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New Policy: Southern Baptist Missionary Candidates Can't Speak in Tongues
Beliefnet ^ | Nov. 23 2005Beliefnet | Adelle M. Banks

Posted on 11/24/2005 6:32:38 AM PST by tutstar

The Southern Baptist Convention's International Mission Board has adopted a new policy that forbids missionary candidates from speaking in tongues.

The policy, adopted Nov. 15 during the board's trustee meeting in Huntsville, Ala., reflects ongoing Southern Baptist opposition to charismatic or Pentecostal practices.

(Excerpt) Read more at beliefnet.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: baptist; charismatic; giftsofthespirit; jibberjabber; pentecostal; sbc; speakingintongues
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"In terms of general practice, the majority of Southern Baptists do not accept what is referred to as `private prayer language,"' states the policy, according to a denomination announcement. "Therefore, if `private prayer language' is an ongoing part of his or her conviction and practice, the candidate has eliminated himself or herself from being a representative of the IMB (International Mission Board) of the SBC (Southern Baptist Convention)."
1 posted on 11/24/2005 6:32:40 AM PST by tutstar
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To: Nightshift; WKB; Sybeck1; pamlet; aumrl; mariabush; nmh; Ingtar; Blogger; Sweet Hour of Prayer; ...

Happy Thanksgiving Everyone~!


2 posted on 11/24/2005 6:34:48 AM PST by tutstar (Baptist Ping List Freepmail me if you want on or off this ping list.)
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To: tutstar; 4CJ
Battle lines being drawn;
Nobody's right
When everybody's wrong...

4CJ, Happy Thanksgiving to y'all!!!! Amen!

3 posted on 11/24/2005 6:36:23 AM PST by Tazzer (Christians! Return to snake-handling!!)
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To: tutstar

...whew...wipes forehead in relief...I guess IMB won't kick me off the field

Happy THANKSgiving to you and yours, tutstar.


4 posted on 11/24/2005 6:38:46 AM PST by jer33 3
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To: Tazzer; billbears

And billbears, Happy Thanksgiving from Ff--150 and Silverwoman1. May all your prayers be answered swiftly, my friend!


5 posted on 11/24/2005 6:39:54 AM PST by Tazzer (Christians! Return to snake-handling!!)
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To: Tazzer

Well there are at least 2 freepers online this fine Thanksgiving morning.

Blessings!


6 posted on 11/24/2005 6:42:12 AM PST by tutstar (Baptist Ping List Freepmail me if you want on or off this ping list.)
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To: tutstar

Thanks be to Jesus. This is a problem we've discussed often in private, and I'm glad to see it getting some public attention.


7 posted on 11/24/2005 6:43:23 AM PST by Kjobs (Murtha IS A COWARD!! Go Jean Schmidt!)
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To: tutstar

Good Morning, tutstar. There are now at least three Baptists posting. Have a joyful and relaxing Thanksgiving.


8 posted on 11/24/2005 6:45:05 AM PST by BTHOtu
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To: tutstar
I am somewhat appalled by this ruling of the SBC, and IMB. I am a student of the scriptures and am currently serving in a southern baptist church. My problem with this is that personal practices "barring sin" should be solely left to the discretion of ministers, if we limit the way that these ministers worship God, then we tie their hands as to the effectiveness of their ministry.

The scripture is very clear in Corinthians as to the "personal prayer language" though it is not to be spoken in open during the duration of the service unless an interpreter is present, the Bible is very clear that it does exist, and that it is a gift from God. Banning any Christian from experiencing and or using one of Gods gifts is coming dangerously close to the very thing that led certain people to flee their homelands and inhabit this country, and yet people wonder why new "denominations" pop up every day. What do we expect when we pick and choose the parts of the Bible we choose to believe and practice.
9 posted on 11/24/2005 6:48:16 AM PST by whispering out loud (the bible is either 100% true, or in it's very nature it is 100% a lie)
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To: jer33 3

Thanks!! and the same wishes for you too!!

Glad you get to keep your job! 8^)


10 posted on 11/24/2005 6:48:29 AM PST by tutstar (Baptist Ping List Freepmail me if you want on or off this ping list.)
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To: tutstar
"Blessings!"

Backatcha! :>

The article is sad because praying in tongues is the Greatest Secret of all--no if, and buts about it. Oh well...

11 posted on 11/24/2005 6:49:57 AM PST by Tazzer (Christians! Return to snake-handling!!)
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To: tutstar
The Southern Baptist Convention's International Mission Board has adopted a new policy that forbids missionary candidates from speaking in tongues

It cuts the staff in half !

No need for interpreters.

b'shem Y'shua

12 posted on 11/24/2005 6:52:00 AM PST by Uri’el-2012 (Y'shua <==> YHvH is my Salvation (Psalm 118-14))
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To: whispering out loud

Well what are you going to do with I Cor 13:8?


13 posted on 11/24/2005 6:52:02 AM PST by tutstar (Baptist Ping List Freepmail me if you want on or off this ping list.)
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To: Tazzer

Is there a need for prayer?


14 posted on 11/24/2005 6:52:28 AM PST by tutstar (Baptist Ping List Freepmail me if you want on or off this ping list.)
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To: tutstar
The Southern Baptist Convention's International Mission Board has adopted a new policy that forbids missionary candidates from speaking in tongues.

Especially at the interview!

15 posted on 11/24/2005 6:53:28 AM PST by nina0113 (Former Southern Baptist)
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To: Kjobs; WKB

I had no clue it was even an issue. Thanks to WKB I do.


16 posted on 11/24/2005 6:53:29 AM PST by tutstar (Baptist Ping List Freepmail me if you want on or off this ping list.)
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To: BTHOtu

I have so much to be thankful for!!
May we all thank the Lord for the gift of life we have today. May we realize its value in good health and not only in the bad.


It will be a great day I'm sure! The cook doesn't get to relax though, does she?


17 posted on 11/24/2005 6:56:16 AM PST by tutstar (Baptist Ping List Freepmail me if you want on or off this ping list.)
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To: tutstar
this is a very misinterpreted passage, It simply states that All the gifts of the spirit are given in individual lives "for a season", accept for love. Love is the ultimate command for us as Christians. If we take the words quite literal, then no one in todays church would have any knowledge either.
18 posted on 11/24/2005 6:59:31 AM PST by whispering out loud (the bible is either 100% true, or in it's very nature it is 100% a lie)
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To: tutstar

Will they cut the day of Pentecost from their bibles now?


19 posted on 11/24/2005 7:01:41 AM PST by sausageseller (Look out for the jackbooted spelling police. There! Everywhere!(revised cause the "man" accosted me!)
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To: tutstar

When I clicked on this, I thought it might be something from ScrappleFace. It just struck me as odd.


20 posted on 11/24/2005 7:03:20 AM PST by FourtySeven (47)
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To: BTHOtu

http://www.middletownbiblechurch.org/doctrine/charis35.pdf


21 posted on 11/24/2005 7:04:49 AM PST by RaceBannon ((Prov 28:1 KJV) The wicked flee when no man pursueth: but the righteous are bold as a lion.)
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To: whispering out loud

It has to do with Sound Doctrine.

Every Church has an imperitive to hold to what the Bible Teaches. Some are right, some are wrong, in what they hold to.

the SBC has every right to withold membership or positions on this.


22 posted on 11/24/2005 7:06:37 AM PST by RaceBannon ((Prov 28:1 KJV) The wicked flee when no man pursueth: but the righteous are bold as a lion.)
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To: tutstar
The scripture is very clear in Corinthians as to the "personal prayer language" though it is not to be spoken in open during the duration of the service unless an interpreter is present, the Bible is very clear that it does exist, and that it is a gift from God. Banning any Christian from experiencing and or using one of Gods gifts is coming dangerously close to the very thing that led certain people to flee their homelands and inhabit this country, and yet people wonder why new "denominations" pop up every day. What do we expect when we pick and choose the parts of the Bible we choose to believe and practice. -say it loud

Well what are you going to do with I Cor 13:8?- tut tut

Just for clarification, how does that respond to the post? I am ambivalent on the practice.

(My Credentials: Bible College Graduate; elected and served as Deacon, in SB Church; representative at SBC, San Antonio, TX)

1 Cor 13: 1 If I speak in human and angelic tongues 2 but do not have love, I am a resounding gong or a clashing cymbal.

2 And if I have the gift of prophecy and comprehend all mysteries and all knowledge; if I have all faith so as to move mountains but do not have love, I am nothing.

3 If I give away everything I own, and if I hand my body over so that I may boast but do not have love, I gain nothing.

4 Love is patient, love is kind. It is not jealous, (love) is not pompous, it is not inflated,

5 it is not rude, it does not seek its own interests, it is not quick-tempered, it does not brood over injury,

6 it does not rejoice over wrongdoing but rejoices with the truth.

7 It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

8 Love never fails. If there are prophecies, they will be brought to nothing; if tongues, they will cease; if knowledge, it will be brought to nothing.

9 For we know partially and we prophesy partially,

10 but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away.

11 When I was a child, I used to talk as a child, think as a child, reason as a child; when I became a man, I put aside childish things.

12 At present we see indistinctly, as in a mirror, but then face to face. At present I know partially; then I shall know fully, as I am fully known.

13 So faith, hope, love remain, these three; but the greatest of these is love.

23 posted on 11/24/2005 7:08:07 AM PST by pageonetoo (You'll spot their posts soon enough!)
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To: Tazzer

Tongues is not a secret at all. It is a sign for UNBELIEVERS, not believers.

(1 Cor 14:22 KJV) Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

(1 Cor 14:23 KJV) If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?


24 posted on 11/24/2005 7:08:46 AM PST by RaceBannon ((Prov 28:1 KJV) The wicked flee when no man pursueth: but the righteous are bold as a lion.)
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To: tutstar

HAPPY THANKSGIVING FROM THE NORTHERN BAPTIST FLOCK TO ALL BRETHREN!


25 posted on 11/24/2005 7:09:22 AM PST by alpha-8-25-02 ("SAVED BY GRACE AND GRACE ALONE")
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To: tutstar

1Cr 14:39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.

But I'm sure there is an exemption clause in there somewhere for the SBC.


26 posted on 11/24/2005 7:10:41 AM PST by Eagle Eye (There ought to be a law against excess legislation.)
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To: tutstar
Works for me.

I don't think the mission field lacks for missionaries who, formally or informally, deny the completeness and sufficiency of Scripture or the close of the Canon.

Dan
Straight Talk on Tongues

27 posted on 11/24/2005 7:10:58 AM PST by BibChr ("...behold, they have rejected the word of the LORD, so what wisdom is in them?" [Jer. 8:9])
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To: whispering out loud; billbears
I am a student of the scriptures and am currently serving in a southern baptist church. My problem with this is that personal practices "barring sin" should be solely left to the discretion of ministers, if we limit the way that these ministers worship God, then we tie their hands as to the effectiveness of their ministry.

I am a Baptist and I also serve. If people started speaking in tongues in our services, I would terminate contact with that church if the deacons did not deal with it immediately and effectively. In the one instance where it ever occurred, it was dealt with firmly but charitably within five minutes and with no ambiguity about how Baptists consider the matter. I credit the SBC pastor because the rest of us were so shocked we were almost speechless. It was the only exposure I've had to such practices. Hopefully, it will be the last.

If I want to listen to babble, I can attend an AOG or watch ABCNNBCBS.

If Baptists want to babble in private, that's their own problem but I would oppose them holding positions in any Baptist church. I expect those types will either make a sneaky takeover attempt with babble-friends to create an ex-Baptist church or they will gravitate to a church known for offering novelties.

David Cloud: Charismatic Southern Baptists
According to some reports, many Southern Baptist missionaries are open to the charismatic movement, though they are cautious about how they express this. Charles Carroll, SBC missionary to Singapore, was dismissed by the Southern Baptist International Mission Board in 1995 because of his charismatic activities. Carroll testifies that many Baptists living overseas are already charismatic, but most remain "in the closet" for fear of being fired ("Baptist Missionaries in the Closet," Charisma, March 1999, p. 72). Carroll has observed that the charismatic movement is rapidly taking root among the denominations. He "predicts that charismatic experience will become such a nonissue that people will wonder what the fuss was about."
This insistence that Baptist missionaries present the pure and simple Gospel overseas as it is presented at home is nothing extraordinary. It's long overdue. There is no reason to support Baptist missionaries if they teach and practice that would result in their expulsion from American Baptist churches.
28 posted on 11/24/2005 7:12:27 AM PST by George W. Bush
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To: sausageseller

Pentacost is not the issue. Whether those same gifts that the Church once had, and the early Church admits disappeared, are still valid today is the issue.

http://www.middletownbiblechurch.org/doctrine/charis35.htm

15. Can unsaved people speak in tongues?





The Biblical gift of tongues was the supernatural ability to speak in a foreign language which the speaker had never learned. An unsaved person would not have the God-given ability to do this. Spiritual gifts are given to believers at the point of salvation, not to unbelievers.

The modern day phenomena of speaking ecstatic utterances (glossolalia) is something quite different. There are countless examples of unsaved people speaking in tongues. Here are but a few:

1) In the second century the Montanists spoke in tongues. This was a heretical group especially noted for their heresies concerning the Holy Spirit. The following is a description of Montanus and his followers by Eusebius in his History of the Church:

Montanus, in his unbridled ambition to reach the top, laid himself open to the adversary, was filled with spiritual excitement and suddenly fell into a kind of trance and unnatural ecstasy. He raved, and began to chatter and talk nonsense, prophesying in a way that conflicted with the practice of the Church handed down generation by generation from the beginning. Of those who listened at that time to his sham utterances some were annoyed, regarding him as possessed, a demoniac in the grip of a spirit of error, a disturber of the masses. They rebuked him and tried to stop his chatter, remembering the distinction drawn by the Lord, and His warning to guard vigilantly against the coming of false prophets....Then he secretly stirred up and inflamed minds closed to the true Faith, raising up in this way two others—women whom he filled with the sham spirit, so that they chattered crazily, inopportunely, and wildly, like Montanus himself.

According to Eusebius, this practice of tongues speaking was totally contrary to the practice of the Church. Indeed, Montanus and his followers were excommunicated from the Church.

2) Irenaeus wrote the following concerning the second century heretic Marcus:

Marcus to a woman, "Receive first from me and by me the gift of Charis..." Woman: "I have never at any time prophesied, nor do I know how to prophesy." Marcus: "Open thy mouth, speak whatsoever occurs to thee, and thou shalt prophesy." She then, vainly puffed up and elated by these words, and greatly excited in soul by the expectation that it is herself who is to prophesy, her heart beating violently (from emotion), reaches the requisite pitch of audacity, and idly as well as impudently utters some nonsense as it happens to occur to her, such as might be expected from one healed by an empty spirit" (IRENAEUS AGAINST HERESIES).

The orthodox leaders of the early church recognized that such emotional outbursts of tongues speaking were not of God. It was a phenomena encouraged by the heretics.

3) The Cevenol priests who lived in France in the late 17th century also spoke in tongues. They were branded heretics because their prophecies went unfulfilled.

4) The Shakers originated in 1747 by a woman. Doctrinally she was all mixed up and held heretical views especially concerning the Person of Christ. "It is said that in order to mortify the flesh she instituted the practice of men and women dancing together naked while they spoke in tongues."

5) Examples of speaking in tongues are found within the Mormon church (cult): "Right from the beginning with Joseph Smith, Mormons have accepted tongues as a valid gift for modern times. When their temple was dedicated in Salt Lake City, hundreds of elders spoke in tongues."

6) The followers of Edward Irving (19th century) spoke in tongues. These people had revelations that contradicted Scripture, prophecies that went unfulfilled and promoted various erroneous teachings.

7) Today it is a known fact that people who do not even profess to be Christians speak in tongues:

Today shamans (witch doctors, priests, or medicine men) in Haiti, Greenland, Micronesia, and countries of Africa, Australia, Asia, and North and South America speak in tongues. Several groups use drugs to aid in inducing the ecstatic state and utterances. Voodoo practitioners speak in tongues. Buddhist and Shinto priests have been heard speaking in tongues. Moslems have spoken in tongues, and an ancient tradition even reports that Mohammed himself spoke in tongues.

8) Sad to say, there are many people today involved in the modern Charismatic movement who have spoken in tongues and yet they do not have any clear understanding of salvation or the gospel of grace or what it means to be born again. They have had an experience but they do not have eternal life (1 John 5:11-12).

APPENDIX ONE

THE TONGUE SPEAKING OF THE MONATISTS
Eusebius: The History of the Church, Penguin Classics version c.1965 pp.218-219
"After completing his explanation on these lines at the beginning of his book, He goes on to describe the originator of this heretical sect, as follows.
Their opposition and their recent schismatic heresy in relation to the Church originated thus. There is, it appears, a village near the Phrygian border of Mysia called Ardabau. There it is said that a recent convert named Montanus, while Gratus was proconsul of Syria, in his unbridled ambition to reach the top laid himself open to the adversary, was filled with spiritual excitement and suddenly fell into a kind of trance and unnatural ecstasy. He raved, and began to chatter and talk nonsense, prophesying in a way that conflicted with the practice of the Church handed down generation by generation from the beginning. Of those who listened at that time to his sham utterances some were annoyed, regarding him as possessed, a demonaic in the grip of the spirit of error, a disturber of the masses. The rebuked him and tried to stop his chatter, remembering the distinction drawn by the Lord, and His warning to guard vigilantly against the coming of false prophets. Others were elated as if by the Holy Spirit or a prophetic gift, were filled with conceit, and forgot the Lord's distinction. They welcomed a spirit that injured and deluded the mind and led the people astray: they were beguiled and deceived by it, so that it could not now be reduced to silence. By some art, or rather by methodical use of malign artifice, the devil contrived the ruin of the disobedient, and was most undeservedly honored by them. Then he secretly stirred up and inflamed minds closed to the true faith, raising up in this way two others--women who he filled up with this sham spirit, so that they chattered crazily, inopportunely, and wildly, ;like Montanus himself. On those who were elated and exultant about him the spirit bestowed favors, swelling their heads with his extravagant promises. Sometimes it reproved them pointedly and convincingly to their faces, to avoid appearing uncritical---though few of the Phrygians were deceived. They were taught by this arrogant spirit to denigrate the entire Catholic (universal) Church throughout the world, because the spirit of pseudo-prophecy received neither honor nor admission into it; for the Asian believers repeatedly and in many parts of Asia had met for this purpose, and after investigating the recent utterances pronounced them profane and rejected the heresy. Then at last its devotees were turned out of the Church and ex-communicated.
(Continuing on page 221)
When all their arguments have been disposed of and they have nothing to say, they try to take refuge in the martyrs, alleging that they have a great number and that this is convincing proof of the power of what in their circle is called the prophetic spirit. But this seems to be as false as false can be, for some of the other heretical sects have immense numbers of martyrs, but this is surely no reason why we should approve of them or acknowledge that they have the truth. To take one instance--those who as sectaries of Marcion are called Marcionites claim an immense number of Christian Martyrs, but they do not truly acknowledge Christ Himself. . . Hence whenever members of the Church called to martyrdom for the true faith meet any of the so-called martyrs of the Phrygian sect, they part company with them and have nothing to do with them till their own fulfillment, because they will not be associated with the spirit that spoke through Montanus and the women. That this is true, and that it occurred in our own time in Apamea on the Maeander, in the case of Gaius and Alexander and the other martyrs from Eumenia, is perfectly clear.

IRENAEUS, CONCERNING THE HERETIC MARCUS (2nd CENTURY)
Marcus to a woman,"Receive first from me and by me the gift of Charis. . . Woman,"I have never at any time prophesied, nor do I know how to prophesy"
Marcus,"Open thy mouth, speak whatever occurs to thee, and thou shalt prophesy."
She then, vainly puffed up and elated by these words, and greatly excited in soul by the expectation that it is herself who is to prophesy, her heart beating violently (from emotion), reaches the requisite pitch of audacity, and idly as well as impudently utters some nonsense as it happens to occur to her, such as might be expected from one heated by an empty spirit." (Irenaeus Against Heresies)


29 posted on 11/24/2005 7:15:34 AM PST by RaceBannon ((Prov 28:1 KJV) The wicked flee when no man pursueth: but the righteous are bold as a lion.)
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To: tutstar
..and they have been doing so well with the Katrina disaster relief.

Why not try this SBC--let God choose what He does with whom He chooses and how He chooses, as Sovereign of the Universe. This great denomination (of which I am part) should not get caught up in making major policy based on theological gray areas. They do not have sufficient Biblical grounds to do so.

Happy Thanksgiving to all............;-)

30 posted on 11/24/2005 7:16:08 AM PST by WalterSkinner
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To: whispering out loud

maybe i'm overlooking it, but i read nothing in scripture about a "personal prayer language"


31 posted on 11/24/2005 7:20:34 AM PST by stuckinloozeeana
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To: George W. Bush

I once thought an older widow woman(widda, to you southerners) who sat behind me was quietly speaking in tongues. Turns out, she was just echoing the prayers of whoever was leading the congregation in prayer, adding her own pleas and amens...

The original miracle allowed those assembled to hear the message in their *OWN* language.


32 posted on 11/24/2005 7:22:15 AM PST by chadwimc
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To: WalterSkinner

I guess 'most all denominations have some parts of the scripture that they would rather ignore. Man-made rules. Sad.


33 posted on 11/24/2005 7:23:28 AM PST by Past Your Eyes (Some people are too stupid to be ashamed.)
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To: tutstar
I remember there was a religious group that knew God so well that they kicked out anyone who believed that Jesus of Nazareth was the Christ. They thought anyone who believed that was 'disqualified' from their religion. I wonder if the SBC now thinks that those others who call themselves followers of Jesus and practice this which what they forbid are disqualified. I guess Peter and the others lost their accreditation to go to missions at Pentecost.
The gifts of the Holy Spirit have been greatly abused, which leads many churches to dismiss them outright. Of course the call to giving has been abused by many churches and church leaders as well, maybe more so than the abuse of the gifts. I don't see any churches though forbidding the practice of giving to the church.
34 posted on 11/24/2005 7:26:25 AM PST by feedback doctor (Liberalism is like a religion - islam)
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To: stuckinloozeeana

I was just eluding to the way the article chose to address the topic. though I do appreciate the term "personal prayer language" other wise known as speaking in tongues


35 posted on 11/24/2005 7:28:32 AM PST by whispering out loud (the bible is either 100% true, or in it's very nature it is 100% a lie)
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To: tutstar
Institutionalized unbelief...
Amazing....
36 posted on 11/24/2005 7:33:21 AM PST by Wings-n-Wind (The answers are out there; Wisdom is gained by asking the right questions)
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To: tutstar
"Speaking in tongues" is a scam.

I remember these staged events in my church. Everything was planned beforehand by the church elders. There was a script and everything.

People ate it up.

I don't know how these church leaders ever lived with themselves.

37 posted on 11/24/2005 7:33:34 AM PST by mc6809e
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To: stuckinloozeeana
maybe i'm overlooking it, but i read nothing in scripture about a "personal prayer language"

Well there is this:

1Cr 14:2 For he that speaketh in an [unknown] tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth [him]; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

I am no Biblical scholar or have ever spoke in tongues, but I fail to see why so many condemn the practice. There is Biblical support, although I think Pentacostals put way too much emphasis on it.

38 posted on 11/24/2005 7:39:20 AM PST by Always Right
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To: Past Your Eyes

They are throwing out the baby with the bathwater in order to prevent unscriptural doctrinal weaknesses from getting to the mission field. I think they had better draw the line in the sand elsewhere.


39 posted on 11/24/2005 7:39:48 AM PST by WalterSkinner
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To: BibChr
Straight Talk on Tongues

That's an excellent resource you're written. Very sound, hits its points well.

You might consider changing the colors. Cyan text on black isn't as readable as more common choices. I find cyan makes reading more difficult.
40 posted on 11/24/2005 7:40:10 AM PST by George W. Bush
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To: whispering out loud

You are right! Keep speaking the truth. This present darkness needs more of it.


41 posted on 11/24/2005 7:42:46 AM PST by RoadTest (I am come - - that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind.)
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To: whispering out loud

Those who go to another country to represent the SBC are taught the local language, so there is no reason to speak in tongues. Plus, we really know that one reason some speak in tongues is to "prove" they are Christian. That unless they can speak this way, they are not indwelled with the Holy Spirit (so they believe).

So, since the SBC believes that one can be saved and have the Holy Spirit without being able to speak in tongues, those who believe this would be teaching something not inline with SBC beliefs.


42 posted on 11/24/2005 7:43:09 AM PST by Ecliptic (Keep looking to the sky)
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To: tutstar

......a new policy that forbids missionary candidates from speaking in tongues......


How can they help it?


43 posted on 11/24/2005 7:44:07 AM PST by bert (K.E. ; N.P . Remember the Maine, Remember the Alamo..... Remember Murtha)
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To: George W. Bush
I am a Baptist and I also serve. If people started speaking in tongues in our services, I would terminate contact with that church if the deacons did not deal with it immediately and effectively.

That is very Christian of you...

44 posted on 11/24/2005 7:44:09 AM PST by Always Right
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To: Always Right

" I fail to see why so many condemn the practice. There is Biblical support ""

You are absolutely correct. Keep on being clear-eyed fair.


45 posted on 11/24/2005 7:44:47 AM PST by RoadTest (I am come - - that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind.)
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To: Always Right
thank you and kudos, I was looking for that.

my point in my statement is simply this, let each man worship God in the way that he would, to exclude someone from a church simple because he worships "worshiping the same God mind you" in a different way is absolutely ludicrous, John the Baptist was looked upon in their time as filthy, simply because he presented himself differently, but Christ said of him, "not a better man has ever walked the face of the earth."
46 posted on 11/24/2005 7:44:50 AM PST by whispering out loud (the bible is either 100% true, or in it's very nature it is 100% a lie)
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To: RaceBannon
Long time, no see, Race.

Or perhaps I should say "Glehezelpat hegzowskiyeh frocrimptahlaniyah!" so our charismatic contingent can understand.

And, yes, you can quote me on that.
47 posted on 11/24/2005 7:45:07 AM PST by George W. Bush
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To: Always Right
That is very Christian of you...

Good luck with bringing pagan and demonic practices into your church. Really. We Baptists will be here, ready to scoop up the refugees.
48 posted on 11/24/2005 7:46:44 AM PST by George W. Bush
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To: RaceBannon
All of what you say is true and there is more you didn't post - for example, the VERY SKETCHY (some say "unbiblical" but lets be gracious) doctrine of a "secret rapture" actually originated in an ecstatic utterance by Margaret McDonald, a Scottish milkmaid who was a follower of Edward Irving (whom you mentioned). Darby was very influenced by the Irvingites in the early stages of his split with the Church of England, and was just formulating his radical disjunction between Israel, the Church, and "Israel again" when he attended a "charismatic" meeting of Irvingites. Margaret was "slain in the spirit" and had a "revelation" that the coming of Christ was, in fact, going to be IN SECRET and He would whisk away the true believers and leave the heathen and the apostate church (those not receptive to the more miraculous gifts, according to the Irvingites) to horrible judgment. This was certainly a new doctrine, NEVER heard of before the 1860s. Of course, the reason no one ever heard of it is that it is not derived from a "normal" study of the biblical text at all, but depends on BRINGING a theology of Israel and a hermeneutic to the OT which is refuted by the NT itself as it interprets OT passages ("literal whereever possible"). Historical pre-millinealism (sometimes called "chiliasm") contains none of this "dispensational" crazy stuff so prominent in American Christianity today. Darby incorporated it, (sans tongues and miracles) into his theology, CI Scofield included it in an annotated bible, and the rest is history.

So, in the weird weird weird history of God's church, probably the most anti-charismatic element IN the church (the Plymouth Brethren and their dispensational children) owe one of the lynchpins of their theological system (the secret premillenial rapture of the church) to a charismatic milkmaid.

Finally, lest any of my dispensational brethren think I am taking up the sword against them and feel compelled to hurl invective and opprobrious curses back to me against my "theology from the pit of hell"(as I have heard it called), just know that there is crazy stuff in EVERY branch of Christendom. I know of more skeletons in my own (reformed) branch of the church than I do in yours. It is a good reminder that only King Jesus had his "theology" straight, and we should laugh at ourselves at least as much as we laugh at those who disagree with us. I don't pretend to have a corner on the truth, and in the VERY UNLIKELY event that there really is a "secret rapture" I will very happily accept an "I told you so" from all who feel the need to wag their dispensational charts at me on the way up.

Happy Thanksgiving to all.

49 posted on 11/24/2005 7:48:04 AM PST by chronic_loser (Handle provided free of charge as flame bait for the neurally vacant.)
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To: mc6809e

You do realize that you are in direct opposition to the writings of Paul, don't you?

"I would that you all spake with tongues."

"I thank my God, I speak in tongues more than you all."

It is amazing to see so much study and effort put forth by 'Christians' and others to debunk speaking in tongues, something that is dealt with and promoted to a great extent in the Bible.


50 posted on 11/24/2005 7:51:07 AM PST by Eagle Eye (There ought to be a law against excess legislation.)
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