "The problem is there's nothing for youths to do here."

Ahmed Hamidi, a white-bearded Moroccan electrician long resident in France, had no patience with politicians in Paris, which lies hardly an hour away but seems like another planet.

"All the politicians care about are laws for homosexuals and all those immoral things," he fumed. "They are against headscarves, against beards and against the mosques.

THEORY VERSUS REALITY?

Aulnay-sous-Bois was calm overnight, but there were still many charred cars and delivery vans along the way as the "march against violence" snaked in between the faded housing blocks.

Acrid smoke still rose from the smoldering ruins of a large carpet and floor covering depot set ablaze by arsonists two days ago. Deep in an isolated industrial zone, the depot was clearly the target of arsonists who went out of their way to hit it.

The growing frequency of attacks like this, in contrast to the car and trash hopper blazes set by marauding youths earlier in the unrest, prompted Paris prosecutor Yves Bot to join the officials blaming the rioting on organized gangs.

"This is done in a way that gives every appearance of being coordinated," he told Europe 1 radio. "For the moment, we see there is a movement against official institutions but it does not seem to be taking an ethnic or religious turn."

Another student in Aulnay-sous-Bois, Jeremie Garrigues, 19, doubted this was the case. "If those kids had been organized, they would have done much worse -- they would have used guns and bombs against town hall and the prefecture," he argued.

"Those are all politicians' theories," remarked an Algerian woman named Samia, whose main concern was how frightened her children were by the unrest. "We live here in reality."

NICE CARS AND EXPENSIVE PHONES

It's only on the fringes of the march, out of earshot of the multi-cultural crowd of concerned residents, that anybody tries to reconcile the opposing explanations.

"I'm sure there are drug dealers and Islamic radicals at work," said a middle-aged woman who requested anonymity. "Drugs are everywhere. They've arrested Islamic radicals nearby here."

A social worker who also withheld his name said some rioters seemed linked to the drug trade because they "drive nice cars and use mobile telephones I couldn't afford to buy.

"When the government is determined to fight this underground economy, there's bound to be resistance," he said. "There is no headquarters organizing this, but they seem to be coordinating their activities among themselves by phone."

The charge that Islamist radicals were trying to exploit the unrest was a difficult one for local Muslims to handle, he said, because many were working to prevent unrest and admitting there were radicals in the crowds would discredit their community.

"They can't say that, so they don't say anything," he added.


TOPICS:
KEYWORDS: burnbabyburn; flockofbarbarians; france; franceriots; frankistan; frenchmuslims; parisriots
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1 posted on 11/05/2005 8:34:15 AM PST by Eurotwit
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To: Eurotwit

This must be costing Billions of Euros in france and across Europe.


2 posted on 11/05/2005 8:36:15 AM PST by cripplecreek (Never a minigun handy when you need one.)
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To: Eurotwit
--anybody else out here old enough to remember Charles DeGaulle and "Algeria es Francias"--
3 posted on 11/05/2005 8:38:43 AM PST by rellimpank (urbanites don' t understand the cultural deprivation of not being raised on a farm:NRABenefactor)
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To: Eurotwit
Al-Reuters at it again. Rather than report it's the Muslims who are causing the trouble, they try to contradict the few French folks who have figured out what the problem really is.
4 posted on 11/05/2005 8:40:07 AM PST by don'tbedenied ( D)
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To: Eurotwit
Ahmed Hamidi, a white-bearded Moroccan electrician long resident in France, had no patience with politicians in Paris, which lies hardly an hour away but seems like another planet.

"All the politicians care about are laws for homosexuals and all those immoral things," he fumed. "They are against headscarves, against beards and against the mosques.

Egad. How un-PC. Where's French-looking John Kerry when you need him to explain the disaffection of multi-cultural French citizen Ahmed Hamidi?

5 posted on 11/05/2005 8:40:38 AM PST by TheGeezer
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To: Eurotwit
"All the politicians care about are laws for homosexuals and all those immoral things," he fumed. "They are against headscarves, against beards

Homophobic hippies?

6 posted on 11/05/2005 8:40:42 AM PST by RightWingAtheist (Free the Crevo Three!)
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To: don'tbedenied

All that whine and cheese have reduced the collective French IQ.


7 posted on 11/05/2005 8:41:17 AM PST by bonfire (dwindler)
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To: Eurotwit

It wouldn't surprise me if higher ups were organizing this, maybe not Bin Laden but Al Quaeda forces.


8 posted on 11/05/2005 8:42:30 AM PST by x5452
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To: Eurotwit

". . .to challenge law and order here."

Challenge? It appears they have cornered
the bullfighter and are preparing to castrate
him if the bullfighter does not start protecting
his cojones.


9 posted on 11/05/2005 8:42:46 AM PST by righttackle44 (The most dangerous weapon in the world is a Marine with his rifle and the American people behind him)
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To: Eurotwit

Well, it could be BOTH, you know. I guess the French are not familiar with the term 'catalyst'.


10 posted on 11/05/2005 8:43:00 AM PST by jwpjr
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To: Eurotwit

Well, in the past the French shown a certain proclivity to bloodbaths as the means of social organization (Commune in 1871, French Revolution, or war in Algeria). Resorting to this expedient now may have a very salutary effects, too.


11 posted on 11/05/2005 8:44:24 AM PST by GSlob
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To: Eurotwit
Interesting article. Other recent news articles have claimed that the riots have nothing to do with Islam. but with the poverty of those areas where the riots take place. However, it is would be surprising if drug traffickers and radical Islamists were not taking advantage of what initially probably was spontaneous riots.

Note also the conflict that will take place when leftist PC culture meets Islamic immigration.
12 posted on 11/05/2005 8:45:14 AM PST by ScaniaBoy (Part of the Right Wing Research & Attack Machine)
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To: Eurotwit
"blame unemployment, racial prejudice and widespread youth boredom for the outbursts"

That's never the cause. France is right to look for the "hidden hands" because things like this are ACTIVELY PROMOTED.

I lived through the LA/Rodney King riots. The organizers actually had LA blocked out in grids where they set every other block aflame. The punks on the street are just the minions.

13 posted on 11/05/2005 8:45:20 AM PST by GVnana
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To: Eurotwit

Yay..

I managed singlehandedly to make "flockofbarbarians" appear on the most popular keyword list...

OK.. I need a life ;-)


14 posted on 11/05/2005 8:45:33 AM PST by Eurotwit (WI)
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To: Eurotwit

At least organized enough to begin the assaults
AFTER sundown. So where do these "kids" go at
dawn? Home to Mom and Pop's digs? Do they
sleep in the parks? Where is their food
coming from?
After THREE days of this, I'd have labeled them
Mad Dogs run amok, hauled out enough police/
military ammo to do some real damage, and let
the "kids" see some REALITY...their friends'
dead bodies.


15 posted on 11/05/2005 8:46:41 AM PST by Grendel9 (uick)
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To: Admin Moderator

Oh,

I see you are deleting it...

I appologize..


16 posted on 11/05/2005 8:48:13 AM PST by Eurotwit (WI)
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To: ScaniaBoy

Personally I expect that this may cause a split between leftists in Europe and America. It might give the euroleft a different perspective as they watch thier socialist taxes go up in flames.


17 posted on 11/05/2005 8:48:20 AM PST by cripplecreek (Never a minigun handy when you need one.)
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To: Eurotwit
Careful examination of his name proves that Bush is behind these riots

BUSH - RUSH- RUST- MUST- MOST- MOOT- ROOT- RIOT

18 posted on 11/05/2005 8:50:56 AM PST by syriacus (Youthful angst of "Bowling for Columbine" + political passion of "Fahrenheit 9/11" = MOOLIGANs)
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To: don'tbedenied

Reuters = BS

Too stupid to realize their heads will be among the first to roll.

France should "borrow" a couple of MOABs.


19 posted on 11/05/2005 8:52:00 AM PST by auboy (Spoiled brats should not be senators, and senators should not be spoiled brats)
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To: RightWingAtheist
"All the politicians care about are laws for homosexuals and all those immoral things," he fumed.
Do the leftist pro-gay pro-Islamic PC brigades in the west realize that they hang homosexuals in Iran... and might start doing it in France if they catch them in the streets?

What's a PC pro-gay pro-Islamic leftist to do?

20 posted on 11/05/2005 8:55:50 AM PST by samtheman
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To: x5452

Well, he did tell Mohammedans to rise up everywhere and undertake Jihad.


21 posted on 11/05/2005 8:57:19 AM PST by Sometimes A River (Your hands and feet are mangoes, but you're gonna be a genius anyway)
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To: Eurotwit

I just now listened the 1600UTC RFI broadcast. Their reporter still blames the riots on the deaths of the 2 "youths," isolation and poverty. Violence is reported spreading to Rennes, Nice, Toulouse and Lilles. No mention of what, if anything, the French government intends to do.


22 posted on 11/05/2005 8:57:56 AM PST by cloud8
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To: Eurotwit
"The problem is there's nothing for youths to do here."

They could try to memorize the whole Koran. Alternatively, they could build a raft, and float back to Algeria. If all else fails, they could practice being French.

23 posted on 11/05/2005 8:58:28 AM PST by LurkedLongEnough
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To: x5452
Indeed. This is terrorism, just a different method.
Something just doesn't add up about what they've been saying about the dirt bags doing this. How can be so poor and uneducated according to MSM, yet be so organized to continue to evade law enforcement. These muslims have a leader or network telling them what to do.
24 posted on 11/05/2005 9:03:59 AM PST by miliantnutcase
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To: LurkedLongEnough

They could clean up their neighborhoods, get an education, help little old ladies.


Just what are they burning, anyway?

If the neighborhoods didn't support it, they'd be turning in these hooligans.


25 posted on 11/05/2005 9:10:25 AM PST by From many - one.
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To: Eurotwit

As we watch France being flushed down the toilet, I hope the rest of the left-leaning Euro countries are taking notes...

I guess I should include the left-leaning PC multi-culturist multilingual pacifists in the good old US of A.


26 posted on 11/05/2005 9:11:21 AM PST by CommandoFrank (Peer into the depths of hell and there you will find the face of Islam...)
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To: Eurotwit

You're in good "hidden hands" with Islam.


27 posted on 11/05/2005 9:17:23 AM PST by Crawdad (So the guy says to the doctor, "It hurts when I do this.")
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To: Grendel9

---After THREE days of this, I'd have labeled them
Mad Dogs run amok, hauled out enough police/
military ammo to do some real damage, and let
the "kids" see some REALITY...their friends'
dead bodies.---

I agree. The feared explosion of violence would be preferable to being seen as toothless old women. The thugs are taking over.


28 posted on 11/05/2005 9:28:41 AM PST by claudiustg (Go Bush! Go Sharon!)
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To: cripplecreek
This must be costing Billions of Euros in france and across Europe.

No price is too high for my amusement.

29 posted on 11/05/2005 9:30:50 AM PST by Psycho_Bunny (Base. All Yours = Mine.)
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To: Eurotwit
"Finding "hidden hands" behind the unrest seems like trying to catch the rioters as they rampage through the night. Some may get caught, but far more slip away in the darkness. "

There absolutely are "hidden hands" using local malcontents and those with their own causes as pawns in protests and riots against Western civilization around the world.

Is anyone so naive as to think that the protests going on in South America right now against President Bush are just a spontaneous expression by a bunch of locals without any outside organization and financing?

Believe that, and the liberal media has some swamp land you may be interested in investing in.

30 posted on 11/05/2005 9:42:37 AM PST by TheClintons-STILLAnti-American
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To: Eurotwit; zot; Interesting Times

From: General Choltwitz's ghost
To: Der Fuehrer's ghost

Mine Fuehrer, although it is 61 years after your order, Paris is (finally) burning.


31 posted on 11/05/2005 9:47:37 AM PST by GreyFriar (3rd Armored Division -- Spearhead)
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To: samtheman
"Do the leftist pro-gay pro-Islamic PC brigades in the west realize that they hang homosexuals in Iran... and might start doing it in France if they catch them in the streets?"

"Contradiction" is the closest thing to a one word description of liberalism as one can come up with.

There's no part of a the liberal belief system that is not contradicted somewhere else...and more often than not BLATANTLY contradicted.

32 posted on 11/05/2005 9:47:46 AM PST by TheClintons-STILLAnti-American
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To: Eurotwit
"The problem is there's nothing for youths to do here," shouted a defiant man in a Muslim prayer cap

Apparently there's nothing for Muslims all over the world to do. Does the 'holy Koran' say that good Muslims should burn their communities when they are bored? Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if it does.

33 posted on 11/05/2005 9:50:08 AM PST by layman (Card Carrying Infidel)
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To: Eurotwit

The failure of post-modernism, specifically the French variety, is clear for all to see.


34 posted on 11/05/2005 9:52:42 AM PST by indcons ("Not all muslims are terrorists; however, all terrorists today are muslims." - George Fernandez)
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To: Psycho_Bunny

HA! My feelings exactly.


35 posted on 11/05/2005 9:53:35 AM PST by Blumtoon
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To: Eurotwit

That's racist to equate Bin Laden and Muslims.


36 posted on 11/05/2005 10:02:57 AM PST by JustAnotherOkie
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To: TheClintons-STILLAnti-American

TROPAL


37 posted on 11/05/2005 10:03:05 AM PST by HiTech RedNeck
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To: TheClintons-STILLAnti-American

The biggest contradiction of liberalism/socialism is that between their good intentions and reality.


38 posted on 11/05/2005 10:16:10 AM PST by attiladhun2
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To: Eurotwit

My personal experience is that the middle eastern youths in the Paris shantytown suburbs were ready to do something like this before anyone had ever heard of Bin Laden. At least they seemed like typical juvenile delinquints to me.


39 posted on 11/05/2005 11:42:33 AM PST by bkepley
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To: Eurotwit

We need to send Moi Kerri over to nuance these miss guide Jihadist youths.

Send Moi Kerri, Killer Whale Kennedy, Boxer, Fineswine, Peloshi and Reid to nuance these fine Jihadist lads.


40 posted on 11/05/2005 12:03:44 PM PST by Grampa Dave (MSM pseudo reporters use "could, may, and might" when they are lying and spinning.)
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To: bkepley
...Paris shantytown suburbs

They don't live in "shantytowns" these are high rise apartments. France provides very well for the Muzzies.

41 posted on 11/05/2005 12:09:50 PM PST by Dan(9698)
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To: Eurotwit

Liberal nitwits can sure get things screwed up, can't they?


42 posted on 11/05/2005 12:13:10 PM PST by Bullish (Proudly and consistently hating the Clinton's since 1992)
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To: Southack

PING!


43 posted on 11/05/2005 12:14:06 PM PST by MonroeDNA (Look for the union label--on the bat crashing through your windshield!)
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To: Eurotwit; backhoe

That's pretty good. The one I saw today, that I really liked, was "mooligan".

When I asked for a good keyword early on, backhoe suggested "PARISRIOTS", so that has been going into all the threads since the first ones on this. Though now it's much more than Paris, obviously.


44 posted on 11/05/2005 12:14:24 PM PST by FreedomPoster (Guns themselves are fairly robust; their chief enemies are rust and politicians) (NRA)
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To: Eurotwit

bump


45 posted on 11/05/2005 12:15:23 PM PST by VOA
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To: Eurotwit

I have to admit, I am enjoying this.

Pass the popcorn.


46 posted on 11/05/2005 12:17:49 PM PST by MonroeDNA (Look for the union label--on the bat crashing through your windshield!)
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To: Dan(9698)
They don't live in "shantytowns" these are high rise apartments. France provides very well for the Muzzies.

They're ghettos, or were when I was there. They are visible for miles around the outskirts of Paris. Where the middle-easterners live is like a brown ring around Paris. They get government handouts, so what? They have no hope there.

47 posted on 11/05/2005 12:27:45 PM PST by bkepley
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To: bkepley
They have no hope there.

Compared to where?

48 posted on 11/05/2005 12:29:53 PM PST by rogue yam
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To: Eurotwit
Ahmed Hamidi, a white-bearded Moroccan electrician long resident in France, had no patience with politicians .... "All the politicians care about are laws for homosexuals and all those immoral things," he fumed.

Good thing this guy doesn't live in Massachusetts or San Francisco, else he'd REALLY be p*ssed!

49 posted on 11/05/2005 12:32:22 PM PST by LibFreeOrDie (L'chaim!)
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To: LibFreeOrDie
Ahmed Hamidi, a white-bearded Moroccan electrician long resident in France, had no patience with politicians .... "All the politicians care about are laws for homosexuals and all those immoral things," he fumed.

Well, he's got them there.

50 posted on 11/05/2005 12:33:25 PM PST by HitmanLV (Listen to my demos for Savage Nation contest: http://www.geocities.com/mr_vinnie_vegas/index.html)
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