Gideons visit local schools; ACLU uneasy

Lynchburg News & Advance ^ | 11/5/05 | Amy Coute

[wagglebee]

Two Gideons International representatives were in the Robert S. Payne Elementary School cafeteria Friday alongside a table of small red Bibles.

The two men had permission to be there from Lynchburg City Schools. Superintendent Paul McKendrick said city school policy requires students to give the Gideons representative a form signed by a parent before they can accept a Bible.

Gideons representatives were scheduled to visit fifth-graders at Payne, Heritage, Sandusky and Perrymont elementary schools Friday, according to a school activity and events calendar posted on the Lynchburg City Schools Web site.

The executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union of Virginia, Kent Willis, said the practice merits a closer look.

“The court has ruled that you cannot distribute Bibles in elementary schools and this is an elementary school,” Willis said, referring to a 1998 West Virginia Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals case, Peck vs. Upshur County Board of Education.

Willis said that under certain conditions, Gideons and other religious organizations can be on public school campuses. But this specific case warrants closer examination in part because it’s possible for young students to interpret the Gideons’ presence as endorsed by the school.

While the representatives were on campus to see fifth-graders, students from other grades also were in the cafeteria Friday.

“It’s not a simple issue,” Willis said. “If the school is allowing only the Gideons in the school to distribute literature, that is most certainly a constitutional violation. That means the school is officially sanctioning a religious activity.

“However if the school has a policy that allows any private entity to enter the school and distribute literature, then the Gideons would be as welcome as anyone else.”

Lynchburg City School Board chairwoman Julie Doyle was unaware that the Gideons were visiting the schools Friday.

“Clearly public schools are not in the business of promoting one religion over another,” Doyle said.

“This raises questions that we need to address.”

It is unclear how many students accepted biblical texts from the Gideon representatives. The News & Advance was denied access to Payne Elementary on Friday.

School division policy requires that parental permission forms to accept the text be sent home with students prior to the Gideons’ arrival, McKendrick said.

For Willis, that raises more concerns.

“The most important question here is what role does the school play in the religious activity?” Willis said.

“The reason courts have allowed schools to have Gideons come is that the school can claim to play a passive and neutral role. They’re not recruiting Gideons.

“But if a school goes so far as to send a note home, that seems to me to be a much more active role.”

The policy is one McKendrick intends to give a closer look.

“It was something that I had concerns about even before parents asked me about it,” McKendrick said Friday evening.

The issue is a familiar one for Lynchburg City Schools. One year ago, it came up during a superintendent’s parent advisory committee meeting with former superintendent James McCormick.

At that time, parents expressed concerns that the maturity of fifth graders needed to be considered before allowing distribution of biblical texts in elementary schools and about other groups and organizations being allowed access to students.

When it comes to fifth-grade students, McCormick said at the time a permission form signed by the parent would need to be presented to the Gideon representative prior to the student receiving a testament, according to minutes from the meeting.

McCormick said that each request would be considered individually with appropriateness and student safety taken into consideration.

McKendrick said that school division policy regarding the presence of individuals like the Gideon representatives on campus is one he inherited when he took the job and that “this is something we need to look at, just like all of our practices."

[wagglebee]

“It’s not a simple issue,” Willis said. “If the school is allowing only the Gideons in the school to distribute literature, that is most certainly a constitutional violation. That means the school is officially sanctioning a religious activity.

“However if the school has a policy that allows any private entity to enter the school and distribute literature, then the Gideons would be as welcome as anyone else.”

In other words, he would like to see NAMBLA in elementary schools.

[wagglebee]

Moral absolutes ping.

[sweetliberty]

Parents have to consent for their children to obtain Bibles, but not for them to obtain abortions. Is this a great country, or what? < /sarcasm >

[The_Media_never_lie]

Parents have to consent for their children to obtain Bibles, but not for them to obtain abortions.

What a perverse society!

I'll bet the ACLU would have had no objections if the Mohammedens had come into the schools distributing Korans.

[magslinger]

“The court has ruled that you cannot distribute Bibles in elementary schools and this is an elementary school,” Willis said, referring to a 1998 West Virginia Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals case, Peck vs. Upshur County Board of Education.

Why not pass out Bibles in school? Other religions writings are available in schools. Islam and Communism for a couple of examples.

[Guenevere]

Parents have to consent for their children to obtain Bibles....

..but the schools can ask personal, intrusive, sex-ed questions to little kids -(per the recent surveys, in the news)-without the parents knowledge.

This is what we have come to.

[SmoothTalker]

Amazing that Bob Barr has taken up with these clowns.

[Seizure]

First of all, the ACLU is always uneasy. Secondly, the elementary school that my daughter attended allowed Wiccans to come in. In another "assignment" the students made their very own spirit masks and were instucted, by a local Native American, how to find their "guide". I dis-erolled my daughter from the school.

[mlc9852]

This is scary! We cannot, under any circumstance, allow children to see Bibles! Can't we just put out Korans and tell the ACLU to relax?

[H. Paul Pressler IV]

I am sure the Muslims are very grateful to the Gideons for establishing the precedence that religious books can be handed out in the Public Schools.

Look for the Muslims to be distributing Korans within the month.

[Guenevere]

I'm really not from the dinosaur age....

..but when I was in grade school, a missionary visited once a week, and we learned Bible lessons and memory work.....in public schoool

Really....it wasn't that long ago.

How did we get to this point!!!!?

[Seizure]

"Look for the Muslims to be distributing Korans within the month."


Why would they need to when there are public schools who have students dress as Arabs, adopt Arab names, and role play as Muslims? I haven't seen any students dressed as Moses lately. That and the Gideons don't have the benefit of revised history from the Ministry of Truth (Otherwise known as the Department of Education). The tender little minds of children are being soaked with anti-American propaganda in favor of a global society.

I have encountered freshly graduated public school teachers who do not refer to their students by name. Only the students' school identification numbers are on the desks. I heard one teacher only refer to her students as "good citizens". How can one truly be a part of the common good when there is any trace of individualism?

[Skooz]

Neither handing out Bibles nor Korans is disallowed by the 1st Amendment.

[ShadowDancer]

Why not pass out Bibles in school?

Because it doesn't belong in a public school. Religion is the domain of the parents unless you have placed your child in a parochial school. Period.

[Jacquerie]

After Roe is overturned I hope the ACLU's interpretation of the establishment clause is challenged and reversed.

There is simply no restriction whatsoever in our Constitution, tradition or non-case law that prevents the state governments from establishment of a sponsored church. If local school parents wish their children to pray aloud in school there is no Constitutional reason to prevent them.

[Born Conservative]

I received this from "chicagolady", and wanted everyone on the list to see it; it was not pinged by me, as it was during the time I was on my little vacation:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1498245/posts
Remember thie post??


http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1497625/posts
and this post??

Ok FOLKS! Here is your opportunity to give this high school kid and his father a big HURRAY!!

The Illinois Minuteman Project is having their first "Fox Valley " meeting in Elgin at the American Legion hall!!
OUR SPECIAL GUESTS are Mr Robert Bedard and his high school son. We are gonna honor the kid. I plan on passing the basket, because I know a senior probably has a lot of expenses... BUT I would like each FREEPER who receives this FREEPMAIL to send his son words of honor and encouragment that I can read out loud as we honor him at our meeting!!

The meeting will be Thursday Nov 10th 820 N. Liberty in Elgin at the American Legion hall..if you have friends or family they are invited to attend!!\

Please pass this e-mail to anyone you know who would like to send this kid words of encouragement!!

PS!! THE PRINCIPLE IS SUPPOSED TO COME OUT WITH A STATEMENT THIS SUNDAY IN THE LOCAL ELGIN PAPER!!!
The local papers are "The Courier" and the "DAILY HERALD" You may want to check these papers out tommorow!!

I had a long conversation with the Fireman and he says the school principle is ducking ALL responsibility!
I know we did not expect different.

RUMOR has it that this principle is denouncing the Illinois Minuteman Project because we are coming into the Elgin community.
OH I feel so bad!! :-)

Thanks in advance for participating!!

Chicagolady

 

[narses]

+

[Melinda in TN]

My granddaughter gets a new Gideon bible every year at her school and she's in the fourth grade. The kids love to get them and the parents never complain. If it's against the law, Tennessee schools are keeping quiet about it. Of course, we still do a lot of things here that the ACLU probably wouldn't approve of but I don't think they want to mess with rural Tennessee people.

[narses]

I read the Bible in government schools -- The Bible as Literature. Further, the Bible is a historical and foundational document for both America and Western Europe and therefore Western Civilization. Banning it makes COMPLETE education impossible.

[Jacquerie]

See #15. If the majority of parents and the school board wish to hand out bibles, there is no Constitutional reason to prevent it. The socialist Roosevelt court unconstitutionally decided to forcibly remove prayer from public schools.