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Mark Steyn: Bicultural Europe is doomed
The Telegraph (U.K.) ^ | 11/15/05 | Mark Steyn

Posted on 11/14/2005 2:13:32 PM PST by Pokey78

Three years ago -December 2002 - I was asked to take part in a symposium on Europe and began with the observation: "I find it easier to be optimistic about the futures of Iraq and Pakistan than, say, Holland or Denmark."

At the time, this was taken as confirmation of my descent into insanity. I can't see why. Compare, for example, the Iraqi and the European constitutions: which would you say reflected a shrewder grasp of the realities on the ground?

Or take last week's attacks in Jordan by a quartet of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi's finest suicide bombers. The day after the carnage, Jordanians took to the streets in their thousands to shout "Death to Zarqawi!" and "Burn in hell, Zarqawi!" King Abdullah denounced terrorism as "sick" and called for a "global fight" against it. "These people are insane," he said of the husband-and-wife couple dispatched to blow up a wedding reception.

For purposes of comparison, consider the Madrid bombing from March last year. The day after that, Spaniards also took to the streets, for their feebly tasteful vigil. Instead of righteous anger, they were "united in sorrow" - i.e. enervated in passivity. Instead of wishing death on the perpetrators, the preferred slogan was "Basta!" - "Enough!" - which was directed less at the killers than at Aznar and Bush. Instead of a leader who calls for a "global fight", they elected a government pledged to withdraw from any meaningful role in the global fight.

My point in that symposium was a simple one: whatever their problems, most Islamic countries have the advantage of beginning any evolution into free states from the starting point of relative societal cohesion. By contrast, most European nations face the trickier task of trying to hold on to their freedom at a time of increasing societal incoherence.

True, America and Australia grew the institutions of their democracy with relatively homogeneous populations, and then evolved into successful "multicultural" societies. But that's not what's happening in Europe right now. If you want to know what a multicultural society looks like, read the names of America's dead on September 11: Arestegui, Bolourchi, Carstanjen, Droz, Elseth, Foti, Gronlund, Hannafin, Iskyan, Kuge, Laychak, Mojica, Nguyen, Ong, Pappalardo, Quigley, Retic, Shuyin, Tarrou, Vamsikrishna, Warchola, Yuguang, Zarba. Black, white, Hispanic, Arab, Indian, Chinese - in a word, American.

Whether or not one believes in "celebrating diversity", that's a lot of diversity to celebrate. But the Continent isn't multicultural so much as bicultural. There are ageing native populations, and young Muslim populations, and that's it: "two solitudes", as they say in my beloved Quebec. If there's three, four or more cultures, you can all hold hands and sing We are the World. But if there's just two - you and the other - that's generally more fractious. Bicultural societies are among the least stable in the world, especially once it's no longer quite clear who is the majority and who is the minority - a situation that much of Europe is fast approaching, as you can see by visiting any French, Austrian, Belgian or Dutch maternity ward.

Take Fiji - not a comparison France would be flattered by, though until 1987 the Fijians enjoyed a century of peaceful stable constitutional evolution the French were never able to muster. At any rate, Fiji comprises native Fijians and ethnic Indians brought in as indentured workers by the British. If memory serves, 46.2 per cent are Fijians and 48.6 per cent are Indo-Fijians; 50-50, give or take, with no intermarrying. In 1987, the first Indian-majority government came to power. A month later, Col Sitiveni Rabuka staged the first of his two coups, resulting in the Queen's removal as head of state and Fiji being expelled from the Commonwealth.

Is it that difficult to sketch a similar situation for France? Even in relatively peaceful bicultural societies, politics becomes tribal: loyalists vs nationalists in Northern Ireland, separatists vs federalists in Quebec. Picture a French election circa 2020, 2025: the Islamic Republican Coalition wins the most seats in the National Assembly. The Chiraquiste crowd give a fatalistic shrug and Mr de Villepin starts including crowd-pleasing suras from the Koran at his poetry recitals. But would Mr Le Pen or (by then) his daughter take it so well? Or would the temptation to be France's Col Rabuka prove too much?

And the Fijian scenario - a succession of bloodless coups - is the optimistic one. After all, the differences between Fijian natives and Indians are as nothing compared with those between the French and les beurs. I love the way those naysayers predicting doom and gloom in Baghdad scoff that Iraq's a totally artificial entity and that, without some Saddamite strongman, Kurds, Sunnis and Shias can't co-exist in the same state. Oh, really? If Iraq's an entirely artificial entity, what do you call a state split between gay drugged-up red-light whatever's-your-bag Dutchmen and anti-gay anti-whoring anti-everything-you-dig Muslims? If Kurdistan doesn't belong in Iraq, does Pornostan belong in the Islamic Republic of Holland?

In a democratic age, you can't buck demography - except through civil war. The Yugoslavs figured that out. In the 30 years before the meltdown, Bosnian Serbs had declined from 43 per cent to 31 per cent of the population, while Bosnian Muslims had increased from 26 per cent to 44 per cent.

So Europe's present biculturalism makes disaster a certainty. One way to avoid it would be to go genuinely multicultural, to broaden the Continent's sources of immigration beyond the Muslim world. But a talented ambitious Chinese or Indian or Chilean has zero reason to emigrate to France, unless he is consumed by a perverse fantasy of living in a segregated society that artificially constrains his economic opportunities yet imposes confiscatory taxation on him in order to support an ancien regime of indolent geriatrics.

France faces tough choices and, unlike Baghdad, in Paris you can't even talk about them honestly. As Jean-Claude Dassier, director-general of the French news station LCI, told a broadcasters' conference in Amsterdam, he has been playing down the riots on the following grounds: "Politics in France is heading to the Right and I don't want Right-wing politicians back in second or even first place because we showed burning cars on television."

Oh, well. You can understand why the Quai d'Orsay is relaxed about Iran becoming the second Muslim nuclear power. As things stand, France is on course to be the third. You heard it here first. You probably won't hear it on Mr Dassier's station at all.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; Foreign Affairs; Germany; Government; News/Current Events; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: austria; belgium; britain; denmark; england; eu; eurabia; europe; europeanunion; euros; fiji; finland; france; frenchmuslims; germany; greatbritain; holland; iraq; ireland; italy; luxembourg; marksteyn; netherlands; norway; portugal; scotland; spain; steyn; sweden; themasteroflanguage; uk; unitedkingdom; wales
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1 posted on 11/14/2005 2:13:32 PM PST by Pokey78
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To: Pokey78

They're DOOMED!


2 posted on 11/14/2005 2:16:03 PM PST by Paladin2 (If the political indictment's from Fitz, the jury always acquits.)
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To: Howlin; riley1992; Miss Marple; deport; Dane; sinkspur; steve; kattracks; JohnHuang2; ...

Steyn ping!


3 posted on 11/14/2005 2:16:44 PM PST by Pokey78 (‘FREE [INSERT YOUR FETID TOTALITARIAN BASKET-CASE HERE]’)
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To: Pokey78

"But a talented ambitious Chinese or Indian or Chilean has zero reason to emigrate to France, unless he is consumed by a perverse fantasy of living in a segregated society that artificially constrains his economic opportunities yet imposes confiscatory taxation on him in order to support an ancien regime of indolent geriatrics."

Zing!


4 posted on 11/14/2005 2:21:20 PM PST by untrained skeptic
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To: Pokey78

Could you add me to your ping list? Thanks.


5 posted on 11/14/2005 2:23:01 PM PST by NZerFromHK (Alberta independentists to Canada (read: Ontario and Quebec): One hundred years is long enough)
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To: Pokey78

Steyn's the man.....!

And when Steyn takes to staining euroland, the strains show...


6 posted on 11/14/2005 2:23:09 PM PST by voletti (To go where no man has gone before....)
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To: Fair Go; Fred Nerks; Brian Allen; Piefloater; shaggy eel; Aussie Dasher

Ping!


7 posted on 11/14/2005 2:23:52 PM PST by NZerFromHK (Alberta independentists to Canada (read: Ontario and Quebec): One hundred years is long enough)
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To: Pokey78

BTTT


8 posted on 11/14/2005 2:25:02 PM PST by shield (The Greatest Scientific Discoveries of the Century Reveal God!!!! by Dr. H. Ross, Astrophysicist)
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To: Pokey78
But a talented ambitious Chinese or Indian or Chilean has zero reason to emigrate to France, unless he is consumed by a perverse fantasy of living in a segregated society that artificially constrains his economic opportunities yet imposes confiscatory taxation on him in order to support an ancien regime of indolent geriatrics.

That's got to leave a mark. I wish I had 1% of this man's wit.

9 posted on 11/14/2005 2:25:31 PM PST by MattinNJ (Allen/Pawlenty in 08-play the map.)
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To: Pokey78
But a talented ambitious Chinese or Indian or Chilean has zero reason to emigrate to France, unless he is consumed by a perverse fantasy of living in a segregated society that artificially constrains his economic opportunities yet imposes confiscatory taxation on him in order to support an ancien regime of indolent geriatrics.

God, he's good...

10 posted on 11/14/2005 2:25:36 PM PST by wizardoz
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To: Pokey78

Mark Steyn for President! (We need someone who can tell it the way it is and stop being so easily pushed by the left!)


11 posted on 11/14/2005 2:28:09 PM PST by onevoter
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To: Pokey78
"Politics in France is heading to the Right and I don't want Right-wing politicians back in second or even first place because we showed burning cars on television."

If you don't like French conservatives in power, wait till you get a load of Muslim conservatives in power. Fact of the matter is, within the next 20 years you're getting one or the other.

12 posted on 11/14/2005 2:29:28 PM PST by Steel Wolf (* No sleep till Baghdad! *)
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To: Pokey78

Au Revoir.

France deserves to be Doomed.

Thanks Mr. Steyn, Beautifully written.


13 posted on 11/14/2005 2:30:01 PM PST by chatham
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To: Pokey78

Another great article from Mark Steyn!! So, could you add me to your Mark Steyn ping list?


14 posted on 11/14/2005 2:31:08 PM PST by Irish_Thatcherite (~~~A vote for Bertie Ahern is a vote for Gerry Adams!~~~)
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To: untrained skeptic

Steyn is just something else, eh? Glad he's on our side.

"But a talented ambitious Chinese or Indian or Chilean has zero reason to emigrate to France, unless he is consumed by a perverse fantasy of living in a segregated society that artificially constrains his economic opportunities yet imposes confiscatory taxation on him in order to support an ancien regime of indolent geriatrics."


15 posted on 11/14/2005 2:34:38 PM PST by Alexander Rubin (Octavius - You make my heart glad building thus, as if Rome is to be eternal.)
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To: Pokey78
they were "united in sorrow" - i.e. enervated in passivity. Instead of wishing death on the perpetrators

It took a few months after 9/11 for yellow ribbons to come out and begin displacing the American flag, but it happened nonetheless.  So far, we haven't yearned our way to victory,  but at least we suppressed those tacky pictures of bodies falling from the Trade towers and other things that might have kept us outraged and supporting the war.
16 posted on 11/14/2005 2:35:05 PM PST by gcruse (http://gcruse.typepad.com)
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To: onevoter
Mark Steyn for President! (We need someone who can tell it the way it is and stop being so easily pushed by the left!)

He can't be - he's Canadian by birth. Now, if we were to install him as Supreme-Dictator-For-Life of Canuckistan, OTOH...

17 posted on 11/14/2005 2:35:32 PM PST by Slings and Arrows (Note for visitors at Arafat's grave - first dance, THEN pee.)
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Do you request others to shut up while speaking up yourself at every possible occasion?
- Do you ask others to respect agreements while systematically flaunting them yourself?
- Do you think Hitler was bad but Napoleon was good?
- Do you think De Gaulle liberated France?
- Do you vote for corrupt thieves and/or liars?
- Are you proud when companies from your country buy businesses abroad but you are opposed to the sale of your national companies to foreigners?
- Do you think a nation with a GDP 4 times less than yours should financially contribute more to the EU than your own country?
- Have you ever heard of Jacques Attali?
- Do you think 2 weeks of rioting and thousands of cars burnt, not mentioning schools etc., constitute "some isolated incidents"?
- Do you call Iraq an invasion and Ivory Coast a peacekeeping mission?
- Do you think healthcare and education are free because you never received a detailed bill with those items on them?
- Do you think Chirac and Sarkozy are right-wing politicians?
- Can you name two people who made poetry about seagulls?
- Do you think the UN should have more power and responsibilities?
- Do you approve of a commission deciding what words you may use and which ones should be excluded from your language?
- Do you think mimolette is a Dutch cheese?
- Is Total-Elf just a normal oil company in your opinion?
- Is Strasbourg the capital of the EU?
- Did Lance Armstrong dope himself?

If you answered "yes" to one question, you are possibly French.
If you answered "yes" to two questions, you are probably French.
If you answered "yes" to three questions or more, you are almost certainly French.


18 posted on 11/14/2005 2:35:34 PM PST by Fanter
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To: Pokey78

"If there's three, four or more cultures, you can all hold hands and sing We are the World. But if there's just two - you and the other - that's generally more fractious."


Let's start a Mexico-to-Europe trans-oceanic migration route.


19 posted on 11/14/2005 2:35:47 PM PST by Rennes Templar ("The future ain't what it used to be".........Yogi Berra)
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To: Pokey78

I love reading Steyn, but he makes me break out in a cold sweat nearly every time I do!


20 posted on 11/14/2005 2:37:11 PM PST by Gritty ("Iran may be the 2nd Muslim nuclear power. As things stand, France is on course to be 3rd-Mark Steyn)
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To: Pokey78

Could you add me to the Steyn ping list? THX


21 posted on 11/14/2005 2:38:44 PM PST by PMCarey
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To: Pokey78

bttt thanks


22 posted on 11/14/2005 2:39:37 PM PST by freeforall
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To: Pokey78
If Iraq's an entirely artificial entity, what do you call a state split between gay drugged-up red-light whatever's-your-bag Dutchmen and anti-gay anti-whoring anti-everything-you-dig Muslims? If Kurdistan doesn't belong in Iraq, does Pornostan belong in the Islamic Republic of Holland

That really paints a picture, doesn't it ?

23 posted on 11/14/2005 2:41:18 PM PST by Red Boots
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To: NZerFromHK

Sure!


24 posted on 11/14/2005 2:43:50 PM PST by Pokey78 (‘FREE [INSERT YOUR FETID TOTALITARIAN BASKET-CASE HERE]’)
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To: Pokey78
a talented ambitious Chinese or Indian or Chilean has zero reason to emigrate to France, unless he is consumed by a perverse fantasy of living in a segregated society that artificially constrains his economic opportunities yet imposes confiscatory taxation on him in order to support an ancien regime of indolent geriatrics.
25 posted on 11/14/2005 2:44:15 PM PST by T. Buzzard Trueblood (left unchecked, Saddam Hussein...will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons." Sen. Hillary Clinton)
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To: Irish_Thatcherite

Done.


26 posted on 11/14/2005 2:44:54 PM PST by Pokey78 (‘FREE [INSERT YOUR FETID TOTALITARIAN BASKET-CASE HERE]’)
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To: Pokey78

France is a quagmire ~ surrender, now!

Mark Steyn ~ Bump!


27 posted on 11/14/2005 2:45:06 PM PST by blackie (Be Well~Be Armed~Be Safe~Molon Labe!)
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To: PMCarey

Sure!


28 posted on 11/14/2005 2:45:55 PM PST by Pokey78 (‘FREE [INSERT YOUR FETID TOTALITARIAN BASKET-CASE HERE]’)
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To: Pokey78

Thanks!!


29 posted on 11/14/2005 2:46:17 PM PST by Irish_Thatcherite (~~~A vote for Bertie Ahern is a vote for Gerry Adams!~~~)
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To: Gritty

I get the same spine-tingling feeling myself--what in the hell will our children have to deal with if we do no face the music and quit calling Islam a religion of peace??


30 posted on 11/14/2005 2:46:23 PM PST by Tees Mom
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To: Red Boots

That was one of many incredible pictures painted by the genius Steyn in this piece. Bump!


31 posted on 11/14/2005 2:48:36 PM PST by eureka! (Hey Lefties: Only 3 and 1/4 more years of W. Hehehehe....)
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To: Fanter

None of the above.


32 posted on 11/14/2005 2:49:16 PM PST by Irish_Thatcherite (~~~A vote for Bertie Ahern is a vote for Gerry Adams!~~~)
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To: Fanter

You could be the future Jeff Foxworthy. You just have to rephrase the question:

"If you can name two people who wrote poetry about seagulls...you might be a Frenchman".

"If you think that the most important piece of equipment that a soldier can have is a good set of running shoes...you might be a Frnchman."


33 posted on 11/14/2005 2:50:43 PM PST by kidd
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To: Paladin2
"So Europe's present biculturalism makes disaster a certainty. One way to avoid it would be to go genuinely multicultural, to broaden the Continent's sources of immigration beyond the Muslim world. But a talented ambitious Chinese or Indian or Chilean has zero reason to emigrate to France, unless he is consumed by a perverse fantasy of living in a segregated society that artificially constrains his economic opportunities yet imposes confiscatory taxation on him in order to support an ancien regime of indolent geriatrics.

Classic Steyn!!

34 posted on 11/14/2005 2:51:37 PM PST by bubman
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To: Pokey78
France faces tough choices and, unlike Baghdad, in Paris you can't even talk about them honestly. As Jean-Claude Dassier, director-general of the French news station LCI, told a broadcasters' conference in Amsterdam, he has been playing down the riots on the following grounds: "Politics in France is heading to the Right and I don't want Right-wing politicians back in second or even first place because we showed burning cars on television."

Sounds like CBS, right?

35 posted on 11/14/2005 2:53:40 PM PST by RobbyS ( CHIRHO)
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To: Red Boots; Pokey78
I see we're all sharing our favorite quotes from this article (loved "Pornistan," btw), so here's mine, regarding the demonstrations in Spain by the left after the Madrid bombings:

"united in sorrow" - i.e. enervated in passivity

Spain and many other EU countries are madly in love with these stupid demonstrations, which they do every time they are attacked by ETA, Muslim terrorists, or practically the next door neighbor's poodle. But really, "enervated in passivity" sums it up, because they feel that by getting out and whining they have actually done something. And maybe they have, because whining is the only thing they are capable of doing any longer.

36 posted on 11/14/2005 2:54:30 PM PST by livius
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To: Pokey78

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1521978/posts


37 posted on 11/14/2005 2:55:07 PM PST by Clemenza (Save My Life I'm Going Down for the Last Time)
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To: Pokey78

It's insane. People with means will flee, and the rest will convert to Islam or die.


38 posted on 11/14/2005 2:55:56 PM PST by hershey
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To: Pokey78

39 posted on 11/14/2005 2:56:19 PM PST by Clemenza (Save My Life I'm Going Down for the Last Time)
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To: Tees Mom

The people in charge today are the teenagers and early 20's kids of the sixties. By far this is the most narcissitic generation on record, and if the recent votes in Seattle and San Francisco don't bear this out, nothing does. This is not getting fixed anytime soon, by anyone.

Tom McClintock wrote a piece that was posted here about the California Special Election that nailed it on the head.


40 posted on 11/14/2005 2:57:13 PM PST by RinaseaofDs
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To: Pokey78
Please add me to the Steyn Pinglist...please!

If you want to know what a multicultural society looks like, read the names of America's dead on September 11: Arestegui, Bolourchi, Carstanjen, Droz, Elseth, Foti, Gronlund, Hannafin, Iskyan, Kuge, Laychak, Mojica, Nguyen, Ong, Pappalardo, Quigley, Retic, Shuyin, Tarrou, Vamsikrishna, Warchola, Yuguang, Zarba. Black, white, Hispanic, Arab, Indian, Chinese - in a word, American.

41 posted on 11/14/2005 2:59:18 PM PST by Ethrane ("semper consolar")
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To: The Drowning Witch

Ping!


42 posted on 11/14/2005 3:00:21 PM PST by Jackknife ( "I bet after seeing us, George Washington would sue us for calling him 'father'." —Will Rogers)
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To: Pokey78

Another good one from Steyn.


43 posted on 11/14/2005 3:00:55 PM PST by Ciexyz (Let us always remember, the Lord is in control.)
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To: MattinNJ; Pokey78
I wish I had 1% of this man's wit.

You and me both. I wouldn't mind 1% of his brains, either. :)

And thank you for the ping, Pokey.

44 posted on 11/14/2005 3:01:27 PM PST by proud American in Canada
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To: RinaseaofDs

Typical French attitude towards everyone except terrorists:

"I fart in your general direction!"

"Your mother was a hamster and your father smelled of elderberries!"


45 posted on 11/14/2005 3:02:39 PM PST by Tzimisce
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To: Pokey78

Interesting....by the same logic Latin American immigration may be defusing our historic black-white issues.


46 posted on 11/14/2005 3:03:20 PM PST by Monti Cello
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To: Clemenza

Okay, that's scary.


47 posted on 11/14/2005 3:03:25 PM PST by Dog Gone
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To: Pokey78

If France collapses, it is likely the mess will wash onto Britain's shores. I love my country, but I need a future too. If that is what occurs, I have no choice but to leave.

Regards, Ivan


48 posted on 11/14/2005 3:04:24 PM PST by MadIvan (You underestimate the power of the Dark Side - http://www.sithorder.com/)
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To: Pokey78
God, that's great:

I love the way those naysayers predicting doom and gloom in Baghdad scoff that Iraq's a totally artificial entity and that, without some Saddamite strongman, Kurds, Sunnis and Shias can't co-exist in the same state. Oh, really? If Iraq's an entirely artificial entity, what do you call a state split between gay drugged-up red-light whatever's-your-bag Dutchmen and anti-gay anti-whoring anti-everything-you-dig Muslims?

49 posted on 11/14/2005 3:07:59 PM PST by GOPJ (Frenchmen should ask immigrants "Do you want to be Frenchmen?" not, "Will you work cheap?")
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To: RinaseaofDs
Tom McClintock wrote a piece that was posted here about the California Special Election that nailed it on the head.

Do you happen to have a link?

50 posted on 11/14/2005 3:16:58 PM PST by Warhammer (What, me worry?)
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