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Boeing Is Coming Up Sevens
Motley Fool ^ | November 21, 2005 | W.D. Crotty

Posted on 11/21/2005 2:30:56 PM PST by ConservativeStatement

Boeing (NYSE: BA) shareholders, rejoice! The company is rolling lucky sevens -- as in 777s, 787s, and 737s. The lifeblood of aircraft manufacturing is the order book, and Boeing has a fat one now. And for a company recently overwhelmed by questions regarding its corporate governance practices and ongoing competition due to forthcoming Airbus product releases, that has to be a nice thing to hear.

(Excerpt) Read more at fool.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Foreign Affairs
KEYWORDS: 737; 747; 777; 787; aircrafts; airlines; aviation; ba; boeing; business; dreamliner; economics; finance; stocks
Splendid news, Boeing.
1 posted on 11/21/2005 2:30:58 PM PST by ConservativeStatement
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To: MassRepublicanFlyersFan

In related news, Airbus CEO claims they'll shortly catch up... Well, it sure looks like Boeing's 787 high efficiency bird is far more attractive to the airlines than the Airbus A380 cattlewagon that requires runway extensions to accomodate it. Thank you for playing.


2 posted on 11/21/2005 2:36:39 PM PST by farlander
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To: MassRepublicanFlyersFan

airbus makes promises. boeing delivers.


3 posted on 11/21/2005 2:36:59 PM PST by flashbunny (LOCKBOX: Where most republicans keep their gonads after they arrive in Washington D.C.)
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To: MassRepublicanFlyersFan

Boeing has a much more reasonable union than the UAW and the Japanese don't make airplanes yet.


4 posted on 11/21/2005 2:38:48 PM PST by Odyssey-x
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To: Odyssey-x

Has the A-380 even flown yet?


5 posted on 11/21/2005 2:41:18 PM PST by GarySpFc (Sneakypete, De Oppresso Liber)
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To: Paleo Conservative

Ping


6 posted on 11/21/2005 2:41:55 PM PST by GarySpFc (Sneakypete, De Oppresso Liber)
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To: MassRepublicanFlyersFan

Check out this from the Boyd group on the future of the 380 and how the new 747 will undercut their sales.


A-380 WhaleJet: Even Less Demand Than Earlier Predicted

We are now revising our current Global Fleet Demand Forecast to accommodate the decision by Boeing to build a follow-on to the 747.

As before, the net in-fleet requirements for airliners in the +400 seat category is not expected to be particularly robust in terms of growth. However, the advent of the 747-8 represents the injection of new dynamics in the demand mix.

First, if this slightly larger model has significantly better economics, it would face strong demand mostly as a one-on-one replacement for the -400, as well as some A-340s. Since used widebodies will likely have very limited aftermarket demand as passenger airplanes, this would tend to shove a lot of additional 747-400s into the cargo conversion arena, which could have no telling what effect on residual values.

However, one effect it could have would be to yank just enough potential orders out from under the A-380 to make that program really, really financially challenging for Airbus. Just a dozen feet longer than the -400, the new 747 would not face a world where relatively few airports could handle it, making it a much more flexible aircraft than the A-380. And if the 747-8 can deprive the A-380 of say, 50 or 60 orders it would have otherwise registered, it could make sleeping at night much more difficult for the folks at Toulouse.

You Want the A-380? Or What's Behind Door #3? Boeing by no means holds all the cards. The A-380's flying now. The 747-8 is at least three years away. That means the pressure's on Airbus to peddle as many A-380s as fast as possible in the next 12 months to keep potential customers from deciding to wait for the new Boeing.

So for airlines, it's going to be let's-make-a-deal time with the local Airbus salesman. That, however, puts pricing pressure on Airbus - pricing pressure created by what right now is essentially a concept airplane.

The pressure is also on at Airbus to assure that the A-380 doesn't disappoint when it comes to promised performance and delivery dates. Otherwise, the Europeans will find that they've essentially built the successor to the MD-11.

Regardless, The 747-8 Will Take A Toll. As it stands, the A-380 has about 160 orders, give or take what might be announced this week at the air show in Dubai. With the 747-8 on the horizon, our initial pass at global fleet needs now points to a demand for fewer than 350 A-380s over the next 15 years.

http://www.aviationplanning.com/asrc1.htm


7 posted on 11/21/2005 2:43:52 PM PST by saganite (The poster formerly known as Arkie 2)
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To: flashbunny
airbus makes promises. boeing delivers.

Airbus makes beautiful promises. Boeing makes beautiful airplanes.

8 posted on 11/21/2005 2:44:33 PM PST by kidd
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To: farlander
..is far more attractive to the airlines than the Airbus A380 cattlewagon that requires runway extensions to accomodate it.

From what I've read,runway extensions are only the start for this monstrosity.

9 posted on 11/21/2005 2:47:21 PM PST by Gay State Conservative
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To: kidd

A-380 = Born Toulouse.


10 posted on 11/21/2005 2:47:24 PM PST by N. Theknow (Kennedys - Can't drive, can't fly, can't ski, can't skipper a boat - But they know what's best.)
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To: MassRepublicanFlyersFan

Was there ever a 717 model?


11 posted on 11/21/2005 2:49:27 PM PST by Finalapproach29er (Americans need to remember Osama's "strong horse" -"weak horse" analogy. Let's stop acting weak.)
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To: N. Theknow

LOL!


12 posted on 11/21/2005 2:53:09 PM PST by Frank_Discussion (May the wings of Liberty never lose a feather!)
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To: Gay State Conservative
Your right there the airports that will try to take these monstrosities will have to put $15mil in upgrades just to accommodate them
13 posted on 11/21/2005 2:53:37 PM PST by snowman1
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To: MassRepublicanFlyersFan

Congrats and good job, Boeing. Maybe GM could learn a thing or two from you.


14 posted on 11/21/2005 2:54:00 PM PST by manwiththehands
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To: Finalapproach29er

http://www.boeing.com/history/boeing/717.html "The airplane, formerly MD-95, was designated the Boeing 717 following the merger of McDonnell Douglas and The Boeing Company in 1997..."


15 posted on 11/21/2005 2:54:14 PM PST by Murtyo
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To: Finalapproach29er

When Boeing bought McDonnell Douglas they renamed the MD-95 the 717. They only sold a few hundred copies then closed the production line. If you fly AirTran you may be flying on a 717. TWA bought some also but after American bought TWA I think they got rid of them.


16 posted on 11/21/2005 2:56:08 PM PST by saganite (The poster formerly known as Arkie 2)
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To: Finalapproach29er
Was there ever a 717 model?


17 posted on 11/21/2005 2:56:16 PM PST by r9etb
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To: MassRepublicanFlyersFan

at this point it is all going to come down to "how much fuel does it take per passenger to get from point A to point B." nothing more. (or "per pound" for freight.)


18 posted on 11/21/2005 3:03:04 PM PST by kpp_kpp
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To: GarySpFc
The A-380 is in the proccess of completing a world tour. It has already visited Asia, Australia, and is curently at the Dubai Airshow.


19 posted on 11/21/2005 3:08:16 PM PST by Yo-Yo
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To: Gay State Conservative

the infrastructure changes required for the A380 do not approach those required for the 747 when it entered service... the differences are the magnitude of the infrastructure already in place, the resistance to airport expansion in general (and large aircraft specifically, even if they are quieter), the burden of post 9/11 security for huge aircraft, and the competition... the 747 was the only option then... it introduced the jumbo jet. the A380 will be bigger for sure, but it will NOT introduce a new era of per-seat-mile efficiency that pushes the entire aviation industry to meet its standard. the A380 may well break even for airbus, but it certainly will not be the cash cow that the '74'has been for boeing over the years.


20 posted on 11/21/2005 3:11:12 PM PST by leakinInTheBlueSea
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To: Finalapproach29er
Yes.... the Boeing 717 was the very same plane of McDonald Douglas MD-95.
21 posted on 11/21/2005 3:14:06 PM PST by Prophet in the wilderness (PSALM 53 : 1 The FOOL hath said in his heart , There is no GOD .)
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To: Prophet in the wilderness; Finalapproach29er
Yes.... the Boeing 717 was the very same plane of McDonald Douglas MD-95.

It's McDonnell Douglas not McDonald Douglas.


22 posted on 11/21/2005 3:19:59 PM PST by Paleo Conservative (Hey hey ho ho Andy Heyward's got to go!)
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To: Odyssey-x
and the Japanese don't make airplanes yet.

That is a scary thought to even consider.

23 posted on 11/21/2005 3:21:09 PM PST by montag813
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To: Murtyo; All

Thanks to all. I'd not heard of that.


24 posted on 11/21/2005 3:38:50 PM PST by Finalapproach29er (Americans need to remember Osama's "strong horse" -"weak horse" analogy. Let's stop acting weak.)
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To: Odyssey-x
and the Japanese don't make airplanes yet.

Actually, the proper phrase would be:

The Japanese have not resumed the making of airplanes yet

Though, for the most part, their heavy bombers/transports of WWII weren't the best. They were much better at making fighters..

25 posted on 11/21/2005 3:52:32 PM PST by Experiment 6-2-6 (Admn Mods: tiny, malicious things that glare and gibber from dark corners.They have pins and dolls..)
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To: MassRepublicanFlyersFan
The A380, like the Concorde, is more about prestige than anything else. Boeing could have built a better SST or a better leviathan, but neither was financially viable. Boeing builds what will sell. Airbus is built by a consortium of third-rate countries that are trying to prove to themselves that they are superior. All they have done instead is to make inept business decisions.
26 posted on 11/21/2005 3:58:20 PM PST by AlaskaErik (Everyone should have a subject they are ignorant about. I choose professional corporate sports.)
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To: MassRepublicanFlyersFan

bump for publicity


27 posted on 11/21/2005 4:00:05 PM PST by VOA
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To: MassRepublicanFlyersFan


Who would want French garbage when you could have one of these?
If its not a Boeing, I am not going!
28 posted on 11/21/2005 4:05:00 PM PST by wjcsux
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To: wjcsux

29 posted on 11/21/2005 4:20:17 PM PST by Fresh Wind (Democrats are guilty of whatever they scream the loudest about.)
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To: Experiment 6-2-6
Actually, the proper phrase would be:

The Japanese have not resumed the making of airplanes yet

Actually, Japanese have resumed the making of airplanes. In addition to making several components of various Boeing and Airbus aircraft, They have built 138 McDonnell Douglass F-4E Phantom IIs, nearly 200 McDonnell Douglass/Boeing F-15Js, and 60 CH-47s, all under license.

The proper phrase would be:

The Japanese have not chosen to enter the passenger aircraft marktet yet.

30 posted on 11/21/2005 5:22:11 PM PST by Yo-Yo
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To: Yo-Yo
Oh yeah, I forgot. Japan is also manufacturing the F-2, a domestic variant on the F-16, with all Japanese avionics and with a Japanees-designed composite wing.


31 posted on 11/21/2005 5:27:01 PM PST by Yo-Yo
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To: Finalapproach29er

Yes. From Boeing's site:

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/717/background.html


32 posted on 11/21/2005 7:42:22 PM PST by ConservativeStatement
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To: MassRepublicanFlyersFan

Thanks. It's facinating that it didn't rollout until the late 90's.

Did they start with the 727 -and skip 717- long ago? Isn't that odd?


33 posted on 11/21/2005 11:29:06 PM PST by Finalapproach29er (Americans need to remember Osama's "strong horse" -"weak horse" analogy. Let's stop acting weak.)
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To: saganite
Who the hell would want to be on that Airbus cattle car? Imagine the lines at the luggage carousel or for customs when one of those whales lands.
34 posted on 11/21/2005 11:33:14 PM PST by Kozak (Anti Shahada: " There is no God named Allah, and Muhammed is his False Prophet")
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To: Finalapproach29er

They started with the 707. Then Boeing decided to stay with the "seven oh (blank)" numbering scheme, so they skipped the 717 because they didn't want it pronounced "seven seventeen." After they bought Mcdonnell Douglas, I guess they preferred "seven seventeen" to "MD-95" or something similar (Boeing MD-95? BMD-95?)

They have now gone on to the 727, 737, 747, 757, 767, 777, and the 787. What they will do after the 797 is anybody's guess.


35 posted on 11/22/2005 12:55:38 PM PST by Yo-Yo
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To: Gay State Conservative

Runway Extensions, new termals to unload the double decker beast... etc etc etc.. this thing is going to be lucky to break even.

Airbus bet the farm on this whale, and thus far its pushed back delivery dates, and not performed.

Alas, EU will bail it out when they go belly up due to this beast. Its a very very limited niche airplane, I just don't see how they are going to sell enough make money on it.


36 posted on 11/22/2005 1:01:08 PM PST by HamiltonJay
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To: Yo-Yo

What they will do after the 797 is anybody's guess.



Thanks. Maybe they will use a letter for the middle digit
-> 7A7,7B7,7C7...
Just a guess.


37 posted on 11/22/2005 4:59:14 PM PST by Finalapproach29er (Americans need to remember Osama's "strong horse" -"weak horse" analogy. Let's stop acting weak.)
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To: kidd
"Airbus makes beautiful promises. Boeing makes beautiful airplanes."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_Sonic_Cruiser

Still a beautiful plane.
38 posted on 11/28/2005 4:16:36 AM PST by MHalblaub (Tell me in four more years (No, I did not vote for Kerry))
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To: Experiment 6-2-6
"They were much better at making fighters.."

Their fighters had the advantages of superior speed and maneuverability (especially early on in the war), but they weren't very rugged. In the end, heavy metal won out over bamboo and cloth.
39 posted on 11/28/2005 4:28:03 AM PST by LIConFem (A fronte praecipitium, a tergo lupi.)
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