How the U.S. Is Getting Beat in Online Gambling

Time ^ | Sunday, Nov. 20, 2005 | PETER GUMBEL

[saleman]

Maybe you wouldn't call this gambling..but..I live in a small town in the South. An "investment" opportunity came through town call the Friends Network. You paid $1,500 bucks and recruited like, six "friends" to invest $1,500 and when you got to the top you collected $7,500. Classic Ponzi scheme. Well after about a week the 3 banks in town were out of cash. Literally. Talk about sucking money from the economy. I actually saw people carrying bags of money around. Lots of money. That was nearly 10 years ago and there's still alot of bad blood around from people who lost money to folks they trusted. Course I suppose most of the money went back into the local economy.....

[sgtbono2002]

Sorry I stepped on your toes, I didnt realise that you were making millions gambling.Gambling and drinking are a bit alike , Some can handle it and others cant. I am sure you are the former.

I have found in life that in order to be a good gambler it takes a lot of practice. It takes a lot of losing to begin to get good enough to start winning. I enjoy a good poker or pitch game with friends for dimes and quarters. You see we are all about equal in skill and one night we lose another we win. I dont gamble in Casino's because the odds are for the casino., No person will constantly win at a casino, its impossible. In fact if you do they will bar you. Different strokes for different folks, as long as you arent hurting your family and enjoy playing , have at it.

I stated Las Vegas was built by losers I was wrong, It was built by winners who took advantage of the losers.The winners being casino operators. But if thats your thing---enjoy.

[Jorge]

I've known people who've spent what I consider to be excessive sums on their cars, on their boats, on sports memorabilia, and on stamp collecting.

The difference is that they have something of value to show for their excesses.

Those who gamble their money away have nothing of value, or anything tangible to show for it.

We live in a free society, and people should be free to make their own choices, even if they're bad ones.

Yes, and we are also free to criticize those choices and encourage people to get help when they throw their lives away on compulsive gambling.

If you're talking about offshore gambling, you are correct... and the solution is to legalize gambling in the United States. But if you're talking about someone gambling away his money in this country, that doesn't suck a dime out of the local economy.

Actually it does.
Gambling money doesn't grow on trees, it comes out of people's pockets.

Every dollar spent in a casino or slot machine is a dollar not spent in another business.
Gambling can only help a local economy if the vast majority of players live somewhere else.

According to gaming industry surveys, approximately 2 million Pennsylvanians take an estimated 9.6 million trips outside the state to gamble every year.
The primary argument for legalized gambling in Pennsylvania is the enormous amount of money out of state gambling (primarily Atlantic City) sucks out of the local economy.

[Politicalities]

I didnt realise that you were making millions gambling

And I didn't realize that English wasn't your first language. How else to explain the way that you somehow inferred tha I was "making millions gambling" when I said the exact opposite?

Gambling and drinking are a bit alike , Some can handle it and others cant

For that matter, some can handle fast food and some can't. Some can handle driving and some can't. Some can handle a DVD player and some can't. In fact, for just about every human activity, some people can handle it, and some can't.

I have found in life that in order to be a good gambler it takes a lot of practice. It takes a lot of losing to begin to get good enough to start winning.

Once again you completely miss the point. It's impossible to "win" when going to a movie theater, or going to a restaurant, or going to an arcade. You are 100% certain to walk out with less money than you started with. That doesn't mean that any of these activities are not worthwhile... it just means that in order to engage in them, one must be willing to trade money for entertainment. Just as casino players are.

I stated Las Vegas was built by losers I was wrong, It was built by winners who took advantage of the losers.

And is everybody who goes to a movie theater a "loser"? Are the motion picture studios taking advantage of these losers?

Gambling (at least for some) is fun. It's exciting. I get a great deal of enjoyment from going to a table, socializing with the other players, and feeling my heart pound as the cards are turned or the dice are rolled. I'm fully aware that the odds are that this experience will cost me money, just as it would cost me money to see a movie or go to a NASCAR race. I'm willing to pay the cost. This does not make me an idiot, it does not make me a loser, and it most definitely does not make me bad at math.

[Politicalities]

The difference is that they have something of value to show for their excesses.

Oh really. What does a trading card collector have to show for his excesses other than some brightly colored pieces of cardboard? What does a movie patron have to show for his excesses other than a few hours of entertainment?

Yes, and we are also free to criticize those choices and encourage people to get help when they throw their lives away on compulsive gambling.

Encourage away, as long as by "encourage" you mean "persuade", not "force." The latter is what happens when governments get involved.

Actually it does. Gambling money doesn't grow on trees, it comes out of people's pockets. Every dollar spent in a casino or slot machine is a dollar not spent in another business.

And then the casino takes it and puts it under a mattress, right?

Wrong. The casino takes the money and gives it to its employees. It gives it to contractors who build improvements and additions. It pays it in dividends to shareholders, who turn around and give it to other businesses, or invest it.

Money spent in a casino helps the economy in exactly the same way that money spent on any other good or service does.

The primary argument for legalized gambling in Pennsylvania is the enormous amount of money out of state gambling (primarily Atlantic City) sucks out of the local economy.

Yes... because all that money spent on gambling would help the local economy if it stayed local. Now it's going to help New Jersey's economy instead. And the literally billions of dollars spent on Internet gambling are going to help the economies of tiny Caribbean islands, rather than remaining in the United States.

[Jorge]

"Yes, and we are also free to criticize those choices and encourage people to get help when they throw their lives away on compulsive gambling."

Encourage away, as long as by "encourage" you mean "persuade", not "force." The latter is what happens when governments get involved.

Well I don't know anyone here who favors putting gamblers in concentration camps.

[Hank Rearden]

Screw Big Stupid Government.

Speak, Tagline, Speak!

Goooood Tagline.

[Jorge]

"The difference is that they have something of value to show for their excesses."

Oh really. What does a trading card collector have to show for his excesses other than some brightly colored pieces of cardboard?

Those "brightly colored pieces of cardboard" have a dollar value on the market for trading cards.

They can be sold.

Having ZERO dollars left after gambling away money in a casino has ZERO value. Zip-Nada-Nothing!

[Jorge]

Yes... because all that money spent on gambling would help the local economy if it stayed local. Now it's going to help New Jersey's economy instead. And the literally billions of dollars spent on Internet gambling are going to help the economies of tiny Caribbean islands, rather than remaining in the United States.

Thank you!

You just made my argument.

[JTN]

Well I don't know anyone here who favors putting gamblers in concentration camps.

Trust me, there are plenty of Freepers who want gambling to be illegal.

[JTN]

Thanks, man.

[Politicalities]

Well I don't know anyone here who favors putting gamblers in concentration camps.

I know plenty of people who favor putting gamblers in prison. And there are plenty of laws on the books to do just that. Go try to open an online casino in the United States and see what happens.

Having ZERO dollars left after gambling away money in a casino has ZERO value. Zip-Nada-Nothing!

While having ZERO dollars left after seeing a movie is neverthless a bargain, right? What about somebody whose hobby is his car, who buys premium gasoline and fuel additives for it? Once they're burned, what's left? He has Zip-Nada-Nothing!

You just made my argument.

Uh, no, your argument was that gambling sucks money out of the local economy very fast... and to support that, you cited Pennsylvania's economy being harmed by gambling in New Jersey. Seems to me it's a lack of gambling that's harming Pennsylvania, as it forces consumers of gambling services to take their money elsewhere. You also argued (rather stupidly) that every dollar spent in gambling is a dollar not spent elsewhere, an argument that could be used to claim that every provider of a good or service is sucking money out of the economy.

[Lloyd227]

"Money will not purchase happiness for the man who has no concept of what he wants: money will not give him a code of values, if he's evaded the knowledge of what to value, and it will not provide him with a purpose, if he's evaded the choice of what to seek. Money will not buy intelligence for the fool, or admiration for the coward, or respect for the incompetent. The man who attempts to purchase the brains of his superiors to serve him, with his money replacing his judgment, ends up by becoming the victim of his inferiors. The men of intelligence desert him, but the cheats and the frauds come flocking to him, drawn by a law which he has not discovered: that no man may be smaller than his money. Is this the reason why you call it evil? "Only the man who does not need it, is fit to inherit wealth--the man who would make his own fortune no matter where he started. If an heir is equal to his money, it serves him; if not, it destroys him. But you look on and you cry that money corrupted him. Did it? Or did he corrupt his money? Do not envy a worthless heir; his wealth is not yours and you would have done no better with it. Do not think that it should have been distributed among you; loading the world with fifty parasites instead of one, would not bring back the dead virtue which was the fortune. Money is a living power that dies without its root. Money will not serve the mind that cannot match it. Is this the reason why you call it evil?"

Francisco's Money Speech, Ayn Rand

[bigsigh]

It doesn't effect me that gambling is legal or illegal except that some of my tax money may be spent to enforce gambling laws. I don't like the government spending my money on stopping stupidity. It's a never ending battle. LOL!

[sgtbono2002]

Evidently you dont read so well either. You altogether missed the part where I said if you arent hurting your family go ahead and do as you like.

You sound like a man with the gambling fever, in the parts where you speak of your heart racing at the turn of a card or the roll of a dice. I suggest you be careful gambling can be an addiction as bad as alcohol or drugs and has ruined a lot of good people.

I wish you nothing but the best and suggest you place a limit on what you can afford to lose and walk away, when its gone. From your posts you sound like you could have a problem. Like the habitual casual drug user who says they can stop anytime, before they realise they cant.

I hope for your sake I am wrong.

[MilspecRob]

and Anurag Dikshit, an Indian software whiz whom Bhargava met Now there's a fun last name to go through life with.

I once didn't hire a just OK job applicant because his last name was Nipple. I mean how could you take a Engineer seriously with a name like Nipple. "Have a seat Mr. Nipple", or "So Nipple, what do you think"

I just keep thinking during the interview, Why didn't you change it our at least put some sort of accent mark on it!.

[frogjerk]

Poker Ping list

Freepmail me to be put on the poker ping list

Thanks to JTN for the heads up.

[Jorge]

You also argued (rather stupidly) that every dollar spent in gambling is a dollar not spent elsewhere...

Uh, which is a fact which nobody in their right mind would EVER dispute.

...an argument that could be used to claim that every provider of a good or service is sucking money out of the economy.

Talk about "stupid", you really need to learn to read posts before you respond to them.

My point obviously went right over your head.

[Jorge]

"Having ZERO dollars left after gambling away money in a casino has ZERO value. Zip-Nada-Nothing!"

While having ZERO dollars left after seeing a movie is neverthless a bargain, right?

Right. And if the examples you used don't work for your argument, just keep switching to new ones. Eventually your post will make sense. LOL

[Politicalities]

"You also argued (rather stupidly) that every dollar spent in gambling is a dollar not spent elsewhere..."

Uh, which is a fact which nobody in their right mind would EVER dispute.

I'm not disputing it, I'm saying that drawing the conclusion that therefore gambling drains money from the economy is a non sequitur. A dollar spent on anything is a dollar not spent elsewhere; does it therefore follow that all commercial activity is a drain on the economy? Obviously not. And your present objection is the equivalent of somebody saying, "The sun rises in the east, therefore hamburgers are made out of dog food," and when somebody disputes his conclusion retorting, "What, are you saying that the sun doesn't rise in the east?"

Talk about "stupid", you really need to learn to read posts before you respond to them. My point obviously went right over your head.

Obviously so. So go ahead, clarify. If you can. Because it sure sounded to me like you were arguing that gambling's negative impact on the economy follows from the fact that dollars spent gambling are dollars not spent elsewhere. If that wasn't your argument, why even bring up the mind-bogglingly banal fact that dollars spent gambling are not spent elsewhere?

Right. And if the examples you used don't work for your argument, just keep switching to new ones.

No, I switched examples because you decided to get anal retentive. You rejected trading card collectors as being in the same category as gamblers because they get "something of value"... despite the fact that what they acquire has no intrinsic value, that it is valuable simply because other people are willing to pay for it... because other people suffer from the same addiction to a hobby. I'm simply pointing out that people spend money on things they find entertaining, and don't necessarily get "something of value" beyond sheer entertainment in return. What about people who attend concerts? Who play golf? Should these activities be illegal or restricted by law since those who engage in them get nothing of value in return?

Eventually your post will make sense. LOL

Every one of my posts has made perfect sense, although they may be beyond your ability to grasp. I do appreciate that you can find humor in your lack of comprehension, though.