Posted on 11/30/2005 10:01:39 PM PST by Extremely Extreme Extremist
MADISON, Wis. One of law enforcement's biggest objections to allowing people to carry concealed weapons may have been overcome.
Sponsors of a Republican concealed-carry bill say they've reached a compromise with police groups. An amendment would allow officers on the road to run checks on cars they stop, to see if the owner has a permit to pack a weapon.
Casey Perry is executive director of the Wisconsin Troopers Association. He says the change would protect both people in the car and officers on the approach.
The bill's creators have insisted the list of permit holders remain secret to ensure criminals don't prey on people who aren't carrying.
Perry says under the amendment, any officer caught running registrations excessively to find out who has permits would be charged with a misdemeanor.
Melanie Fonder is a spokeswoman for Governor Doyle. She says Doyle still won't sign the bill.
He vetoed a previous concealed carry bill that cleared the Legislature.
Authors of the bill plan a news conference with police representatives tomorrow to give details of the amendment.
I'm actually hoping that Doyle vetoes this bill.
They're doing it in MN.
Carry and break no laws.
It's working.
I'm not entirely happy with it, but it's working.
Well, that's some BS. On the other hand, it's my understanding that WI is one of the few states that currently doesn't permit 2nd Amendment rights under any circumstances. If that's correct, maybe a compromise (with evil) is better than the alternative?
Actually, the article states that the compromise was made to get the police groups on their side. Doyle has constantly said that he will veto this bill. But hopefully this time around the legislature will have enough votes to override Doyle's veto.
Why? If criminals are stopped, they don't hand over permits, because they're fricking criminals. Why should law-abiding citizens do the same? What is the police afraid of?
Sorry, gun rights are non-negotiable.
Why don't they pass a law to see if you're a legal citizen or have a permit to be here?!?
Gutless wonders...
Per the article, Doyle is going to veto it anyway. And I'm glad - because Republicans in the Legislature need to grow a spine and introduce a real CCW bill.
In MN, if the LEO asks if you are holdin' you must answer correctly.
I have no problem with that. As a law-abiding-citizen.
Check all you want, but there is no law that requires anyone to drive a car they own. Set up an LLC (preferably in another state) and the cops will be as clueless as if you were a crook with a gun and no permit.
Any cop afraid of an armed law-abiding citizen should not be on the job.
any officer caught running registrations excessively to find out who has permits would be chargeable with a misdemeanor.
I just think it's redundant, IMO. People are just nosy.
Perfectly acceptable.
It's just so they know that you are allowed to carry.
Why is it any of the cop's business, any more than it is that of the shopkeeper, bartender, priest, or pal I encounter while carrying?
(Denny Crane: "I Don't Want To Socialize With A Pinko Liberal Democrat Commie.Say What You Like About Republicans. We Stick To Our Convictions. Even When We Know We're Dead Wrong.")
What do police have to fear from responsible law abiding gun owners? Now, what responsible, law abiding gun owners have to fear from police, that could be another discussion.
Concealed Weapons Bills Edges Closer
Well, you might be right after all. But you know how politicians are. Once something's in place it'll remain there longer than the half-lives of spent nuclear fuel.
"There is absolutely no need for any police officers to run background checks on concealed-carry permit holders"
They won't be running background checks on CCW holders. This just allows them to see if the person the vehicle is registered to has a CCW permit.
It's a feel good / do nothing amendment, designed to gain political support. There's no telling when you run a tag before you approach if the owner is the one driving. Or if it's a criminal who's stolen the car and it hasn't been reported yet.
It does nothing for officer safety, but it keeps a couple of police groups from objecting to the bill, which makes it more likely the veto would be overturned.
"I'm actually hoping that Doyle vetoes this bill."
Well, he will. But are you hoping the veto is upheld? That would be foolish.
The concealed carry bill sucks. Too much training time, too many restrictions.
However, it's better than what wisconsin has now.
Likely it will be vetoed, which will be fodder for 2006. But adding something like this makes an override of that veto more likely.
Once it gets passed, and there's a republican governor in place, restrictions can be removed and training time can be lowered to something that isn't so ridiculous. But you need to get the foot in the door first, so they can come back and say "we've had CCW for a year and it's been great, now we need to improve it".
If you want a perfect bill, there's no chance your going to get it at this time.
And what grade is you in, EEE?
Here is CA, we are not required to mention we have a CCW. In fact we are told not to mention it because this saves problems with cops going paranoid over our having a permit. I guess CA is not as oppressed as some other states, such as Texas and WI.
I agree.
Usually those objecting are Police Chiefs, or upper level management, most of the guys on the streets don't object to law-abiding citizens carrying guns.
Oh, great.....coming to Oregon soon, I'm sure.....where you're not allowed to Carry if you don't have a CARRY PERMIT in THEIR STATE! (We live in WA and have permits here, but go to Oregon often.....carrying.)
"I don't blame LEOs for wanting to know as soon as possible that you have a firearm with you."
However, this is meaningless, because every cop should approach every traffic stop as though the occupants of the car are armed.
The people they need to worry about aren't going to be listed on any database.
Every law abiding American citizen should have the legal right to carry a defense handgun without any government encumbrance.
LEOs have NOTHING to fear from armed, law-abiding citizens.
However, it IS nice to know that the guy you just pulled over is packing - but there is no need to run a check on every vehicle you pull over.
When I get pulled over by a fellow LEO (it happens fairly regularly; I have a heavy foot), I roll down the window, put both hands on the window ledge and announce that I have a concealed firearm. I then go on to state that I have a CCW and am a member of LE.
Forewarned is forearmed.
To the best of my knowledge, you don't have to hand your CCL over if you're not carrying, BUT...it will come up on the system when they check your DL and they'll probably come back and ask if you have a handgun with you. So it actually cuts down on the awkardness to go ahead and give it to 'em.
I've had a couple of tickets since I got my CCL, once when I had a pistol in the car and once not, and it wasn't a problem either time.
Rank-and-file LEOs have no fear of armed, law-abiding citizens.
Excuse me? What grade is I'm in?
Do your parents know you're on the computer?
I admit that I haven't and concede that I jumped the gun (pun intended) a little.
Actually, I think CA is more oppressed if the police get paranoid about a "mere citizen" legally having a gun. In a freer state, most police are not shocked (as if it is something unusual) if a citizen legally carries a gun. In the People's Republic of California, many people have been conditioned to believe that it is unthinkable that a peon should own a gun, much less legally carry one.
A polite demeanor and being on a first name with all the police does not hurt (His/her first name is "Officer").
The results sure beat having a BS attitude.
Of course, I really haven't been pulled over here for chickencrap, on rare occasions it is just for going faster than the sign says (back when the limit was 55 instead of 70)
No, your cops are more paranoid.
I have never seen any statistics of action against police by drivers of cars who are stopped and have a concealed weapons permit. Maybe that is because the statistics are rare. Why else aren't they used?
And when the officer does find a permit, then what?
Granted Virginia is a lot more gun friendly than WI, but I don't see this as a show stopper. If you don't like the bill I would say take it, and work on getting it changed during subsequent legislative sessions. That is how we do it here and have been quite sucessful at it.
Also, if you do not have a state Conceal Carry lobbying group like the VCDL here in Virginia, I suggest it is past time to get one organized.
In 1985 I was stopped on Westbound I-10 just 40 miles outside of San Antonio. The graying, statuesque officer told me as long as I slowed down within 50 miles of the city I wouldn't have much of a problem with him. I had out of state plates and was going close to 90 m.p.h.
He ran a plate and warrant check on my Michigan drivers' license.
He asked me if I had a firearm in my pickup and I said I did under the seat. I was instructed to exit the vehicle, was politely escorted to sit in the back of the patrol car. He retrieved my weapon, inspected it, looked around the inside of the cab, released me and returned it to me. He told me just to leave it lying on the seat next to me in the holster.
I stood there waiting for him to start writing a citation and he looked me in the eye and said ‘what are you waiting for, you can go now.’ Off I went, no ticket, no hassle... and a great appreciation for the state of Texas...
You've got it wrong. We don't have to show, not because the cops are all that paranoid, but because that is the state law. I was only kidding about the cops getting hyper if they found out. In this state it is not the cops business if we are carrying or not. This is one of very few good gun laws on the books.
Cross-linking.
IIRC, Arizona recently became more liberal with their CCW laws because it's proving to be a successful law. Can't remember what the changes were, though... Need my morning coffee.
http://www.scsun-news.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051130/NEWS01/511300314/-1/SILVERCITY
Why? If criminals are stopped, they don't hand over permits, because they're fricking criminals. Why should law-abiding citizens do the same? What is the police afraid of?
The one time I had to show my TX CHL (I was rear-ended in traffic) the cop said, "I don't care about that."
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