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Vietnam war critic warns of similarities with Iraq conflict
AP ^ | November 12, 2005 | ROSA CIRIANNI

Posted on 11/12/2005 4:07:54 PM PST by jmc1969

MAPLEWOOD, N.J. -- The man who leaked secret documents about the Vietnam war indicating the federal government had deceived the public, said he sees a lot of similarities between that war and the one being waged in Iraq.

Daniel Ellsberg, who became famous for his release of what became known as the "Pentagon Papers," spoke to a crowd of more than 400 people Saturday at a local high school in Maplewood.

During Saturday's talk, Ellsberg said both the Vietnam war and the war in Iraq were based on lies, referring to the failure to find weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.

Ellsberg also sent out a special message to people working in the federal government today, urging them to speak up now about possible government misconduct they witness relating to the Iraq war.

The Harvard graduate, who has praised government whistleblowers who leak information about the Iraq war, said he wishes he had leaked the Pentagon Papers earlier, possibly ending the war sooner.

Ellsberg said Democratic leadership in Washington is essential for the nation to get out of Iraq, but according to Ellsberg, Democratic politicians are worried about the Bush administration labeling them as unpatriotic, weak on terrorism, or traitors _ something he said happened during the Vietnam era as well.

Ellsberg, who read from his book "Secrets A Memoir of Vietnam and the Pentagon Papers" that was published in 2002, predicted that Bush would want to push through a new Patriot Act that would make the existing one look "like the Bill of Rights."

Westfield resident, Diane Beeny, 48, came to the event wearing a black beret and several anti-war pins with mottos such as : "No War!," and "Military Spending is Killing Us! "

(Excerpt) Read more at nynewsday.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs
KEYWORDS: ellsberg; handwringers
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We agree Iraq is another Vietnam. Thanks for your help.

1 posted on 11/12/2005 4:07:55 PM PST by jmc1969
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To: jmc1969

Anybody care to calculate how many years it will take to lose 58,000 American troops in Iraq at the current rate?


2 posted on 11/12/2005 4:11:37 PM PST by cripplecreek (Never a minigun handy when you need one.)
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To: jmc1969

Regurgitations from another tired old anti American hack!


3 posted on 11/12/2005 4:11:59 PM PST by evad ( Politicians are devious scum, right after newspaper editors)
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To: jmc1969

Ellsberg should have been forced to cough up his sources for revealing military secrets like Judy Miller.


4 posted on 11/12/2005 4:15:01 PM PST by Semper Paratus
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To: cripplecreek

About 60 years.


5 posted on 11/12/2005 4:16:44 PM PST by L98Fiero
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To: jmc1969

The big similarities are a bunch of back stabbing politicians and enemy sympathizers in the press.


6 posted on 11/12/2005 4:16:57 PM PST by airborne (Al-Queda can recruit on college campuses but the US military can't!)
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To: jmc1969
Good old Danny. Still trying like hell to be relevant!
7 posted on 11/12/2005 4:17:13 PM PST by Bommer (To Ted Kennedy - "Fat Drunk and Stupid is no way to go through life son!" - Dean Wormer)
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To: jmc1969
"...spoke to a crowd of more than 400 people Saturday at a local high school in Maplewood.

Wow! That's a record-breaking crowd! /s

8 posted on 11/12/2005 4:17:14 PM PST by LibFreeOrDie (L'chaim!)
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To: jmc1969

This posting is in dire need of a "Barf Alert." Without a warning, I read the whole thing and now....aaurrghhh


9 posted on 11/12/2005 4:17:52 PM PST by DJ Taylor (Once again our country is at war, and once again the Democrats have sided with our enemy.)
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To: jmc1969

The primary similarity is that the war protestors are undermining our effort in Iraq, just as they did in Vietnam.


10 posted on 11/12/2005 4:18:44 PM PST by Brilliant
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To: jmc1969

My God, when will the ridiculous comparisons to Vietnam finally be universally recognized as cheesy and the last refuge of tired, old and unapolagetic communists?


11 posted on 11/12/2005 4:19:49 PM PST by thegreatbeast (Quid lucrum istic mihi est?)
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To: jmc1969

Why hasn't this clown been backed up against a wall and suffered a severe lead poisoning attack?

50 years ago we wouldn't have to ask why, just why so long.

TT


12 posted on 11/12/2005 4:21:59 PM PST by TexasTransplant (NEMO ME IMPUNE LACESSET)
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To: cripplecreek

LEADING CAUSES OF DEATH IN THE UNITED STATES

http://www.the-eggman.com/writings/death_stats.html


13 posted on 11/12/2005 4:22:57 PM PST by airborne (Al-Queda can recruit on college campuses but the US military can't!)
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To: Brilliant

Ellsberg believes in freedom for himself. Others can hope to jump on a boat or run like hell through the rice paddies with a baby on their back. Cambodian and dead Vietnamese thank you Danny. Communism isn't all that bad to people living outside the Mao bubble. I am betting Ellsberg never studied anything about how the Chinese Communists came to power and what they did to the Chinese people. Ellsberg has to be blood kin to Mr. Berg


14 posted on 11/12/2005 4:24:03 PM PST by oldironsides
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To: Semper Paratus
Ellsberg should have been forced to cough up his sources for revealing military secrets like Judy Miller.

Agreed.

15 posted on 11/12/2005 4:26:07 PM PST by eddie willers
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To: LibFreeOrDie
The shame of this is if asked for equal time for those that support the war they wouldn't allow you access to Maplewood High. But in the liberal enclave of Maplewood, you might have problems getting any support.
16 posted on 11/12/2005 4:26:52 PM PST by Recon Dad (Force Recon Dad (and proud of it))
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To: airborne

Amen. Traitors like him should be behind bars. Not in front of school crowd.


17 posted on 11/12/2005 4:34:18 PM PST by indianrightwinger
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To: jmc1969

There are NO simularities between the Vietnam war and the war on terror. Period.


18 posted on 11/12/2005 4:40:16 PM PST by afnamvet
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To: cripplecreek
I'm shocked to see that pig, Ellsberg, is still here, after all these years.
19 posted on 11/12/2005 4:41:12 PM PST by isrul
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To: Semper Paratus
Ellsberg should have been forced to cough up his sources for revealing military secrets like Judy Miller.

Outsource this to the Jordanians for gathering source information. Ellsberg belongs in prison.

20 posted on 11/12/2005 4:44:15 PM PST by afnamvet
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To: jmc1969
The real pity for them is that Al Qaida and AQIZ are far too weak to pull off the 'Tet Offensive' style attacks that the MSM is clearly waiting for.

The trend is clear: terrorists no longer attack U.S. forces in any number. They save their strength for hotels and marketplaces. This gets them news coverage, and news coverage keeps them in the game.

Ironic that the French media has decided to stop showing images of burning cars, because they believe it incites more people to burn cars.

What, then, does covering suicide bombings of non-military targets do?

21 posted on 11/12/2005 4:49:49 PM PST by Steel Wolf (* No sleep till Baghdad! *)
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To: jmc1969
"MAPLEWOOD, N.J. -- The man who leaked secret documents about the Vietnam war indicating the federal government had deceived the public, said he sees a lot of similarities between that war and the one being waged in Iraq."

Yep! The demoRats are following the same dirty game plan they used during the Vietnam war. That's where the similarities are. But we have a new media here on the internet.... and they're not going to get away with it this time! Because their voices aren't the only one's heard anymore!

22 posted on 11/12/2005 4:55:26 PM PST by GloriaJane (http://music.download.com/gloriajane "ACLU Christmas")
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To: jmc1969

Enemy agents are welcome at our high schools while recruiters aren't. How French can we get?


23 posted on 11/12/2005 4:56:24 PM PST by Steamburg (Pretenders everywhere)
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To: Bommer

Boy ain't that the truth.

Problem is, so many of the vapor brains that comprise today's youth belief this crap, mostly because they are spoiled egomaniacs with no thinking skills.

Hubby & I had to turn off a 20-something comedian who started out funny, then got into the seemingly inevitable I-hate-Bush-he lied-people died-all conservatives must die routine.


24 posted on 11/12/2005 4:58:34 PM PST by visualops (www.visualops.com)
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To: jmc1969

Both had Anti-American propaganda from the commie/terrorists sycophantic press and Traitorous spineless micromanaging egomaniac elitists in the U.S. Congress.

Yes, I see some similarities.


25 posted on 11/12/2005 5:04:17 PM PST by Soul Seeker (Mr. President: It is now time to turn over the money changers' tables.)
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To: jmc1969
...Ellsberg said both the Vietnam war and the war in Iraq were based on lies,...

Stinkin' liars anyway!

Bill Clinton: "If Saddam rejects peace, and we have to use force, our purpose is clear: We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."

Madeleine Albright, Clinton Secretary of State: "We must stop Saddam from ever again jeopardizing the stability and the security of his neighbors with weapons of mass destruction."

Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Advisor and Classified Document Thief: "[Saddam will] use those weapons of mass destruction again as he has ten times since 1983."

Harry Reid: "The problem is not nuclear testing; it is nuclear weapons. ... The number of Third World countries with nuclear capabilities seems to grow daily. Saddam Hussein's near success with developing a nuclear weapon should be an eye-opener for us all."

Dick Durbin: "One of the most compelling threats we in this country face today is the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction. Threat assessments regularly warn us of the possibility that...Iraq...may acquire or develop nuclear weapons."

John Kerry: "If you don't believe...Saddam Hussein is a threat with nuclear weapons, then you shouldn't vote for me."

John Edwards: "Serving on the Intelligence Committee and seeing day after day, week after week, briefings on Saddam's weapons of mass destruction and his plans on using those weapons, he cannot be allowed to have nuclear weapons, it's just that simple. The whole world changes if Saddam ever has nuclear weapons."

Nancy Pelosi: "Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology, which is a threat to countries in the region, and he has made a mockery of the weapons-inspection process."

Sens. Levin, Lieberman, Lautenberg, Dodd, Kerrey, Feinstein, Mikulski, Daschle, Breaux, Johnson, Inouye, Landrieu, Ford and Kerry in a letter to Bill Clinton: "We urge you, after consulting with Congress and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions, including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."


26 posted on 11/12/2005 5:04:51 PM PST by TigersEye (Intellectuals exist only if you think they do.)
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To: jmc1969

Perhaps we should have an AP alert sot that readers can have their Air-Sick bags at the ready.


27 posted on 11/12/2005 5:04:53 PM PST by SeaWolf (Orwell must have foreseen the 21st Century Democratic Party when he wrote 1984)
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To: jmc1969

The main similarity is that the left in the United States is doing its best to see that we lose.


28 posted on 11/12/2005 5:06:46 PM PST by Gumlegs
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To: cripplecreek
Anybody care to calculate how many years it will take to lose 58,000 American troops in Iraq at the current rate?

87 years. Yup, just exactly like Vietnam.

29 posted on 11/12/2005 5:08:33 PM PST by TigersEye (Intellectuals exist only if you think they do.)
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To: jmc1969

I won't be suprised if they roll out Daniel Berrigan from the nursing home to make a anti-war speaking tour.


30 posted on 11/12/2005 5:10:48 PM PST by dancusa (Appeasement, high taxes and regulation collects in the diapers of bed wetting liberals.)
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To: cripplecreek

I believe 87 years total. So 84 more.

This guy's another moron. The biggest and pretty much sole similarity is that the politicians are involved.


31 posted on 11/12/2005 5:11:25 PM PST by Fruitbat
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To: Steamburg
Daniel Ellsberg, who became famous for his release of what became known as the "Pentagon Papers," spoke to a crowd of more than 400 people Saturday at a local high school in Maplewood.

O.K> people of Maplewood.... Wake up ! Does your school board have a hidden agenda or what ???? Better show up in your next school board meeting and raise some cane !!!!

I lived through this guy's last "15 mins. of fame" many years ago and what he did back then was a treasonable offense. It was far worse than what John F. Kerry did back then and I hated seeing his face in the news back then in his "Hippie solder" class A uniform. I still hate him for that.
enough venting... Maplewood, go find out who booked this nut (or even approved it) and remove him or her !!
32 posted on 11/12/2005 5:11:33 PM PST by Tinman73 (Human nature requires We forget the terrible things We see. A truly intelligent person remembers it)
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To: cripplecreek
Anybody care to calculate how many years it will take to lose 58,000 American troops in Iraq at the current rate?


Why the present rate. Sure at 80 dead a month it would takes us over 50 years. But in a lot less time than that the moslem terrorists will have nukes and then our casualties will make Vietnam look insignificant, we will lose 58,000 in one day.

President Bush needs to do a Harriet 180 from his present kinder gentler compassionate war fighting and get WW2 on these folks. Right now the rules of engagement are very much like Vietnam.

When a possible car bomber comes at you, they want you to make hand signals, throw flash bangs, aim for the engine, aim for the empty passenger side, then shoot the driver. And that is just car bombers.

Just like Vietnam our President allows the terrorist that kill our troops sanctuary in Syria and Iran. Actually its worse than Vietnam because at least LBJ/Nixon bombed Laos and Cambodia. Pres. Bush doesn't even lift a finger against Iran or Syria.

http://www.slate.com/id/2111432/
Adjusting body counts -
The scale can be further balanced. In 1966, U.S. troops in Vietnam numbered 385,000. In 2004, the figure in Iraq has averaged roughly 142,000. Comparing the burden shouldered by individual soldiers in both conflicts raises the 2004 "constant casualty" figure in Iraq to 3,065 KIA


"While the North Vietnamese fought a coordinated defensive battle for Hue City until they were annihilated, the terrorists in Fallujah fought in small packs, hiding among the tens of thousands of structures in the "city of mosques." In the three-week battle for Hue, 147 Marines were killed and 857 wounded. In the twin battles for Fallujah, more than 104 soldiers and Marines have been killed and more than 1,100 wounded in a battle that will continue to take lives, like the three Marines who encountered yet another pocket of fighters last week. "

In both Hue and Fallujah, air power was not used so as to save historic/religious structures. We should have leveled both places. Kinder gentler compassionate may work in politics but not in war.

In Vietnam, right up to the day that North Vietnamese troops walked into Saigon to the cheering crowds of Saigonese, the United States had the support of most Vietnamese. Tagline:
33 posted on 11/12/2005 5:12:35 PM PST by TomasUSMC (FIGHT LIKE WW2, FINISH LIKE WW2. FIGHT LIKE NAM, FINISH LIKE NAM.)
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To: jmc1969
And the war between the present administration and the intelligence community both past and present continues.
34 posted on 11/12/2005 5:12:47 PM PST by kublia khan (Absolute war brings total victory)
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To: afnamvet

There are NO simularities between the Vietnam war and the war on terror. Period.



Except:
Syria/Laos
Iran/Cambodia
Well actually thats incorrect, we bombed Laos and Cambodia. We haven't done squat to Syria and Iran


35 posted on 11/12/2005 5:15:00 PM PST by TomasUSMC (FIGHT LIKE WW2, FINISH LIKE WW2. FIGHT LIKE NAM, FINISH LIKE NAM.)
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To: afnamvet

"There are NO simularities between the Vietnam war and the war on terror. Period."

Yes there is. The American left. They see it as being like Vietnam because they are acting in the exact same reprehensible, disgraceful manner as they did in Vietnam. They look at their own actions and say, "See, just like Vietnam."


36 posted on 11/12/2005 5:16:29 PM PST by L98Fiero
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To: TomasUSMC
I could not agree more (read the tag line)
37 posted on 11/12/2005 5:17:03 PM PST by kublia khan (Absolute war brings total victory)
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To: jmc1969
similarities...

Vietnam War and Daniel Ellsberg

Iraq War and Sandy Berger

38 posted on 11/12/2005 5:17:39 PM PST by TigersEye (Intellectuals exist only if you think they do.)
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To: isrul
I'm shocked to see that pig, Ellsberg, is still here, after all these years.

Notwithstanding a quest for relevance and a jones for renewed media attention, I'm thinking his social security ain't payin' the bills......

39 posted on 11/12/2005 5:24:18 PM PST by Hot Tabasco (I'm tired of idiots and don't have enough ammo to shoot them all.......Jeez, I hate that thought!)
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To: L98Fiero

The bedwetters, cowards, appeasers, the great unwashed of the left are indeed still part of the political landscape as they were in Vietnam. They are just more brainless now.


40 posted on 11/12/2005 5:31:11 PM PST by afnamvet
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To: afnamvet

Oh yes there are. A seditious near traitorous core of lying obsfucating anti-war activists who are trying to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory almost EXACTLY as they did to me and my comrades 36 years ago. The main difference is that they can't get away with the villification of the American soldier as they did then. For details on our military victory in Vietnam, I would refer you to UNHERALDED VICTORY: THE DEFEAT OF THE VIET CONG AND NORTH VIETNAMESE ARMY by Mark Woodruff.


41 posted on 11/12/2005 5:38:11 PM PST by DMZFrank
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To: Gumlegs

I agree. The only similarity is that the dimocRATS and the MSM are behaving the same way. Otherwise there is no comparison.


42 posted on 11/12/2005 5:50:51 PM PST by Parley Baer
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To: DMZFrank

See my post#40. I was there also in 68-69. My point was that OPERATIONALLY there are no simularities.


43 posted on 11/12/2005 5:55:47 PM PST by afnamvet
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To: afnamvet

I stand corrected. Operationally I think that the job is less diffucult owing to an even greater asymentry between the Islamist nutcase killers and our superb forces (including Iraquis) than was the case in Vietnam.


44 posted on 11/12/2005 6:01:46 PM PST by DMZFrank
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To: DMZFrank

And thank you sir for your service.


45 posted on 11/12/2005 6:04:07 PM PST by afnamvet
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To: afnamvet

And you for yours. And all of our brothers and sisters who comprise the great corp of patriots who have been enlisted to serve and maintain the freedom of the greatest nation in human history.


46 posted on 11/12/2005 6:11:09 PM PST by DMZFrank
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To: cripplecreek

It took us ten years and 58,000 KIA before we quit. Right now it took us three years and 2000 KIA before we have less than 50 percent support for the war. I hate to say this, the Vietnam Era Americans are a lot tougher than the 21st Century Americans.


47 posted on 11/12/2005 6:40:29 PM PST by Fee (`+Great powers never let minor allies dictate who, where and when they must fight.)
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To: jmc1969

It's common knowledge that Ellsberg is a nut job. After all, anyone who had to suffer through the 70's has heard of Daniel Ellsberg's psychiatrist. Hey Rocky, watch me pull a rabbit out of my hat!


48 posted on 11/12/2005 6:48:45 PM PST by KarinG1 (Some of us are trying to engage in philosophical discourse. Please don't allow us to interrupt you.)
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To: jmc1969; All

(Thanks to the best political cartoonist in this country, who is...a conservative! Eric Allie...)

49 posted on 11/12/2005 8:24:01 PM PST by rlmorel ("Innocence seldom utters outraged shrieks. Guilt does." Whittaker Chambers)
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To: Fee

Back then, they did not have the nearly 24 hour a day hammering away at it in the papers, television and radio that they have today.

They also did not have nearly the ENTIRE democratic party hammering away with negativity either.

But it is a good point you make.


50 posted on 11/12/2005 8:26:43 PM PST by rlmorel ("Innocence seldom utters outraged shrieks. Guilt does." Whittaker Chambers)
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