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Doing Unto Others as They Did Unto Us
The New York Times ^ | Nov. 14, 2005 | Greg Bloche and Jonathan Marks

Posted on 11/15/2005 6:18:31 AM PST by MurryMom

Washington — How did American interrogation tactics after 9/11 come to include abuse rising to the level of torture? Much has been said about the illegality of these tactics, but the strategic error that led to their adoption has been overlooked.

The Pentagon effectively signed off on a strategy that mimics Red Army methods. But those tactics were not only inhumane, they were ineffective. For Communist interrogators, truth was beside the point: their aim was to force compliance to the point of false confession.

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: bush; hypocrisy; murrymom; neeener; neener; pinata; sogladivotedforbush; torture; twice
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Just another example of the Bush Administration having no respect for the truth.
1 posted on 11/15/2005 6:18:31 AM PST by MurryMom
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To: MurryMom

If we play by all the rules and they don't, it is like the patriots and the red-coats, is it not?


2 posted on 11/15/2005 6:20:19 AM PST by bboop (Stealth Tutor)
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To: MurryMom
Always amazing how supposed "Conservatives" are so eager to repeat every lie spewed out by the Dinosaur Media. Funny how they are always so hysterically worried about the terrorists but never can every express even the slightest concern for the Terrorists victims. Funny how eager some "Conservatives" are to spread propaganda for people who rape, torture and murder captives.
3 posted on 11/15/2005 6:21:02 AM PST by MNJohnnie (100% of Islamic Terrorists disapprove of the job President Bush is doing)
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.


4 posted on 11/15/2005 6:21:06 AM PST by tiredoflaundry ("Yoot" - French for Muslim Rioters)
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To: MurryMom
Just another example of the Bush Administration having no respect for the truth.

Based on something written in the NYT?!

Snort.

5 posted on 11/15/2005 6:22:59 AM PST by mewzilla (Property must be secured or liberty cannot exist. John Adams)
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To: MurryMom

"Torture" is reading the NY Times every day.


6 posted on 11/15/2005 6:23:31 AM PST by 68skylark
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To: MurryMom
Yeah, these two really have the qualification to tell us anything about National Security. Here are the bios for the latest set of NY Times Hate Bush Always Editorial columnists.

Maxwell Gregg Bloche

Professor of Law; Co-Director, Georgetown-Johns Hopkins Joint Program in Law and Public Health

B.A., Columbia; J.D., M.D., Yale

Expertise: health care financing law & policy, biomedical ethics, regulatory & contractual approaches to health risk.

Contact this faculty member (new window will open) Dr. Bloche teaches and writes on U.S. and international health law and policy. His work has appeared in medical and health policy journals, law reviews, books, newspapers, and on-line media. Dr. Bloche received a Robert Wood Johnson Foundation Investigator Award in Health Policy Research for 1997-2000 to support his research and writing on the legal and regulatory governance of managed care organizations, and he edited and contributed to The Privatization of Health Care Reform: Legal and Regulatory Perspectives (Oxford Univ. Press, 2003). Other recent publications include The Invention of Health Law (California Law Review, March 2003), Trust and Betrayal in the Medical Marketplace (Stanford Law Review, Dec. 2002), and WTO Deference to National Health Policy: Toward an Interpretive Principle (Journal of Int’l Economic Law, Dec. 2002). Dr. Bloche is a member of the Institute of Medicine’s Committee on Understanding and Eliminating Racial and Ethnic Disparities in Health Care and the Committee on Scientific Freedom and Responsibility of the American Association for the Advancement of Science. He also serves on the advisory boards of several journals and non-profit organizations. Dr. Bloche has been a member of the board of Physicians for Human Rights and a consultant to South Africa’s Truth and Reconciliation Commission (on human rights in the health sector), the Federal Judicial Center, the National Institutes of Health, the World Health Organization, and other private and public bodies.

Dr. Bloche received his M.D. and J.D. from Yale University and his B.A. from Columbia University. Before joining Georgetown’s faculty in 1989, he completed his residency in psychiatry at the Columbia-Presbyterian Medical Center. He received several awards for research and scholarship as a resident physician and law student, and he was an editor of the Yale Law Journal. Between college and medical school, Dr. Bloche spent a year as a reporter for the Dallas Times Herald. More recently, he has contributed commentaries to the Washington Post, Los Angeles Times, other newspapers, and National Public Radio’s Morning Edition.

7 posted on 11/15/2005 6:26:04 AM PST by MNJohnnie (100% of Islamic Terrorists disapprove of the job President Bush is doing)
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To: MurryMom

What's your point MM?I have to register to read the rest of the article?From what i can read,it sounds like another bull@hit piece from the NYTimes.


8 posted on 11/15/2005 6:27:14 AM PST by Thombo2
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To: MurryMom
I have never seen any indication that you know anything of the truth. Using the New York Times to search for the truth is comparable to trying to drink your way to it.

This mendacious rag is a laughingstock as exemplified by the lies it spreads about our military. It is particularly hilarious to find it condemning the Communists for their actions in the past. When they were happening it could not wait to attack those patriots trying to undercover the Communists infiltrating the institutions of our nation.

Was one word of the domination of the New York City teachers' union by the Communist Party ever printed? Do the editors think we have forgotten the numerous articles they printed warning of the dangers of Saddam when the Bufoon was in office? Do they think they can get away with their rewriting of history by claiming that Bush, by starting what had been said by hundreds of DemocRATs during the nineties, lied? In the past they could have gotten away with it but as long as patriots have FR they cannot.
9 posted on 11/15/2005 6:27:36 AM PST by justshutupandtakeit (Public Enemy #1, the RATmedia.)
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To: MurryMom
And here is the bio on the other Terrorist propagandist writing in the NY Lies

Jonathan Marks

Department of Sociology and Anthropology

UNC-Charlotte

Research areas:

Primate / Human evolution, race, molecular genetics and evolution, general physical anthropology, history of studies of human evolution and variation, anthropology of science, critical studies in human genetics, general anthropology

10 posted on 11/15/2005 6:28:28 AM PST by MNJohnnie (100% of Islamic Terrorists disapprove of the job President Bush is doing)
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To: tiredoflaundry

I think you forgot something in your post.


11 posted on 11/15/2005 6:28:30 AM PST by satchmodog9 ( Seventy million spent on the lefts Christmas present and all they got was a Scooter)
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To: MurryMom
Haven't seen you in a while. I guess your "big wins" in Virginia and New Jersey (i.e. holding onto Democrat governships) have emboldened you.

Isn't that nice.

12 posted on 11/15/2005 6:30:15 AM PST by NittanyLion
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To: MurryMom

Just another example of the New York Times having no respect for the truth.


13 posted on 11/15/2005 6:31:46 AM PST by An.American.Expatriate (Here's my strategy on the War against Terrorism: We win, they lose. - with apologies to R.R.)
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To: bboop

Exactly. Don't set the rules for us when they don't abide them.


14 posted on 11/15/2005 6:32:19 AM PST by CommieCutter
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To: satchmodog9

Nope, just a placemark.


15 posted on 11/15/2005 6:32:36 AM PST by tiredoflaundry ("Yoot" - French for Muslim Rioters)
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To: MurryMom

How is it your are still here? You purposely post crap like this to provoke people. The NYT has zero credibility, yet you use it to call Bush a liar. Typical liberal..


16 posted on 11/15/2005 6:33:37 AM PST by cardinal4 ("One man gone and another to go....")
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To: MurryMom

Why don't you stick to posting your racist comments over on the Pennsylvania abduction threads? You're obviously in over your head when it comes to politics.


17 posted on 11/15/2005 6:35:31 AM PST by ErnBatavia (Frist would be a great Majority Leader if he had 65 seats..make that 75)
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To: MurryMom

imagine this....Murrytroll also parrots the MSM.

Amazingly enough, I'm NOT surprised.


18 posted on 11/15/2005 6:36:31 AM PST by MikefromOhio (We don't give a damn for the WHOLE state of Michigan.....)
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To: MurryMom
How did American interrogation tactics after 9/11 come to include abuse rising to the level of torture?

Is this a news article or an editorial?

I ask because the first line is clearly an opinion, and most likely, based upon a false understanding of the term "torture".
19 posted on 11/15/2005 6:37:18 AM PST by Paloma_55 (Which part of "Common Sense" do you not understand???)
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To: MNJohnnie

Ever hear of DU infiltrators who post on FR?


20 posted on 11/15/2005 6:38:33 AM PST by Paloma_55 (Which part of "Common Sense" do you not understand???)
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To: MNJohnnie

Murrymom is not a conservative. She is our resident liberal idiot. She comes up, spews out her hatred of all things not liberal and not Anti-American, gets slapped down, and goes off and pouts for a while, then comes back and repeats the same MO.


21 posted on 11/15/2005 6:38:54 AM PST by Redleg Duke (9/11 - "WE WILL NEVER FORGET!")
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To: MurryMom
According to Democrats and the NYT, sleep deprivation and loud threats are considered torture.

What do you propose?

Taking away their television privileges? No more cookies and milk before bed?
22 posted on 11/15/2005 6:40:50 AM PST by Mr. Brightside
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To: ErnBatavia
You're obviously in over your head when it comes to politics.

At least I participated on the winning side in PA last year. If I'm "in over my head" then what derogatory comments would you have to say about the PA losers?

23 posted on 11/15/2005 6:40:56 AM PST by MurryMom
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To: 68skylark

"All The News That's Shi'ite To Print"


24 posted on 11/15/2005 6:41:59 AM PST by sheik yerbouty ( Make America and the world a jihad free zone!)
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To: MikeinIraq

Look at the idiots posting history. Strange amalgamation of spew.


25 posted on 11/15/2005 6:43:04 AM PST by satchmodog9 ( Seventy million spent on the lefts Christmas present and all they got was a Scooter)
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To: Thombo2
O.K., here's another excerpt from the article. Unfortunately I can't move the keys on your computer so that you can register.

By bringing SERE tactics and the Guantánamo model onto the battlefield, the Pentagon opened a Pandora's box of potential abuse. On Nov. 26, 2003, for example, an Iraqi major general, Abed Hamed Mowhoush, was forced into a sleeping bag, then asphyxiated by his American interrogators. We've obtained a memorandum from one of these interrogators - a former SERE trainer - who cites command authorization of "stress positions" as justification for using what he called "the sleeping bag technique."

"A cord," he explained, "was used to limit movement within the bag and help bring on claustrophobic conditions." In SERE, he said, this was called close confinement and could be "very effective." Those who squirmed or screamed in the sleeping bag, he said, were "allowed out as soon as they start to provide information."

Three soldiers have been ordered to stand trial on murder charges in General Mowhoush's death. Yet the Pentagon cannot point to any intelligence gains resulting from the techniques that have so tarnished America's image. That's because the techniques designed by communist interrogators were created to control a prisoner's will rather than to extract useful intelligence.

26 posted on 11/15/2005 6:44:29 AM PST by MurryMom
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To: Mr. Brightside
According to Democrats and the NYT, sleep deprivation and loud threats are considered torture.

According to the article, murder of an Iraqi general was also condoned by the Bush administration goons who set up the SERE program. Do you agree with the Bush administration on this one?

27 posted on 11/15/2005 6:46:55 AM PST by MurryMom
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To: MurryMom

Respect for truth? Coming from you, that's rich.


28 posted on 11/15/2005 6:47:03 AM PST by Petronski (Cyborg is the greatest blessing I have ever known.)
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To: MurryMom
Just another example of the Bush Administration having no respect for the truth.

And whose definition of "truth" do you subscribe to? Slick Willy's, perhaps?

29 posted on 11/15/2005 7:08:29 AM PST by OB1kNOb (We're gonna boogie oogie woogie til we just can't boogie no more..............)
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To: MurryMom

"Unfortunately i can't move the keys on your computer so that you can register."Registration,NYTimes.Is that your agenda?


30 posted on 11/15/2005 7:13:21 AM PST by Thombo2
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To: MurryMom
I couldn't care less about your state's elections...now, why don't you go back and clean up your kneejerk, bigoted assumptions that David Ludwig was a black kid stealing a white girl?

C'mon, Mom....you can do it; I know you can.

31 posted on 11/15/2005 7:17:41 AM PST by ErnBatavia (Frist would be a great Majority Leader if he had 65 seats..make that 75)
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To: MurryMom
According to the article

There is no news article printed in the NY slimes that has even a sliver of credibility. They are simply the propaganda arm of the DNC. The muslims can never be trusted because of taqiyya, especially when it is a member of the enemies of freedom.

I believe the Administration and the military, The very few soldiers who have legitimately broken the law have been given court marshalls or other punishment. The military has been the ones bringing these case to light not the NYTCBSABCCNNNPR anti American media I'm sure you get all your propaganda from. The US Military is full of men of honor who for little pay or recognition protect the American Citizens. Honor is something the creeps of the NYTs know nothing about.

32 posted on 11/15/2005 7:20:27 AM PST by federal
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To: federal
The very few soldiers who have legitimately broken the law have been given court marshalls or other punishment.

If our soldiers are allowed to "legitimately" break the law there must not be much hope of convincing our Muslim bretheren that Coalition soldiers are in Iraq to protect its citizens from their forcefully deposed elected officials.

33 posted on 11/15/2005 7:27:47 AM PST by MurryMom
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To: Thombo2
I can't believe you are asking MurryMom what her point is. She is FreeRepublics resident Commie-witch, except with a B of-course.   
34 posted on 11/15/2005 7:28:13 AM PST by sinclair (It's probably a good thing I'm not in charge of stuff.)
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To: sinclair

"FreeRepublics resident commie..."What's she doing here?


35 posted on 11/15/2005 7:33:52 AM PST by Thombo2
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To: MurryMom

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzz........snorp.....huh?....oh, it's MurryMom.....chemahem.....zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ.............


36 posted on 11/15/2005 7:34:20 AM PST by facedown (Armed in the Heartland)
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To: Thombo2

Making a fool of herself as usual.


37 posted on 11/15/2005 7:38:51 AM PST by sinclair (It's probably a good thing I'm not in charge of stuff.)
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To: MurryMom

Typical dim word twisting, its ashamed you don't realize how foolish you sound. You know as in ACTUALLY broke laws instead of some bogus charge dreamed up by a muslim or a dim moonbat. Oh an by the way how have the muslims treated our prisoners they have captured, did they get TV priviledges

As far a muslim brethern goes, you may feel some kinship with people who enslave women, children, persons of other religions but I don't. When I see islamic fascists who behead others because they are a different religion I don't feel any need to understand them, or maybe its that I do understand them. Maybe you should learn more about them since they would kill you just as quick as they would me, probably sooner because I'm armed and I intend to fight back.

The fact is we are in a war with these 6 century slugs to the death, I will never knell to the moon god nor worship a thieving, killing, stealing pedophile. Therefore I am their enemy "A infidel", hey that doesn't bother me as a matter of fact I'm proud to be against everything they stand for.


38 posted on 11/15/2005 7:46:20 AM PST by federal
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To: MurryMom

Where was your outrage when Nick Berg was beheaded?


39 posted on 11/15/2005 8:13:18 AM PST by Eagle Eye (There ought to be a law against excess legislation.)
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To: cardinal4
She's still here because everyone keeps feeding the troll.

What can be done about trolls?

40 posted on 11/15/2005 8:22:57 AM PST by ru4liberty (Ann fan no more)
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To: bboop; tiredoflaundry; justshutupandtakeit; MNJohnnie; mewzilla; 68skylark; NittanyLion; ...

41 posted on 11/15/2005 9:01:38 AM PST by CovenBuster (Bustin' up liberal covens from coast to coast)
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To: CovenBuster

GREAT Cartoon! Thank you for brining it to our attention.


42 posted on 11/15/2005 9:10:34 AM PST by MNJohnnie (100% of Islamic Terrorists disapprove of the job President Bush is doing)
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To: MurryMom
MurryMom; {AKA Accessory to Mass Murder after the fact.} I am curious how you sleep at night knowing your are actively aiding the propaganda efforts of people who rape, murder and torture unarmed undefended civilians in the name of their "Religion"?

You are actively aiding and abetting people who raped, tortured and murdered children at Beslan last year.

Spare us your fraudulent "moralizing". You have blood on your hands and can never get it off. You are actively and knowingly serving as a mouth piece for Osama Bin Laden and Saddam Hussein. Hussein by the way has the innocent blood of millions of his own people on his hands. So spare us your hyper hysteric propaganda you willing Accessory to Mass Murder after the fact.

43 posted on 11/15/2005 9:19:59 AM PST by MNJohnnie (100% of Islamic Terrorists disapprove of the job President Bush is doing)
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To: MurryMom

Stupid since

MurryMom
Since May 15, 1998


44 posted on 11/15/2005 9:21:54 AM PST by bmwcyle (We broke Pink's Code and found a terrorist message)
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To: MurryMom
Just another example of the Bush Administration having no respect for the truth.

A Clinton kneepad wearer has no standing to evaluate anyone's truthfulness. Heck they aren't even qualified to define the word "is"

45 posted on 11/15/2005 9:22:04 AM PST by NeoCaveman (ANWR is national security, RINO's keep us dependent on foreign oil, aiding our enemies)
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To: MNJohnnie; MurryMom
So spare us your hyper hysteric propaganda you willing Accessory to Mass Murder after the fact.

Woah, she better put some ice on that....

46 posted on 11/15/2005 9:22:44 AM PST by NeoCaveman (ANWR is national security, RINO's keep us dependent on foreign oil, aiding our enemies)
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To: MurryMom
At least I participated on the winning side in PA last year.

You and 500,000 dead Philadelphians.

47 posted on 11/15/2005 9:29:33 AM PST by NittanyLion
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To: MurryMom

if you are willing to foot the bill for housing terrorists at the 4 or 5 star hotel of your choice, by all means go for it.


48 posted on 11/15/2005 10:15:38 AM PST by NoClones
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To: NoClones
It's pretty obvious that the old adage, "you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar" applies to this intelligence gathering operation.

Other approaches with prisoners are much more effective than torture. If all of the Iraq citizens that we pick up in our sweeps were fairly and humanely treated during their stay with us it would be extremely effective as public relations toward demonstrating that we are there to help them. In a controlled environment such as a detention center, intelligence agents can be mixed in with the population and quickly get much more info than by torture.

The only downside to a more humane approach is that sadistic christofascists in the Bush Administration won't have any fun.

49 posted on 11/15/2005 10:54:37 AM PST by MurryMom
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To: mewzilla
Based on something written in the NYT?! Snort.

My sentiments exactly.

50 posted on 11/15/2005 11:11:06 AM PST by MEGoody (Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.)
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