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Chávez builds base with grass-roots circles in U.S.
Miami Herald ^ | November 21, 2005 | PABLO BACHELET pbachelet@herald.com

Posted on 11/21/2005 2:06:58 AM PST by Cincinatus' Wife

WASHINGTON - Miami's Jesús Soto supports Venezuelan President Hugo Chávez's vision of ''participatory democracy.'' Valerie Pusch of Chicago backs Chávez because of his policies on behalf of the poor.

And they say so loudly, as heads of their local Bolivarian Circles -- among the dozen or so U.S. copies of the groups Chávez has set up throughout his country to mobilize Venezuelans on behalf of his socialist ``revolution.''

Even as Chávez attacks President Bush as his sworn nemesis, his government is running a strong campaign to curry favor with U.S. citizens through leftist grass-roots groups, paid lobbyists and public relations operatives and offers of cheap fuel for America's poor.

The Venezuelan leader is running a ''grass-roots foreign policy,'' said Mark Weisbrot, co-director of the Washington based Center for Economic and Policy Research, a group that supports Chávez.

''Obviously the government of the United States has not been very friendly and [the Venezuelans] figure they have a better chance at dealing directly with the people who don't have any particular reason not to like Venezuela,'' he added.

Chávez steadily accuses the Bush administration of planning to topple him, and his prosecutors have even filed charges of ''conspiracy to destroy the nation's republican form of government'' against four leaders of a Venezuelan activist group that got U.S. funds and helped organize a failed recall vote on the president last year.

Bush administration policy on both Venezuela and Cuba is to support pro-democracy groups -- and Chávez seems to be taking a page from the same book.

Earlier this month, about 1,300 persons paid $20 each to attend ''an evening of solidarity with Bolivarian Venezuela'' in New York. Partly organized by the local Bolivarian Circle, it also was endorsed by more than 80 left-wing organizations ranging from the U.S. antiwar group ANSWER to the Cuban legislature in Havana.

Organizers said it was the largest U.S. public demonstration to date in favor of Chávez, and was followed a few days later by a similar affair in Los Angeles.

Some 15 Bolivarian Circles -- named after Venezuelan independence hero and Chávez icon Simón Bolivar -- now operate in the United States, in cities with populations of Venezuelan expatriates like Cincinnati, Boston and Miami, but also in places like Salt Lake City, Knoxville and Milwaukee.

SPONTANEOUS GROUPS?

Although interviews with several members suggest the U.S. groups sprang up spontaneously and are not directed from Caracas, they seem to share strong left-of-center views.

One member of the Detroit circle, Martin Schreader, is also an activist in the Detroit Working People's Association, whose website defines it as ``working for the liberation of working people and the abolition of modern slavery -- wage-slavery.''

''Our purpose is to tell the world that there's no dictatorship in Venezuela,'' said Soto, a former police chief in Venezuela who founded the Miami circle in 2001. With 185 members of several nationalities, he says his group is the biggest of the U.S. circles.

Pusch, an adult education teacher married to a Venezuelan, said that if the United States is supposed to be supporting democratic processeses, ``why is there is so much trouble accepting this democratically elected president?''

The Venezuelan government appears to have started reaching out to U.S. organizations two years ago, when its embassy in Washington created the Venezuela Information Office -- fully-funded by Caracas with nearly $800,000 in the year ending Aug. 31, according to Foreign Agents Registration Act filings at the U.S. Department of Justice.

Its first head was Deborah James, who went there from Global Exchange, a group that shares Chávez's strongly anti-free trade views. The office's Justice Department filings say it contacts journalists, to seek ''balance'' in the reporting on Venezuela, and key congressional staffers.

''The Venezuelan government feels frustration that their side of the story is not getting out,'' said Eric Wingerter, a spokesman who used to work for Defenders of Wildlife and Public Employees for Environmental Responsibility.

The filings also show the Venezuelan embassy hired a marquee Washington lobby firm, Patton Boggs LLP, in September 2003 and paid it about $1.6 million. But the contract was not renewed when it expired late last year because the embassy ran out of money, said Venezuela's ambassador in Washington, Bernardo Alvarez.

MONEY FOR LOBBYISTS

According to the Center for Public Integrity, a Washington-based group that tracks lobbying payments, Venezuela paid out $500,000 for lobbying in 2004, mostly through its state oil company PDVSA and its U.S. branch, Citgo.

In another effort by Chávez to curry favor with Americans, Venezuela, which already supplies 12-15 percent of U.S. oil imports per year, offered to send more fuel after Hurricane Katrina and to sell cheap heating oil for America's poor, working through members of Congress who are friendly to Chávez.

Just last week, Citgo clinched a deal to sell 12 million gallons of discounted heating oil to 45,000 families in Massachusetts, in a deal brokered with Rep. William Delahunt, D-Mass., and the nonprofit Citizen's Energy Corp.

Fadi Kabboul, a Venezuelan embassy advisor on energy issues, said Citgo hoped to reach a similar deal with the office of Rep. José Serrano, D-N.Y., who represents the Bronx.

Venezuelan officials say the savings for end users on both deals would be about $10 million.

Last month, Ambassador Alvarez sent Sen. Pete Domenici, R-N.M., chairman of the Energy and Natural Resources Committee, a letter highlighting Venezuela's decision to send an additional 2.5 million barrels of gasoline, jet fuel and diesel to help ease U.S. shortages caused by hurricanes.

To Bush administration officials the names of organizations that back the Venezuelan president have a familiar ring to them.

''The Venezuelans just got the Rolodex from Cuba,'' said one senior State Department official who asked to remain anonymous because of the sensitivity of the issue.

One of the scheduled speakers at the New York event was actor Danny Glover, a strong critic of U.S. sanctions on Cuba. He could not attend because he was filming.

Another speaker, Rev. Lucius Walker of the group Pastors for Peace, routinely challenges the trade embargo on Cuba by organizing aid shipments to the island and all but daring U.S. Customs officials to seize the goods.


TOPICS: Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 109th; answer; bolivariancircle; bolivariancircles; bolivarianvenezuela; chavez; communism; cuba; dgi; hispanics; hugochavez; nion; traitors; treason; ufpj; venezuela; westernhemisphere
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Hugo Chavez - Venezuela

Latin America’s Terrible Two - Fidel Castro and Hugo Chávez constitute an axis of evil ***…..What is happening in our neighborhood? Press reports indicate that a leftist-populist alliance is engulfing most of South America. Some Andean and Central American countries are sliding back from economic reforms and narcotics eradication, and the Caribbean remains irrationally hostile to the U.S. This is the reality U.S. policymakers must confront; and our most pressing specific challenge is neutralizing or defeating the Cuba-Venezuela axis. With the combination of Castro’s evil genius, experience in political warfare, and economic desperation, and Chávez’s unlimited money and recklessness, the peace of this region is in peril…………***

1 posted on 11/21/2005 2:07:01 AM PST by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
The yahoo I'm going to verabally pummel with your work from yesterday is one of those old hippies who loves Communism and refuses to believe the loss of millions to it's horrors is fine so long as they help the people.

I get more PO'd the more I think about it.

At any rate we got into a "discussion" about Chavez last week and despite my facts and references she ended her whine by saying "he does more for his people than the President does!"

I'm not going to go into more detail, but now I'm PO'd and wide awake. Oh well, she's never actually won an arguement yet, but still insists this is for "the good of us all".

My whole point is that these are the types of people that Chavez is targetting as a base in the US. The complete wakjob leftists.

I don't fear them, but it's going to be a hell of a mess to clean up once we are force to crush them.

2 posted on 11/21/2005 2:15:23 AM PST by Caipirabob (Democrats.. Socialists..Commies..Traitors...Who can tell the difference?)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

If they love hugo so much, why don't they depart our evil capitalist lands and go live in the idyllic paradise of Venezuela or haul their keisters back to Bolivia.... The land of tin and tin-pot dictators??????


3 posted on 11/21/2005 2:21:16 AM PST by LegendHasIt
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To: LegendHasIt

"If they love hugo so much, why don't they depart our evil capitalist lands and go live in the idyllic paradise of Venezuela or haul their keisters back to Bolivia.... The land of tin and tin-pot dictators??????"

If they love hugo so much, why don't we deport them?


4 posted on 11/21/2005 2:33:04 AM PST by dsc
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To: LegendHasIt; Caipirabob; dsc
It's not so much they love Castro/Chavez, but that they believe the U.S. is the cause of everyone's problems and once we're defeated, the world will be paradise - the people's paradise.

Castro's Medical Mercenaries ................By the mid-1990s Cuba's vaunted medical program was crumbling as well. Hospital patients asked relatives in Miami to send bedsheets, pillowcases and cotton balls because Cuba's hospitals had none. Hospital hallways were dark because staff stole the lightbulbs in order to resell them. Some doctors complained they couldn't write prescriptions: no paper or pens. Córdova's frustrations mounted. Some days, he turned patients away. "You can make a diagnosis, but there's no medication to treat it," he says. "No penicillin, no aspirin. It is like a bad joke."

Yet at certain hospitals, such as Cira García in Havana, the shelves were well stocked with drugs and top-of-the-line equipment. Cira García strictly treated foreigners with hard currency and Cuba's ruling elite--doctors' families not included. ............

........Newspapers have picked up on Florida Republican Representative Ileana Ros-Lehtinen's complaints that the bank hasn't satisfactorily explained the source of $3.9 billion processed for Cuba over a period of seven years.......***

5 posted on 11/21/2005 2:38:59 AM PST by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: LegendHasIt

That's easy. Because the Venezuelan paradise is being prevented from budding by oppression from the evil US... If only the US were gone Venezuela would become all socialism can be...

Deport them all.


6 posted on 11/21/2005 2:39:45 AM PST by DB (©)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
These groups mean nothing here other than a waste of Venezuela's cash. American communists don't like to work and glom onto any cause or faction that will send cash without the expectation of any return on the investment.

Our culture dissolves these myriad fringe groups one person at a time as they finally grow up and get jobs (and lives).

Look at what happened with the hippies and heads of the 60's and 70's. Granted some are still hanging out with the antiwar crowd, but a close examination of the lives of these 60 year old heads will reveal either a SSDI kiss in the mail or a connection with a viable drug distribution network.
7 posted on 11/21/2005 2:41:42 AM PST by mmercier (so it goes)
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To: mmercier
...Look at what happened with the hippies and heads of the 60's and 70's....

They're running schools of education and journalism.

I understand your point but they must be pointed out and ridiculed.

8 posted on 11/21/2005 2:44:08 AM PST by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

i wonder who's the head of the massachussets chapter, the cape cod orca or lurch? definetly charlie rangel has to be heading up my home state chapter.


9 posted on 11/21/2005 2:46:39 AM PST by JohnLongIsland
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

I would love to hear Bush declare in a speech concerning this development, "We are a Representative Republic whose economy is fueled by capitalism. I will enforce our Constitution to the fullest extent of the law." Or something to that effect.


10 posted on 11/21/2005 2:47:14 AM PST by rvoitier ("Hug your babies tight"--Luanne Platter)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

And people say communism is dead.


11 posted on 11/21/2005 2:49:59 AM PST by tet68 ( " We would not die in that man's company, that fears his fellowship to die with us...." Henry V.)
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To: JohnLongIsland

I hear you, loud and clear.


12 posted on 11/21/2005 2:51:21 AM PST by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: tet68
And people say communism is dead.

***......................Even though they are too prudent and self-protective to name this future anymore, the post-Communist left still passionately believes it possible. But it is a world that has never existed and never will. Moreover, as the gulags and graveyards of the last century attest, to attempt the impossible is to invite the catastrophic in the world we know.

But the fall of Communism taught the progressives who were its supporters very little. Above all, it failed to teach them the connection between their utopian ideals and the destructive consequences that flowed from them. The fall of Communism has had a cautionary impact only on the overt agendas of the political left. The arrogance that drives them has hardly diminished. The left is like a millenarian sect that erroneously predicted the end of the world, and now must regroup to revitalize its faith.

No matter how opportunistically the left's agendas have been modified, however, no matter how circumspectly its goals have been set, no matter how generous its concessions to political reality, the faithful have not given up their self-justifying belief that they can bring about a social redemption. In other words, a world in which human consciousness is changed, human relations refashioned, social institutions transformed, and in which "social justice" prevails.

Because the transformation progressives seek is ultimately total, the power they seek must be total as well. In the end, the redemption they envision cannot be achieved as a political compromise, even though compromises may be struck along the way. Their brave new world can ultimately be secured only by the complete surrender of the resisting force. In short, the transformation of the world requires the permanent entrenchment of the saints in power. Therefore, everything is justified that serves to achieve the continuance of Them.

In Peggy Noonan's psychological portrait of Hillary Clinton, one can trace the outlines of the progressive persona I have just described. She observes that the "liberalism" of the Clinton era is very different from the liberalism of the past. Clinton-era liberalism is manipulative and deceptive and not really interested in what real people think because "they might think the wrong thing."

That is why Hillary Clinton's famous plan to socialize American health care was the work of a progressive cabal that shrouded itself in secrecy to the point of illegality. Noonan labels Clinton-era politics "command and control liberalism," using a phrase with a familiar totalitarian ring. But, like so many conservatives I have come to know, Noonan is finally too decent and too generous to fully appreciate the pathology of the left. ....

......"The Third Way" is a familiar term from the lexicon of the left with a long and dishonorable pedigree in the catastrophes created by messianic socialists in the 20th Century. It is the most ornate panel in the tapestry of deception I described at the beginning of this essay.

In the 1930s, Nazis used "The Third Way" to characterize their own brand of national socialism as a equidistant between the "internationalist" socialism of the Soviet Union and the capitalism of the West. Trotskyists used "The Third Way" as a term to distinguish their own Marxism from Stalinism and capitalism. In the 1960s, New Leftists used "The Third Way" to define their politics as an independent socialism between the Soviet gulag and America's democracy.

But as the history of Nazism, Trotskyism and the New Left have shown, there is no "Third Way." There is the capitalist, democratic way based on private property and individual rights-a way that leads to liberty and universal opportunity. And there is the socialist way of group identities, group rights, a relentless expansion of the political state, restricted liberty and diminished opportunity. The Third Way is not a path to the future. It is just the suspension between these two destinations. It is a bad faith attempt on the part of people who are incapable of giving up their socialist schemes to escape the taint of their discredited past. ...........*** Source

13 posted on 11/21/2005 2:56:23 AM PST by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: rvoitier

Bump!


14 posted on 11/21/2005 2:56:50 AM PST by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
>> They're running schools of education and journalism.

And as fine job they are doing. Public education for the most part is in the hopper and the nation is watching hundred year old media institutions dissolve before our very eyes.

>> I understand your point but they must be pointed out and ridiculed.

Ridicule and criticism are what separate the good bad and ugly. I agree we must keep on these nutjobs and each other. Clarity of thought and integrity of ideas are what will keep America the leader of the free world.

We are all eventually held accountable for our actions and statement's here.
15 posted on 11/21/2005 2:57:41 AM PST by mmercier (A maid whom there were none to praise)
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To: mmercier

We educate, as well as learn, on FR.


16 posted on 11/21/2005 3:15:01 AM PST by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
>> We educate, as well as learn, on FR.

Indeed. The Free Republic is the best source of information I have found to date, and you get immediately slapped into place when you substitute your fondly held notions for fact.

In an insane world where I was ruler of all things the Free Republic would be mandatory for an hour a day from 6th grade through high school graduation in all schools.
17 posted on 11/21/2005 3:23:20 AM PST by mmercier (delivered from the noise of archers)
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To: dsc

If they love Hugo so much why don´t we deport them?




I think we ought to exile them to the country they say is much better than our own and let them live and try to survive in that society. Ought to open their eyes.

Never ceased to amaze nme the number of American haters and apologist I have met overseas who seemed ashamed to be American. Most of them have those famous liberal words tattooed on their forheads "They learned their coruption from the US or two wrongs don´t make a right,"


18 posted on 11/21/2005 3:29:19 AM PST by Americanexpat (A strong democracy through citizen oversight.)
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To: mmercier

Good points.

When you have to defend your position, you learn to think - something that's missing in today's education.


19 posted on 11/21/2005 3:30:52 AM PST by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Americanexpat; dsc
If they love Hugo so much why don´t we deport them?

That would pretty much clear out the Democrats in office.

20 posted on 11/21/2005 3:32:13 AM PST by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
...offered to send more fuel after Hurricane Katrina and to sell cheap heating oil for America's poor, working through members of Congress who are friendly to Chávez.

They gonna refine it, too?

21 posted on 11/21/2005 3:32:16 AM PST by mewzilla (Property must be secured or liberty cannot exist. John Adams)
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To: mewzilla
Thousands in Mass. to get cheaper oil - Delahunt, Chávez broker deal (it might as well be Castro)
22 posted on 11/21/2005 3:33:26 AM PST by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: mewzilla
The Venezuelan government appears to have started reaching out to U.S. organizations two years ago, when its embassy in Washington created the Venezuela Information Office -- fully-funded by Caracas with nearly $800,000 in the year ending Aug. 31, according to Foreign Agents Registration Act filings at the U.S. Department of Justice.

Follow the money. And not just the dough that's been reported.

23 posted on 11/21/2005 3:33:42 AM PST by mewzilla (Property must be secured or liberty cannot exist. John Adams)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

Kinda reminds me of Marie Antoinette's thinking. Let them burn oil.


24 posted on 11/21/2005 3:34:32 AM PST by mewzilla (Property must be secured or liberty cannot exist. John Adams)
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To: mewzilla
Click here for the DOJ's website on the Foreign Agents Registration Unit.

I see that the info doesn't appear to be available online.

Gee, wonder why?

25 posted on 11/21/2005 3:37:20 AM PST by mewzilla (Property must be secured or liberty cannot exist. John Adams)
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To: mewzilla

I wonder, any kickbacks?


26 posted on 11/21/2005 3:39:50 AM PST by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
I bet kickbacks, bribes, and a lot of money that isn't being reported.

I hope some journo does a little digging to see just where Chavez is sticking his tentacles.

And the DOJ should bloody well make that foreign agent info available online.

27 posted on 11/21/2005 3:43:27 AM PST by mewzilla (Property must be secured or liberty cannot exist. John Adams)
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To: mewzilla

Bump!


28 posted on 11/21/2005 3:44:16 AM PST by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

"That would pretty much clear out the Democrats in office."

Making it a two-fer, no?


29 posted on 11/21/2005 3:47:44 AM PST by dsc
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To: dsc

I don't see a down side.


30 posted on 11/21/2005 3:50:51 AM PST by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
Maybe if FNC's Oil For Food guys have some free time, they could look into what Chavez is doing...

hint, hint...

31 posted on 11/21/2005 3:52:22 AM PST by mewzilla (Property must be secured or liberty cannot exist. John Adams)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

I guess Fifth Columinsts will always be with us. With the price of oil going down, though, Hugo will have a little less cash to throw around. This punk has alienated so many of his own countrymen that I think he will end up being carried out of the Presidential office feet-first.


32 posted on 11/21/2005 3:53:20 AM PST by speedy
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To: mewzilla

I agree. Who is that British fellow (Fox reporter) that's been so hot on Kofi Annan's heels?


33 posted on 11/21/2005 3:55:37 AM PST by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: speedy

Chavez has the army, media, legislature and court in his pocket, so there is little the people of Venezuela can do as he continues to strangle the life out of that country. Chavez will spend the money where he pleases. Even Cuba has "elections."


34 posted on 11/21/2005 3:57:35 AM PST by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Americanexpat

"Most of them have those famous liberal words tattooed on their forheads "They learned their coruption from the US or two wrongs don´t make a right," "

Which, of course, is as wrong as it is wrongheaded. If you're talking about former Spanish colonies, they learned their corruption from the Spanish.


35 posted on 11/21/2005 4:01:36 AM PST by dsc
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

No Communism for OIL!

Jimmah - I hope your conscience catches up with you before you die. I hope the seeds that you have sewn come to fruit to see what you have done. If you see the horror you have created and fall to your knees ask for forgiveness, may it not be granted.

You are the lowest of the low for what you have done.


36 posted on 11/21/2005 4:01:52 AM PST by listenhillary ("Mainstream media" is creating it's own reality~everything sucks)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
prosecutors have even filed charges of ''conspiracy to destroy the nation's republican form of government'' against four leaders of a Venezuelan activist group that got U.S. funds and helped organize a failed recall vote on the president last year.

The 'Rats are friendly with him, just out of envy for his ability to criminalize normal political dissent.

Apparrently, the Venezualan lawyers went to the same law school that disgrace Ronnie Earle want to.

37 posted on 11/21/2005 4:02:10 AM PST by L,TOWM (Liberals, The Other White Meat)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

If Chavez blinks wrong we will crush him like a bug. Also, my neighbor is from Venezuela, and she hates Chavez's guts.


38 posted on 11/21/2005 4:05:16 AM PST by moose2004 (You Can Run But You Can't Hide!)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

"to attempt the impossible is to invite the catastrophic in the world we know."

Great post. Should be required reading.

"Noonan is finally too decent and too generous to fully appreciate the pathology of the left. ...."

So if I claim to fully appreciate the pathology of the left, I am admitting that I lack decency and generosity?

Ah, who am I trying to fool? Horowitz is right, and that's a problem.


39 posted on 11/21/2005 4:12:23 AM PST by dsc
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
So what's new, we all knew he'd find plenty of support in the US socialist sector?
40 posted on 11/21/2005 4:18:23 AM PST by wolfcreek
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To: listenhillary
No Communism for OIL!

Bump!

41 posted on 11/21/2005 4:31:21 AM PST by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: moose2004

All descent, hard working, freedom loving people hate Chavez - or, they soon will.


42 posted on 11/21/2005 4:33:25 AM PST by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: L,TOWM

Exactly.

Scum.


43 posted on 11/21/2005 4:33:58 AM PST by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

The Brit is Jonathan Hunt, IIRC. And David Asman did some excellent work as well. They'd do a good job with this :)


44 posted on 11/21/2005 4:35:04 AM PST by mewzilla (Property must be secured or liberty cannot exist. John Adams)
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To: dsc

You can't give these people the benefit of the doubt, or ascribe anything noble to them. They will see it as a weakness and stab you in the back.


45 posted on 11/21/2005 4:36:04 AM PST by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: wolfcreek

Since the Left loves and glorifies Castro, they will love and glorify Chavez.


46 posted on 11/21/2005 4:37:06 AM PST by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
...the faithful have not given up their self-justifying belief that they can bring about a social redemption. In other words, a world in which human consciousness is changed, human relations refashioned, social institutions transformed, and in which "social justice" prevails.

The 'faithful' don't consider several factors in their utopian dreams. Human consciousness includes basic desires for freedom and success, which must be quashed under the mantra of 'social justice'. Human relations, whether between man and woman, one civilization and another, will continue on basically the same confrontational paths they are on now, despite the best intentions of the refashioners. They will quickly return to the realization that the only way to achieve 'social justice' is to impose it by force; then the State (or the World State?) must grow exponentially to control every facet of workers' lives, leaving Party members in the suburban lap of luxury, while Workers eat a healthful organic hash of soybean curd and bran and dream of someday owning a car. Yeah baby, count me in for that utopia. I'll bring the bran, Comrade.

47 posted on 11/21/2005 4:59:20 AM PST by Sender (Team Infidel USA)
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To: Sender

They're LIARS and the masses lap it up.

The elite never "do" they only talk about it and demand the "rich" pay for it.

It's a about power paid for by the masses.


48 posted on 11/21/2005 5:05:00 AM PST by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: dsc
Which of course, is as wrong as it is wrongheaded, if your talking about former Spanish colonies, they learned their corruption from the Spanish.

-------

Which was my point exactly. I remember getting into a terrible argument with an Hispanic friend of mine once.

I was complaining to him about having to pay extra money to the government officials to move my paperwork along for everything from a visa to buying a home or about being pulled over by a Panamanian cop for running a red light when the light was clearly green. Or my favorite one crossing the double yellow line that only existed in his imagination.

He made the remark that we Americans taught the Panamanian officials how to be corrupt. I then pointed out that Panama was settled by criminals, adventurers and the dregs of old Spain and their systems had been corrupt since the 17th century and they needed no help from us about corruption. Our conversation went downhill from there with me being labeled a racist.

Now I know there will be others here who will want to flame me and point out that we have our own corruption in the US and they are right, My point is that Americans should stop apologizing for being American and feeling guilty about being a member of the greatest Nation on earth.

If we are so f=(ked up why is it that we have people not only waiting in line to come to this country but will walk across the deserts and hide in ship cargo containers to get here?
49 posted on 11/21/2005 5:16:17 AM PST by Americanexpat (A strong democracy through citizen oversight.)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

Stalin, Mao, Castro, Che ... all had supporters in the USA. You know the type. The ones who whine "Don't you dare question my patriotism" as they lick the boots of our totalitarian enemies.


50 posted on 11/21/2005 5:24:41 AM PST by aculeus
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