Santorum: Don't put intelligent design in classroom

Beaver County Times & Allegheny Times ^ | 11/13/5 | Bill Vidonic

[bobhoskins]

If it were taught that evolution is one theory and creation is another and left at that, I'd not really ask much more.

I'd require that we also teach a third theory that's it all the dream of an autistic child, and leave it at that.

[balrog666]

From pung to pungent.

[I got the rope]

He's running for reelection. He's trying to be all things to all people I guess.

[mysonsfuture]

Better to lose with integrity than to abandon your values and stand for nothing. Santorum has surrendered to the left. Sad and too damn bad! He was a good conservative soldier for awhile. Now his is simply another traitor to America.

[b_sharp]

"Okay, the evidence does not sustain what you folks claim it does. You love to make 'wink and a nod' comments about Christians who accept creation on faith, but then excuse away your belief in things that can't be proven as scientific.

Huh? Did you understand a thing I said? Evolution has been verified multiple times and ways.

"The flimsey evidence that exists to support the theory of evolution (from single cell to man) is just that, flimsey. You can't point to another theory that you will accept, so yours must be the only one.

Show me another theory that does a better job at explaining our observations, then we'll talk.

There is much more to evolution than just the lineage from single celled organisms to man. Why do you insist on relying on that one point to show all of evolution false?

"In the dark ages, it was the Christians who vilified scientific thinkers. Today it's the scientific thinkers turn.

What?

[Dimensio]

Now his is simply another traitor to America.

Accepting valid science makes a person a traitor?!

Then again, this isn't the worst piece of vicous libel lobbed at those who accept evolution. It's close, but not quite the worst.

[b_sharp]

No!

[ndt]

"Yes, God DID do it. That gravity, thermodynamics and all the laws of physics can mostly be explained does not negate the God Who created it or sustains it..... Faith required in the astronomical possibility of evolution is far greater than a faith required to believe in God, but the God Whom I choose to believe in is far more complex and powerful than that of evolution."

So, if you accept that God put in place a system of physics, that through a few simple rules, the entire universe came into being and sustains itself in accordance with those rules, why do you have such a hard time accepting that evolution is nothing but an extension of those rules. Sure, maybe God did create man (along with everything else) but if he did it, he did it just like with the rest of the universe, by establishing this set of rules we call reality which includes a process we call evolution.

Evolution takes no stance on God much as physics takes no stance on God. It is a description of the reality around us and by extension, is born of and bound by the rules of that reality, ultimately physics. Where those fundamental rules came from is still a mystery.

You say that the God you choose to believe in is more complex than evolution. I would assume that such a god was more complex that any single aspect of his creation, planets, stars, whatever. Then why would he not be able to or choose not to produce a system where by life was self sustaining and would adapt to changing conditions?

[FreeReign]

What it all boils down to is that you folks have observed some evolution, and voyola, that's the definitive basis for the origion of man. Nah. It may be. It may not be. It is not definitive.

I'm glad you recognize that "some" evolution has been observed. The evidence is strong that the creation of different species has been an evolutionary process.

Sure there are many missing links in the fossil record. That is the nature of fossilization. Sure, one can't demonstrate a continous lineage from single cell organism to humans.

But as you admit there is a lot of evidence that different species have involved.

The above is a very simple scientific summary of evolution. It is what should be taught in science class. It is what was taught to me in college as a GeoChem major.

As I look through my old Geology, Paleontology, Stratigraphy books that I saved from college, I notice that nowhere in these books does it say that man evolved from apes.

Particularly in my "Evolution of the Earth" science book I look for any such statement of fact and I don't see it. When this books mentions Darwin, it doesn't cover Darwin's postulation about apes and man. It does mention natural selection, the fossil record and the specifics of cell mutations.

This is science. ID is not science.

[b_sharp]

"News evidence debunks evolution, and more and more scientists are becoming skeptical of evolution.

You have been listening to propaganda

[FreeReign]

BTW, you still haven't answered the two questions that I asked you. I'll repeat them again.

Question #1: Isn't Santorum being vilified for keeping I.D. out of science class?

Question #2: Do you D1 believe that ID should be taught in science class?

[FreeReign]

Post #271 is for you.

[b_sharp]

If you do, I won't hold any punches. :-P

[FreeReign]

There is much more to evolution than just the lineage from single celled organisms to man. Why do you insist on relying on that one point to show all of evolution false?

Your above statement is correct. Very rarely is the origin of humans talked about when evolution is discussed. As I mentioned in a previous post, I can't find it in any of my Geo and Paleo text books.

BTW, I think D1 does say that some evolution has occurred. Isn't that correct D1?

[b_sharp]

"Anyone ever stop to think that some of the pro-Evolution scientists stand to lose money if the Evolution Theory is debunked?

Anyone ever stop to think that a pro-evolution scientist that verifiably debunked the ToE could win a Nobel and a million dollars?

[b_sharp]

"False. Furthermore, It is tautology.

In what way?

[FreeReign]

Anyone ever stop to think that some of the pro-Evolution scientists stand to lose money if the Evolution Theory is debunked?

I hear that the flat earth people are still, after all of these years, racking in the bucks.

Right?

[ExtremeUnction]

Science leads you where it leads you.

He's right. Creationism is for 1st Graders'. Get real, conservatives. Creationism is as real as Mighty Mouse. What a crock. From a TRUE Conservative..

[RightWingNilla]

What made the Big Bang?

A variation on this is "WELL, WHAT BANGED?!?!?!?"

[b_sharp]

"That nothing in science is provable.

But we have also stated that theories are verifiable and are only accepted when they pass testing.

I explained why science is not provable a number of posts ago. I also explained why we can trust theories without some specific absolute proof. Our entire technological society is based on science that has never been proven in the sense you use the term. Is that not enough for us to be confident in its value?