Posted on 11/11/2005 4:29:40 PM PST by blam
Bird flu may over-stimulate immune system
HONG KONG, Nov. 11 (UPI) -- Researchers in Hong Kong say the H5N1 bird flu virus may provoke an excessive immune reaction, explaining why it is deadly even to the young and healthy.
Laboratory tests on human cells showed that the virus caused the immune system to send proteins called cytokines to infected lung cells, a reaction that would end up damaging or destroying the tissues the immune system is meant to defend.
The tests were carried out by scientists at the University of Hong Kong, working with samples from patients who died in Vietnam. The results were published in the online medical journal Respiratory Research.
The research suggested that patients who contract bird flu may need drugs that suppress the immune response in addition to anti-viral drugs like Tamiflu. It also indicated that healthy people with strong immune systems could fare worse than others if they became infected.
The virus has killed flocks of poultry and migratory birds, particularly in Asia, in recent months, but only 124 people have been infected, through direct contact with birds. Sixty-four of them have died.
The new research may affect preparations by health officials worldwide, who fear a pandemic may occur if the virus mutates to become passed from human to human.
Copyright 2005 by United Press International. All Rights Reserved.
I agree on the rapid incubation/symptom worsening. Not a lot we can do about it but hope it takes longer.
Who's "JA" ?
Judith Anne, who usually runs the influenza threads.
That link does not work. Will you try again?
You do not want to boost your immune system for the H5N1. Don't take elderberry extract for this.
I said in a later post I only want to boost it as long as I'm NOT SICK!!! :)
Thanks. I know. (No sauerkraut either)
It goes to the same web page on http://bird-flu-influenza.com/ that I linked to earlier.
Here's the discussion from Panda's Thumb where I first read that. It doesn't look like they were able to come up with a good answer to the question either.
A snippet:
The problem with the figure Garrett [in this article] cites is that it kills ~55% of the cases we know about. This is a classic case of sample bias. Those who are most sick (and thus, most likely to die) are also most likely to go to a hospital or clinic to be examined—and therefore, are also the most likely to have a clinically-confirmed case of influenza due to the H5N1 strain. Hence, the mortality data we have for H5N1 only comes from this sickest segment of the population—artificially raising the mortality rate. Puzelli et al.’s study, then, is timely due to the fact that it shows that sub-clinical infection with avian-type influenza viruses does occur (in almost 4% of their cohort of poultry workers).
For someone versed in influenza evolution and epidemiology, this is both disturbing and unsurprising. First, a bit of background on influenza virus. The virus has an RNA genome, which is segmented into 8 parts. These parts can re-combine and make a novel virus, containing a few segments of each of the parent viruses. In some cases, this progeny virus may be better adapted for a new host than one (or both) of the parent viruses.
An example. Say a human currently is infected with a (human) influenza virus. Let’s say it’s one of these folks in the Italian cohort of poultry workers. Maybe he’s not sick yet, so he goes into work, where he’s exposed to one or more types of avian influenza virus. If he becomes co-infected, the two types of virus can mix, possibly producing a “humanized” avian influenza virus, which may be transmissible between humans while the parent avian virus was not. This is the stuff of pandemics, and the kind of thing that keeps influenza researchers awake at night.
No, I don't, but I'm hoping the H2H form of H5N1 turns out to have a slower onset.
Clearly, the jury is still out on elderberry. You can find some very clever minds on all sides of the issue. Here is a quote from a FluWikie thread (the whole thread is worth reading).
Dr. Joe – at 03:57 -- 22 Oct
"The mode of Elderberry’s action is NOT primarily due to activation of citokines, nor is that a particularly strong side effect of Elderberry’s antiviral component. Elderberry contains a ribosomal inactivator which is chemically similar to that of Ricin (the deadly poison terrorists habitually try to manufacture). Ricin’s ribosomal inactivation affects all cells, indiscriminately, thereby killing the organism. However, elderberry’s anti-ribosomal enzyme is chemically distinct, in several minor variations, such that, unlike Ricin, it has no effect on the ribosomes of normal, noninfected, eukaryotic cells (normally functioning cells that make up multi-cellular organisms like us). Instead, it only inactivates ribosomes of cells that are actively infected by influenza and other RNA-type viruses, and which are being used to manufacturer new viral RNA particules. The reason for the specificity is extremely complex and not well understood by scientists. It evolved, no doubt, as a method by which the plant self-protects itself against plant viruses, many of which, like influenza, are based upon RNA. It is interesting to note that, just as St. John’s Wort is specific to the inactivation of DNA based viruses, and has no effect on influenza, elderberry is specific to RNA based viruses, and has no effect on DNA based viruses like human papilloma virus, and/or smallpox. As to its use against the new strains of avian influenza, if you are particularly worried about the minor citokine activation side effect, you can take curcumin (turmeric extract) at the same time. Curcumin dampens down citokine production. However, if taken at the first signs of influenza, before the virus has taken full hold, it is unlikely that the citokine stimulating side effects of Elderberry will cause significant morbidity in sick patients. "
http://www.fluwikie.com/index.php?n=Forum.ElderberryTheWrongThingToTake
At any rate, people in their 20s or younger seem to have the most to worry about re cytokine storms.
I highly recommend viewing.
We'll definitely catch it this time. Thanks.
Please see Bear Wash's post 115 from FluWiki regarding findings on Elderberry.
Thanks, BW. ;-D
it's more accurate to say stopped symptoms assocciated with with cytokine storm. The influenza symptoms are resultant and present because of a different mechanism
That's not actually the case, suppressing the immune system as a defense against infection by influenza is not a good strategy. A highly specific cytokine suppressant is required as a concurrent treatment regime. it is likely that a patient with a suppressed immune system will succumb to other symptoms relevant to influenza H5N1, some of these would be fatal in certain patients
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