Skip to comments.Military Looking at replacing 5.56 NATO -- Freeper HELP NEEDED
Posted on 11/16/2005 11:36:11 AM PST by tightwadbob
Within the last week, there was a link here that discussed the military wanting to replace the 5.56 Nato with 7.62 NATO or some other round. I have used every search word I can think of but still can't locate that thread. Can anybody give me the link, PLEASE?
Thanks, FR is an amazing resource.
7.62...is a good round.
forget 7.62 they need to use .338 Lapua :)
It's the 6.8 SPC :
forget 7.62 they need to use .338 Lapua :)
Yeah, right. The 7.62 has always been a favorite round. It is short enough for autoloaders that can be made small enough (unless you want to carry a BAR all day long :-) ) --- much longer range with energy, than the 5.56 MM.
I remembered seeing it yesterday and just typed 5.56 in the find. (Title by score)
yea but if we want firepower... come on! :D hehe
50 caliber patched roundball behind 90 grains of 3fg powder in a kentucky flintlock will do the trick, as many deer and bear I shot will attest to
We switched from 7.62 to 5.56 back in the early 60's( I think it was under Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara) . The thought behind that is of course cost and the psychological effect on the enemy. Since 5.56 tends to wound more than it kills all the wounded would cause a negative psychological effect on the enemy. Therefore lowering their moral. Basically it was Bean Counter BS.
Seems to me that the Grendel round is a LOT better, much more inherently accurate.
or 300win mag. :D that would smoke some terrorists. :D
ehhh.. use 50cal maxiball... :D I have a Thompson
That was fine when we fought cultures that cared about their own wounded.
oh great...here we go!
The thread that would not die.
I wonder if it would be practical to have the soldiers all armed with a pistol, maybe the new FN high velocity for use in close quarters as a primary weapon instead of the M4. For that matter a high capacity .45 would be good.
For those times when they really needed more power they could use an FN FAL or something similar. In other words, every combat soldier has a pistol and a rifle. The pistol for close quarters and the rifle for everything else.
I agree, but the thought was when you wound it takes two more persons ( soldiers ) minimum to care for and transport the wounded to a safe position effectively taking manpower away from the battle.
The old tommy gun was awesome.
.40 or .357 Sig would be better. More expensive but better. MP5 comes in 40 cal and works very well. Adapt the M4 for .40.
I don't know, being dead sure does put a damper on one's moral.
I will probably be flamed for this, but...
Our military has over a million AK's stockpiled from Iraq and Afghanistan and elsewhere. They probably need refurbishing, but they're still cheaper than buying new, and it could probably be done within the military's own refurbish and repair system.
And we have way too much first hand info to let us know the 7.62 Russian is an effective round. Our guys wouldn't have the ability to tell friend from foe by sound, but they will have a rock solid weapons platform proven worldwide.
Well I've had combat experience with both the 5.56 & the 7.62 and I'll take the 7.62 any day.
My fellow Marines in Iraq agree with me too.
that would be "pyrodex" :D and make that about 80gr-90gr. :)
Nothing like the boom, smoke and smell of real blackpowder.
It would be useful to see a direct comparison between the Grendel and 6.8 SPC, but alas, we are not the ones making the decision. Either way, it's still leagues better than the wounding but not stopping .223, especially out of a shorter carbine barrel.
I always thought that the 10mm would be the very best round for a Thompson.
Pistols are somewhat more difficult to accurately hit with, and when it does hit, one certainly wants more than a sub-.38, the 9mm. At least 147gr. OSM increases penetration and effectiveness, but the 115gr. pointed FMJ is a cruel joke. Fine for training and parades in Europe, but for fighting a real war..??? We need a close range STOPPER. Hey, why doesn't somebody invent, say, a cartridge derived from the Old West .45 Colt, say, a .45 ACP, and test it in 2 World Wars, and everywhere else on the planet, to date. Now that would be an effective sidearm for our troops. Personally, I think the 10mm is the finest choice though, especially in this day of automatic rifles, and bullet-resistant vests, and shoulder-fired rockets. It somewhat bridges the gap from handgun to rifle, somewhat longer effective range. A handgun is a soldier's last ditch defensive weapon, before his bayonet, shovel, and helmet. How about giving our heroes something better than a .38 to defend their lives with? I have a dream.
6.8 Remington SPC or maybe even 6.5 Grendel might be an adjunct round as you can use the same lower receiver and most of the upper parts minus bolt and barrel and small parts.
Now that we have a "hot' situation abroad, and have a lot of troops with real combat experience under their belts, not only training, they appreciate what a cartridge DOES, not just that it sounds impressive when it go boom. There's the world of difference, as it is in civilian personal protection choices. That .380 sure sounds loud and powerful at the indoor range, but once you try to shoot it into something close and nasty, with meat on its mind, your opinion suddenly shrinks to insignificance, and you realize you should also be carrying a good knife...a SHEATH knife, and a big one.
So, we may actually have a chance of supplying our troops with something that actually works, perhaps even the first time. There have been many occasions when the .223 needed multiple applications to dissuade the wounded, enemy liability from continuing to shoot back. I only wish such horrendous (and sobering) learning experiences upon the bean-counting theoreticians in our government. This may be our chance. May it be.
help is always needed with the search function here. I swear there are times I cant find nothing here. probably all those hundreds of threads on natalie holloway or whatever big thing on fox(morlock)news.
I agree... Nothing can corrode a perfectly good gun like real blackpowder :D
I once got ahold of some Egyptian made 8mm Mauser ammo and it was virulently corrosive. It shot just fine but you had better clean that rifle and quick or it would resemble a Mexican stovepipe pretty soon.
I hadn't thought about it but you are right, a 10mm makes a lot of sense for a combat arm. Better penetration, power, and greater capacity. Probably just as good a stopper too as the .45
10 mm are more powerful than a .45.
I hate nasty corrosive powder! :\
The 10 mm would be interesting in a relatively small, assault rifle format, perhaps like the Thompson. It seems that the 10 mm is doomed to obscurity in the near future for a number of reasons, like the lackof a decnt pistol to shoot it from. The Colt Delta Elite is still avaliable on a sporadic basis and so is the Glock Model 20. Other than those two, I don't think anyone is making a factory 10 mm gun. The round has been replaced (at least in law enforcement) by the .40 for better or worse.
I like the 5.56 ...........in my Contender(note screen name)
LOL! That's true if you do not clean it. After shooting it I use good ole soap and water, dry it, and put a small amount of a water displacing gun oil. Same gun for a number of years with no rust. No need for fancy solvents :D
I know, I clean and take care of all my firearms. I just think "real" Blackpowder is messy and more corrosive than the other stuff. :D... With my Hawkin i do the same as you i use really, really hot water and soap, after that i get out the hops, I set the water so hot that it evaporates really fast."ouch my fingers hot" :) my hawkin has a "browned" finish so it's already rusted. :D hehe
Nice saddle carbine.
Do you think Stag grips would be gauche?
It's got the desirable features of a semi-auto, but with hair.
So, if it were up to me, I would adopt the 10mm Glock, by fiat, stamp 'em out like hotcakes and pump 'em to our troops right now.
Issue 10mm Grease-guns (O.K., MP-5s and nickel plated Uzis) just for esprit du corps (the "Thompsons just feel good...handy" factor, like swagger sticks, only louder), and make fluted, heavy barrel contour 6.8 uppers, with functional bayonet mounts.....but then again, I'd authorize the wearing of Mohican haircuts, war-paint, black leather motorcycle jackets, or Captain America costumes for elite units, with 10mm Scandium Thompsons, M14s, and BARs, and of course, mounted gets Rocket Belts, and laser weapons. Of course.
Hey, I gotta be me.
My Glock 20 left for magnaport yesterday........waiting for it !
My beloved 1911A1 is still numbah one !
But if I had the money, that guncrafters 50GI would be a nice little rig to check out.
Time and testing ....fun'n gun if the weather holds out....otherwise it's off to the naked indoor range !