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Russia sells anti-missile systems to Iran (per agreement with Al Gore)
AFP via Babelfish translation | December 2, 2005

Posted on 12/02/2005 2:30:17 AM PST by HAL9000

Russia sells anti-missile systems in Iran

MOSCOW - Iran signed a contract with Russia on the sale of 29 Russian systems anti-missile Tor M-1, affirmed Friday the financial daily newspaper Russian Vedomosti, quoting sources in Russian military industry.

"Iran will defend itself against the United States and Israel with the Russian systems Tor M-1", titrated Vedomosti with the one.

According to the sources of the daily newspaper, expressing itself under cover of anonymity, 29 systems' anti-missile Tor M-1 able to intercept cruise missiles and airborne bombs were manufactured by the military factory Koupol with Ijevsk (the Volga) for Greece which had already bought 21 systems of this type.

But the end of the Nineties Greece had given up the new contract which would then have cost him 526 million dollars.

"We recently signed a contract with a foreign State on the sale of anti-missile systems Tor M-1", declared with AFP the spokesman of the factory Koupol, Maria Oudalova, joined by telephone to Ijevsk.

The spokesman refused to specify of which country it acted and which was the number of systems sold Tor M-1, explaining that it acted of a "strategic secrecy" of Russia.

The service of press of the official agency Rossoboronexport in charge of Russian exports of weapons, joined by AFP, affirmed that it "did not have information" in connection with this contract.

The contract "will not violate any international engagement of Russia", because Moscow had left in 2000 a secret agreement with Washington known under the name of Gore-Tchernomyrdine protocol which limited the Russian deliveries of weapons to Iran, underlines Vedomosti.

The Tor systems are "a weapon of defense" and "represent a danger to the United States only if this country attacks Iran", raises a Russian expert of the magazine Exportations of weapons, Mikhaïl Barabanov, quoted by the newspaper.

Iran in particular seeks "to defend its nuclear thermal power station" that Moscow is building in Bouchehr, bus "Israel had affirmed that it examined the possibility of launching strike preventive against this site", explains a professor of the Russian Institute of the International relations, Sergueï Droujilovski, quoted by Vedomosti.

Washington shows Teheran to seek to obtain the nuclear weapon under cover of civil activities.

The purchase of the systems Tor M-1 could cost Iran more than 700 million dollars, according to another expert, Dmitri Vassiliev of the Center of analysis of the strategies and technologies.



TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: abm; algore; chernomyrdin; gore; iran; missiles; russia; sam; sams; tor; torm1; tormissiles

1 posted on 12/02/2005 2:30:18 AM PST by HAL9000
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To: HAL9000
From RIA Novosti -

What the Russian papers say

VEDOMOSTI

Iran to get Russian missile interceptors

Moscow will sell Tor M-1 (SA-15 Gauntlet) surface-to-air missiles capable of knocking down cruise missiles and aircraft bombs to Iran. This contract does not violate any of the Kremlin's international commitments.

"Several days ago, Russia and Iran signed a contract for the delivery of Tor M-1 SAM systems," a defense factory manager said. "This concerns missiles that were produced on a previous Greek contract," an air defense industry official added. In all, Athens bought 21 Tor M-1 systems and had the right to purchase another 29. However, it decided to scrap this deal in the late 1990s.

"The Greek contract was worth $526 million, while the Iranian contract's price may exceed $700 million," Dmitry Vasilyev, an expert at the Center for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies, said.

"In 2000, Moscow withdrew from a Russian-U.S. agreement that restricted arms deliveries to Iran. Consequently, it was believed that Iran would become the third largest importer of Russian combat hardware after China and India. But Tehran spent not more than $300-400 million on Russian weaponry because it was not sure whether Moscow could implement its military-technical policies without asking Washington's advice," said Mikhail Barabanov, scientific editor of Arms Exports magazine.

"The sale of Tor M-1 missiles to Iran should be viewed as a purely commercial operation because they are tactical weapons," Vagif Guseinov, director of the Institute for Strategic Assessments and Analysis, believes. "Iran must defend the Bushehr nuclear power plant due to be completed by Russia by 2007, because Israel has repeatedly said that it was examining a possible preventive strike against that facility," Professor Sergei Druzhilovsky from the Moscow State Institute of International Relations (MGIMO), explained.

"Iran is not covered by any international arms-trade sanctions," Konstantin Kosachev, chairman of the State Duma's international affairs committee, noted. In his opinion, the Russian-Iranian contract does not therefore violate any of Moscow's international commitments. "Instead of taking legal action, the West would react politically to this deal," Kosachev stressed.


2 posted on 12/02/2005 2:33:48 AM PST by HAL9000 (Get a Mac - The Ultimate FReeping Machine)
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To: HAL9000

Gore, like other RATS, is the gift that keeps on giving!


3 posted on 12/02/2005 2:51:12 AM PST by blondee123 (Close our borders to illegals! Don't try to appease us!)
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To: HAL9000
Flashback: Al Gore's Irangate-Secret Pact With Russia-October 30, 2000
4 posted on 12/02/2005 3:02:34 AM PST by HAL9000 (Get a Mac - The Ultimate FReeping Machine)
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To: HAL9000

can u provide us with a link plz?


5 posted on 12/02/2005 3:32:19 AM PST by F14 Pilot (Democracy is a process not a product)
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To: HAL9000

Iran buys Russian surface to air missiles: paper

MOSCOW (Reuters) - Iran has signed a deal to buy Russian tactical surface-to-air missile systems, a Russian newspaper reported on Friday.

Iran is to buy 29 TOR-M1 systems, designed to bring down aircraft and guided missiles at low altitudes, said the Vedomosti daily, citing Russian defense sources close the deal.

The deal is the biggest sale of Russian defense hardware to Iran for about 5 years, the newspaper said. It did not say how much the order was worth.

Defense industry officials could not immediately be reached for comment.

Tehran is under intense international pressure after failing to convince the United States and others its nuclear scientists are working on fuel for power stations rather than bombs.

Russia is helping Iran build a nuclear power station at Bushehr.


6 posted on 12/02/2005 3:33:09 AM PST by HAL9000 (Get a Mac - The Ultimate FReeping Machine)
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To: HAL9000

http://today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=worldNews&storyID=2005-12-02T075544Z_01_KRA228500_RTRUKOC_0_US-RUSSIA-IRAN-ARMS.xml&archived=False


7 posted on 12/02/2005 3:35:05 AM PST by F14 Pilot (Democracy is a process not a product)
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To: F14 Pilot

The original report - http://www.vedomosti.ru/newspaper/article.shtml?2005/12/02/100264


8 posted on 12/02/2005 3:35:59 AM PST by HAL9000 (Get a Mac - The Ultimate FReeping Machine)
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To: HAL9000
vedomosti.ru via PROMT translation -

The Income of the derelict

Iran will be protected from the USA and Israel Russian " Torahs I-1 "

Alexey Nikolsky
Vasily Kashin
Ekaterina Kudashkina

02.12.2005, ? 227 (1508)

Good relations with the countries-derelicts can bring oshchutimuju profit. As it became known to "Sheets", Russia will sell to Iran antimissile complexes of " Torahs I-1 ", capable to force down an operated ammunition - cruise missiles and aerial bombs. And this transaction does not break any international obligations of Russia.

As the manager of the enterprise of a war industry has informed "Sheets", several days ago Russia and Iran have signed the contract on delivery is antiaircraft-rocket complexes (ZRK) " Torahs I-1 ". The information was confirmed with other source close to the transaction, and a source in the industry of means of air defence. To receive acknowledgement at the Izhevsk factory "Dome" where do "Torahs", it was not possible, and the employee of the Iranian embassy in Moscow has not confirmed and has not denied the information on the transaction.

The Source in the industry of means of air defence has specified, that it is a question of sale of a party from 29 "Torov" which were made under the Greek order. Greece has bought 21 ZRK and had an option for 29, but in the end 1990 has refused it. In opinion of the industrialist, the contract will allow "Dome" to correct for position essentially. According to "spark-eioa?oaen", volume of realization of the enterprise in 2004 has made all 831 million rbl. at losses in 672 million rbl. the Expert of the Center of the analysis of strategy and technologies Dmitry Vasilev reminds, that the Greek contract cost $526 million so cost of the contract with Iran can exceed $700 million

In opinion of the scientific editor of magazine " Export of arms " Michael Barabanova, this transaction with Iran - the largest with 2000 when Russia has left the confidential agreement from the USA about restriction of deliveries of the weapon to Iran, known as " the report Mountain - Tchernomyrdin ". Moscow incured the obligation to not conclude new weapon transactions with Iran, in an exchange of the USA promised to promote an output of Russia on the international markets of defensive technologies, but promises have not constrained. " After an output of Russia from this unequal agreement there were expectations, that Iran will spill on ours oboronku a shower of gold and becomes the largest after China and India the importer ", - speaks Drums. But Iran for five years has bought the weapon no more than on $300-400 million as, most likely, after history with the report the Mountain - Tchernomyrdin has not been assured that Moscow is capable to conduct the military-technical policy carelessly to Washington. " Torahs ", according to the expert, - especially defensive weapon, for interception of cruise missiles, it bears "threat" the USA, only if they will make aggression against Iran.

Christopher Lengton from the International institute of strategic researches in London speaks, that " if it is valid so purchase of " Torahs I-1 " just when Iran increases strategic opportunities, will allow Teheran to resist more effectively to attempts to strike anticipatory blow on its objects with use of cruise missiles ". " If it becomes known, that delivery ZRK - a part of the program of the military-technical cooperation coordinated several years ago the USA, most likely, it is necessary to reconcile. But if the transaction has arisen now, at the height of contradictions around of the nuclear program of Iran, it will be apprehended as encouragement of nuclear ambitions of Teheran. Then rigid reaction of the USA " is probable, - speaks Lengton.

The Transaction should not cause indignation of the USA, this tactical weapon, therefore sale "Torov" to Iran should be considered exclusively as trading operation, director of Institute of strategic estimations and the analysis is assured Vagif Gusejnov. It is necessary for Iran to take under protection of the atomic power station in Bushere which Russia will complete to 2007 as Israel repeatedly declared, that considers an opportunity of preventive impact on this object, professor MGIMO Sergey Druzhilovsky explains. (Israel has operated aerial bombs. Such bombs had been destroyed the nuclear center of Iraq. " Torahs I-1 " it is effective against them. - "Sheets") " Russia too extremely is not interested, that this object has been destroyed, - it continues. - therefore we shall strengthen defensibility of Iran so, how much it will be necessary, considering, that we deliver defensive kinds of the weapon ".

According to the chapter of the Duma committee on Konstantin Kosacheva's defense, is not present any it is international-legal restrictions on deliveries to Iran ZRK: " Iran is not object of the international sanctions in sphere of traffic in arms. Therefore, if such transaction is concluded, I do not see in it any infringements of the international obligations of Russia. I suppose, that the decision of Russia on delivery of complexes to Iran will meet negative reaction in the West, however this criticism will carry not legal, but political character ". Evgenie Satanovsky, the president of Institute of studying of Israel and the Near East, speaks, that the USA and Israel always sharply react to the information on strengthening air defence of such countries, as Syria and Iran. However now it is impossible to assume, which will be reaction of Israel. In the country too complex internal political situation.

RUSSIA BRAGS

" We have a technological reserve which allows to create the arms, capable to overcome existing and perspective ABOUT ", - the chief of the Joint Staff of Armed forces of Russia general Jury Baluevsky has declared. But the given development are not directed yet to industrial production is very dear technology and its realization depends on conditions, it has added. " Creation ABOUT is all the same what to dig in money in the ground. Efficiency of this system at existing types of arms is close to zero ", - has concluded Baluevsky.


9 posted on 12/02/2005 3:41:00 AM PST by HAL9000 (Get a Mac - The Ultimate FReeping Machine)
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Comment #10 Removed by Moderator

To: HAL9000
The Tor M1 would be ineffective defending against a Stealth attack. It would be open to attack from Wild Weasels – HARM range in excess of 48 km, Tor range 1-12 km.
11 posted on 12/02/2005 3:47:23 AM PST by R. Scott (Humanity i love you because when you're hard up you pawn your Intelligence to buy a drink.)
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To: HAL9000

related thread

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1532579/posts


12 posted on 12/02/2005 3:52:02 AM PST by F14 Pilot (Democracy is a process not a product)
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To: HAL9000
As long as the USAF gets the proper jamming and self destruct codes - Russian Mafia should be able to come up with these.

And will you just look at those Iranians buying from the infidels, unbelievable!!!!
13 posted on 12/02/2005 5:11:47 AM PST by TomasUSMC (FIGHT LIKE WW2, FINISH LIKE WW2. FIGHT LIKE NAM, FINISH LIKE NAM.)
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To: R. Scott
[The SA-15] ... "would be ineffective defending against a Stealth attack. It would be open to attack from Wild Weasels – HARM range in excess of 48 km, Tor range 1-12 km."
Stealth is low-observable, not invisible. An old SA-3 shotdown an F-117 over Serbia, and the SA-15 is a significantly more advanced system.

As for Wild Weasels? Getting a good HARM shot on a mobile system is difficult; getting a radar operator to cooperate by leaving his radar up long enough to give you good information is nearly impossible.

A good SAM operator will be getting his target acquisition data from a different system, waiting for the target to enter his lethal range. As it gets close, he'll come up, launch a missile or two, and then go down, all within the space of 8 - 10 seconds.

According to FAS.ORG, the SA-15 is a command guided missile, so they would have to continue tracking until the missile hits the target. Assuming a 12km range, and the speed of cruise missiles and strike aircraft, the entire engagement would last well short of a minute.
14 posted on 12/02/2005 5:26:16 AM PST by HerrKobes (All information in this post taken from public sources.)
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To: HerrKobes
An old SA-3 shotdown an F-117 over Serbia, and the SA-15 is a significantly more advanced system.

The aircraft were ordered to use the same flight path on several consecutive missions. A barrage of missiles were fired – and they succeeded in getting a hit.
15 posted on 12/02/2005 5:44:07 AM PST by R. Scott (Humanity i love you because when you're hard up you pawn your Intelligence to buy a drink.)
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To: HAL9000

Thankyou! Bookmarked for reference.


16 posted on 12/02/2005 12:12:31 PM PST by AmeriBrit (DEMOCRATS LIE AND OUR TROOPS DIE!)
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To: HAL9000

When an Iranian nuke detonates over Moscow, I suspect this deal will loose it's profit margin.


17 posted on 12/02/2005 1:02:23 PM PST by American in Israel (A wise man's heart directs him to the right, but the foolish mans heart directs him toward the left.)
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To: HAL9000

http://www.defense-update.com/products/t/tor.htm

This web sites mentions this thread!


18 posted on 12/03/2005 2:58:42 AM PST by F14 Pilot (Democracy is a process not a product)
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To: F14 Pilot

Thanks for the link.


19 posted on 12/03/2005 3:07:31 AM PST by HAL9000 (Get a Mac - The Ultimate FReeping Machine)
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To: HerrKobes

But what happens if a pilot launches several rockets at once? To track the fisrt rocket, a Tor has to expose himself for a minute, so his location can be feed into the next rocket...


20 posted on 12/09/2005 11:26:46 AM PST by HellRider
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To: HAL9000

bump


21 posted on 02/25/2006 10:51:47 AM PST by Tailgunner Joe
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To: HellRider

That's what we have Predators armed with Hellfires for.

And if it came down to it, saturate the bloody things with cruise missiles used as decoys, THEN slam them with the real strike aircraft. Also, these things only have about 8 rounds apiece, then they have to spend at least an hour being reloaded by a dedicated maintenance truck with a crane. So, 8 shots max, and then they're toast.

I'm not worried about giving this tactic away, because if the operators ignore the "decoys", they're not decoys any more - since they're still armed. Either way, they go ka-BOOOM. Ooops.


The only problem I see here is that this missile is supposed to go about 3060 kph, and HARM tops out at "only" 2287 kph. Could be nasty if it ever fires on a manned plane. A Predator coming in at tree-top height with a Hellfire will still ruin its day - the system apparently still has a 'hard' floor of 10 meters. And they sacrificed range for speed - 6km max range/altitude? That's 20,000 feet, give or take. Load up the B-52s with HARMs (48km-plus range) and fly them around at 50K (service ceiling) and rain down HARMs on the idiots all day long.


22 posted on 04/20/2006 1:02:38 AM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: HAL9000
"Iran will defend itself against the United States and Israel with the Russian systems Tor M-1", titrated Vedomosti with the one.

titrated?

23 posted on 04/20/2006 1:36:43 AM PDT by wotan
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To: Spktyr
Thats good tactical thinking, send in slow flying cruise missiles as decoys & then hit them with aircraft. I was thinking the same scenario & so was every other Russian air defense adviser, currently working closely in joint defense with the Iranian air defense unit.

Never the less good thinking, but your not revealing any secret tactical breakthrough...

Don't worry these future operators & their commanders will have gone through every possible strike scenario.

HARM is an anti radar missile, a TOR system is a air defense system on a tank chassis. It like using a firecracker against it.
24 posted on 01/16/2007 6:06:44 PM PST by Mad Mark (The enemy has ears...)
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To: Spktyr

Dont forget, the TOR system most likely will have a defensive countermeasures chaff, against radar seeking missiles like HARM.


25 posted on 01/16/2007 6:33:17 PM PST by Mad Mark (The enemy has ears...)
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To: Mad Mark

Except it doesn't matter - if you jam a HARM, it just loiters around in the area until you turn your radar on, then it comes and finds you. Remember, HARM is a High-speed Anti-Radiation Missile - it homes in on enemy radar and radio transmissions. And if you turn off your radar, you can't guide the missiles.

HARM also has a wonderful feature where if it does get a solid lock on a stationary-type radar and then gets jammed or the radar turns off, it flies to the place where it last saw the radar and explodes.


26 posted on 01/16/2007 10:04:04 PM PST by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: HAL9000

bookmark for later printing.


27 posted on 01/16/2007 10:06:14 PM PST by IrishCatholic (No local communist or socialist party chapter? Join the Democrats, it's the same thing.)
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To: HAL9000
Gonna be one busy little system trying to take care of a couple of B-2 loads. The Russian story reads like a fairy tale from the old Soviet propaganda machine.

I wonder how it works on stealth cruise missiles? Or incoming ballistic nuclear missiles?
28 posted on 01/16/2007 10:07:02 PM PST by Tarpon
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To: Spktyr

You are correct on the missiles. I remember when we went after Qaddafi duck and our missiles did just that!


29 posted on 01/16/2007 10:08:33 PM PST by rbosque
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To: rbosque

Yup, the guys in the EF-111 Spark Varks and the few remaining F-4 Wild Weasel birds really liked them. The Soviets and Europeans that sold Qaddafi his air defense gear were somewhat less enthused.

I still haven't seen a really good system to defeat a HARM strike. Maybe combine the radar truck with a point defense system of some kind? Even if you did that, it should be relatively easy to saturate such a system, since these systems are too few in number to deploy in heavy layered coverage.


30 posted on 01/16/2007 10:14:13 PM PST by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: Spktyr

I had heard that in Kosovo, those guys had rigged microwave ovens to turn on with the doors opened to fool the missiles but I'm not sure.


31 posted on 01/16/2007 10:49:16 PM PST by rbosque
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To: Spktyr
Actually HARM has various modes and it will behave differently depending on the threat. HARM can even prioritize targets.

Newer HARMs also have GPS and even if the enemy shuts their radar off it will continue to track fairly precisely towards the target using the last known location.

Sometimes HARM is fired blind (That's a mode it can be set for) and then it goes up up and away into the bososphere, loitering for a very long time and just waiting for Buba to turn his radar on. The HARM in this case is loitering over his head somewhere and as soon as he turns his radar on, Mr. HARM will show him what a 150 pound blast frag warhead can do.

HARM in reality is also not alone. There are other systems that are added to the mix. HARM today is simply popularly known.
32 posted on 01/29/2007 11:20:31 AM PST by Red6 (Come and get it.)
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