Lawsuit over UC admissions becoming national fight

COPLEY NEWS SERVICE ^ | November 23, 2005 | Matt Krasnowski

[seastay]

This is a very important issue for California since the popularity of private Christian high schools are increasing, as many US citizens are opting out of public schools which in this part of the state, for example LA half or more of the children are illegal, don’t speak English, drop out of high school. No parent wants to send their child where they don’t teach education, compared to the Christian High schools that have a high rate of college bound students if they have the choice. Christian High Schools in California are much better than the public schools, as even admitted here by the UC s own lawyer;

“Christopher Patti, a UC lawyer, said that in the last four years, 32 students from Calvary Chapel have applied for UC schools, and 24 were admitted.”

That’s 75%, better than any public school. Perhaps the UC is just trying to reach some quota to limit Christian students, in favor of an affirmative action plan to boost other religions represented in the school?

“Nassirian said he sees the lawsuit's proponents as attempting to win an academic debate outside the academic world. “

This is a lawsuit attempting to win the fair admission of the Christian children. Because students who studied other religions as part of their high school course work such as Buddhism and Judaism were allowed to enroll, while they have rejected the Christian perspective. The lawsuit is based on an unfair advantage discriminated by religion.

Seems the university is hiding behind the creationism front as a week point to attack Christians whom don’t have a united stand on evolution. For example if they bluntly said young adults with a Christian background are not favored, that would look bad, but if they hide behind those who believe in creationism as junk science, as an affront to the true motive to weed out Christianity, then they are home free to spin an affirmative action issue as a science issue that doesn’t belong in the courts.

[CheyennePress]

"“Nassirian said he sees the lawsuit's proponents as attempting to win an academic debate outside the academic world."

What a pedantic, conceited, elitist twit.

Neither these students nor those who are representing them are suing to force the teaching of ID at any UC. Nor are they engaging in debate. They're simply asking that their courswork not be discrminated against based upon their viewpoint.

And if these high school students are getting UC credit for their work, they're still having to take the national standardized AP Biology test. And if not, they're probably required to take a biology course just how the UCs like them during their years there. That is, unless, the UCs have watered down their distribution requirements with gender identity courses.

[jennyp]

I don't know about the history & literature courses, perhaps they have a point there. But it certainly would be professional malfeasance if the university counted a creationist biology course towards admission. This is true whether the applicant learned their bogus biology in a Christian school, Jewish school, or Muslim school.

[Old_Mil]

But it certainly would be professional malfeasance if the university counted a creationist biology course towards admission.

...and this would only be because you happen to disagree with the conclusions of creation science. The laboratory facts for a biology course taught from a creationist perspective vs an evolutionary perspective are going to be the same. The difference is that the evolutionary course is going to teach unsubstantiated theories such as evolutionary endosymbosis as fact, while the creationist course will present them as theories.

[CheyennePress]

Really, how long do you think these people spend on evolution in their biology courses? It's probably two weeks at the VERY most.

It's not like they're taking a course entitled, "Creationist Biology."

[Nextrush]

Freedom of ideas is OK with me and these students who have been "indoctrinated on creationism" will do just fine at the university. Probably a lot better than some people I went to college with who didn't know much more than the "F" word and flunked out after a year or two. How did they get admitted in the first place?

[mlc9852]

Why not just attend a Christian college? I do believe there is a bias against Christianity in many public colleges so why give them your money?

[The Red Zone]

"Christianity's Influence on American History"

Sounds like yer social studies to me. UC are bigots.

[The Red Zone]

This is a lawsuit attempting to win the fair admission of the Christian children. Because students who studied other religions as part of their high school course work such as Buddhism and Judaism were allowed to enroll, while they have rejected the Christian perspective. The lawsuit is based on an unfair advantage discriminated by religion.

I guess UC thinks they learn all this in church so it don't count?

[Roots]

To make a correct correlation between the Christianity class and Jewish and Buddhist classes I'd have to ask - is "Christianity's Influence on American History" trying to be counted as an "American History" requirement? Are the Jewish and Buddhist courses counted as "American History" or "World History" requirements or are they categorized into "Religious studies" where other, more "proper" classes were taken to meet the history requirements?

IMHO, all 3 of these courses should not be counted or "substituted" unless a competency test is passed... if you know the basic material necessary, that's all that really matters.

[VOA]

How in the world can these kids get a proper education if they don't
get the UC-approved "Revisionist History According To Liberal
Union Members (Teachers)"?
(end sarcasm)

[PatrickHenry]

Evolution Ping The List-O-Links

A conservative, pro-evolution science list, now with over 320 names. See the list's explanation, then FReepmail to be added or dropped. To assist beginners: But it's "just a theory", Evo-Troll's Toolkit, and How to argue against a scientific theory.

[KateatRFM]

"The lawsuit argues it is unfair these courses were nixed while others titled "Western Civilization: The Jewish Experience," and "Intro to Buddhism," were approved. "

That's what the case turns on; and as stated above it depends on where the courses are placed. I went to a Bible college for 3 years and then transferred to Chapman College in Orange, California, a private university (now they call it Chapman University). All my courses in Old and New Testament, Major and Minor Prophets, etc. were transferrable. I had to take a bunch of 'requirements' in the final semester of my senior year, including Government which was taught by a Chinese man with an accent so thick that it was nearly impossible to understand him. We also had to take "Transformational Grammar" which I forgot the minute I got out of the class) which was a Chomsky invention I think. The geology class I took on board a cruise ship also counted. And neither of my schools required any math to graduate, which was a good thing because I'm dyslexic and could not get past the third grade in math until they invented calculators because it's arithmetic I couldn't do, not math.

All you have to do is pick the right school.

[muir_redwoods]

"UC lawyers say Calvary Chapel students are free to study as they choose, but they still must take courses approved by the university system – or alternately take an SAT subject test – to gain admission to one of the UC's 10 campuses."

Assuming that this rule is applied fairly and objectively, (a significant assumption, I recognize) it makes perfect sense to me. Even though arabs invented it, I would not accept a heavily dosed "islamic Algebra" course for credit.

If the Christian schools provide objectively equal or superior courses to secular schools and it can be demonstrated as such, then obviously the students are as well prepared. If courses like biology, history and social studies are heavily dosed with fundamental Christian teaching to the point where they are basically courses taught to instill Christian beliefs rather than the purported subject matter, then the students are not demonstrably prepared and an SAT subject test is in order.

[Thatcherite]

...and this would only be because you happen to disagree with the conclusions of creation science.

Actually it is their premises that I disagree with. Specifically the premise that the account of creation in Genesis I is true, and that anything that appears to contradict it must be an error, however strong the evidence against it seems.

[VadeRetro]

Glenn Branch, deputy director of the National Center for Science Education, which fights attempts to teach intelligent design and creationism as science in public schools, called the biology texts used by the school "unabashedly creationist" books that explain evolution in a confusing manner.

This does not shock. Creationists only know strawman parodies of evolution. Time and again I'm left asking, "If you don't know what evolution even is, how do you know it's wrong?" There is no way these particular course credits should pass for real biology anywhere.

[furball4paws]

The blurb mentions "other courses" were also rejected. Anybody know what they are?

[Texas_Jarhead]

There was more discussion of the courses in a previous article that was posted here but I can't recall the specifics at this time.

[phantomworker]

Assuming that this rule is applied fairly and objectively, (a significant assumption, I recognize) it makes perfect sense to me.

I agree. The UC system should be able to set its own standards for admissions. Admission standards, afterall, are there to help the student and indicate whether the student will succeed in that particular university. If the university thinks a particular biology class will not prepare the student for academic success, then it is the university's call.

Having graduated from the UC system, I know they are libertarian in the sense that everyone is welcome there, no matter what race or religion. The bottom line for Universities is that they need to keep up their scholastic ratings. And they also play the $$$ game. One metric a university uses is the number of students who graduate and find employment in their field. If the university does not think a student will succeed, it could hurt their ratings and the student will not be admitted.

To turn this issue of admission standards for a biology class into a religious issue is like playing the race card every time a racial issue comes up, imo.

[furball4paws]

If these students have appropriate SAT scores, or whatever test the UC system uses, then they should be admitted, with the proviso that they take remedial courses in the areas in which they are deficient. The university has this right - to make sure students are ready for university courses.

I doubt that these students are interested in careers in the sciences. If they are they have a lot of ground to make up and likely won't be successful. But why can't they be successful History, Education or Arts majors?