I believe most Indians had retreated to Indiana by that time, and the others had returned to India to provide tech support.
Posted on 12/02/2005 5:35:40 PM PST by Optimus Prime
I've got several questions about Valley Forge, both during Revolutionary times and now, and I was hoping you folks could help me out.
1) What Indian tribes could one find in the general vicinity of Valley Forge during the Revolutionary times?
2) In the modern day, is there still a Valley Forge town? I checked Wikipedia, and it says that a place called Schuylkill Township contains what was Valley Forge. Is that true?
3) In Valley Forge/Schuylkill, which team is considered the home team? The Philadelphia Eagles (My initial guess, given how close Valley Forge is to Philadelphia) or the Pittsburgh Stealers?
That's all I got right now, though I may have more questions. Either way, I'd greatly appreciate some answers to my questions. Thanks.
Lots of info here:
http://www.ushistory.org/valleyforge/
info here as well:
http://www.nps.gov/vafo/
I don't think there were any Indians whatsoever in the vicinity of Valley Forge in the American Revolution; it was a heavily settled area and actually outside of some very small communities largely consisting of Indians that had intermarried and that really didn't continue the Indian Culture, the East Coast Indians were all dead or migrated out much earlier than a lot of people would imagine.
The home teams of the Valley Forge area are all univerally the Philly teams. Western Pennsylvania and Pittsburgh is like the other side of the moon; people even talk completely differently out there.
Have you read "1776" by the historian, David McCullough? Lots of excellent information in this very readable book. My brilliant home-schooled grandsons, who are 13 and 10, learned a great deal from using this book as one of their US History texts.
IIRC, the Indians were pretty much gone from that part of Pa. by the time of the Revolution. The Lenni Lenape is the tribe most closely identified with Southeastern Pa.
2) In the modern day, is there still a Valley Forge town? I checked Wikipedia, and it says that a place called Schuylkill Township contains what was Valley Forge. Is that true?
That is true. There is no municipality called Valley Forge. There is a Valley Forge Post Office, however, and several zip codes accept that as a city name so you will see businesses & such with a Valley Forge address.
In Valley Forge/Schuylkill, which team is considered the home team? The Philadelphia Eagles
Valley Forge is in Chester County which is a Philadelphia suburb and is strong Eagles country.
Remember, Schuylkill is pronounced "Skookle"!
I highly recommend a visit to the Valley Forge Park. Its a very moving experience to walk the land where the patriot army camped. And when you are done you can head over to King of Prussia for one of the largest malls in the United States.
And the post about the Lenni Lenape is correct. They were one of the last tribes in the area. If I remember my grade school history correctly some were still living in the area just east of West Chester, PA (south of Valley Forge) circa 1776.
My brother and his wife (who grew up on what I think is called the Main Line, County Line road or something like that) had their wedding reception at St. David's Country Club. Beautiful area.
I used to be quite interested in PA history during Revolutionary war times...geneology reserach gave me insights into a number of ancestors who fought with and against Indians in PA, from time of French and Indian War and beyond. Some were killed by Indians and some were captured in various generations of settlement in eastern, central and western PA. Several were at Valley Forge with Washington.
If you read about William Penn's treaty negotiations and look at the old maps, you can get some idea of which tribes inhabited or claimed control over which territories. Boundaries then were not as they are drawn by state lines today.
These sites might help:
http://www.americanrevolution.org/ind1.html
http://www.cr.nps.gov/logcabin/html/vf4.html
VFMA is where the movie TAPS was filmed, right? My brother got married at the Church of The Redeemer in Bryn Mawr. Great old stone church. Just beautiful. The wedding was in September and the weather was awesome.
In Valley Forge, the Eagles are the home team....but please, that would be the Pittsburgh STEELERS!
While camped at Valley Forge during the winter, General Washington seen hundreds of his men freezing to death and hundreds more giving up and simply going back to their homes and families.
General Washington knew of these religious Germans (Amish and Mennonites) living nearby and approached them with a deal. Keep in mind that these people don't believe in any kind of war, killing and other harm to another human. The deal was, if they would join in on the fighting, and if victorious, deeds to land they were squatted on would be drawn up.
What do you think happened?
They didn't have the Eagles or Steelers during the Revolutionary war....
Valley Forge is in Chester County.
I drive through Valley Forge every week. Rt. 23 cuts through the middle of it on the way to Phoenixville. Anyways, today it's basically a great big rolling lawn. Very nice for picnics, etc. There are still a number of small log structures in the park which have been maintained. There is no "town" of Valley Forge, but there is a zip code and there's plenty of neighborhoods and subdivisions in the vicinity with the address "Valley Forge". A buddy of mine lives there.
Valley Forge National Historical Park is in Upper Merion Township. (Some of the park, north of the Schuylkill River may be in Lower Providence Township, and I think a piece of it is in Schuylkill Township as well.) They probably have a tourist center in the park somewhere, but I've never visited it.
I recommend that you go to the Pennsylvania board here at Free Republic. I'm sure there's plenty of freepers who live in the King of Prussia area who know plenty about the park. Also, as a point of reference, Valley Forge is just outside of Philadelphia, to the northwest.
Good luck,
LH
No, Valley Forge is in Montgomery County.
Brandywine is in Chester County.
Thank you. I have seen that name and wondered how it was pronounced. I have never heard it spoken before, and your written pronunciation gave me my answer.
I lived a half-mile from the park entrance for fifteen years.
"Actually, Valley Forge is on the south side of the Schuylkill which places it in Chester County. Check mapquest.
I lived a half-mile from the park entrance for fifteen years."
Really? My grandparent's live in that area.
I think it depends on what part of the park. According to valleyforge.org it's in Montgomery County.
It's a beautiful area but it's getting overdeveloped.
Boy that's the truth. My grandparents live in Lower Providence township and I can't believe the changes there in the past few years. The 363/Egypt road intersection is impossible now!
I could blame it all on the current township supervisors, but I'm a little biased as my grandmother was a supervisor many years ago. Most of the growth happened after her "watch".
I believe most Indians had retreated to Indiana by that time, and the others had returned to India to provide tech support.
There were also Oneida and Brotherton Indians AT Valley Forge WITH the Continental Army.
No Problemo. I visited the Valley Forge battlesite as an eighteenth century reenactor in 1979, having read of the Schuylkill River all my life, and was amazed at a local bus driver's rendering of the historic name.
Sorta like Highway 31W outside Fort Knox, KY, the "Dixie Highway" only we called it the `Dixie Die-Way' because it was three-lane just like the West Virginia Turnpike, and just as dangerous. Thanks for the traumatic memories!
Really?? 
I've always pronounced it "schu-el-kill". Well, I guess you do learn something new everyday.
Then you might be interested to know (if you don't already) that up to the time of the American Revolution Philadelphia was the #2 city in the British Empire -- both in size, population, and in the fine arts, quality of life, quality of education, the brilliance of its society, cultural refinement, etc. -- with London, of course, being #1.
This was why there was sort of a unspoken "understanding" in the early years that Philadelphia was to be the nation's capital. As cities went it was a shinning jewel.
It was not at all unusual for young men taking their "Grand Tour" to visit Philadelphia as well as Paris, Rome, Florence, and Heidelberg. In fact only Paris had a better reputation than Philadelphia when it came to haute cuisine (fine dining).
This was the bases for the product known as "Philadelphia Cream Cheese". It was never made in Philly, but was given that name to imply that it was something deliciously out of the ordinary, extra quality, high class, etc. Sort of like "French vanilla" or "London broil" or "New York cut". I know...I know...looking at the city today its hard to believe. Time, alas, has not been kind
good links
ping
My sister's backyard, backs onto Valley Forge Park, on the back side. Just across the street from their little subdivision is the Audobon bird sanctuary.
I should have told you that I doubt that there were any Indians in the immediate area at that time. The Philadelphia area was pretty well settled by the time of the revolution. Many of the homes are still standing.
Hearing Schuylkill spoken for the first time was a surprise to me, too. Kind of like a series called
"Meet the Skookles!"
One time, I walked through snow in my bare feet just to see what it was like. I discovered that it was cold and uncomfortable. I was only out there a minute or two and already my feet had turned red and ice cold. It took nearly a half hour to get back to normal. So how could one spend a whole winter like this?
A lot of them didn't make it through the winter.
If Washington's soldiers only had lack of footwear as their problem they might have been OK, we evolved (or were Created if you wish) to walk without shoes, and unshod populations have existed in cold climes; even in New England there were those due to poverty had to go unshod in the Winter. Of course there is a process of adaptation...but the human body and mind have great adaptive powers.
In October I started walking barefoot in the woods as an experiment to address back and joint pain...and was able to stop taking multiple prescription strengh NSAIDs daily...my last walk was December 1 (walking in part on frozen ground and in icy water; it was fine) but I will go outside and do quick chores--at 15%F today I didn't spend a lot of time outside barefoot.
Many of Washington's soldiers no doubt were used to going barefoot during the non-Winter months, and were more physically hardy due to their pre-war lifestyle than we 20/21st Century Americans.
You might find this Barefoot in the Snow link of interest. http://www.geocities.com/barefoothour/epiga.htm
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