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A Clue to Solving Illegal Immigration Problem.
November 30, 2005 | Bob Haran

Posted on 11/30/2005 1:22:19 AM PST by Bob Haran

Let's face it, our elected officials don't have a clue about how to reduce illegal immigration. After President Bush proposed a guest worker program in January 2004, he repeatedly has said, illegal border crossing must stop. He now says he is looking for an overall strategy to curb illegal immigration.

Congress can't agree on what to do about illegal immigration. McCain, Kolbe, Flake and Ted Kennedy, want a guest worker program and also want to allow some undocumented immigrants to become legal residents, but they insist that is not an amnesty. Senator Jon Kyl wants illegal immigrants to go home, voluntarily, before taking part in any guest worker program.

None of those proposals will stop anyone from crossings our borders illegally or cause any of the estimated 11 to 15 million undocumented aliens in this country to return to their own countries.

A workable strategy to curb illegal immigration is simple, no new laws are necessary, no guest worker programs, no amnesties.

People are crossing our border illegally to find jobs. It is illegal to hire undocumented immigrants, therefore, the strategy is, start doing something that the government hasn't been doing, start enforcing the law against the hiring of undocumented immigrants. If there are fewer jobs for illegal immigrants, then the number of people entering the United States illegally will drop dramatically.

Maybe the real problem is that these politicians don't feel that national security and American jobs are as important as cheap labor, that's what it's really all about anyway.

Bob Haran,

Phoenix, AZ

www.Bob-Haran.info


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; US: Arizona; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: american; bob; bobharan; border; bush; flake; guest; haran; illegal; illegalimmigration; immigrantlist; immigration; jobs; jon; jonkyl; kennedy; kolbe; kyl; labor; mccain; national; nationalsecurity; notbreakingnews; president; security; selfpromotion; ted; undocumented; worker
Let's face it, our elected officials don't have a clue about how to reduce illegal immigration. After President Bush proposed a guest worker program in January 2004, he repeatedly has said, illegal border crossing must stop. He now says he is looking for an overall strategy to curb illegal immigration.

Congress can't agree on what to do about illegal immigration. McCain, Kolbe, Flake and Ted Kennedy, want a guest worker program and also want to allow some undocumented immigrants to become legal residents, but they insist that is not an amnesty. Senator Jon Kyl wants illegal immigrants to go home, voluntarily, before taking part in any guest worker program.

None of those proposals will stop anyone from crossings our borders illegally or cause any of the estimated 11 to 15 million undocumented aliens in this country to return to their own countries.

A workable strategy to curb illegal immigration is simple, no new laws are necessary, no guest worker programs, no amnesties.

People are crossing our border illegally to find jobs. It is illegal to hire undocumented immigrants, therefore, the strategy is, start doing something that the government hasn't been doing, start enforcing the law against the hiring of undocumented immigrants. If there are fewer jobs for illegal immigrants, then the number of people entering the United States illegally will drop dramatically.

Maybe the real problem is that these politicians don't feel that national security and American jobs are as important as cheap labor, that's what it's really all about anyway.

Bob Haran,

Phoenix, AZ

www.Bob-Haran.info

1 posted on 11/30/2005 1:22:22 AM PST by Bob Haran
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To: Bob Haran

It should be made a felony for Criminals who overstay their legal visas and Invaders.

I believe we should give amnesty to these poor CRIMINALS or INVADERS.
This should be a 2 week amnesty to get the heck out of our Country.
The ones who ignore this amnesty should be buried in a tent city jail and fined $10,000 or buried elsewhere.
All aiders and abettors of these CRIMINALS or INVADERS should get 1 year in a tent city jail and a $10,000 fine for each CRIMINAL aided.
Those in government of Cities should be the first ones charged.


2 posted on 11/30/2005 1:31:13 AM PST by HuntsvilleTxVeteran (Rush agrees with me 98.5% of the time!)
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To: Bob Haran

Enforcing current laws is a start but the more insidious problem is that no one in our government wants to stop immigration, illegal or otherwise. The Council on Foreign Relations would love to dissolve the US borders and its sovereignty. (Reference this prior Free Republic posting: http://www.eagleforum.org/column/2005/july05/05-07-13.html)

More and more, George Orwell's spectre of life to come in "1984" is coming to pass.


3 posted on 11/30/2005 1:32:11 AM PST by kpbruinfan ("Try as they might, they cannot steal your dreams." - Neil Peart)
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To: Bob Haran

Enforcing current laws is a start but the more insidious problem is that no one in our government wants to stop immigration, illegal or otherwise. The Council on Foreign Relations would love to dissolve the US borders and our sovereignty. People need to get involved and squeeze out officials like Teddy K. and take responsibility for their government. With the Internet and other resources, ignorance is no longer an excuse. More and more, George Orwell's spectre of life to come in "1984" is coming to pass. Beware of the Communists/Socialists!!!


4 posted on 11/30/2005 1:34:40 AM PST by kpbruinfan ("Try as they might, they cannot steal your dreams." - Neil Peart)
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To: Bob Haran

Who the hell is Bob Haran ?


5 posted on 11/30/2005 1:47:30 AM PST by ATOMIC_PUNK (secus acutulus exspiro ab Acheron bipes actio absol ab Acheron supplico)
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To: Bob Haran
Wouldn't hurt to change the Constitution regarding educating illegals (California maybe 5 billion a year lost on just that) and giving illegals an American birth certificates for their anchor children. (Just bull)

In addition, go to places where people report illegals and remove them.
It's no secret, to start with, go to the front of all Home Depots.
6 posted on 11/30/2005 1:53:52 AM PST by A CA Guy (God Bless America, God bless and keep safe our fighting men and women.)
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To: kpbruinfan

We need 2 million illegal aliens to do agriculture jobs but for the rest your idea will fly. Cut them off from their cash flow, from their employers, from their jobs, and they'll self deport back to the pits they came from. Not all but most will cut and run. The rest are the welfare leeches and working underground. They will be more difficult to deal with


7 posted on 11/30/2005 2:00:43 AM PST by dennisw (You shouldn't let other people get your kicks for you - Bob Dylan)
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To: Bob Haran

If you can't get them to go home than a least make them speak english. The President needs revoke Cliton's executive order # 13166.


8 posted on 11/30/2005 2:05:39 AM PST by one more state
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To: Bob Haran
People are crossing our border illegally to find jobs.

Sort of. Illegals come here because they know there's more opportunity to get money. Some come to work for it, some come to steal it. But NONE of them care about the laws pertaining to legally earning it.

While I think we should get tough on employers criminally and civilly. Without a serious barrier/wall/fence/National Guard presence, they will keep coming by the millions.

9 posted on 11/30/2005 2:10:02 AM PST by moehoward
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To: moehoward

Here in Singapore. The min. for being in the country illegally is 3 hits from the cane and 3 months jail.


10 posted on 11/30/2005 2:48:43 AM PST by Liberfighter (A half truth is a whole lie)
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To: HuntsvilleTxVeteran; Bob Haran

<< It should be made a felony for Criminals who overstay their legal visas and Invaders.

I believe we should give amnesty to these poor [CRIMINAL-ALIEN] INVADERS.


This should be a 2 week amnesty to get the heck out of our Country.

The ones who ignore this amnesty should be buried in a tent city jail and fined $10,000 or buried elsewhere.
All aiders and abettors of these CRIMINALS or INVADERS should get 1 year in a tent city jail and a $10,000 fine for each CRIMINAL aided.

Those in government of Cities should be the first ones charged. >>

Well said.


11 posted on 11/30/2005 3:34:20 AM PST by Brian Allen (Patriotic, Immigrant & therefore a 'Hyphenated,' AMERICAN-American by choice. An Aviator by Grace.)
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To: HuntsvilleTxVeteran

It should be made a felony for Criminals who overstay their legal visas and Invaders


----I agree. Something NEEDS to be done and fast!

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1525711/posts


12 posted on 11/30/2005 4:00:53 AM PST by WasDougsLamb (I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed man.)
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To: Bob Haran

I think a combination of solutions could be used.

The main issue is that "illegals" are non-compliant with the law. I like the suggestion:

1. Census of illegals be made.

2. Only LEGAL citizens of U.S.A. should receive social secuirty, medical, & educational benefits.

Perhaps, we could utilize the policy used during WWI: all aliens that volunteered for active military service bacame automatic U.S. citizens upon honorable discharge. Their service established that these individuals had alligence to our nation, not looking for just a "hand out. "


13 posted on 11/30/2005 4:23:39 AM PST by UMCRevMom@aol.com
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To: moehoward
While I think we should get tough on employers criminally and civilly. Without a serious barrier/wall/fence/National Guard presence, they will keep coming by the millions.

When Bush said he was going to use technology to police the border he was saying, "I am not going to put up a fence," AND "It will be business as usual."
14 posted on 11/30/2005 4:26:20 AM PST by GarySpFc (De Oppresso Liber)
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To: Bob Haran

There is a LOT MORE to it than just needing farm and labor workers. If that were the only reason, then it would be simply a matter of applying some kind of application for a guest-worker permity in order to cross the border.

But the real problem is that congress on both sides can't afford to anger the Hispanic population. I heard Neal Boortz saying yesterday that Bush won the election by such a small margin in Florida .... the numbers show that if just one more person in each Florida precint had voted Democrat, then Al Gore would be President today. In other words if just a few Hispanics had been angry at the Republicans, then we would have lost the election.

Politicians just can't bring themselves to do the right thing and inforce the present immigration laws when it will mean they loose votes in doing so.

Maybe the only way "OUT" is to have a group of legilators who do not plan to run again anyway, the same number from both parties, present the tough reform legilation. Then the entire congress vote 100% unanimously to pass it. Then the Hispanics will not know who to be mad at. Equal anger at both parties will cancell out the consequences of that anger. But would congress have the guts or the brains to do something like this, even if it meant saving our country? Probably not!


15 posted on 11/30/2005 4:34:32 AM PST by Apple Pan Dowdy (... as American as Apple Pie)
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To: Bob Haran
Illegal immigration solution:
1. Enforce the current laws
2. Enforce the current laws
3. Secure the borders with a fence/wall
4. Deport all who do not abide by 1-2
5. bring treason charges against all government officials who refuse to uphold their oath to the Constitution or who refuse to do 1,2.
16 posted on 11/30/2005 4:36:31 AM PST by ConsentofGoverned (if a sucker is born every minute, what are the voters?)
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To: Bob Haran

The first thing that should be done is to pass a 25% tax on every transfer of money sent to a foreign country, with the proceeds going to the STATE in which the money wire took place. That is to reimburse the states who are going broke paying for the education, medication, and incarceration of illegals and their families. This would be easy to do if our politicians had guts and not just mouths.


17 posted on 11/30/2005 4:42:42 AM PST by kittymyrib
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To: ATOMIC_PUNK

http://www.hofsport.com/__121b_340KAICiCr+PVvSkjqcX99cqMAP5QPZNKdioIHfmBgQjpxZFNK2H3w==


18 posted on 11/30/2005 4:53:29 AM PST by nuconvert (No More Axis of Evil by Christmas ! TLR) [there's a lot of bad people in the pistachio business])
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To: kpbruinfan
Enforcing current laws is a start but the more insidious problem is that no one in our government wants to stop immigration (My emphasis)

Not true. Our government (of the people, by the people and for the people) doesn't exist because it has been bought and paid for by those who benefit financially from the millions strong illegal work force. In addition to that, the politicians retain their power if the economy is healthy, therefore do you think there is anyone in this administration or Congress who is willing to pull 11 - 15 million consumers from our economic activity?

The flooding of our nation with illegals will not stop until we take control of the government back from the clutches of the two major parties!

19 posted on 11/30/2005 4:57:27 AM PST by varon (Allegiance to the constitution, always. Allegiance to a political party, never.)
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To: Bob Haran
Maybe the real problem is that these politicians don't feel that national security and American jobs are as important as cheap labor, that's what it's really all about anyway.

That IS the issue, and it IS what it is really all about anyway. You nailed it. .

Is it a bad policy? Sure it is. Is it a threat? Absolutely (qualfied below). Should the illegal flow be staunched? Unquestionably. But there is a political cost, and more importantly, an economic cost, and these guys are faced with the following:
1) Do the right thing and stand up to organized labor with a big "STFU" and relax our immigration quotas
2) Clamp down the borders and face the labor shortages
3) Allow the labor to come in but pretend like they don't

They have chosen number three, which is an awful choice. The fact that those concerned about this choice have a large number of hysterical moonbats who think choice number 2 is a really keen idea does not help those arguing for responsible border policy. The politicians (actually, all of them) correctly see that the flood of illegals crossing our southern border are not nearly as much of a threat to our security as the "Cindy Sheehans of the right" bawl about. We have a large group of ideologues who are advocates of a cause and looking for reasons who appear silly in screeching about MeCHA and LaRaza and the huge security risks...., with a gratuitous mention of 9/11.

The fact is that we face a FAR greater security risk on our northern border, with tens of thousands of radical sheetheads who are jihadis living in Canada, and no one says crap about them. Plus, we have DOCUMENTED CASES of Haji and clan sneaking across THAT border to do us harm. Bawling out about the "security threat" on our southern border is like fighting WWII by invading Buenos Aires Argentina as the lynchpin of our European operations. Silly, and misplaced priorities. Focus first on the real threats, and we can worry about the "might maybe could be" threats later. Don't make up sh*t to support the case for a controlled Mexican border. You actually have a strong enough case in the simple argument for a sovereign self determining nation.

The argument to "protect American jobs" is, I believe, also one that is silly, shortsighted, and anti free markets. Plus, it simply doesn't square with the economic data. We have over 10 and maybe as many as 20 million illegal immigrants here,AND OUR UNEMPLOYMENT RATE IS UNDER 6 PER CENT. I will admit that I hear anecdotal stories of Americans being displaced or unable to get work in their field or suffering loss of their companies, and I admit that living in NC where the economy is booming may shade the perspective. But NC is also the fastest growing state for Latinos, and everyone knows the illegals are overwhelmingly hispanic. I talked to a guy yesterday whose wife, sister, sister in law, and cousin were just rounded up in an ICE sweep. They are here, but I don't see these hordes of citizens being displaced at all. What I DO see is a more aggressive labor pool and a group of people who started with nothing now buying homes, cars, running businesses, starting churches and (some of them) sending their kids to private schools. And please don't bother with the same old lying crap about the reason they can afford it is that they work under the table and don't pay taxes. Most of them work in service jobs, have payroll taxes witheld, and even if they claim 9 exemptions (the limit you can claim without having the fed ask "why?" and having to respond), they still have the moneys witheld, and they get none of it back (they are afraid to file, an the IRS likes it that way!)

We DO need to get control of our borders and we DO need to document the people here. Arguing that on the basis of false security premises and false job premises does not impress any politicians. They lie as well as anyone and know a lie when they see it.

20 posted on 11/30/2005 5:15:12 AM PST by chronic_loser (Handle provided free of charge as flame bait for the neurally vacant.)
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To: Bob Haran
If there are fewer jobs for illegal immigrants, then the number of people entering the United States illegally will drop dramatically.

100% Correct

Semper Fi from a former Marine from Golf 2/1.

21 posted on 11/30/2005 5:46:33 AM PST by Marine Inspector (Government is not the solution to our problem; Government is the problem)
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To: GarySpFc
When Bush said he was going to use technology to police the border he was saying, "I am not going to put up a fence," AND "It will be business as usual."

Bingo!

22 posted on 11/30/2005 5:47:47 AM PST by Marine Inspector (Government is not the solution to our problem; Government is the problem)
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To: kpbruinfan
"The Council on Foreign Relations would love to dissolve the US borders and our sovereignty."

BINGO! The stated policy Bush has put out there is completely irrational until you think about the unstated part of that policy.

23 posted on 11/30/2005 5:51:28 AM PST by Lloyd227 (and may God bless Oriana Fallaci)
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To: Marine Inspector

All illegals should be held pending until completion of hearing. Spartan tent city surroundings will help ensure speedy disposition of trials.


24 posted on 11/30/2005 5:52:35 AM PST by stocksthatgoup (Polls = Proof that when the MSM want your opinion it will give it to you.)
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To: chronic_loser
we have DOCUMENTED CASES of Haji and clan sneaking across THAT border to do us harm.

It's the same on the southern border.

The big difference between the two is that the Canadian police and military are not assisting illegals from entering the US.

25 posted on 11/30/2005 5:57:34 AM PST by Marine Inspector (Government is not the solution to our problem; Government is the problem)
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To: stocksthatgoup
All illegals should be held pending until completion of hearing. Spartan tent city surroundings will help ensure speedy disposition of trials.

Agreed.

26 posted on 11/30/2005 7:51:17 AM PST by Marine Inspector (Government is not the solution to our problem; Government is the problem)
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To: Liberfighter

Reminds me of the young American man that got the cane for tagging cars over there a few years back. Wonder if he ever did it again. I'm guessing not.


27 posted on 11/30/2005 8:26:14 AM PST by moehoward
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To: GarySpFc
"... "I am not going to put up a fence," AND "It will be business as usual."

WE AGREE!

This is JMO. I believe our Presidents recent focus on the issue is intended to cool the momentum behind real illegal immigration reform. Keeping us all arguing over the subtleties of his guest worker program -and others like it- prevents forward movement on the few things we all agree on. A serious barrier of some kind and interior enforcement.

28 posted on 11/30/2005 8:55:12 AM PST by moehoward
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To: Marine Inspector
It's the same on the southern border.

Not really. We have no documented case of terrorists sneaking across the southern border. The real "security" problem that I am concerned about is the ability of Paco to commit murder, rape, or some other serious criminal offense and establish an entirely new identity north of the border.

There is no threat of islamic terrorists sneaking across the southern border. I can pull up a study by some Air Force study on Carribean and Latin American Islamic threats that I posted (or you can go search for the link on my in forums page), where they concluded that there is no realistic threat of islamic terrorism from Latin America. Study dated 2003.

29 posted on 11/30/2005 9:18:53 AM PST by chronic_loser (Handle provided free of charge as flame bait for the neurally vacant.)
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To: 1_Inch_Group; 2sheep; 2Trievers; 3AngelaD; 4Freedom; 4ourprogeny; 7.62 x 51mm; A CA Guy; ...

ping


30 posted on 11/30/2005 9:20:30 AM PST by gubamyster
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To: gubamyster

Protect our borders and coastlines from all foreign invaders!

Support our Minutemen Patriots!

Be Ever Vigilant ~ Bump!


31 posted on 11/30/2005 9:51:32 AM PST by blackie (Be Well~Be Armed~Be Safe~Molon Labe!)
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To: kpbruinfan

The CFR calls illegals....'trusted travelers'. Is the hair standing up on the back of your neck yet? Mine is.


32 posted on 11/30/2005 9:53:17 AM PST by hershey
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To: Apple Pan Dowdy
RE: "But the real problem is that congress on both sides can't afford to anger the Hispanic population."

I understand that to mean voters and voters = citizens. I would restate it. IMO it equates Americans of Hispanic descent with ILLEGAL immigration.

I would say, "But the real problem is that the Bush Administration and pro-"guest workers" members of congress in both Parties equate law-breaking with Americans of Hispanic origin."

Keeping a lid on how Americans of Hispanic origin feel about ILLEGAL immigration is a priority of the Bush Administration, et al. IMO. They are Americans first and no more likely to be loyal to other countries than any other American.

33 posted on 11/30/2005 10:20:50 AM PST by WilliamofCarmichael (Move over Henny Youngman.. please! "The most trusted news source." CNN)
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To: chronic_loser
RE: reply #20

Pretty tough remarks and not totally off the mark IMO.

I am as exasperated as any of the "Cindy Sheehans of the right" -- beyond endurance almost.

I am tired of the B.S. But not from the "anti-immigrant" crowd -- as some call us. (We're anti-ILLEGAL immigrant as I am sure you know.)

I was sold a piece of junk in 1986 (immigration reform), the warranty was not honored -- indeed, there were efforts to prevent getting repairs from any source! (Though we did get a little done with Prop 200 .)

Now after twenty years of making payments we learn that there's a balloon payment due, i.e., "guest workers" who will happily go home after six years max. B.S.

We're told we have to have a "guest worker" plan to enable us to identify the "undocumented workers." MORE B.S.! We know who most of them are and we know who employs them. Ask the SSA and the IRS.

We need the workers. OK. What we don't need are lying SOBs in government and business!! So screw them all! Let them stop lying and just maybe they will get more support.

34 posted on 11/30/2005 10:56:37 AM PST by WilliamofCarmichael (Move over Henny Youngman.. please! "The most trusted news source." CNN)
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To: dennisw

We NEED illegal aliens??

Sigh....


35 posted on 11/30/2005 12:56:29 PM PST by Politicalmom (Must I use a sarcasm tag?)
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To: nuconvert

Well thats awsome thanks for the info sounds like a straightforward guy makes me happy there is still some around .

http://www.hofsport.com/__121b_340KAICiCr+PVvSkjqcX99cqMAP5QPZNKdioIHfmBgQjpxZFNK2H3w==


36 posted on 11/30/2005 1:44:51 PM PST by ATOMIC_PUNK (secus acutulus exspiro ab Acheron bipes actio absol ab Acheron supplico)
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To: WilliamofCarmichael
Thanks for your reply

All my views on immigration are prejudiced (best to get it out on the table) by the following
1) I am a guy who looks to reform this problem FIRST with market based ideas, and only secondarily with law enforcement (just my libertarian slant)
2) If I lived in CA, I would probably be lots more anti immigrant ---I think most of us are anti illegal immigrant, it is just a difference on how we fix the situation. I basically take the approach of "who in here would make a good citizen IF they had lined up on a more liberal immigration quota?" and looking for ways to integrate them legally into society. Most Freepers in the immigration threads have a view that we should FIRST enforce the present laws, INCLUDING expelling illegals already here. Many good people disagree on this, but I think I am one of the few vocal freepers to break ranks on this issue.
We REALLY need to get control of our borders, and then we need to take prop 200 nationwide. We unnecessarily piss off tax paying citizens by opening up fed givaway programs to illegals. I don't get that bent out of shape about it b/c my objection is with the programs themselves more than who is getting a place at the fed hog trough. If American citizens can't resist lining up for "benefits," I am not sure why we would expect illegals to resist. "If you build it, they will come" applies to subsidies as much as any other thing.

3) I genuinely like latinos. I am not hispanic, nor do I have a vested interest in them being here. I just like alot of things about the culture and have had very good relationships with them. My perspective on them being here as immigrants (legal and illegal) is admittedly colored by that.

Our borders are an absolute mess, and we are in danger of developing a fortress mentality with a hostility to immigrants themselves if we are not careful. I think this would be a tragedy primarily for US, and only secondarily to the prospective immigrants.

37 posted on 11/30/2005 2:41:15 PM PST by chronic_loser (Handle provided free of charge as flame bait for the neurally vacant.)
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To: chronic_loser
RE: "I am not sure why we would expect illegals to resist [lining up for benefits]."

Take a look at the events leading up to the 1996 welfare and immigration reforms. Elderly relatives of legal immigrants were swamping the 0ver-65 SSI. Those were all legal immigrants yet even liberal Democrats helped put an end to the rapidly growing swarms. (Ended SSI only BTW, all other benefits are still handed out -- subsequent changes to the 1996 reforms enabled those on SSI before Aug., 1996 to still get SSI.)

So, "If American citizens can't resist lining up. . . ." why should legal / ILLEGAL immigrants resist? Surely you see the difference between paying all your life and not paying a penny, not even speaking the language?

But essentially you are right. I know for a fact that some of the legal / ILLEGAL immigrants that I know and know of say, "If they're dumb enough to give it to me, I'll take it -- and all I can get away with."

If you read enough threads I honestly believe that you'll see that few blame the ILLEGAL immigrants. Most as I do blame the conditions in their home country (like Mexicorruption) and our own government / business personnel.

I am against "guest worker" but I would be willing to give a form of legal status like PRUCOL for ILLEGALs (excluding criminals) to get "right" or leave. Couple that with strict enforcement of our immigration laws and let the world know we mean it.

Why give the ILLEGALs a break? IMO they were invited here by our own government's wink-wink, nudge-nudge attitude.

38 posted on 11/30/2005 3:39:01 PM PST by WilliamofCarmichael (Move over Henny Youngman.. please! "The most trusted news source." CNN)
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To: chronic_loser
We have no documented case of terrorists sneaking across the southern border.

Trust me, we do.

39 posted on 11/30/2005 4:17:12 PM PST by Marine Inspector (Government is not the solution to our problem; Government is the problem)
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To: Marine Inspector
"Law, without force, is impotent". -Pascal

"It is the function of police to exercise force, or to threaten it, in execution of the state's purpose, internal and under normal conditions. It is the function of armed forces to exercise force, or the threat of it, externally in normal times and internally only in times that are abnormal...The degree of force which the state is prepared to apply in the execution of its purpose...is as much as the government of the day considers it necessary or expedient to use to avoid a breakdown in its function and a surrender of its responsibilities". - General Sir John Hackett

40 posted on 11/30/2005 4:25:40 PM PST by EternalVigilance
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To: Marine Inspector
We have no documented case of terrorists sneaking across the southern border.

Trust me, we do.

Links? World Nut Daily doesn't count I have read their stuff, and it is "proof" along the lines of John Stormer and Gary Allen in "None Dare Call it Conspiracy." I don't mean innuendo, vague hints, and baseless accusations with a few "this might be happening if this happens." I mean documented cases, open for inspection.

41 posted on 11/30/2005 7:13:09 PM PST by chronic_loser (Handle provided free of charge as flame bait for the neurally vacant.)
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To: WilliamofCarmichael
I am against "guest worker" but I would be willing to give a form of legal status like PRUCOL for ILLEGALs (excluding criminals) to get "right" or leave. Couple that with strict enforcement of our immigration laws and let the world know we mean it.

Our views are closer than you might think. Definitely closer than I thought. I am not sure I would "not blame the illegals." It is not as though they were unaware of the laws when they jumped the border. I just believe (as you seem to) the ONLY solution and/or punishment for them being here illegally is not to deport them. Hell, posession of less than an oz of marijuana is a fine in CA. Many violations of the law are settled by fines. Why not take the "good" ones ----easily proveable..., are you a disease vector, can you prove continual employment, have you been convicted of a felony or anything more serious than xxxxx, do you understand that issuance of a visa is yearly and contingent on filing annual tax returns, and do you understand that you have NO rights to any state/federal income transferrance or subsidy programs?--- and let them pay a 10 thousand dollar fine for being here illegally in the first place (they did jump line, after all) and stay. Makes a lot more sense than a guest worker program, and it does not amount to "amnesty." You pay your debt to society and we are all better off. It won't fly on Free Republic, but I believe it would across the nation.

42 posted on 11/30/2005 7:30:35 PM PST by chronic_loser (Handle provided free of charge as flame bait for the neurally vacant.)
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To: chronic_loser
I mean documented cases, open for inspection.

Do you actually believe the Government would release this information to the public? Do you understand the ramifications?

Now I know what you’re thinking. You're thinking I'm full of it. Not unexpected.

Just do some basic math and read between the lines in the news around the net.

We, and by that I mean CBP and I, as I work for CBP along the US/Mexico border, apprehend close to a million illegal aliens each year. Before 9/11, that number was 1.5 million each year. If we are lucky, we catch half of those attempting to cross. In reality it’s closer to 20% or less although that number is slowly increasing.

Basic common sense does not allow anyone to believe poor uneducated dirt farmers can easily sneak into the country but not a trained terrorist. In the years since 9/11, between 2 and 3 million, if not more, people have gotten into the US undetected from Mexico.

Now, out of the 2 to 3 million apprehensions we have made along the US/Mexico border, is there a documented case, open for inspection for each of those individuals? Why do you think that is? Is it because the press does not care or is it because we, as in CBP/Fed Govt, don’t report everything we do to the press?

Now lets move away from the illegal movement between our legal ports of entries and talk about those points of entry.

Again, the CBP Officers at the dozens of Ports of Entry along the US/Mexican apprehend tens of thousands of people attempting to enter the US with counterfeit documents. Are there documented cases, open for inspection, for each of those individuals? Why?

World Nut Daily doesn't count

Don’t count out any source. There is an element of truth in all the stories, it just a matter of finding out what that element is the truth and what may be embellished. WND has some very good and highly reliable sources.

Now you can go on believing that terrorists have never crossed our southern border and no terrorist or persons with terrorists ties has been apprehended, but you would be fooling yourself and deep down you know it’s possible.

Let me ask you a question. Do you know who Sibel Edmonds is? If you don’t you might want to read up on her. If you do; do you think she’s telling the truth or lying? If she is lying, why is the Federal Government doing everything it can to keep her quite?

As for me, I live in a border state and make a living stopping the bad guys from coming in, but you’re probably right, I don’t know anything and this is just all BS.

43 posted on 11/30/2005 8:32:02 PM PST by Marine Inspector (Government is not the solution to our problem; Government is the problem)
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To: Marine Inspector
Let me ask you a question. Do you know who Sibel Edmonds is?

Wbew boy! Thought you might be rational before that one!

I would love to interact with you, but I have real important work to do, investigating the perpetual energy machines "they" bought up the patents on, and the alien spaceship "they" have out on some afb in Nevada, and the Bilderbergers and the CFR and the Trilateralists and the Bavarian Illumanati and the black helicopters and all that. It is really simple to get the connections. The average man in the street just doesn't get it because "they" don't want him to see it. Sibel Edmonds is a heroic lone voice who bravely demonstrates that GEORGE BUSH is the instigator of the 9/11 "crashes." Yep, the US Gov't (the CIA, probably) did it. And you want to know the wildest thing? It is ALL right there in Revelationisms in the Bible. Yep. I saw it in a special about Notre Damus. He wrote that if you add up the numbers of all the letters of the first chapter you get a total of 1546!!!! That was the address of the PO Box of that secret Fraternity Bush was in at Yale, and it is the EXACT HEADING of the plane that crashed into the towers!!!! Coincidence? Hah! WE know better! It is all there if they could open their eyes and see it. But they won't. It is all those chemicals they put in our drinking water, I think. I quit drinking anything but strained double purified water helioptically somniferied water some time ago. I have been able to think much clearer on these things since, and I can see it all. (Plus, for some reason those radio transmissions THEY beamed in through my tooth fillings just stopped! Amazing, ain't it?)

Hey, though, I am serious. You could get in BIG trouble over this. PLEASE don't post anything else about the government being behind 9/11. THEY are always listening, you know. THEY watch these boards, and you may have already compromised yourself simply by stating that YOU KNOW!!!! You might need to go DEEP UNDERGROUND from these boards now that THEY know about you. But then, who would catch the bad guys for us at the border????? Oh, the choices one must make sometimes!

44 posted on 11/30/2005 9:31:46 PM PST by chronic_loser (Handle provided free of charge as flame bait for the neurally vacant.)
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To: chronic_loser
I'll be the first to admit that my view (about PRUCOL) is a bit idealistic.

The facts are IMO business wants an endless supply of "cheap," taxpayer subsidized labor. (Don't ya just hate government interference in business?)

Source countries want the remittances.

Unions want the new members. Ditto neighborhood Catholic churches. Ditto the "immigrant" rights industry.

Internationalists want to redistribute wealth (goes along with "free trade;" i.e., free tradin' technology, wealth, and jobs to developing countries).

Smugglers want the business but may be willing to become legal temporary employment agencies under a "guest worker" program.

Politicians want donations.

The alternative to ILLEGAL / "undocumented" workers is sending jobs chasing "cheap" labor offshore; but millions of jobs cannot be sent offshore. Thus ILLEGAL / "guest" workers will always be with us. You can call it either. It's the same.

It's a done deal. The Fat Elvis has sung and left the building.

45 posted on 11/30/2005 9:40:31 PM PST by WilliamofCarmichael (Move over Henny Youngman.. please! "The most trusted news source." CNN)
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To: chronic_loser

Well, it' apparent you know nothing about what Sibel is doing.

She's not trying to say the Government is behind 9/11, she's trying to expose information that the Government is keeping information from the public.

And believe me, it is.

If you don't believe Sibel, then you can't believe Abel Danger.

Have a great life and keep right on believing the MSM.


46 posted on 12/01/2005 8:11:03 AM PST by Marine Inspector (Government is not the solution to our problem; Government is the problem)
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To: Marine Inspector

Well, it' apparent you know nothing about what Sibel is doing.

She's not trying to say the Government is behind 9/11, she's trying to expose information that the Government is keeping information from the public.

And believe me, it is.

If you don't believe Sibel, then you can't believe Abel Danger.


AMEN!


47 posted on 12/01/2005 9:26:42 AM PST by WatchingInAmazement ("Nothing is more expensive than cheap labor," prof. Vernon Briggs, labor economist Cornell Un.)
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To: chronic_loser
Deporting would cost US money, they simply walk back, nothing to loose. Do a background check and legalize the good ones. Deport bad ones immediately. Cost of legalizing should be fully paid by immigrant plus a yearly fine and recheck. No benefits and not eligible for citizenship for at least 25 yrs. This way we know who is here and where.
48 posted on 12/09/2005 10:07:19 AM PST by atlantis2000
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To: Bob Haran

REVOKE AUTOMATIC CITIZENSHIP to those born to illegal aliens. and make sure that the new border fence stretches the entire southern border.


49 posted on 12/20/2005 1:06:16 PM PST by UglyinLA
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