Posted on 12/06/2005 8:24:01 AM PST by laney
A group of top Muslim clerics have demanded that Orthodox Christian symbols be removed from the Russian coat of arms and have complained about the Russian authorities and power-wielding structures allegedly refusing to abide by the principle of secularity, the Interfax news agency reported.
“This is not only a question of the Russian coat of arms. We can say that icons are all but put up on the walls of state offices,” Nafigulla Ashirov, chairman of the Spiritual Board of Muslims of Asian Russia, told journalists.
He accused units of the Defense and Interior Ministries and the Federal Security Service of appropriating various saints “who are allegedly the patrons of warriors”. “The power-wielding structures, the authorities and the Russian Orthodox Church of the Moscow Patriarchy are erecting large crosses at border posts and the approaches to towns. Orthodox chapels are being built in the command bodies of the armed forces,” he lamented.
In his turn, Damir Mukhetdinov, deputy head of the Spiritual Board of the Nizhny Novgorod region’s Muslims, shared the Muslims’ concerns. Their feelings are insulted by the Orthodox presence in the Russian coat of arms.
“We, the Muslims of Nizhny Novgorod region, were wholeheartedly in favour of introducing the unity of the peoples holiday. We could not have imagined, however, that the sound of Orthodox bells and the icon of the Virgin of Kazan would become the symbols of this holiday in Russia,” he said about the day of people’s unity. The mufti is convinced that “all this violates the secular nature of the state and doesn’t contribute to the unity of Russia’s peoples”.
Ali Visam Bardvil, head of the Spiritual Board of Karelia’s Muslims, too, believes that the presence of Christian symbols in the coat of arms is impermissible. He said that Russia “is neither a Muslim nor a Christian country”.
“The cross is not a Muslim symbol. We respect the religious feeling of Christians but do not recognize the crucifixion of Christ,” the Muslim figure clarified. “Therefore,” he went on, “in my opinion Orthodox symbols should be removed from the coat of arms to make it acceptable to all religions.” Bardvil emphasized that Muslims would support all politicians calling for a change to the current symbols in the Russian coat of arms
Let's just give eurpoe to Islam and get it over with.
Cry me a river. How mulsims treat other when they are in charge (good comparison):
Saudi Arabia - Conversion by a Muslim to another religion is punishable by death. Bibles are illegal. Churches are illegal.
Yemen - Bans proselytizing by non-Muslims and forbids conversions. The Government does not allow the building of new non-Muslim places of worship.
Kuwait - Registration and licensing of religious groups. Members of religions not sanctioned in the Koran may not build places of worship. Prohibits organized religious education for religions other than Islam.
Egypt - Islam is the official state religion and primary source of legislation. Accordingly, religious practices that conflict with Islamic law are prohibited. Muslims may face legal problems if they convert to another faith. Requires non-Muslims to obtain what is now a presidential decree to build a place of worship.
Algeria - The law prohibits public assembly for purposes of practicing a faith other than Islam. Non-Islamic proselytizing is illegal, and the Government restricts the importation of non-Islamic literature for distribution.
Jordan - Has the death penalty for any Muslim selling land to a Jew.
Sudan - Conversion by a Muslim to another religion is punishable by death.
Pakistan - Conversion by a Muslim to another religion is punishable by death. Bans proselytizing by non-Muslims. Christians regularly put in prison for charges of blasphemy.
Ban Islame.
Pretty Scarry what the Religion of Peace is trying to accomplish.....NEVER EVER HAPPEN HERE..
I love the double headed eagle and the coat of arms of St. George. A shame if it is trashed once again by the new Communists, i.e., the Islamists.
Or, put another way, "Jesus and the Apostles are liars" says Mohammed who was born 600 years later but knows this fact because the voices in his head told him so.
Of course there are no Crescents on any of the flags of Muslim countries, I suppose.
Seriously, I expect the ACLU will be sending a delegation over to Russia to help the Muslims argue this case.
http://www.dawn.com/weekly/mazdak/mazdak.htm
Conversion losses
By Irfan Husain
MEET Sanno Amra and his wife Champa: a middle-aged Hindu couple. They live in a small, simple but spotlessly clean home in Karachi’s Punjab Colony.
Until six weeks ago, they lived with their five children, reasonably content with their lot. Sanno worked as a chauffeur, and his wife cooked for a family. On October 18, their lives suddenly fell apart: Champa returned home from work to discover that her three oldest daughters were missing — Reena (21), Usha (19) and Rima (17) had seemingly vanished without a trace. This is any parent’s worst nightmare, but the couple’s woes had only begun.
After searching frantically for the girls, they went to the local police station where the SHO put them off without registering a case. A couple of days later, they met the deputy superintendent of police for Clifton. This proved to be the only bright spot in the entire tragic episode, for DSP Raza Shah went out of his way to help. He forced his subordinates to file an FIR, and his intervention was invaluable in ensuring the safety of the parents. And just for the record, the MQM ‘sector-in- charge’ also lent them his organisation’s support.
On October 22, a police FIR for kidnapping was duly prepared, naming three young men from the neighbourhood as the principal suspects. Immediately, Sanno and his wife started getting threats from their neighbours. Earlier they had never had any problems, although they were the only Hindu family in a predominantly Muslim locality. But now, the same people were pressuring them to remove the names of the local boys from the FIR.
Within days, they received a package by courier containing three identical affidavits signed by their daughters, stating that they had converted to Islam of their own free will. The declaration concluded: “That since my parents are Hindu and after conversion of my religion, it is not possible for me to live and pass my life in Hindu system/society [sic] and therefore, I have decided to live separately...”
According to their affidavits, the girls (now calling themselves Afshan, Anam and Nida) were living in the hostel of the Madarsa Taleem-ul-Quran, and were being instructed by a local moulvi. On November 10, a court order directed the police and the administrators of the seminary to arrange a meeting between the girls and their parents.
When Sanno and Champa finally met their daughters, they were shocked to see that they were in burqas that concealed them from head to toe, leaving only their eyes uncovered. The eyes of the youngest girl were bloodshot from weeping. At this supposedly private meeting, a dour woman was present throughout as were a moulvi and a couple of cops. In subdued voices muffled by heavy fabric, the girls said they wanted to stay where they were.
Understandably, the parents are convinced that their daughters were under pressure. In fact, they simply cannot come to terms with the notion that their children have not only abandoned them, but also the faith they grew up in. As far as they are concerned, their daughters have been brainwashed. Interestingly, the girls have cited “religious channels on TV” as the reason for their conversion.
Since their daughters left, Sanno and Champa have not returned to their jobs. They stay at home with Suraj and Arti, their young son and daughter and wait for news. Apart from their neighbours, they have also been isolated by their own community. According to Sanno, other Hindus look down on them because of their girls’ apparent conversion. Face, that most pernicious of Asian values, has been lost.
I spoke to DSP Raza Shah and asked him if in his opinion, any pressure had been brought to bear on the girls. He was sure it had been a voluntary conversion, adding that it was very possible that neighbours might have influenced them. The parents are clear that their daughters never watched TV in their presence, nor did they ever discuss the possibility of a conversion. According to Vijay, a relative, twenty girls from the Hindu community had converted to Islam in the last five years.
Talking to the parents in their simple home, I could feel their pain and their distress. “We just sit and stare at each other”, Sanno said. “For us, life is over.” Above all, they want the certainty of the knowledge that their daughters did not abandon them voluntarily. They went back to the madressah recently where they were refused access to their daughters. “Even if they have become Muslims, we are still their parents,” Champa said tearfully. The moulvi at the madressah, instead of being sympathetic, invited Sammo and Champa to convert as well.
What the stricken parents are looking for is closure: once they are satisfied that their daughters will never come home again, they will learn to live with their grief. But for this to happen, they want the girls to be moved to neutral ground like the Edhi orphanage where they can meet them without the coercive presence of moulvis and cops. But this request has been turned down by a judge.
Vijay has shared the family’s tribulations, and is understandably bitter. “Mr Jinnah had promised the minorities equal rights and protection. But it seems his promises were buried with him,” he maintains. Given the spate of conversions, some voluntary, some forced, the insecurity among the minorities, especially among Sindhi Hindus, is understandable.
Even if most of these conversions are not at gunpoint, they still take place in an overpowering environment of religiosity. Religious programmes on every private and public TV channel must leave an imprint on young minds. The need to conform at school and college where religion casts a constant shadow, must exert a subtle influence on non-Muslim students. And in a society based on faith, the minorities have been marginalized to the point where they are tempted to convert simply to get ahead in life.
But Sammo and Champa are not concerned with the larger issues regarding the place and fate of the minorities in Pakistan. All they want is justice. For them this involves being able to spend time alone with their beloved daughters, free from pressure and coercion, and to satisfy themselves that they took this drastic step on their own. Surely in a state that aspires to General Musharraf’s oft-touted ideal of ‘enlightened moderation’, this should not be too much to ask for.
Geez! What do they want on there? Mohammed and 72 Virgins???
Well Putin, as they say, never spit into the wind.
Putin should of never been trusted...
Why is it that only Western Christian countries are considered "neither Muslim nor Christian" whereas all Middle Eastern countries (some like Lebanon where 40% of the population is Christian) are nevertheless considered fully Muslim, and not Christian at all no matter what the Christian population?
The Christian Community through-out Europe has abandoned the faith, I assume because they are afraid of radical muslims and there head being sawed off.
Russia is too far gonw down the demographic death spiral. As Steyn puts it, Russia's best hope of escaping from the dark clutches of islamist sharia rule in large swathes of its central asian landmass is a takeover of siberia by am expansioninst China hungry for resources...
You have to look really hard to find something Christian on there don't you? I guess the tiny crosses on the crowns and the image of St. George are considered "Christian" though the way the crosses are made they could be considered just decoration. "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar" quoting Freud.
sorry bud,
ain't that simple
have you noticed the support russia is giving Iran? The issue is greater than you imagine. If iran knocks of israel, europe with the support of russia THEN we are the next target. as you can see, they are already pushing europe and TELLING grandmother russia what to do. they already permeate the russian political system. look at the support in arms and technology they are getting. all the indicators are in thats why Irans nuts are draggin.
aint gonna happen here? look out!
That's OK, Ivan. We understand your plight.
We have the ACLU...
Bump
What about principle of reciprocity? One church open in Saudi Arabia = one mosque open in Russia, Europe or USA?
I would agree with you about Mohammed, but not about those virgins - they wouldn't find so many.
Ping
Actually, what they SHOULD be offended about is the presence of nonmuslims in what is obviously the 1,340,295,203,238,342th holiest site of Islam.
All Russians out of Russia now!
Unlucky for them they don't live here in PC land. I highly doubt the Russians will even think twice on it and if they push the issue it'll only turn out badly for the Islamics.
There isn't any way Russia or Putin are going to go along with this nonsense. This is but one example of those who do and do not know the Russians.
My suggestion to them is to move to France or NYC, which ever. The communists in both will be happy to work hand n foot with the Islamics to destroy Christianity. Hitlery might even take up Jihad.
That's right, the cross over the defeated cresent: Christianity defeat the Devil's Islam.
Muzzies can pound sand. The Russkies should put even more "Orthodox" symbols in their official regalia!
There is no peace with Islam but continous Jihad, just at different levels of intensity and strategy.
He got reelected. :0)
But this is good. The more the Islamics push, both in Russia and in Europe (France being the excellent example) the more nominally religious Christians in Russia will become stronger Christians and harder fighters for Christ....the direct reaction. Watch.
Sorry, you couldn't be further from reality. Why would we want a piece of Israel territory, 1000 miles distant from Russia and accessable only through Turkey of even Gibraltar?
We needn't Israel natural resources if any. We have enough on our territory
The thing about Iran and etc. is because of two reasons:
(1) A wish to play a certain role in international politics. The USA play same dangerous game with matches with Pakistan, already a nuclear country. So we do the same
(2) Money. Certain markets require certain political position. Our nuclear industry needed the Busheshr contract and they're worlking on it. Weapons also. Things are much worse in Russia now then in The USA, no secret to anyone. So we should use any means we'd not use I we were a bit more wealthy.
As long as we can fight off the ACLU. That's the ACLU's dream situation.
Bingo!
Maybe these jihadis have been listening to the buttheads over at CAIR?
These people remind me of the homosexual activists who demand absolute tolerance for themselves but are intolerant of all others.
Recommission the Cossacks and task them with a new pogrom.
CoatARms
Have you read in a history book why the US hasn´t thought like that about the Communists and Europe??
I think muslims have gone to far in their outrageous demands.==
I think too.
Tell the muslimes to pound sand.
It will be new country name as well. Russostan with capital in Moscobad? :-) Russia is already a member o some Islamic organizations. When will Putin finally dicredict himself and accept Islam? :)
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