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To: Stultis
re: The antievolution movement doesn't now, and never has, had a damn thing to do with how evolution is taught, only that it is taught.)))

Well, if your side could ever stop its infernal, terrified caterwalling, you might take a lesson from diplomacy and shift the terms of debate. It's this adolescent refusal to even hear another POV that's going to defeat you. People who don't particularly give a hoot about your status as Scienceman (the superhero!) at least pay attn to how you frame an argument.

271 posted on 12/03/2005 7:44:32 PM PST by Mamzelle (evogracious#6--you unbelievably ignorant clown!)
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To: Mamzelle
Well, if your side could ever stop its infernal, terrified caterwalling, you might take a lesson from diplomacy and shift the terms of debate.

Indeed. How dare we require that arguments be founded in logic, rationality and reality!
283 posted on 12/03/2005 8:30:14 PM PST by Dimensio (http://angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif <-- required reading before you use your next apostrophe!)
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To: Mamzelle

When I first read the article I was struck by its overwrought hysteria. Evidently, if you teach high school students the theory of evolution without the proper reverence and even hint that there might be some phemonena it cannot explain, it will inevitably lead to scientists being burned at the stake.

I'm an atheist. If it were proved that the first living cell was the product of intelligent design, it would no more establish the existence of God than would the discovery of a four billion year old space probe on the moon.

All of this is just dancing around the political question -- why should a federal judge be able to tell a local school board what it should teach?


292 posted on 12/03/2005 11:12:30 PM PST by Alain Chartier
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To: Mamzelle
Well, if your side could ever stop its infernal, terrified caterwalling, you might take a lesson from diplomacy and shift the terms of debate. It's this adolescent refusal to even hear another POV that's going to defeat you.

Wrong. As with any group that refuses to play by the rules -- in this case that your views must first succeed, on merit, as science before they deserve a place in science curricula -- and instead pursues affirmative action, bar lowering, or other special dispensation; "diplomacy" and other forms of appeasement will only encourage them to pursue such illegitimate avenues more vigorously.

Surely you would agree with this principle if the focus were on appeals for affirmative inclusion of environmentalism (as opposed to scientific ecology), of identity group icons in history, or any of the numerous curricular emendations constantly sought, and too often obtained, by the political left.

The only appropriate and effective response to this is absolute, unapologetic and unbending INSISTENCE and high and hard-nosed academic standards; restricting curricula to covering material with objective academic merit.

When creationism, or ID, or any non- or extra- evolutionary view has earned such merit, I have no objection to teaching it, which in such case will happen as a matter of course anyway. In the meantime I'm not "shifting" one single, solitary inch.

320 posted on 12/04/2005 9:50:50 AM PST by Stultis (I don't worry about the war turning into "Vietnam" in Iraq; I worry about it doing so in Congress.)
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