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Santorum: Don't put intelligent design in classroom
Beaver County Times & Allegheny Times ^ | 11/13/5 | Bill Vidonic

Posted on 11/13/2005 3:49:41 PM PST by Crackingham

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To: DoughtyOne
Your own side admits it.

Citation for this admission?

(I now eagerly wait to see if DoughtyOne provides a cop-out or a mined quote)
101 posted on 11/13/2005 5:18:13 PM PST by Dimensio ( <-- required reading before you use your next apostrophe!)
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To: DoughtyOne
"Fine, then remove the unproven 'theory' of evolution from science classrooms. I have no problem with it. Thanks.

By the way you emphasized the word 'theory' is sounds like you think that theories are somewhat less than what should be taught. This shows a lack of understanding of how science works. No problem, this is common among creationists. Let me explain it to you.

Nothing in science is based on proof, or proofs, but on statistical analysis of evidence that provides us with a level of confidence that the theory is valid. So, number one, asking for proof is erroneous. Asking for evidence would be correct.

A theory is made up of a number of hypotheses, from one to however many are developed, that have been tested and found to give a high level of confidence. In other words, a theory has already been tested and verified. As you can see this pretty much is counter to your statement about 'unproven theories'.

102 posted on 11/13/2005 5:18:50 PM PST by b_sharp (Please visit, read, and understand PatrickHenry's List-O-Links.)
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To: b_sharp
But it's "just a theory"
103 posted on 11/13/2005 5:20:20 PM PST by PatrickHenry (Expect no response if you're a troll, lunatic, retard, or incurable ignoramus.)
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To: staytrue
Being conservative has nothing to do with evolution or ID. For you to suggest otherwise is not correct.

I would strongly suggest otherwise and I think it's highly remiss for you to suggest that. ID is backed by facts coming out the wazoo. Evolution is nothing short of a theory well short on facts and data yet one that has simply been embraced, largely by people on the left, simply b/c their not embracing it indicts much of the basis for their thinking generally and particularly speaking.

I'll leave it for you to consider which ideology, conservatism or liberalism is the one that is short on facts, truth, and bases for their arguments and which is founded on truth, facts, and solid foundations for their arguments!


104 posted on 11/13/2005 5:22:34 PM PST by Fruitbat
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To: Rudder
You failed to understand my point.

No, I really did not. I just don't see that these people are dictating any such religion to you or anyone else. And I don't see them doing it "despite" the scientific evidence, I see them doing it with it. Your argument presumes that they think nothing of science and that science has no place with God. I say thats nonsense.

105 posted on 11/13/2005 5:22:54 PM PST by ICE-FLYER (God bless and keep the United States of America)
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To: Fruitbat
ID is backed by facts coming out the wazoo.

State some of these facts.

Evolution is nothing short of a theory

What else would you expect it to be?
106 posted on 11/13/2005 5:23:25 PM PST by Dimensio ( <-- required reading before you use your next apostrophe!)
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The CrevoSci Archive
Just one of the many services of Darwin Central
"The Conspiracy that Cares"

CrevoSci threads for the past week:

  1. 2005-11-13 Intelligent Design Grounded in Science
  2. 2005-11-13 Intelligent Design, Part 1
  3. 2005-11-13 Pope states the universe is a product of an 'intelligent project'
  4. 2005-11-13 Santorum: Don't put intelligent design in classroom
  5. 2005-11-12 [Kansas Gov. Kathleen] Sebelius criticizes State Board of Education's move [new science standards]
  6. 2005-11-12 ID [Intelligent Design] Opens Astronomer’s Mind to Universe’s Surprises
  7. 2005-11-11 A revolution for evolution - Intelligent design must not replace hard science in classrooms.
  8. 2005-11-11 Dover results disputed: School board candidate says machine was faulty
  9. 2005-11-11 FR Debate: Intelligent Design vs. Birth Defects, Can They Be Reconciled?
  10. 2005-11-11 Potential Origins of Europeans Found
  11. 2005-11-11 The Real Evil of Evolutionary Humanism
  12. 2005-11-10 Culture War Briefing, weekday news guide
  13. 2005-11-10 Fossils of fierce-looking dinosaur found in Argentina (Godzilla)
  14. 2005-11-10 Is Intelligent Design a Bad Scientific Theory or a Non-Scientific Theory?
  15. 2005-11-10 Kansas educators clear way for evolution criticism
  16. 2005-11-10 Pat Robertson has a message for Dover, PA: Don't ask God to help.
  17. 2005-11-10 Pat Robertson Warns Pa. Town of Disaster
  18. 2005-11-10 US states divide over creationism [the view from the UK]
  19. 2005-11-10 Why the conspiracy theorizing about theories? (Freeper op-ed)
  20. 2005-11-09 Anti-Evolution School Board Ousted
  21. 2005-11-09 Dover CARES sweeps election (Intelligent Design loses big)
  22. 2005-11-09 Evolution Suffers Kansas Setback
  23. 2005-11-09 Gigantic Apes Coexisted With Early Humans, Study Finds
  24. 2005-11-09 'Intelligent Design' Wins In Kansas
  25. 2005-11-09 Patent issued for anti-gravity device
  26. 2005-11-09 Science to ride gravitational waves
  27. 2005-11-09 Shifting Icebergs May Have Forced Penguin Evolution
  28. 2005-11-09 Shifting Icebergs May Have Forced Penguin Evolution
  29. 2005-11-08 Bloodthirsty 'Vampire' Spider Found
  30. 2005-11-08 Down for the Count (Sleep & Evolution)
  31. 2005-11-08 Federal lawsuit could follow board vote [Evolution in Kansas & Dover]
  32. 2005-11-08 Kansas education board downplays evolution
  33. 2005-11-08 Kansas State Board Approves Teaching Standards Skeptical of Evolution
  34. 2005-11-08 Math problems too big for our brains
  35. 2005-11-08 RATE research reveals remarkable results—a fatal blow to billions of years (Evolution loses)
  36. 2005-11-08 The 'Vatican' Endorses 'Darwin'? ['Vatican' has done no such thing
  37. 2005-11-07 [Kansas] Board Votes on Evolution (Tomorrow, NOV 8 - Teaching I.D. to be approved!)
  38. 2005-11-07 A pope for our times: why Darwin is back on the agenda at the Vatican
  39. 2005-11-07 An Evolutionist's Evolution [Huge exhibit at Museum of Nat. History, NYC]
  40. 2005-11-07 Evolution in the bible, says Vatican
  41. 2005-11-07 Good genes beat good homes as guide to pupils’ school Success
  42. 2005-11-07 Kennewick Man, Meet Your Distant Cousins
  43. 2005-11-07 Prehistoric skull found in dump may be missing common ancestor of apes & humans

CrevoSci Warrior Freepdays for the month of November:

2000-11-29 An.American.Expatriate
2000-11-10 AncientAirs
2000-11-21 AndrewC
1998-11-18 angelo
2000-11-10 beavus
1999-11-22 Blood of Tyrants
2003-11-26 blowfish
2004-11-08 CarolinaGuitarman
1997-11-28 cd jones
2001-11-30 claptrap
2001-11-16 CobaltBlue
2005-11-10 culturewars
2002-11-21 DannyTN
2004-11-16 DaveLoneRanger
1997-11-30 Ditto
2001-11-16 dmz
2000-11-02 Exit 109
2004-11-05 FeeinTennessee
2000-11-22 FFIGHTER
2000-11-12 ForGod'sSake
2001-11-07 FourtySeven
2000-11-15 freespirited
2000-11-10 Godel
2004-11-06 GreenOgre
2004-11-03 Grey Rabbit
2000-11-04 harbinger of doom
2000-11-28 HiTech RedNeck
1999-11-05 Ichneumon
1998-11-13 jennyp
1998-11-25 Junior_G
2002-11-17 Just mythoughts
2004-11-11 kaotic133
little jeremiah
1998-11-18 malakhi
2000-11-19 Mike Fieschko
2004-11-24 mista science
2003-11-09 MplsSteve
2000-11-06 mrjeff
1999-11-05 muleskinner
2003-11-17 Nathan Zachary
2002-11-12 NCLaw441
1999-11-25 Nebullis
2000-11-13 NYer
2000-11-24 old-ager
2004-11-03 PajamaHadin
2000-11-10 Patriotic Teen
1998-11-01 Pharmboy
2000-11-11 P-Marlowe

1999-11-08 Pyro7480
2002-11-14 Remedy
2000-11-30 Right Wing Professor
2004-11-18 rightwinggoth
1998-11-15 rob777
1998-11-04 RobRoy
2004-11-01 SeasideSparrow
2004-11-05 shadowfighter
1999-11-16 TerP26
2004-11-13 This Just In
2000-11-04 TigerTale
2004-11-11 untrained skeptic
2004-11-21 VictoryGal
2001-11-25 Vote 4 Nixon
2000-11-05 will of the people
2003-11-29 woodb01

In Memoriam
Fallen CrevoSci Warriors:

Area Freeper
Con X-Poser

Ed Current
Justice Avenger
Kevin Curry

Land of the Irish
peg the prophet

ReasonedThought ret_medic
The Loan Arranger

Bring back Modernman and SeaLion!

Lost CrevoSci Battlefields (Pulled Threads)

Longest CrevoSci Thread Ever

Glossary of Terms

Assumption: Premise: a statement that is assumed to be true and from which a conclusion can be drawn; "on the assumption that he has been injured we can infer that he will not to play"
Belief: Any cognitive content (perception) held as true; religious faith
CrevoCreation vs. evolution
CrevoSciCreation vs. evolution/Science
CrevoSci Warriors:  Those who take part on CrevoSci threads
Data: factual information, especially information organized for analysis or used to reason or make decisions
Dogma: a religious doctrine that is proclaimed as true without proof
Fact: When an observation is confirmed repeatedly and by many independent and competent observers, it can become a fact
Freepday:  The day a Freeper joined Free Republic
Hypothesis: A tentative theory about the natural world; a concept that is not yet verified but that if true would explain certain facts or phenomena; "a scientific hypothesis that survives experimental testing becomes a scientific theory"; "he proposed a fresh theory of alkalis that later was accepted in chemical practices"
Impression: A vague idea in which some confidence is placed; "his impression of her was favorable"; "what are your feelings about the crisis?"; "it strengthened my belief in his sincerity"; "I had a feeling that she was lying"
Law: A generalization that describes recurring facts or events in nature; "the laws of thermodynamics"
Observation: Any information collected with the senses
Theory: A well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world; an organized system of accepted knowledge that applies in a variety of circumstances to explain a specific set of phenomena; "theories can incorporate facts and laws and tested hypotheses"; "true in fact and theory"

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107 posted on 11/13/2005 5:24:01 PM PST by Junior (From now on, I'll stick to science, and leave the hunting alien mutants to the experts!)
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To: Rebel_Ace

As I said in an earlier post, we're dealing with people who have no kinship to, no education in and no understanding of science. They insist, in their arguments here, that science conform to their uninformed beliefs.

108 posted on 11/13/2005 5:24:08 PM PST by Rudder
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To: sinkspur

I don't think God abandons people. I think people abandon God.

109 posted on 11/13/2005 5:24:35 PM PST by Petronski (Cyborg is the greatest blessing I have ever known.)
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To: AntiGuv
...evolution has been sustained as a scientific theory for 146 years. That's longer than most current scientific theories of physics and chemistry have been sustained. Intelligent design has been sustained as a scientific theory for a grand total of zero years. To be clear, that's zero followed by an infinite number of zeros.

Yes, the fossil record is replete with evidence of evolving species.

110 posted on 11/13/2005 5:27:54 PM PST by FreeReign
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To: infidel29
I guess Santorum doesn't want to be re-elected after all.

Apparently not since all he appears to be is a Specter in training. The Dims certainly aren't going to support him.

111 posted on 11/13/2005 5:28:05 PM PST by Fruitbat
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To: Dimensio

What else would you expect it to be?

It should slice, dice and splice the genes of mutant mice. It should be a juicer and a boost my gas mileage to over 102 per gallon. I'd like to take it out to the zoo and buy it red balloons and funnel cake. And it should keep the ice cream in my fridge from going melty, cure hang-overs, clip my toe nails and walk the dog.

112 posted on 11/13/2005 5:28:43 PM PST by durasell
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To: Rudder
Actually, I had a rather odd thought. I wonder what ID'ers think about genetic manipulation. I mean, if the course of all biology on Earth was steered and managed, then they should have no problem with Humans tinkering around with the DNA sequences to "tweak" an attribute or two. After all, that would by definition be "Intelligent Design".

I would be willing to guess these folks would be against that.
113 posted on 11/13/2005 5:29:12 PM PST by Rebel_Ace (Tags?!? Tags?!? We don' neeeed no stinkin' Tags!)
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To: Crackingham
".....Santorum: Don't put intelligent design in classroom........"

Thank God someones got some sense!!!!!!!!!!

114 posted on 11/13/2005 5:29:57 PM PST by DoctorMichael (The Fourth-Estate is a Fifth-Column!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
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To: furball4paws
You're going to get tired saying the same thing over and over. It gets old.

I am already tired. People like you wear me out by refusing to understand what I am saying.

The message is timeless. It will be true a million years from now if the human race still exists. That is the point. It is ancient and it is timeless, some truths are eternal and have to be stated again and again.

I have no use for stupid people. They have murdered millions. Only logical, rational, ruthlessly truthful people are going to change anything.

Go have fun. You might grow up some day. Life is more than having fun.

115 posted on 11/13/2005 5:30:47 PM PST by LogicWings
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To: LogicWings
Stop trashing language and the meaning of words. Thinking that the Theory of Evolution is an accurate portrayal of the reality of how species differentiated is not "faith."
"Faith" is a belief in the supernatural. Evolution rejects the notion of a supernatural.

Interesting, Evolution is a theory, has much evidence to support, and to suggest, but is not clearly and fully realized yet you believe in it. That DOES require some faith. Your faith is that the undiscovered will be discovered and answer the blanks. fill in the gaps, or to use a phrase fill in those "missing" links.

Don't lecture me on trashing of words and their meanings. You are conveniently predisposed to evolution being on solid enough ground as to be perfect in its presentation when it is still a work in much progress requiring more. Faith has meaning for you as well, here is your definition :Confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing.

116 posted on 11/13/2005 5:31:01 PM PST by ICE-FLYER (God bless and keep the United States of America)
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To: LibertarianInExile
The sad thing is I'm not even an aficionado of ID, but he did advocate it before and now he's flipping. I would rather elect a consistent, obvious lefty than a GOP waffler who'll screw you when you least expect it and need them on your side.

What this more than likely means is that Santorum really isn't that bright a bulb. It shows that he's likely not reasoned any of this out himself, even less reason to support him. If he had, then he'd not have changed his position.

I know of absolutely no one that upon reviewing the evidence pro/con for both theories in an intellectually honest and objective manner that has chosen evolution for any reason whatsoever.

117 posted on 11/13/2005 5:31:43 PM PST by Fruitbat
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To: Fruitbat
ID is backed by facts coming out the wazoo.

You do know that ID means man evolved from a simple organism over millions of years ...

118 posted on 11/13/2005 5:31:53 PM PST by WildTurkey (True Creationism makes intelligent design actually seem intelligent)
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To: The Ghost of FReepers Past

"Ah, this is just typical MSM pitting one religious person against another. Santorum is Catholic so he is pro-evolution."

Maybe Santorum reads to read THIS:

“Further, he (the Pope) seems to be cautioning those who have been claiming Church endorsement of the full-bodied, design-defeating version of Darwin's theory of evolution, which, after all, is often little more than philosophical materialism applied to science,” added Chapman.

Chapman noted that in his very first homily as Pope, Benedict XVI had rebuked the idea that human beings are mere products of evolution, and that, like his predecessor, John Paul II, the new Pope has a long record of opposition to scientific materialism.

excerpt from:

119 posted on 11/13/2005 5:32:45 PM PST by Sun (Hillary Clinton is pro-ILLEGAL immigration. Don't let her fool you. She has a D- /F immigr. rating.)
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To: FreeReign
Yes, the fossil record is replete with evidence of evolving species.

It sure looks that way! I'm glad you've noticed.

120 posted on 11/13/2005 5:32:45 PM PST by AntiGuv ()
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