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The truth about tipping
December 6, 2005 | George

Posted on 12/06/2005 12:33:26 PM PST by George14

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To: frogjerk

LOL! Great story!


51 posted on 12/06/2005 12:57:16 PM PST by saveliberty (The feed? Senator Ted thought it was part of the Big Dig. It's in the Esther Williams Tunnel now)
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To: mitchbert

They do include the gratuity. They now look for an additional tip.


52 posted on 12/06/2005 12:57:58 PM PST by saveliberty (The feed? Senator Ted thought it was part of the Big Dig. It's in the Esther Williams Tunnel now)
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To: George14

I tip 15% exclusively unless bad service prompts me to go down. I figure this is overly generous to what they deserve because almost all restaurants are staffed by college-age girls and they just have their boyfriends take them out (and spend their hard-earned cash tipping some other waitress which she wont spend when she's going out).

I tip generously when I'm out on the town, because that's part of the whole entertainment value, throwing money around likes its no object. Going to a restaurant is not entertainment, its a service. I order burger, you bring me burger, now get out of my face while i eat. I dont understand why people believe they deserve such lavish incomes for services people in other equivalent fields make mininum wage.


53 posted on 12/06/2005 12:58:53 PM PST by chudogg (www.chudogg.blogspot.com)
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To: steve-b; frogjerk

I had a waitress that ignored us for 30 minutes. We were about to leave and then she came by to apologize. But rather than continuing to follow up, she ignored us for another 30 minutes.

I left a tip - one penny. I wanted her to see that I did not forget. I felt it was a more effective statement than leaving nothing.


54 posted on 12/06/2005 1:00:00 PM PST by saveliberty (The feed? Senator Ted thought it was part of the Big Dig. It's in the Esther Williams Tunnel now)
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To: George14

I still don't understand why there is a tip cup at Dunkin' Donuts. They walk over to the rack, put the donut in the bag, and ring it up at the register. Why does that require a tip?


55 posted on 12/06/2005 1:00:29 PM PST by Born Conservative (Chronic Positivity: http://www.livejournal.com/users/jsher/)
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To: tfecw
Whiel I can't speak for the rest of Europe, tipping isn't customary in Germany.

Don't you round up the next Euro?

56 posted on 12/06/2005 1:00:46 PM PST by FreedomCalls (It's the "Statue of Liberty," not the "Statue of Security.")
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To: George14

ok.. lets see if we can educate this author- at least as it applies in MI. for starters, minimum wage for servers is $2.65. servers are required to report 8% of their sales as tips.. most make more. now, as far as basing their hourly wage on what they make in tips.. its actually very nice the way they do it. if, between your hourly wage and your tips, you don't average $5.15 for the pay period, the employer is required to make it up to you.
in most cases, tip pooling is bad, but some makes sense. tipping bussers and bartenders is common practice, even required in most restaurants/ bars. the reason? the same as why you tip your server. its a gratuity to insure prompt, correct and pleasant service. because as a bartender, who do you think is gonna come first? the stupid waitress that doesn't tip me, or the paying customer at the end of the bar? similar for bussing. whose table is gonna get cleaned first? the waitress who tips the busser or the one who thinks he's lowlife scum that's beneath her?


57 posted on 12/06/2005 1:01:03 PM PST by absolootezer0 ("My God, why have you forsaken us.. no wait, its the liberals that have forsaken you... my bad")
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To: wolfcreek
Your right, it unjustly lets employees who don't work as hard or properly do their jobs, benefit on an equal basis.

Very fair point, and why it's harder to do (and I think not advisable) in a larger establishment. My local pub is the first place I've seen attempt it to this degree but it only works because the owner insists everyone share the workload and everyone gets along. The staff are all happy with the situation and they work more like a team. It is a well run place, mind you with very hands on owners (that don't take tip money themselves when they're working).

58 posted on 12/06/2005 1:01:58 PM PST by mitchbert (Facts Are Stubborn Things .)
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To: wolfcreek
Tip pooling is despicable Your right, it unjustly lets employees who don't work as hard or properly do their jobs, benefit on an equal basis. I usually tip a little less in these cases.

You think people working on a team, with cash bonuses on the line, are going to put up with one of the team members slacking off? You think a person knowing that better service puts more money in his pocket is going to do a better or worse job? These aren't union workers getting paid scale to sit on their butts. This is pure capitalism. Results are rewarded instantly.

SD

59 posted on 12/06/2005 1:02:25 PM PST by SoothingDave
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To: HEY4QDEMS

Pierce Brosnan???

You know Sean Connery was the only REAL James Bond anyway.


60 posted on 12/06/2005 1:02:40 PM PST by Vaquero ("An armed society is a polite society" R. A. Heinlein)
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To: George14

In California, The waiters and waitresses still get minimum wage. Don't overtip them.


61 posted on 12/06/2005 1:02:41 PM PST by Liberate California ("Live Free or Die"" New Hampshire State Motto and "Silly Liberal, Paychecks are for Workers")
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To: Born Conservative

It doesn't. But I used to go to a coffee shop and the lady knew my order. She had my coffee ready just how I liked it as I walked up to the counter.

She earned her tips from me.


62 posted on 12/06/2005 1:03:21 PM PST by saveliberty (The feed? Senator Ted thought it was part of the Big Dig. It's in the Esther Williams Tunnel now)
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To: FreedomCalls

Not anymore


63 posted on 12/06/2005 1:03:50 PM PST by saveliberty (The feed? Senator Ted thought it was part of the Big Dig. It's in the Esther Williams Tunnel now)
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To: Vaquero

True , but it appears that ole Pierce tips about .007 percent.


64 posted on 12/06/2005 1:04:12 PM PST by HEY4QDEMS (Iraqis thank our troops more often than Democrats.)
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To: loreldan
"So are you saying that employers are allowed to takes tips from the server? I was a waiter through college (10 years ago) and my employer never even saw the tips I made. it was my choice how much I would tip the bus boy, hostess, etc. "

The article is a little confusing. I think what is being said is that because you get tips I don't have to pay you the minimum wage. So in affect because of the tips the business owner makes out because they can pay you less.

As far as the employer never saw the tips, things have changed since you were getting tips. Now what happens Is that the employer assumes you made at least 10% of your gross sales and the they tax you on that amount.

To be more clear if you get bad service and do not leave a tip, the waiter/waitress actually is paying more taxes and thus lost money on that table.

I would if I got really bad service, notify the manager, but would still leave a small tip to offset the automatic addition that they get. Then you most likely would get comp'ed and receive a free meal or desert.

65 posted on 12/06/2005 1:04:14 PM PST by Coffee_drinker (Since Bush became president, the taliban are gone, saddam is gone, Khadaffi is neutered, arafat died)
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To: George14
It is the customer's sole right to determine whether a tip is given, the amount and who will be the recipient of his tip. Such rights are not only guaranteed by our constitution …

Did I miss something, or is this right one of the “certain rights” covered by the IX Amendment?
66 posted on 12/06/2005 1:05:01 PM PST by R. Scott (Humanity i love you because when you're hard up you pawn your Intelligence to buy a drink.)
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To: ClearCase_guy
Tipping seems so European.

You don't tip in most of Europe. Service is included in the price.

67 posted on 12/06/2005 1:05:22 PM PST by antiRepublicrat
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To: SoothingDave
You think people working on a team, with cash bonuses on the line, are going to put up with one of the team members slacking off?

It can work if the owners are on top of their operation, and it helps if those were the rules when the employee starts day one. If there's poor management or absent ownership someone who works harder will often get hosed. All I know is that since this practice has started it's worked really well for both the staff and the customers.

68 posted on 12/06/2005 1:05:41 PM PST by mitchbert (Facts Are Stubborn Things .)
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To: Born Conservative
I still don't understand why there is a tip cup at Dunkin' Donuts. They walk over to the rack, put the donut in the bag, and ring it up at the register. Why does that require a tip? they have one in the bagel place I frequent Sunday mornings. I use it to get rid of pocket change. I hate pocket change. If I am at the supermarket buying $2.01 worth of whatever, I will whip out my AMEX card rather than carry a bucks worth of change around with me.
69 posted on 12/06/2005 1:06:04 PM PST by Vaquero ("An armed society is a polite society" R. A. Heinlein)
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To: dollar_dog
Also, FYI, if you don't tip at least 12.5%, you are seriously screwing the waiter, because the IRS taxes him/her based on them receiving a 12.5% tip per meal.

I'm sorry, but if I tip the waiter less than 12/5%, then he's screwed himself. I've always considered myself a generous tipper... 15-20% for adequate service, more if it was better than adequate... but service seems to decrease in quality all the time.

I don't expect anyone to bow down and KMA, but courteous and prompt service provided by a person who seems to care about the job he's doing... it's becoming more rare.

When I do get a good waiter/waitress, they can count on being rewarded. It is grossly unfair that a good waiter should have to share his tip with someone who wouldn't rate a tip at all from me.

70 posted on 12/06/2005 1:06:40 PM PST by TontoKowalski
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To: FreedomCalls
"Don't you round up the next Euro?"

It was still DM last I was there ;). The service was included in the bill. The German family I would go out with didn't really tip unless the server was extra helpful with menu choices, finding a drink, or did something along those lines
71 posted on 12/06/2005 1:07:19 PM PST by tfecw (It's for the children)
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To: George14

This reminds me of the latest Stephen King mystery novel, where the guy officially tipped stingy, but slid good money in the waitress' pocket, so she wouldn't get screwed.


72 posted on 12/06/2005 1:07:32 PM PST by antiRepublicrat
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To: antiRepublicrat
not trying to be racial..Just an observation..I am sure this is NOT universal..BUT whenever I go to eat with coworkers of African descent, they don't tip. I don't push it. I tip or split it with whoever is going to split it with me.
73 posted on 12/06/2005 1:09:40 PM PST by Vaquero ("An armed society is a polite society" R. A. Heinlein)
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To: tfecw

LOL LOL LOL!

I should just simmer down. :-)

They do tip (10%) now even though there is a gratuity included.


74 posted on 12/06/2005 1:10:10 PM PST by saveliberty (The feed? Senator Ted thought it was part of the Big Dig. It's in the Esther Williams Tunnel now)
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To: frogjerk
I told the cabbie to step on it and there would be an extra tip in it for him. He made it to my car in unbelievable time and I gave the guy a $50 tip.

On my last return from Viet Nam I found myself coming out of a bar in Oakland to see the sun rising. My luggage was in a San Francisco hotel. I flagged down a Veterans Cab and told him if he could make it to my hotel, pick up the bags and still get to San Francisco International on time for my early morning flight it would be worth $50. This was in 1968.
He hauled butt – taking the wrong level on the bridge (against traffic) because it was quicker. My bags were at the curb. I made the flight.
75 posted on 12/06/2005 1:12:21 PM PST by R. Scott (Humanity i love you because when you're hard up you pawn your Intelligence to buy a drink.)
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To: George14
The truth is, business owners are using the customer's tips which undeniably and indisputably are not intended for the business owner for the business's own interests. Such business practices are being allowed by our government even though such business practices are an illegal dominion over the customer's property. To put it simply, businesses are being allowed to steal the money customers present as tips. Now, the public is being expected to tip more because the workers are not receiving the financial benefits of the tips they have been presented.

AWESOME analysis!! Hands down!

76 posted on 12/06/2005 1:12:52 PM PST by mosquitobite (As the Iraqis stand up, we will stand down.)
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To: R. Scott
Did I miss something, or is this right one of the “certain rights” covered by the IX Amendment?

It's a penumbra of an emanation.

SD

77 posted on 12/06/2005 1:13:38 PM PST by SoothingDave
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To: George14
The largest thing I had against Bob Dole was that he went along with the tax act of 1986 (?) that forced restaurants and others that had tips proffered by customers to pay a tax on over 8% of their sales as though that was "tip income."

This is unconstitutional because it is a tax on income that may or may not even exist but for the discretion of the customer.

Dole was just a facilitator for the democRATs in a lot of issues.

78 posted on 12/06/2005 1:14:24 PM PST by nightdriver
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To: R. Scott

Wow. I am glad that you made it.


79 posted on 12/06/2005 1:14:41 PM PST by saveliberty (The feed? Senator Ted thought it was part of the Big Dig. It's in the Esther Williams Tunnel now)
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To: saveliberty
They do include the gratuity. They now look for an additional tip

I haven't been there since 1996 but will probably go back for holidays next summer (I have a close friend in Germany).

Thanks for the heads up.

80 posted on 12/06/2005 1:16:03 PM PST by mitchbert (Facts Are Stubborn Things .)
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To: FreedomCalls
Don't you round up the next Euro?

Yes, you basically say "Stimmt so.", which means "Keep the change." If you're really generous, you give, say, a 50 Euro bill for a 45 Euro meal and still say it. However, "Stimmt so" is not expected of patrons as tips are here. You will get no dirty looks for not doing it.

Rounding to the Euro is done regularly, and is seen as much as a convenience for both patron and waiter (not bothering with change) as it is a gratuity. Rounding to give the waiter several Euros is a bit rare, and you do it for exceptional service, usually on a special occasion.

81 posted on 12/06/2005 1:17:16 PM PST by antiRepublicrat
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To: George14
What is the problem with paying all employees a decent wage, and eliminating tipping all together?

It just seems to me every one has their hand out. I hate seeing the tipping jar at Subway sandwich shops.

82 posted on 12/06/2005 1:18:35 PM PST by rawhide
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To: HEY4QDEMS

I'm surprised that no one's mentioned the Hillary! tipping incident.

Hillary received a free breakfast once, I think while she was campaigning, and she didn't give her waitress a tip.

She certainly has that Marxist help-the-working people attitude down.


83 posted on 12/06/2005 1:18:36 PM PST by JillValentine (A government that wants to ride in and save the day must be small enough not to crush the horse.)
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To: Coffee_drinker; loreldan; George14
No, what he's saying is correct.

In the restaurant I worked, at the end of the night you went to the office to "tip out". They make you give a certain % of your food SALES towards bus-boys, hostesses, etc.

I see the reason behind the practice. If a bus-boy or hostess does a good job they indeed do affect a server's tips. The issue is, the customer is not tipping the bus-boy/hostess. They are tipping the server - period.

What has happened is restaurants are able to pay the non-tipped employees less based on the server's tips. Instead of a server voluntarily sharing some of their tips with the help that does indeed HELP, you have it mandatory by management. The management collects a % from each server then equally distributes it between the various help.

It is socialist to the core.

84 posted on 12/06/2005 1:18:39 PM PST by mosquitobite (As the Iraqis stand up, we will stand down.)
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To: mitchbert

:-) You're welcome!

I went to the South and they were very American friendly.


85 posted on 12/06/2005 1:18:47 PM PST by saveliberty (The feed? Senator Ted thought it was part of the Big Dig. It's in the Esther Williams Tunnel now)
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To: George14

I think lots of shared tips go to busboys who clean tables for the server, people who make the salads for them, people who help deliver their orders. I don't think tip sharing is in itself evil, but then again, salaried people in management shouldn't get part of the tip. That's what customers give their server for the value of the service, not part of the food bill. I usually am a big tipper because I'm usually out with grandkids who are not as neat as they will be in years in the future. We clean up what we can, but it's easier after ourselves are out of the way of course. So, tipping well then is in order.


86 posted on 12/06/2005 1:19:13 PM PST by vharlow (http://www.vventures.net)
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To: saveliberty

I was more fearful on that cab ride than at any time on either combat tour.


87 posted on 12/06/2005 1:19:38 PM PST by R. Scott (Humanity i love you because when you're hard up you pawn your Intelligence to buy a drink.)
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To: TontoKowalski
I'm sorry, but if I tip the waiter less than 12/5%, then he's screwed himself. I've always considered myself a generous tipper... 15-20% for adequate service, more if it was better than adequate... but service seems to decrease in quality all the time.

When a practice such as the one George14 described is in place in a restaurant (socialism) what is the incentive to work hard? You're taxed on 8% of food sales no matter what, 1-3% goes to hired help, etc...

88 posted on 12/06/2005 1:20:37 PM PST by mosquitobite (As the Iraqis stand up, we will stand down.)
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To: antiRepublicrat

Sigh.

Tipping in Germany is regular and expected. I just came back. I didn't realize that the rounding up was gone, but it is.

Yes there's a gratuity included, but the practice is an additional 10%. I am trying to be helpful for those who will have occasion to travel.

PS Stimmt so literally means "That's true". In one context, it can mean that you and the waiter are all set. In another, we could read it that the writer is confirming that what was written is accurate :-)


89 posted on 12/06/2005 1:21:53 PM PST by saveliberty (The feed? Senator Ted thought it was part of the Big Dig. It's in the Esther Williams Tunnel now)
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To: HEY4QDEMS
It's funny how public perceptions of celebrities are often far different than they are in real life.

Dennis Miller shows up a couple of times and appears to be quite an @sshole, while Rosie O'Donnell consistently leaves a 100% tip (but only signs autographs for kids!).

90 posted on 12/06/2005 1:22:10 PM PST by Alberta's Child (What it all boils down to is that no one's really got it figured out just yet.)
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To: JillValentine
Hillary received a free breakfast once,............., and she didn't give her waitress a tip.

If you ask her, she tipped 50%
91 posted on 12/06/2005 1:22:27 PM PST by HEY4QDEMS (Iraqis thank our troops more often than Democrats.)
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To: SoothingDave
It's a penumbra of an emanation.

Obfuscation works for some people. Look at the number of “rights” we now have as constitutional guarantees.
92 posted on 12/06/2005 1:22:39 PM PST by R. Scott (Humanity i love you because when you're hard up you pawn your Intelligence to buy a drink.)
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To: saveliberty

Agreed. He and his wife live just outside of Munich. You're spot on when compared to the North (I'm Canukistanian but with a Southern Ontario voice get taken as American in most places, and no problems ever, and I don't generally see a need to bother correcting anyone).


93 posted on 12/06/2005 1:22:49 PM PST by mitchbert (Facts Are Stubborn Things .)
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To: R. Scott

I can't even imagine what that ride was like. Again I am glad that you made it!

I also would like to thank you for your service. God Bless you and your family! :-)


94 posted on 12/06/2005 1:23:02 PM PST by saveliberty (The feed? Senator Ted thought it was part of the Big Dig. It's in the Esther Williams Tunnel now)
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To: HEY4QDEMS

It made the papers. She had even had second helpings. She couldn't get out of that one, but it passed quickly.


95 posted on 12/06/2005 1:23:56 PM PST by saveliberty (The feed? Senator Ted thought it was part of the Big Dig. It's in the Esther Williams Tunnel now)
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To: ClearCase_guy

Actually tipping is uncommon in Europe. The gratuity is usually built into the price of the meal or service. A huge faux pas is to leave a tip for a bartende in England or Scotland. Didn't see tipping in Germany and Austria either.


96 posted on 12/06/2005 1:23:57 PM PST by PaForBush
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To: mosquitobite
I see the reason behind the practice. If a bus-boy or hostess does a good job they indeed do affect a server's tips. The issue is, the customer is not tipping the bus-boy/hostess. They are tipping the server - period.

You can read minds? Do you really think most people care if the waitress has to share her tips with the rest of the staff that helps her provide the service to you?

I think the question is whether people are paying extra for good service from one person, or if they are paying extra for good service period.

SD

97 posted on 12/06/2005 1:24:08 PM PST by SoothingDave
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To: George14
When I was in high school, I worked at Farrell's Ice Cream Parlour to earn money to go to the prom, purchase a year book and attend the senior dinner. I paid for the senior dinner, but my car failed the day of the dinner and preventing me from attending.

I worked for $1.30/hr plus tips as a waiter when minimum wage was $1.65. I also washed dishes for $1.45, cooked for $1.55 and worked the fountain for $1.65. The manager routinely took half my tips and distributed them to the busboys. Even more egregious was when I handled a party of 120 people. I received zero assistance from anyone until the last two plates needed to be cleared. Another waiter walked in and picked them up. The manager forced me to split the $5 tip with a guy whose only contribution was picking up two plates after the whole show was over. That same manager wouldn't give me the day off from washing dishes to participate in the once in a lifetime "Flight of the Eagles" sponsored by PSA in San Diego. A different manager routinely punched my timecard out early to "improve" his financial results. He sorry butt is in prison today for more serious crimes.

Frankly, I think the whole "tip splitting" behavior is an outrageous intrusion on the issue of tipping a server. I have no problem reporting the amount of tips as taxable income, but being forced to "share" tips with people who had no part in the service to the customer is ridiculous.

98 posted on 12/06/2005 1:24:33 PM PST by Myrddin
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To: Alberta's Child

I think Rosie follows the Pat Cooper philosophy, that is to always tip well as thanks for the cushy living we make.


99 posted on 12/06/2005 1:24:53 PM PST by HEY4QDEMS (Iraqis thank our troops more often than Democrats.)
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To: absolootezer0
its a gratuity to insure prompt, correct and pleasant service. because as a bartender, who do you think is gonna come first? the stupid waitress that doesn't tip me, or the paying customer at the end of the bar? similar for bussing. whose table is gonna get cleaned first? the waitress who tips the busser or the one who thinks he's lowlife scum that's beneath her?

Exactly the reason top pooling shouldn't be allowed. ALLOW failure. If the waitress doesn't tip, and doesn't get good "help" from the others, she's not going to make good money and thus how long do you think she'll be in the server business? Probably not long.

Now, on the other hand, I can see why a MANAGER of a restaurant would not want this to happen as it is the customer who suffers.

The solution is not tip pooling though, it's to fire or shift the bad servers. *shrug*

100 posted on 12/06/2005 1:25:08 PM PST by mosquitobite (As the Iraqis stand up, we will stand down.)
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