Skip to comments.Boeing Is Coming Up Sevens
Posted on 11/21/2005 2:30:56 PM PST by ConservativeStatement
Boeing (NYSE: BA) shareholders, rejoice! The company is rolling lucky sevens -- as in 777s, 787s, and 737s. The lifeblood of aircraft manufacturing is the order book, and Boeing has a fat one now. And for a company recently overwhelmed by questions regarding its corporate governance practices and ongoing competition due to forthcoming Airbus product releases, that has to be a nice thing to hear.
(Excerpt) Read more at fool.com ...
In related news, Airbus CEO claims they'll shortly catch up... Well, it sure looks like Boeing's 787 high efficiency bird is far more attractive to the airlines than the Airbus A380 cattlewagon that requires runway extensions to accomodate it. Thank you for playing.
airbus makes promises. boeing delivers.
Boeing has a much more reasonable union than the UAW and the Japanese don't make airplanes yet.
Has the A-380 even flown yet?
Check out this from the Boyd group on the future of the 380 and how the new 747 will undercut their sales.
A-380 WhaleJet: Even Less Demand Than Earlier Predicted
We are now revising our current Global Fleet Demand Forecast to accommodate the decision by Boeing to build a follow-on to the 747.
As before, the net in-fleet requirements for airliners in the +400 seat category is not expected to be particularly robust in terms of growth. However, the advent of the 747-8 represents the injection of new dynamics in the demand mix.
First, if this slightly larger model has significantly better economics, it would face strong demand mostly as a one-on-one replacement for the -400, as well as some A-340s. Since used widebodies will likely have very limited aftermarket demand as passenger airplanes, this would tend to shove a lot of additional 747-400s into the cargo conversion arena, which could have no telling what effect on residual values.
However, one effect it could have would be to yank just enough potential orders out from under the A-380 to make that program really, really financially challenging for Airbus. Just a dozen feet longer than the -400, the new 747 would not face a world where relatively few airports could handle it, making it a much more flexible aircraft than the A-380. And if the 747-8 can deprive the A-380 of say, 50 or 60 orders it would have otherwise registered, it could make sleeping at night much more difficult for the folks at Toulouse.
You Want the A-380? Or What's Behind Door #3? Boeing by no means holds all the cards. The A-380's flying now. The 747-8 is at least three years away. That means the pressure's on Airbus to peddle as many A-380s as fast as possible in the next 12 months to keep potential customers from deciding to wait for the new Boeing.
So for airlines, it's going to be let's-make-a-deal time with the local Airbus salesman. That, however, puts pricing pressure on Airbus - pricing pressure created by what right now is essentially a concept airplane.
The pressure is also on at Airbus to assure that the A-380 doesn't disappoint when it comes to promised performance and delivery dates. Otherwise, the Europeans will find that they've essentially built the successor to the MD-11.
Regardless, The 747-8 Will Take A Toll. As it stands, the A-380 has about 160 orders, give or take what might be announced this week at the air show in Dubai. With the 747-8 on the horizon, our initial pass at global fleet needs now points to a demand for fewer than 350 A-380s over the next 15 years.
Airbus makes beautiful promises. Boeing makes beautiful airplanes.
From what I've read,runway extensions are only the start for this monstrosity.
A-380 = Born Toulouse.
Was there ever a 717 model?
Congrats and good job, Boeing. Maybe GM could learn a thing or two from you.
http://www.boeing.com/history/boeing/717.html "The airplane, formerly MD-95, was designated the Boeing 717 following the merger of McDonnell Douglas and The Boeing Company in 1997..."
When Boeing bought McDonnell Douglas they renamed the MD-95 the 717. They only sold a few hundred copies then closed the production line. If you fly AirTran you may be flying on a 717. TWA bought some also but after American bought TWA I think they got rid of them.
at this point it is all going to come down to "how much fuel does it take per passenger to get from point A to point B." nothing more. (or "per pound" for freight.)
the infrastructure changes required for the A380 do not approach those required for the 747 when it entered service... the differences are the magnitude of the infrastructure already in place, the resistance to airport expansion in general (and large aircraft specifically, even if they are quieter), the burden of post 9/11 security for huge aircraft, and the competition... the 747 was the only option then... it introduced the jumbo jet. the A380 will be bigger for sure, but it will NOT introduce a new era of per-seat-mile efficiency that pushes the entire aviation industry to meet its standard. the A380 may well break even for airbus, but it certainly will not be the cash cow that the '74'has been for boeing over the years.
It's McDonnell Douglas not McDonald Douglas.
That is a scary thought to even consider.
Thanks to all. I'd not heard of that.
Actually, the proper phrase would be:
The Japanese have not resumed the making of airplanes yet
Though, for the most part, their heavy bombers/transports of WWII weren't the best. They were much better at making fighters..
bump for publicity
The Japanese have not resumed the making of airplanes yet
Actually, Japanese have resumed the making of airplanes. In addition to making several components of various Boeing and Airbus aircraft, They have built 138 McDonnell Douglass F-4E Phantom IIs, nearly 200 McDonnell Douglass/Boeing F-15Js, and 60 CH-47s, all under license.
The proper phrase would be:
The Japanese have not chosen to enter the passenger aircraft marktet yet.
Yes. From Boeing's site:
Thanks. It's facinating that it didn't rollout until the late 90's.
Did they start with the 727 -and skip 717- long ago? Isn't that odd?
They started with the 707. Then Boeing decided to stay with the "seven oh (blank)" numbering scheme, so they skipped the 717 because they didn't want it pronounced "seven seventeen." After they bought Mcdonnell Douglas, I guess they preferred "seven seventeen" to "MD-95" or something similar (Boeing MD-95? BMD-95?)
They have now gone on to the 727, 737, 747, 757, 767, 777, and the 787. What they will do after the 797 is anybody's guess.
Runway Extensions, new termals to unload the double decker beast... etc etc etc.. this thing is going to be lucky to break even.
Airbus bet the farm on this whale, and thus far its pushed back delivery dates, and not performed.
Alas, EU will bail it out when they go belly up due to this beast. Its a very very limited niche airplane, I just don't see how they are going to sell enough make money on it.
What they will do after the 797 is anybody's guess.