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Boeing Launches New 747-8 Family-- Cargolux and Nippon Cargo to buy up to 34 aircraft
Boeing.com ^ | Nov. 14, 2005 | Staff

Posted on 11/14/2005 11:28:55 PM PST by Paleo Conservative

-- 787 technologies to increase passenger and freighter capabilities, improve fuel efficiency, reduce noise and emissions, provide unmatched operating economics



SEATTLE, Nov. 14, 2005 -- The Boeing Company [NYSE: BA] today officially launched the new Boeing 747-8 program, which includes the 747-8 Intercontinental passenger airplane and the 747-8 Freighter airplane.

Cargolux, based in Luxembourg, has ordered 10 747-8 Freighters and will take delivery of the first 747-8F in third-quarter 2009. It also holds purchase rights for 10 additional airplanes. Cargolux currently operates an all-Boeing fleet of 13 747-400 freighters.

Nippon Cargo Airlines, based in Japan, has ordered eight 747-8 Freighters and will receive its first airplane in fourth-quarter 2009. The airline also acquired options for six additional airplanes. Nippon Cargo currently operates 13 747 freighters and has six more 747-400Fs on order.

Firm orders from the two launch customers are valued at approximately $5 billion at list prices.

"We are thrilled to have Cargolux and Nippon Cargo choose the new 747-8 and become the launch customers for this next generation of the proud and valuable 747 airplane family," said Alan Mulally, president and chief executive officer, Boeing Commercial Airplanes. "The 747-8 will use the technologies of the 787 Dreamliner to significantly increase the passenger and freighter capabilities of the 747 and offer greater fuel efficiency, improved operating economics, and be more friendly to the environment with reduced noise and emissions."

Both versions of the new 747 will feature GE's 787-technology GEnx engines, meet Stage 4 and QC2 noise requirements, have reduced emissions, offer lower trip costs and have an upgraded flight deck and an improved wing.

"The 747-8 Freighter will be very important in allowing Nippon Cargo to take advantage of the high expected cargo market growth in Asia," said Takuro Uchiyama, president and CEO, Nippon Cargo Airlines. "In addition, the 747-8 Freighter will be the world's most efficient cargo airplane, which is a key attribute with today's high cost of fuel."

Ulrich Ogiermann, president and CEO, Cargolux Airlines, said, "The Boeing 747-400 Freighter has been a cornerstone of our success, and I have high expectations that the 747-8 Freighter will build on that success and expand our capabilities worldwide. The increased payload capacity and much improved efficiency will allow us to continue our expansion and maximize our profitability. Equally important to us and the communities where we operate is the new standard the 747-8 Freighter will set in noise reduction."

The 747-8 Intercontinental passenger airplane will be stretched 3.6 m (11.7 ft) compared to the 747-400 to accommodate 34 additional seats in a typical three-class configuration. The only jetliner in the 400- to 500-seat category, it will have a range of 14,815 km (8,000 nmi) and will feature the new Boeing Signature Interior.

The Intercontinental will be quieter, produce fewer emissions, and achieve better fuel economy than any competing jetliner. It will offer 21 percent more lower-hold revenue cargo volume than the 747-400 and cost about 8 percent less per seat mile to operate. Compared to the A380, it will offer 22 percent lower trip costs.

The 747-8 Freighter will be 5.6 m (18.3 ft) longer than the 747-400 freighter. With a total payload capacity of 140 metric tonnes (154 tons), including tare weight, the 747-8F provides 16 percent more cargo revenue volume than the -400. The additional 117m³ (4,124 ft³) from the longer fuselage offers space for four additional main-deck pallets, two additional lower-hold pallets and two additional lower-hold containers. Cargo can be loaded and unloaded on the 747-8F using both the nose and side doors for maximum speed and efficiency.

Compared to the A380, the 747-8F will offer 20 percent lower trip costs. In addition, the 747-8F will maintain the operational flexibility of today's 747 freighters, with good profit potential at less-than-full loads.

The 747-8 Freighter complements the existing 747-400 freighter family, which is the air-cargo industry's standard. Both models accommodate 3.1-meter (10-foot) high pallets, providing operators with maximum flexibility.

The 747-8 also fits easily in today's aviation infrastructure, flying into more than 210 airports worldwide without additional, expensive infrastructure changes required.

The 747 freighter family currently constitutes more than half of the world's total freighter capacity. Boeing freighters of all models comprise more than 90 percent of the total worldwide freighter lift.

Boeing forecasts the need for about 900 airplanes -- passengers and freighters -- in the 400-plus-seat segment over the next 20 years. Boeing also forecasts that large widebody freighters (65 metric tons and above in capacity) will comprise 34 percent of the freighter market by 2024.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; US: Illinois; US: Missouri; US: Washington
KEYWORDS: 747; 7478; 747advanced; boeing
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Look at the new wing tips. There's no way you can mistake it for any previous 747 model.
1 posted on 11/14/2005 11:28:58 PM PST by Paleo Conservative
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To: COEXERJ145; microgood; liberallarry; cmsgop; shaggy eel; RayChuang88; Larry Lucido; namsman; ...

If you want on or off my aerospace ping list, please contact me by Freep mail.

2 posted on 11/14/2005 11:29:42 PM PST by Paleo Conservative (Hey hey ho ho Andy Heyward's got to go!)
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To: ImaGraftedBranch

Ping.


3 posted on 11/14/2005 11:34:19 PM PST by Ultra Sonic 007 (We DARE Defend Our Rights [Alabama State Motto])
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To: Paleo Conservative

Definitely looks different from the wings on the 744.

In addition, how difficult would it be for the engineers at Boeing to extend that upper deck all the way back to the tail, if they really needed to?? I am guessing that it would not be all that difficult. If Boeing truly needed to have an aircraft to compete with the A380, I am guessing it would be fairly simple for them to transform the 747, and avoid having to design a completely new aircraft from scratch.


4 posted on 11/14/2005 11:42:56 PM PST by Zetman (This secret to simple and inexpensive cold fusion intentionally left blank.)
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To: Paleo Conservative
The 747-8 also fits easily in today's aviation infrastructure, flying into more than 210 airports worldwide without additional, expensive infrastructure changes required.

Translation: Times are tough all over, why would you want to buy a plane, like the one below, that will require co$tly airport modifications?


5 posted on 11/14/2005 11:43:16 PM PST by Gamecock (Eternity is a long time to be wrong.)
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To: Paleo Conservative
Well this just put a kaput to the A380 freighter, and if it works good, look for the passenger derivative to follow. And Europe just wasted a whole lot of $ on the 380.

Wolf
6 posted on 11/14/2005 11:45:47 PM PST by RunningWolf (tag line limbo)
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To: Zetman
In addition, how difficult would it be for the engineers at Boeing to extend that upper deck all the way back to the tail, if they really needed to??

I'm not an aerospace engineer, but from what I've read, the hump is optimally placed in front of the wings. If it were moved back farther, it would increase drag. Boeing has some artists renderings of using the existing space behind the hump for crew rests, passenger bunk suites, conference centers and food cart storage areas.

7 posted on 11/14/2005 11:47:12 PM PST by Paleo Conservative (Hey hey ho ho Andy Heyward's got to go!)
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To: Paleo Conservative

I see now in the article they already have the passenger version.

GOOD BYE A380!!

Wolf


8 posted on 11/14/2005 11:48:45 PM PST by RunningWolf (tag line limbo)
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To: Paleo Conservative
"Look at the new wing tips. There's no way you can mistake it for any previous 747 model".

From what I understand, these "blended" winglets are actually more efficient than the vertical winglets seen on the 747-400 and 737 series (and most of the Airbus models).

Early on, Boeing had the insight to design 747 freighters with cargo access through the nose of the plane. Airbus did not design its new A380 freighter as such. This is one reason why 747 freighters are currently the only ones in the series that are selling.

Let's hope some orders for the passenger version of the 747-800 start coming in. Interesting that this version is about seven feet shorter than the cargo version.
9 posted on 11/14/2005 11:49:18 PM PST by CALawyer
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To: RunningWolf; Gamecock

Ditto to both your comments. This is just what the industry is looking for. There are considerable concerns about operating the A380. It's one thing to prepare the infrastructure at airports scheduled to handle the A380, but what about alternates? In the Midwest, for example, airports that can handle the A380 will be few and far between for many years. The same is true in Asia.


10 posted on 11/14/2005 11:53:19 PM PST by Rokke
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To: CALawyer
Interesting that this version is about seven feet shorter than the cargo version.

Notice that the upper deck of the cargo version will be an unstreched 200 series upper deck. The cargo version will allow four more pallets on the main deck (two pairs) and two more pallets in the lower hold. The pasenger version will be stretched both in the lower and upper decks. The lower cargo hold on it will have one more pallet position on each side.

11 posted on 11/15/2005 12:00:19 AM PST by Paleo Conservative (Hey hey ho ho Andy Heyward's got to go!)
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To: Zetman
Several years ago, Boeing actually had plans for a stretch version of the 747 that would have seated well over 500 passengers and competed with the Airbus A380. Airlines did not show any interest, so the project was dropped. The plan was to add plugs to the main fuselage that would have extended the length by around 35 feet, IIRC. The "hump" on top was to remain about the same length.

Back in the 1980s, McDonnell-Douglas had plans for a double decker (the "MD-12") that would have seated around 600 passengers. Again, there was not much interest in the plane. Based on the drawings, it was a far better looking aircraft than Airbus's whale jet.

The verdict is still out whether the A380 will even break even (especially considering the huge discounts reportedly given to the early customers).
12 posted on 11/15/2005 12:01:55 AM PST by CALawyer
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To: Paleo Conservative
"Notice that the upper deck of the cargo version will be an unstreched 200 series upper deck."

I just found this curious, since I believe the current 747-400 and 747-400F are identical in length. One would think Boeing would utilize the same length fuselage for both versions to cut back on some of the development costs, but I'm sure they (and their customers) know what they're doing.
13 posted on 11/15/2005 12:06:33 AM PST by CALawyer
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To: Paleo Conservative
I'm not an aerospace engineer, but from what I've read, the hump is optimally placed in front of the wings. If it were moved back farther, it would increase drag. Boeing has some artists renderings of using the existing space behind the hump for crew rests, passenger bunk suites, conference centers and food cart storage areas.

I was out looking at the Boeing web site a few months back, and I saw where they had modified a 747 to carry the 787 wings from the factory in Japan to the final assembly plant in the United States. To my eye, that 747 appeared to have had it's second level "hump" extended all the way back to the tail. Admittedly, the inside of the aircraft is completely hollow, to accomodate the cargo. However, from an "exterior" standpoint, it looks like they have already done it. You may be right, though. If they took all that empty space, and made it into 2 levels of passenger seating, maybe that would throw off the balance of the aircraft. Who knows?? I am not an engineer either!!

Incidently, the 744 already has two crew rest areas - one in the cockpit area, directly behind the two pilot's chairs (a seperate little room with 2 bunk beds), and another rest area in the base of the tail (with recliners and bunks to sleep 4 or 5 - I can't remember the exact number). I am not sure if other models of the 747 also have these, I only had access to 744's.
14 posted on 11/15/2005 12:07:51 AM PST by Zetman (This secret to simple and inexpensive cold fusion intentionally left blank.)
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To: Zetman
. To my eye, that 747 appeared to have had it's second level "hump" extended all the way back to the tail.

The whole upper fuselage is being rebuilt on those planes. Here's a link from an article I posted last February.

Boeing's 747 Large Cargo Freighter Development on Plan

15 posted on 11/15/2005 12:14:28 AM PST by Paleo Conservative (Hey hey ho ho Andy Heyward's got to go!)
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To: Zetman
Cant say for sure, but I would guess that modified 747 with the extended hump is flying those wings in that cargo compartment unpressurized, or at least not to the psi the flight deck is at. What say you?

Wolf
16 posted on 11/15/2005 12:15:00 AM PST by RunningWolf (tag line limbo)
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To: Rokke; Paleo Conservative
Image hosted by Photobucket.com

There are considerable concerns about operating the A380.

Well Rokke, now that you mention it, BA chief hints he may buy new Boeing, not Airbus

Is he positioning BA to get some deep discounts from Airbus or speaking the truth? Time will tell.

17 posted on 11/15/2005 12:21:08 AM PST by Gamecock (Eternity is a long time to be wrong.)
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To: Paleo Conservative
Here's another article that was just updated 10 minutes ago.

SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/6420AP_WA_Boeing_747.html

Tuesday, November 15, 2005 · Last updated 12:18 a.m. PT

Boeing launching new 747 airplane

By ALLISON LINN AP BUSINESS WRITER

SEATTLE -- Boeing Co. is launching bigger, more efficient versions of its 747 jumbo jet, in a move that will put more competitive pressure on rival Airbus SAS and ensure continued production of the storied airplane.

The Chicago-based company said late Monday that Luxembourg-based Cargolux Airlines International SA has ordered 10 freighter versions of the new airplane, dubbed the 747-8, with purchase rights for 10 more. Nippon Cargo Airlines of Japan has ordered eight of the freighter planes, with options for six more. Both airlines will begin receiving the planes in the latter half of 2009.

The firm orders from the two companies are worth $5 billion at list prices, although airlines typically negotiate steep discounts.

"We are thrilled to have Cargolux and Nippon Cargo choose the new 747-8 and become the launch customers for this next generation of the proud and valuable 747 airplane family," Alan Mulally, head of Boeing's Seattle-based commercial airplanes division, said in a statement.

The new airplanes will use technologies and General Electric Co. engines designed for Boeing's forthcoming 787 airplane to make the 747 quieter and more efficient, Mulally said.

The new passenger version of Boeing's four-engine widebody airplane will seat 450 people, up from 416 in the most current model, and will feature a redesigned interior. It will be nearly 12 feet longer than the current 747, and will be capable of flying 9,200 miles.

The freighter version will be about 18 feet longer than the current freighter model, the 747-400.

Both versions of the current 747 are nearly 232 feet long.

Analyst Richard Aboulafia said the 747-8 launch will likely increase pressure on rival Airbus, which is preparing for its superjumbo A380 to enter service next year. A new, slightly larger 747 could potentially reduce the market for Airbus's plane, a mammoth offering that can carry between 550 and 800 passengers in a doubledecker cabin.

"It helps box the A380 into an even smaller niche," Aboulafia said.

Airbus has won 159 firm orders for the A380 so far, at a list price of $292 million.

Boeing had been shopping a redesigned 747 around for more than a year, as it sought to garner enough interest to launch the new plane.

Without a new model, some had begun to question how long production would continue for the 747, a fabled workhorse that has been in the skies for 35 years. Boeing has recently seen business pick up somewhat for the freighter version of its current 747 model, but the company has not received an order for a passenger 747 in several years.

Aboulafia said he expects that the bulk of the orders for the new 747 will also be for the freighter version, but he thinks some passenger versions will be built.

"This would remove any uncertainty about the 747 line," he said.


18 posted on 11/15/2005 12:28:27 AM PST by Paleo Conservative (Hey hey ho ho Andy Heyward's got to go!)
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To: Paleo Conservative

Here's a cool website.

http://747.newairplane.com/


19 posted on 11/15/2005 12:33:41 AM PST by Paleo Conservative (Hey hey ho ho Andy Heyward's got to go!)
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To: CALawyer
From what I understand, these "blended" winglets are actually more efficient than the vertical winglets seen on the 747-400 and 737 series (and most of the Airbus models).

The curvature of the wing discourages the airflow from applying downward pressure to the top of the wing. Less down = more up. :-)

20 posted on 11/15/2005 12:40:37 AM PST by JoeSixPack1
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To: Gamecock
"Is he positioning BA to get some deep discounts from Airbus or speaking the truth?"

I currently fly MD-11's for FedEx. We are supposed to get the A380 in 2008. There is nothing we fly that Fred Smith didn't get a deep discount on. If BA is trying to get a discount even deeper than what has already been offered than they are expecting to get aircraft for free. Meanwhile, the cargo ramps of the world are absolutely teeming with 747 variants. All the equipment is in place for them. Everyone is used to dealing with them. Pilots are already trained to fly them. The list goes on.

And then there's this big airbus beast that is running late, overweight and over budget and looking for a place to wedge its way into the equation. Its future may be very interesting.

21 posted on 11/15/2005 1:09:08 AM PST by Rokke
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To: Paleo Conservative

Do you ever get the feeling that Boeing had all these ideas/plans for these new 747 variants in house, but "tricked" Airbus into developing their whale, which may well bankrupt them..


22 posted on 11/15/2005 3:38:16 AM PST by ken5050 (Ann Coulter needs to have children ASAP to pass on her gene pool....any volunteers?)
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To: Paleo Conservative

What Are Blended Winglets? fyi

• Winglets are a more efficient way of introducing effective span—an aerodynamic method to attain lower drag and improved take-off performance.
• Winglets increase effective wingspan for lower induced drag and higher lifting efficiency (higher L/D).
• Traditional winglets are attached at sharp angles.
• By blending the winglet to the wing, the wingtip vortex and the resulting drag are reduced and performance is improved.

The wing almost looks more like a swept wing although not the B-47 type. It looks more than just a blended wing or raked winglet as on the 737.


23 posted on 11/15/2005 4:02:33 AM PST by phantomworker (All roads lead back to Rome. Boldness has genius, power &magic in it..Begin your dissertation now!!)
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To: Paleo Conservative
SEATTLE -- Boeing Co. is launching bigger, more efficient versions of its 747 jumbo jet, in a move that will put more competitive pressure on rival Airbus SAS and ensure continued production of the storied airplane...

The firm orders from the two companies are worth $5 billion at list prices, although airlines typically negotiate steep discounts...

"This would remove any uncertainty about the 747 line," he said.

Interesting press releases on the day the new SPEEA Engineering contract is to be announced! I wonder what it means?

24 posted on 11/15/2005 4:07:31 AM PST by phantomworker (All roads lead back to Rome. Boldness has genius, power &magic in it..Begin your dissertation now!!)
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To: Paleo Conservative

Yea but it’s still not the A380 – I mean there’s no room in the 747-8 for a stand-up karaoke bar, a second floor shopping mall, an aerobic work-out center or even a piano lounge. ( I hate Airbus sarcasm ).

Great Job Mulally.


25 posted on 11/15/2005 6:19:02 AM PST by NavyCanDo
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To: Paleo Conservative
The reason is simple why Cargolux and Nippon Cargo Airlines chose the 787-8F freighter: it can handle lengthwise outsized loads that can't be handled by the A380-800F.

Because it shares a lot of commonality with the 747 freighters both Cargolux and NCA already flies, it also means less maintanence costs and easier flight crew training, too.

Interestingly enough, the A380-800F is better suited for UPS and FedEx because both companies primarily specialize in palletized cargo for transport by air, something that the A380-800F is very well-suited for.

26 posted on 11/15/2005 6:24:10 AM PST by RayChuang88
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To: Paleo Conservative; jb6

Isn't it the one which was designed in Moscow center of Boeing?


27 posted on 11/15/2005 6:41:34 AM PST by RusIvan ("THINK!" the motto of IBM)
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To: RusIvan
Isn't it the one which was designed in Moscow center of Boeing?

Yes.

28 posted on 11/15/2005 6:47:08 AM PST by Paleo Conservative (Hey hey ho ho Andy Heyward's got to go!)
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To: CALawyer

29 posted on 11/15/2005 7:13:31 AM PST by A.A. Cunningham
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To: ken5050
"Do you ever get the feeling that Boeing had all these ideas/plans for these new 747 variants in house, but "tricked" Airbus into developing their whale, which may well bankrupt them"

Yes I do. I don't know if they had a specific plan of attack (i.e. 787 followed today by the 747-8), but, I have long suspected that they got Airbus to commit to the A380 as the market for it does not exist.

Once, Airbag committed then Boeing begin to shop the replacement for the 767's, A330's etc. It is beginning to look like the 787 is going to be a home run! Meanwhile, operators can move to the new 747 and forget all the headaches and limitations of owning the A380.

Meanwhile, back at the Airbag ranch I wonder if "cashflow" is getting to be a problem?
30 posted on 11/15/2005 8:25:45 AM PST by lowbuck (The Blue Card (US Passport). . . Don't leave home without it!)
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To: Paleo Conservative
Compared to the A380, it will offer 22 percent lower trip costs.

Ok, so this means the same flight with the new airplane costs 22 percent less than the A380, but if the A380 carries 22+% (not saying thats the case, just speculating) more than this plane, doesn't that even out or even help the A380 beat it on a per pound basis?

I love those blended wingtips. Sure, its just an aesthetic thing for me, but it looks sweet!

31 posted on 11/15/2005 8:27:42 AM PST by Paradox (Just because we are not perfect, does not mean we are not good.)
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To: ken5050

Airbus developed the A380 (as well as their other jets) using funds loaned at sweetheart rates from the European governments that are the majority owners of EADS, the parent company of Airbus. These loans do not have to be repaid if the aircraft does not make a profit. Short of a Soviet Union-style collapse of the EU, it is not possible to bankrupt Airbus any more than it is possible to bankrupt the U.S. Postal Service. Note that Boeing has sued Airbus in front of the WTO over these subsidies, which appear to be illegal under international trade agreements.


32 posted on 11/15/2005 9:32:44 AM PST by Turbopilot (Nothing in the above post is or should be construed as legal research, analysis, or advice.)
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To: Turbopilot

Thanks for the info, and the clarification..


33 posted on 11/15/2005 9:39:58 AM PST by ken5050 (Ann Coulter needs to have children ASAP to pass on her gene pool....any volunteers?)
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To: Paleo Conservative
Paleo Conservative ?

I know we got the official news today, but, was it's yesterday at corporate headquarters that the launch of the 747 - 800 announced ?
I know it was just launched, but, I was wondering ? in 3 - 6 months ( if they get some more cargo and pax orders ) I wonder were the orders of the 747-800 be ?
How many orders so far for the A-380 so far since it's launch ?
It would be interesting to see if the 747-800 surpasses the A-380 in orders in about a year or so.
34 posted on 11/15/2005 9:46:56 AM PST by Prophet in the wilderness (PSALM 53 : 1 The FOOL hath said in his heart , There is no GOD .)
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To: Paleo Conservative

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051115/ap_on_bi_ge/boeing747;_ylt=AoAtLgztSoHzVGvZrgp_tseyBhIF;_ylu=X3oDMTA5aHJvMDdwBHNlYwN5bmNhdA--


35 posted on 11/15/2005 9:50:28 AM PST by Prophet in the wilderness (PSALM 53 : 1 The FOOL hath said in his heart , There is no GOD .)
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To: lowbuck

Boeing just let Airbus slit their throats on their own.

Airbus wanted to be able to brag that they had the biggest commercial jet for passengers in the world. Only problem, its designed for maximum passenger numbers, not efficency. The A380 is a total gas hog. Boeing looked towards the future and believed it was in highly efficient 2 and 4 engine planes that could fly long distances, not just big planes to major hubs, and then getting on smaller planes. Huge waste of time and fuel.
At the A380 premier at the Paris airshow this past year, Chirac was at the podium bragging about how superior Airbus was to Boeing now.

Boeing had a different vision, and while Airbus spent the past couple years whining and bitching about Boeing endlessly, Boeing took the high road and quietly started putting these plans in motion (787 and 777 LR and 747advanced).
Whenever you see a commercial for a major carrier, you'll see them flying a 747. That airplane is considered the pride of many asian carriers fleet.

I'm glad to hear they are going to build the 747advanced. The 747 is the greatest commercial airliner ever built and would be a shame to see it end being built.

Airbus slit their own throats. Good, the guy who runs it is a slimeball.


36 posted on 11/15/2005 9:53:36 AM PST by Proud_USA_Republican (We're going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good. - Hillary Clinton)
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To: Paleo Conservative
" At a news conference in London, Mulally said the company expected to win the first orders for the passenger version next year. " .....

I guess we can take a good guess that he is personally involved in negotiations in trying to get British Airlines to order some of the pax versions of the 747-800 ( in a indirect way, being the launch costumer of the pax version of the 747-800 ).
37 posted on 11/15/2005 9:55:35 AM PST by Prophet in the wilderness (PSALM 53 : 1 The FOOL hath said in his heart , There is no GOD .)
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To: Zetman
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1346512/posts.


38 posted on 11/15/2005 10:02:18 AM PST by Prophet in the wilderness (PSALM 53 : 1 The FOOL hath said in his heart , There is no GOD .)
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To: Prophet in the wilderness

British Airways might end up being the passenger version launch customer. BA loves the 747 for its international travel routes.

But what might also happen is that airlines like Quantas and Sinapore will dump some of the A380 orders it has for the new 747 as well. They probably negotiated firm orders for A380s and options for more. They could kill the option orders easily and given all the problems Airbus has had trying to get the weight of the A380 down to what they promised the airlines when they signed the contracts, carriers might be able to pull out of the firm order contracts for the A380 a lot easier.



39 posted on 11/15/2005 10:04:33 AM PST by Proud_USA_Republican (We're going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good. - Hillary Clinton)
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To: Zetman
http://www.boeing.com/news/releases/2004/photorelease/q3/pr_040803g.html>





http://www.boeing.com/commercial/777family/longer_range/lr_back3.html#overhead>






40 posted on 11/15/2005 10:13:16 AM PST by Prophet in the wilderness (PSALM 53 : 1 The FOOL hath said in his heart , There is no GOD .)
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To: Proud_USA_Republican
Here is a very telling sign:

" Willie Walsh, the chief executive of British Airways, delivered a snub to Airbus yesterday by saying there were "big question marks" over its A380 superjumbo and indicating the airline was potentially interested in buying the stretched Boeing 747 about to be launched by its rival. "

I was wondering ? from this article, it says that BA can " exchange " some 747-400 for new 747-800, does that mean they were leased ? or will Boeing lease them back, or buy them back, and convert them to cargo planes ?
Boeing can still find a market were they can sell some used 747-400 converted to cargo versions.
( from the Independent Online article: BA chief hints he may buy new Boeing, not Airbus ) " BA has 57 Boeing 747-400s in its fleet, the oldest of which is 16 years. They seat 413 passengers in a standard three-class configuration. It is considering exchanging some for the new 747 Advanced, which will have an extra 30-40 seats. "
41 posted on 11/15/2005 10:27:05 AM PST by Prophet in the wilderness (PSALM 53 : 1 The FOOL hath said in his heart , There is no GOD .)
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To: Paleo Conservative

Boeing only needs 125 orders of the 747-800 pax or cargo to surpass the A-380


42 posted on 11/15/2005 10:28:57 AM PST by Prophet in the wilderness (PSALM 53 : 1 The FOOL hath said in his heart , There is no GOD .)
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To: A.A. Cunningham

43 posted on 11/15/2005 10:43:50 AM PST by Yo-Yo
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To: ken5050
Yes.. and not only that, they already had a slight version of the 747-800 in the 747-400XQLR .... but, it was not a stretched version, and it didn't have some of the 787 tech in it.
Boeing has had a few derivatives in study for years now, including the 747-X planes ( one of them would have been as big as the A380, with a totally new wing ).
And the studies from the 787 also gave Boeing the advantage to incorporate the tech into the new 747-800.
The thing about the 747-800 is that it will be the best replacement plane for the old 747-400 ( and that is a huge market to replace all of those 747-400s if the airlines chose to do so )... and Boeing is doing this derivative with the least cost possible ( that is to say, cost, as in risk, and capital, but, not in quality and innovation ).
44 posted on 11/15/2005 10:53:05 AM PST by Prophet in the wilderness (PSALM 53 : 1 The FOOL hath said in his heart , There is no GOD .)
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To: NavyCanDo
You forgot the bowling ally that AirBus promised.
Imagine that ? trying to have a game at the bowling ally, and the plane makes a right banking turn.
45 posted on 11/15/2005 10:57:26 AM PST by Prophet in the wilderness (PSALM 53 : 1 The FOOL hath said in his heart , There is no GOD .)
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To: lowbuck
" Meanwhile, back at the Airbag ranch I wonder if "cashflow" is getting to be a problem? " .....

Airbus is going to have to ask the EU for more money down the drain.
Their economies are really in bad shape now, and for Airbus to go to the EU for more money is going to put a strain on their economies.
46 posted on 11/15/2005 11:03:35 AM PST by Prophet in the wilderness (PSALM 53 : 1 The FOOL hath said in his heart , There is no GOD .)
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To: Prophet in the wilderness

Today, Flight International (www.flightinternational.com) had an article about how tight the market for new and used (including converted) wide body freighter is.

Seems that some of the "cargo only" carriers are having to step up to new aircraft. Yet some more positive news for Boeing.


47 posted on 11/15/2005 11:11:18 AM PST by lowbuck (The Blue Card (US Passport). . . Don't leave home without it!)
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To: lowbuck
You know what this means ? this could possibly open the door wide open for 747-800 orders.
I guess cargo airlines, and pax airlines will sell, trade in, or lease back the old 747-400s, and those old 747-400s pax versions will be converted to cargo to airlines who can't afford the new 747-800, and this will open the door for many 747-800 orders.
Maybe we will soon ( in the next year ) see orders for the 747-800 surpass the A-380 in the next year.
48 posted on 11/15/2005 11:20:01 AM PST by Prophet in the wilderness (PSALM 53 : 1 The FOOL hath said in his heart , There is no GOD .)
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To: Prophet in the wilderness

There is an old saying about the EU. . . "That's it's a French project financed by the Germans".

However, Germany is bust and France is not much better off. Together with the WTO complaint the low cost (free if you don't make a profit) government loans may not emerge.

Can you say, Bye, Bye 350!!


49 posted on 11/15/2005 11:24:47 AM PST by lowbuck (The Blue Card (US Passport). . . Don't leave home without it!)
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To: Prophet in the wilderness

If it's a coordinated turn the normal force will still be perpendicular to the floor...I'd be much more worried about turbulence, although a shaking lane might actually improve my score :-p


50 posted on 11/15/2005 11:26:11 AM PST by Turbopilot (Nothing in the above post is or should be construed as legal research, analysis, or advice.)
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