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Ex-Gay Ministry Leader Refutes Protesters' Anti-Reparative Therapy Claims
Agape Press ^ | 11/18/05 | Jim Brown and Jenni Parker

Posted on 11/19/2005 6:57:53 PM PST by wagglebee

Ex-homosexuals and "reparative therapy" advocates recently gathered in Marina del Rey, California, for the 13th annual conference of the National Association for Research & Therapy of Homosexuality, or NARTH. Reparative or reorientation therapy is designed to help men and women in conflict with their homosexuality attain the goal of reaching their heterosexual potential.

NARTH comprises more than 1,000 therapists, sociologists, and psychoanalysts who believe homosexuality is not inborn and can be changed. However, the organization's November 11-13 gathering in Marina del Rey (Los Angeles County) attracted an angry group of protesters, many of whom argued that reparative therapy is dangerous and encourages self-hatred in homosexuals.

However, one of the conference speakers, Exodus International president Alan Chambers, disagrees. "I myself was a homosexual man 15 years ago," he says, "and for over a decade now, I have been leading a heterosexual life. And it wasn't about me hating myself; it was about me wanting something different than what I found myself struggling with."

According to Chambers, the fact that ex-homosexuals exist invalidates the notion that homosexuality is biologically determined. And at the same time, he contends, those homosexual activists and other individuals who deny that hundreds of thousands of men and women have found freedom from homosexuality are, in effect, invalidating their own messages calling for tolerance and respect.

Among the protesters denouncing the NARTH event was homosexual L.A. City Councilman Bill Rosendahl, a practicing Catholic. According to an ExGayWatch.com blog, Rosendahl called the group's research and methods "unproven, unsafe and abusive," and described its persistence in viewing homosexuality as a condition to be corrected as "another form of rationalization for the continued persecution and prejudice against gay people."

But Chambers feels it is the councilman and the other protesters who are promoting persecution and prejudice. "It's the ultimate of hypocrisy among the small minority of the gay community and this local politician who is denying people the right to their self-determination -- denying the right for someone to choose their path in life," the Exodus International spokesman says, "and I think that's not only un-American, it's inhumane."

Chambers believes more people than ever are finding out that homosexuality is detrimental to an individual's physical, emotional, and spiritual health. And, he asserts that, as countless people -- himself included -- have demonstrated, same-sex desires can be overcome with the help of Jesus Christ.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: alanchambers; exhomosexuals; homosexualagenda; homosexuality; homosexualreform; narth; reparativetherapy
According to Chambers, the fact that ex-homosexuals exist invalidates the notion that homosexuality is biologically determined. And at the same time, he contends, those homosexual activists and other individuals who deny that hundreds of thousands of men and women have found freedom from homosexuality are, in effect, invalidating their own messages calling for tolerance and respect.

The left would actually prefer that seminars be held to persuade heterosexuals to become sodomites.

1 posted on 11/19/2005 6:57:55 PM PST by wagglebee
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To: little jeremiah; DirtyHarryY2K

Homosexual agenda ping.


2 posted on 11/19/2005 6:58:20 PM PST by wagglebee ("We are ready for the greatest achievements in the history of freedom." -- President Bush, 1/20/05)
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To: wagglebee

No one is born that way. No one.

It's the LEFT and in this situation, "practicing" homos who wish to remain in denial - they HATE the truth.


3 posted on 11/19/2005 7:06:59 PM PST by nmh (Intelligent people believe in Intelligent Design (God).)
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To: wagglebee

BUMP!


4 posted on 11/19/2005 7:07:20 PM PST by nmh (Intelligent people believe in Intelligent Design (God).)
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To: wagglebee

Tolerance and respect in general is never what the homosexual groups wanted. The only tolerance they wanted was to their sexual acts, and the only respect they wanted was to homosexuals over heterosexuals.


5 posted on 11/19/2005 7:26:28 PM PST by dan1123
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To: wagglebee
angry group of protesters, many of whom argued that reparative therapy is dangerous

Yes it is -- to their twisted, selfish agenda.

6 posted on 11/19/2005 7:29:43 PM PST by Salvey (ancest)
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To: nmh

The "born that way" provides them with two uses. First, it pushes the public to accept homosexuality as "natural". Second it sticks it to the religious who believe that homosexual acts are sinful, because "how can God condemn someone when He made them that way"? Therefore discounting Christianity entirely.


7 posted on 11/19/2005 7:32:27 PM PST by dan1123
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To: wagglebee

Thank you for posting this article.
Is it any surprise that a "catholic" would have trouble grasping reality?
I was once a lesbian but am no longer. I decided I wanted to obey the Lord more than satisfy my sinful thoughts. It was really that simple. I still find women attractive, but I don't lust over them. I am happy and at peace with God over this issue.


8 posted on 11/19/2005 7:36:29 PM PST by MeekMom (Praise Jesus! We have so much to be thankful for!)
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To: MeekMom
Is it any surprise that a "catholic" would have trouble grasping reality?

What exactly do you mean by this?

9 posted on 11/19/2005 7:44:23 PM PST by wagglebee ("We are ready for the greatest achievements in the history of freedom." -- President Bush, 1/20/05)
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To: wagglebee

The catholic had a problem with understanding that one is not born gay. That's my point. No one is born gay. Period.


10 posted on 11/19/2005 7:51:19 PM PST by MeekMom (Praise Jesus! We have so much to be thankful for!)
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To: wagglebee
Having had a lot more contact with gays than I suspect the average person here has, I've come around to the idea that homosexuality is a genetic propensity rather than an environmental one. I suspect that the "success stories" of Reparative Therapy were either not all that gay, or decided that they'd rather climb back into the closet than deal with the stress of family/social ostracism.

Flame away.

11 posted on 11/19/2005 7:58:02 PM PST by Zeroisanumber
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To: MeekMom

So why make the remark about his being Catholic?


12 posted on 11/19/2005 8:01:14 PM PST by wagglebee ("We are ready for the greatest achievements in the history of freedom." -- President Bush, 1/20/05)
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To: wagglebee

Ask your evolutionist how a "gay" gene can survive even a dozen generations. If you prefer inquire of your intelligent designer what he had in mind if he made homosexuality a built in.


13 posted on 11/19/2005 8:07:45 PM PST by dr huer
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To: dr huer

I agree, and it really doesn't have much to do with the theory of evolution. If homosexuality were actually genetic, homosexuality would have ceased to exist thousands of years ago due to the fact that the gene would have disappeared through the elimination of reproduction.


14 posted on 11/19/2005 8:13:06 PM PST by wagglebee ("We are ready for the greatest achievements in the history of freedom." -- President Bush, 1/20/05)
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To: MeekMom

God bless you! You made the right decision for your life and your child(ren).


15 posted on 11/19/2005 8:25:19 PM PST by Albion Wilde (America will not run, and we will not forget our responsibilities. George W. Bush)
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To: Zeroisanumber

Why do you agree with the reports of one group (gays) over the reports of another group (ex-gays)? There is no objective proof one way or another, just personal bias in choosing one over another.


16 posted on 11/19/2005 8:26:18 PM PST by Raycpa
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To: Zeroisanumber

This isn't a flame. Just pointing out that many therapists and counselors, over many years, have helped thousands of homosexuals leave the "gay" life. A lot more experience, time, sheer numbers and knowledge than your opinion based on anecdotal homosexuals you have personally known.


17 posted on 11/19/2005 8:28:17 PM PST by little jeremiah
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To: Zeroisanumber

Recent research into brain recovery from trauma like stroke points to the brain's ability to grow larger in areas that receive a lot of cognitive attention; therefore, the brain of a violinist at death will be structured differently from the brain of an administrator, etc. Much of what may appear to you to be the result of genetics may actually be the result of repeated thoughts and behaviors.


18 posted on 11/19/2005 8:28:41 PM PST by Albion Wilde (America will not run, and we will not forget our responsibilities. George W. Bush)
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To: dr huer
A number of homosexuals do not discover their orientation until after they start families.

( How they do that is beyond me. The thought of having homosexual sex is so off putting, that I cannot imagine how they could have opposite sex if they are wired for same sex)

19 posted on 11/19/2005 8:29:31 PM PST by Raycpa
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To: wagglebee
If homosexuality were actually genetic, homosexuality would have ceased to exist thousands of years ago due to the fact that the gene would have disappeared through the elimination of reproduction.

Well, no, because in past generations there was no discrete social category for homosexuality. Everyone was expected to marry and reproduce, and most gave it a whack, although there were certainly many complaints about some of the effeminate husbands of the upper classes who sired heirs but fooled around with other men and neglected their wives.

20 posted on 11/19/2005 8:32:37 PM PST by Albion Wilde (America will not run, and we will not forget our responsibilities. George W. Bush)
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To: Albion Wilde

That said, I don't believe homosexuality is inborn.


21 posted on 11/19/2005 8:34:50 PM PST by Albion Wilde (America will not run, and we will not forget our responsibilities. George W. Bush)
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To: wagglebee

>>If homosexuality were actually genetic, homosexuality would have ceased to exist thousands of years ago due to the fact that the gene would have disappeared through the elimination of reproduction.<<

This isn't necessarily true. What if the carriers of the gene still engaged in heterosexual, pro-creation behavior either in addition to homosexual behavior or in spite of their homosexual pre-disposition, if applicable.

I don't think it is beyond the realm of possibility to have an ingrained (or is that spelled with an "e"?) predisposition to certain forms of behavior, including homosexual behavior. But the key is to think of homosexuality in behavioral terms, because that is what it is: behavior.


22 posted on 11/19/2005 8:37:56 PM PST by 1L
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To: EdReform; backhoe; Yehuda; Clint N. Suhks; saradippity; stage left; Yakboy; I_Love_My_Husband; ...
Homosexual Agenda Ping.

If you want on/off the ping list let me and little jeremiah know.

Free Republic homosexual agenda keyword search

23 posted on 11/19/2005 8:38:53 PM PST by DirtyHarryY2K (http://soapboxharry.blogspot.com/)
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To: 1L

So, in that case, even if it is genetic, one still has to consciously decide to engage in the behavior. Which means that a person has the ability, through free will, to not behave in this way, or even to ask God to remove the desire to commit this sinful behavior. And all of this means that there is no reason for a person to remain a homosexual if they don't desire to.


24 posted on 11/19/2005 8:42:11 PM PST by wagglebee ("We are ready for the greatest achievements in the history of freedom." -- President Bush, 1/20/05)
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To: Raycpa

actually the science fails to back up any claim of the homosexuals. There is no homosexual gene. period. That is not bias, that is just science.

They have mapped the human genome. Found the the six or so variants of the breast cancer gene, have found the location of any other number of inherited birth defects. HOWEVER this one sexual behavior has failed to appear in a gene.

Why have the homoadvocates not explained away the prison populations with their "gay gene" mythology? The reason is that the homosexual argument of "born that way" is a political statement in order to drive a political agenda. It has never had ANYTHING to do with science. Homosexuality is just another abnormal fetish.


25 posted on 11/19/2005 8:48:55 PM PST by longtermmemmory (VOTE!)
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To: longtermmemmory

That is my point, there is no objective proof for either group. Therefore deciding that one group is inborn and another is not is based on self reports by the members of the groups. The choice for believeing either group is based on personal bias.

I happen to think its not nature, but nurture and my view is not objective.


26 posted on 11/19/2005 8:53:03 PM PST by Raycpa
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To: MeekMom
Is it any surprise that a "catholic" would have trouble grasping reality?

He doesn't speak for myself nor any other Catholics.

Does LA not have a Bishop?

27 posted on 11/19/2005 9:02:45 PM PST by Last Dakotan
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To: wagglebee
Among the protesters denouncing the NARTH event was homosexual L.A. City Councilman Bill Rosendahl, a practicing Catholic.

He may be a practicing Catholic. But only because his priest and bishop are not. Our bishop here has told abortion and sodomy advocates to consider themselves excommunicated. And they got the message.

According to an ExGayWatch.com blog, Rosendahl called the group's research and methods "unproven, unsafe and abusive," and described its persistence in viewing homosexuality as a condition to be corrected as "another form of rationalization for the continued persecution and prejudice against gay people."

Let's see how this sounds compared to other sexual deviance: '...viewing necrophilia as "another form of rationalization for the continued persecution and prejudice against necrophiliacs."'

Are we expected to take such nonsense seriously?

These liberals are all about choice. But not when it comes to sexuality. And yet, they hug up to bisexuals too. And each time the bisexual selects a sex partner, they 'choose' all over again whether to be hetero or homo. And that's fine with the libs and sodomites who love to celebrate such 'diversity'. But let a sodomite or a therapist offer hope for normal family life to other sodomites who want it for themselves and just watch them come out of the closets screaming at the top of their lungs over how evil it all is.
28 posted on 11/19/2005 9:09:12 PM PST by George W. Bush
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To: wagglebee
Those angry activists did the same thing, twice, at two different churches in MA. Joined by none other than Sheehan and her band of merry men! Read about it, at www.article8.org. Pictures posted there as well.

ABC (local affiliate)covered the event on the evening news. The bias was so blatantly obvious, it was disgraceful. I emailed them, and told them they had alienated thousands more viewers, and I hope they were pleased with that outcome.
29 posted on 11/19/2005 9:09:47 PM PST by gidget7 (Get GLSEN out of our schools!!!!!!)
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To: MeekMom
Well welcome back to reality! I hope you continue to find fulfillment, and blessings with the Lord!
30 posted on 11/19/2005 9:12:14 PM PST by gidget7 (Get GLSEN out of our schools!!!!!!)
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To: 1L
Yes it is a behavior. To accept one is born with a propensity for same sex attraction, one would have to accept that one can be born with a propensity for attraction to animals, or for someone who is bi sexual. Any other behavior you can possibly think of would have to qualify, and it really is quite ridiculous. As much as we are told it is natural, there is no basis for that notion.
31 posted on 11/19/2005 9:19:45 PM PST by gidget7 (Get GLSEN out of our schools!!!!!!)
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To: Albion Wilde

I would agree with your post #20...I worked with a man, who was in his 30s, and was married and had a little 2 yr old boy....then there seemed trouble in his marriage, and he and his wife divorced...after a long time, he began dating...but dating men...he said he was a homosexual, even when married to a woman...I dont know if he thought getting married would have 'cured' him of his urges to be with men...

In any case, it did not appear to work out the way he thought it might, and he to this day, many years later, is still a practicing homosexual...

So you are right, many men, even today, ,do get married and produce children, just to conform to societys or their family wishes...but often have their men on the side...


32 posted on 11/19/2005 9:21:28 PM PST by andysandmikesmom
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To: Zeroisanumber


The mind is like your hard drive.

If a program is faulty and a few dll`s are corrupt,

they can be repaired.


33 posted on 11/19/2005 9:31:08 PM PST by Para-Ord.45
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To: wagglebee

Physically homosexuality does not make sense. Why give men genitals designed to be used on woman genitals which the walls are designed to receive and handle the male organ? Yet the walls of the rectum is easilly torn if it receives the male organ, increasing the risk of blood borne diseases and infections. Liberals believe in evolution and yet they ignore this evolutionary design of the male and female sex organs, and advocate the misuse of it and do not see it as abnormal. Maybe liberal thought process is abnormal.


34 posted on 11/19/2005 9:33:17 PM PST by Fee (`+Great powers never let minor allies dictate who, where and when they must fight.)
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To: MeekMom
I am happy and at peace with God over this issue.

You're not alone. FR is home to others who have chosen victory in Christ over the urges of the flesh.

Lust is something we all have to deal with. So, in a way your situation is special. And, also, it's not. With Christ, there is no condemnation, no special sins, only the call to new life in Him. This is something the world does not and cannot grasp. To be a new creature in Christ is a wonderful gift. Those who protested NARTH simply have no clue what NARTH is about.

Well, I hope I am not being too intrusive with my remarks. Thanks for sharing your story here.
35 posted on 11/19/2005 9:36:17 PM PST by George W. Bush
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To: All


If homosexuality can be removed from the DSM thru

nothing more than moral relativism,

then how can anyone discriminate against,

polygamy,polyamourous,bestiality and even relations

with minors .


36 posted on 11/19/2005 9:37:19 PM PST by Para-Ord.45
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To: Zeroisanumber
Yes, zero is a number. It reflects the existing evidence for a gay gene. And no, this is not a flame.

If somebody isn't sure where they stand on this issue, they may find this of interest: Dr. Robert Spitzer Interviewed In 'Christianity Today' Magazine. Read that very carefully. Take special note of who Dr. Spitzer is, what he used to think and what he thinks and says now.

Now couple the above with the very important results of the Twins Studies, a summary of what science has stated and the extremely important growing number of ex-gays. After reading the above links you should have a better understanding of the issues.

As you can see below, there are many more articles on the subject.


37 posted on 11/19/2005 9:48:00 PM PST by scripter ("You don't have a soul. You are a soul. You have a body." - C.S. Lewis)
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To: Zeroisanumber
Here is something else you can checkout:

I Do Exist
People Can Change

A list of 42 testimonials of ex-gays.

38 posted on 11/19/2005 9:51:26 PM PST by scripter ("You don't have a soul. You are a soul. You have a body." - C.S. Lewis)
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To: wagglebee
The following is an alphabetical listing of sites that offer help to homosexuals.
39 posted on 11/19/2005 9:52:33 PM PST by scripter ("You don't have a soul. You are a soul. You have a body." - C.S. Lewis)
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To: wagglebee

Just walked in the door a while ago - will be a-pinging what I can tomorrow. Thanks!


40 posted on 11/19/2005 10:00:23 PM PST by little jeremiah
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To: little jeremiah
Just walked in the door a while ago - will be a-pinging what I can tomorrow.

DirtyHarryY2K beat you to it.

41 posted on 11/19/2005 10:03:00 PM PST by scripter ("You don't have a soul. You are a soul. You have a body." - C.S. Lewis)
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To: scripter

Thank you, scripter, for doing what you do so well. Spreading the truth for all to see, with a good will.


42 posted on 11/19/2005 10:12:11 PM PST by little jeremiah
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To: Last Dakotan
Does LA not have a Bishop?

You did ask that tongue in cheek, didn't you?

If it was a real question, the answer is: in name only.

43 posted on 11/19/2005 11:27:25 PM PST by MSSC6644
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To: scripter
Yes, zero is a number. It reflects the existing evidence for a gay gene. And no, this is not a flame.

Just to be fair though...have they found a heterosexual gene?

In my opinion based on anecdotal evidence I can count without taking my shoes off, homosexuality seems to crops up from childhood trauma/deficiencies.

It is funny to hear homosexual advocators condeming an unhappy gay man using counceling to become a happy straight man....but whole-heartedly take to the idea of an unhappy man getting his penis chopped off to become a happy sort-of-woman.

44 posted on 11/20/2005 5:41:07 AM PST by PropheticZero
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To: PropheticZero
Just to be fair though...have they found a heterosexual gene?

That's a great question. From what I've read on the subject, nobody is looking for a heterosexual gene. I don't believe there's a lot of research behind the root causes of pedophilia, but they haven't found a pedophilia gene either. As I see it, sexuality can be fluid in those confused about their sexual identity. It's quite a complex issue. As I see it, biology and ex-gays speak volumes.

In my opinion based on anecdotal evidence I can count without taking my shoes off, homosexuality seems to crops up from childhood trauma/deficiencies.

The first article from the list of articles in post 37 is an excellent summary of the issue: How Might Homosexuality Develop? Putting the Pieces Together. We (there's a team of us here) have collected a lot of information on the subject. What has been posted in this thread is what I believe to be an excellent summary of the information. See my profile for more information.

It is funny to hear homosexual advocators condeming an unhappy gay man using counceling to become a happy straight man....but whole-heartedly take to the idea of an unhappy man getting his penis chopped off to become a happy sort-of-woman.

It sounds like you're saying there is some inconsistencies from some homosexual advocates, and if so, I would agree.

Because homosexuals are often shunned by those who seem to forget homosexuals are human, I try to consider how my writing comes across to those struggling with same-sex desires. But not just my writing - my actions as well.

What I mean is:

We see inconsistencies coming from some homosexual advocates and I have to wonder if my writing here exacerbates the problem. While I completely disagree with the homosexual lifestyle, I want to make it clear that I'm condemning the behavior and not the person. For heaping the wrong attitude towards some folks, we may be alienating them even further and in doing so, acting as a factor in their inconsistencies.

Of course, no matter what we say to some folks, they're so jaded they don't really hear what we're saying.

45 posted on 11/20/2005 9:06:43 AM PST by scripter ("You don't have a soul. You are a soul. You have a body." - C.S. Lewis)
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To: gidget7

Its not natural under ANY definition of the word. Just because one likes it or feels predisposed to engage in it doesn't make it natural.


46 posted on 11/20/2005 10:37:44 AM PST by 1L
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To: MSSC6644
If it was a real question, the answer is: in name only.

He has a city councilman, living the gay lifestyle and speaking as a catholic.

He has got a problem.

47 posted on 11/20/2005 10:51:47 AM PST by Last Dakotan
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To: Last Dakotan
He has got a problem.

I seriously doubt that he would think he has a problem. I seriously doubt that Cardinal Mahoney believes there is anything wrong with living the homosexual lifestyle.

48 posted on 11/20/2005 1:20:08 PM PST by MSSC6644
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To: MSSC6644

Well, then we all have the problem. I don't know if the Vatican really understands the depth of the problem within certain dioceses in the US.


49 posted on 11/20/2005 4:18:54 PM PST by Last Dakotan
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To: MeekMom

Bless you and thanks for sharing your experience.


50 posted on 11/21/2005 4:07:44 PM PST by TenaciousZ
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