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2nd Look at Bush Service Award: White House panel unaware honoree was on Death Row (TOOKIE)
SF Chronicle ^ | 8-6-05 | Bob Egelko

Posted on 12/03/2005 10:24:16 AM PST by cgk

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To: Spiff; plain talk

It has the potential to make Bush look like a fool because the case has become politicized. Politicized justice translates into no justice at all. When this happens it's best just to back off...

Quite simply, politically you'll never please more than about half of the populace, and you'll further alienate the other half. A populace that, I might add, has their own mix of political and moral issues.

These maters need to decided based on facts, not what's good or bad for some politician. The later is a miscarriage of justice and it ultimately harms those involved.

None of us know what the deal is with this Williams character. If you state that you do, you are a fool. Convicting someone in court does not imply that they did it, anymore than acquitting them implies that they didn't. (Would either of you suggest that OJ DIDN'T kill that woman, just because he was acquitted?) I think not. Well, it works both ways.

I personally object to the death penalty, but not because I don't believe in "An eye for an eye". My objection lies in the corruption and incompetence of our justice system.

Dozens of men have been released form death row, because of the efforts of a Nun and a pack of high school kids along with a smattering of paralegals. These men have been exonerated with DNA evidence.

There is no question that the state has executed innocent people... I find that unacceptable. If high school kids can somehow discern the truth, then the government should be able to. The state should have an overriding interest in justice... They do not.

Until that changes, I will oppose the death penalty. You should too.


51 posted on 12/04/2005 8:19:05 AM PST by babygene (Viable after 87 trimesters)
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To: Prime Choice

More poor work by the Bush administration. They really suck at PR!


52 posted on 12/04/2005 8:20:11 AM PST by over3Owithabrain
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To: Spiff

It took a bit of a search, but his Nobel nominations have come from some member of Swiss Parliament, with the rest from two professors at Notre Dame and Brown University.


53 posted on 12/04/2005 8:29:09 AM PST by ErnBatavia (403-3)
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To: babygene; plain talk; Spiff; All
Convicting someone in court does not imply that they did it, anymore than acquitting them implies that they didn't

It certainly does "imply" that, though there are occasional wrongly-decided cases; you cited one yourself (OJ).

Overall, I have faith in our system of justice. I think that most times, juries get it right.

54 posted on 12/04/2005 8:35:50 AM PST by proud American in Canada
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To: babygene
Until that changes, I will oppose the death penalty. You should too.

Maybe you're most afraid of the death penalty because being a moron may one day be a capital offense.

In fact, I want MORE of the death penalty. Since the death penalty was restated 25 years ago, only 1,000 murdering scum have been executed in the U.S. Compare that to the approximately 375,000 murders that have taken place since then. A rough estimate tells me that we've only executed about one half of one percent of the murderers in the United States. We have literally tens of thousands of murderers being kept alive by taxpayer dollars and the rest are still roaming the streets. This is absolutely WRONG! Every murderer must die to prevent him from murdering again and to deter potential murderers.

55 posted on 12/04/2005 9:57:36 AM PST by Spiff ("They start yelling, 'Murderer!' 'Traitor!' They call me by name." - Gael Murphy, Code Pink leader)
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To: Spiff; babygene
My math was a little off. I overestimated our success at executing murderers. In fact, the numbers are far worse. This is a recent article from Human Events Online that explains things in better detail:

1,000 Down, 599,000 to Go: Why America Needs More Executions
by Amanda B. Carpenter
Human Events Online
Posted Dec 2, 2005

Kenneth Boyd’s execution in North Carolina this week marked only the 1,000th time the death penalty has been used since the Supreme Court reinstated it in 1976.

But a simple comparison of the number of murders to the number of executions shows that the murderers are winning—by a long shot.

According to the Justice Department, 32,665 people were murdered in America in 2003 and 2004. In those same two years, according to the Death Penalty Information Center, 124 murderers were executed. That was 0.0037% executions per murder.

Michael Paranzino, who heads Throw Away the Key, a group supporting the death penalty, said, “During these 1,000 executions, we’ve had 600,000 murders. We’re only executing a tiny sliver of the number of murderers in this country.”

Boyd, who earned the dubious distinction of being the 1,000th person executed since 1976, was convicted of shooting his estranged wife Julie nine times and killing her father in front of his two sons.

Paranzino believes politicians who fail to enforce the death penalty despite widespread voter support for it should pay a political cost. “We will hold politicians like [Virginia Gov.] Mark Warner accountable when they side with the killers and against the working families of America.”

But he is pleased the debate between pro- and anti-death penalty groups is happening. “We’re trying to turn their milestone on its head and show in fact, the milestone is 600,000 murders and it’s those people we should be mourning and it’s for those people we should be praying for today.”

Miss Carpenter is Assistant Editor for HUMAN EVENTS.


56 posted on 12/04/2005 10:15:06 AM PST by Spiff ("They start yelling, 'Murderer!' 'Traitor!' They call me by name." - Gael Murphy, Code Pink leader)
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To: babygene
Let's review your original idiotic post:

I have mixed feelings about this... I'm not sure being on death row should disqualify him for the President's Call to Service Award.

Out of millions we can't find someone more qualified then death row convicts? What kind of craziness is this?

Has he or has he not he made an appropriate contribution? Isn't that really the question?

No it's not the question. But since you asked - his "contribution" was murdering four people. Murderers shouldn't receive Presidential honors.

Under the circumstances (unfortunately), the best thing for Bush to do would be to commute the sentence and defend the award.

Commute his sentence because his staff made a mistake and gave an award to the wrong person? Is that what you are suggesting?

The world is not going to end if this guy spends the rest of his life in prison instead of being executed. There is apparently no question that this creep has done some good in the last two decades. Perhaps he will do more. Executing him now will just make Bush look like a fool.

How? If he is guilty he should pay the consequences. His sentence for murdering four people was not a life sentence, it was a death sentence which should be carried regardless of the speechs and books he puts out and irregardless of how he may have changed. To do otherwise is not justice as what decided upon by a jury and a judge in our legal system. If you want to change that system - that's one thing - but to suggest that a sentence not be carried out because some people like you personally don't like the death penalty or because a Bush staffer made a mistake is not justice.

57 posted on 12/04/2005 11:10:42 AM PST by plain talk
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