Skip to comments.Most dangerous city?
Posted on 12/07/2005 10:53:13 PM PST by texasguitarslim
MSNBC.com Most dangerous city? Ranking says Camden N.J. city's mayor blasts report; "We're doing so many nice things now"
The Associated Press Updated: 9:24 a.m. ET Nov. 21, 2005
CAMDEN, N.J. - For the second year in a row, this destitute city has been named the nation's most dangerous, according to a company's annual ranking based on crime statistics.
Last year, the distinction seemed to hurt city boosters' feelings more than it harmed revitalization efforts. This time, city leaders are offended by the ranking, calling it unfair.
"We're doing so many nice things now. It's unfortunate that somebody always wants to bad-mouth Camden," Mayor Gwendolyn Faison said.
The city took the top spot last year from Detroit, which remained No. 2 in the most dangerous city rankings, to be released Monday....
(Excerpt) Read more at msnbc.msn.com ...
It's too bad that Mayor Gwendolyn Faison thinks people are trying to "bad mouth Camden." I just want to bad mouth the writer. "The city's aquarium doubled in size and a new library and technology center were built. Tourism continues to increase along the river, home to the aquarium, an amphitheater, a minor-league baseball park and a retired battleship." Wow! And the police are using computers to solve crimes.
Why is the crime rate so high in Camden and the other cities listed? "By most measures, it is also among the nation's poorest." That must be it.
Here are some boring statistics courtesy of the 2000 Census. I will list each city from the AP's top and bottom ten then show some percentages of the population by race (not that race could have anything to do with high or low crime rates).
Camden (53.3% black 16.8% white); Detroit (81.6% black 12.3% white); St. Louis (51.2% black 43.8% white); Flint (53.3% black 41.4% white); Richmond (57.2% black 38.3% white); Baltimore (64.3% black 31.6% white); Atlanta (61.4% black 33.2% white); New Orleans (67.3% black 28.1% white); Gary (84% black 11.9% white); and Birmingham (73.5% black 24.1% white).
The safest cities listed are: Newton, Mass.; Clarkstown, N.Y.; Amherst, N.Y.; Mission Viejo, Calif.; Brick Township, N.J.; Troy, Mich.; Thousand Oaks, Calif.; Round Rock, Texas; Lake Forest, Calif.; and Cary, N.C. The respective percentage of population that is white is 88, 79.9, 89.3, 83.2, 93.8, 82.3, 85.1, 76.8, 76, and 82.2.
Again, I'm not saying that race is or is not a cause of crime but I think it is a crime when a news organization eliminates facts from a news story or does not look for the facts in the first place.
The problem with Camden must be the 29.9% of the population from Mars.
I was born and raised in NJ.....and as soon as I was raised had the good sense to spend the next 30 years in Alaska and never go back. One thing I thought of when hearing this story was how even 20 years ago Camden NJ was referred to as the "Plywood covered storefront capital of America". What a dump, but then sop is the rest of the state.
You are pointing out statistical fact that will none the less not endear you to many here. Some folks would prefer not to talk about this.
Personally, I like statistical facts. Even if the facts are not what I want to see, hear, observe. Facts are facts. Some folks live in a dream world, others prefer not to; and like to deal with reality.
How dare we call them dangerous, they wrote a childrens book
I'm with you but some here get really loud when this is pointed out and some folks get nervous
and ..well....you know the rest
Looked at other ways, you could say that "danger" is directly linked to poverty, educational standards, etc. Also, if you look closely at the list, you'll note that all those cities are declining "smoke stack" cities the white population fled in search of jobs or lifted their kids out of the blue collar life.
If it's about poverty then why aren't the worst murder rates in Appalachia?
African Americans commit more crimes per person than other groups. That is a fact.
Not only that, if you watch your local news and they show an arrest for a crime, ask for help in locating a criminal caught on tape, or show a court room conviction for a crime, more often than not, that person is an african american.
Even in prosperous areas like Silicon Valley near Palo Alto, the most dangerous areas are the ones populated by african americans.
Maybe it is because no matter who you kill, you would be killing a relative ? Just kidding.
It's not just about poverty, but also geography etc. Appalachia doesn't have the population density that urban areas have. However, I'm not an expert on Appalachia. But I have been in impoverished sections of rural communities that were just as dangerous as urban areas with alot of the same pathologies, i.e. drugs, out of wedlock births, and low educational standards.
Racist...your dwelling upon fact is very disturbing.
You must report to the re-education camp immediatley...
I can tell you that I feel much safer in Harlem than some trailer parks I've been in. Though that might be because I know Harlem pretty well (at least where to eat) and not very many trailer parks.
actually...I blame a culture of serial illegitimacy and young men raised w/o a decent male lead
the rural South where I grew up was very black in the Delta for example but the danger rate was very low. i never feared black communities much down here until very recently, but i knew 30 years ago that parts of NYC or DC were hostile to crackers who talked funny....like me
i think Southern blacks who moved North en masse between the world wars and did not all find the dream they had hoped for got bogged down and picked up bad urban habits they had eschewed in a moral rural setting
Atlanta, Richmond and NOLA are not smokestack cities but those rustbelt cities already have crime reputations going back even to before the Great Society. And it all really picked up steam with the 60s race riots.
i think the poverty is a symptom of a broken culture as much as the murder rate is
and I don't have the answers aside from hoping they all miraculously adopt the nuclear family ideal but I'm not hopeful since serial illegitimacy seems to have spread over the entire American culture...and the West for that matter
Amen to those who pull themselves up and get out....I know it's not easy
folks with a strong sense of a patriarchial family can weather poverty and prevail and behave responsibly....my own ancestors did....and so did most black families too
I'm not Appalachian lol
I'm Mississippian and never married a cousin but I did have a few that were FINE.
It is not race or poverty that causes crime. It is culture period...
I agree that being poor in an urban crowded environment is worse. Maybe it's psychological.
I would prefer to be poor rurally no doubt....I think, though it could mean a lot of walking versus public trans.
But this conversation makes me remember first visiting Compton back in 87 or so. I expected serious ghetto like the South Bronx or Cabrini Green.
Instead, it looked like where I grew up. Lower middle class blue collar looking 1000-1500 sq foot faux prairie or stucco or craftsmen homes
A lot of black folks who moved North between the wars and even as late as the 50s/60s really got screwed over, by blacks and whites. If you talk to old black people up in Harlem they have nothing but disdain for the southern blacks who moved north (attitude similar to Okies in California).
p.s. -- I love southern cooking, Harlem is the last place to get the real thing in NYC.
Are you saying black culture is in trouble....at least the crime commiting part of it?
I agree with you, but not about Camden. As a resident of the Great State of New Jersey, I say that the reason is Camden happens to sit on a gateway to hell. It's true, look it up in Encyclopedia Brittanica under "Famous Portals to Hell - A to D"
The aquarium is nice, but you need a Fallujah-like convoy to get there or else you'll be hit with IEDs, insurgient ambushes, and carjackings. Oh yea, if you let your kids play with abandoned cars, it's the Police's fault that they die in the trunk.
The ghettos in L.A. are very deceptive. I try to visit the Watts Towers whenever I'm there and the place just gives me the willies. Looks like suburbia, but very dangerous.
You're dead on. I've encountered many black families -- city employees mostly -- who have bought land "down south" with plans to retire down there. They moved "up north" as children and want to return.
i lived at 115 and morningside....on my stoop is where that off duty cop shot the Exeter scholarship kid from down on the flats who had come up near CU to mug someone for money to go to a movie while he was home for the weekend from Exeter
he and his brother made the mistake of mugging an off duty cop...it was big news around 1984...long ago now
i looked on googlearth the other day and all that has been gobbled up by CU....used to be brownstone grad student housing....not sure what it is now, but looks new
i used to go to that quaint Italian joint in east Harlem where all the bent noses and celebs went(?)
The restaurant: Raos? On 114?
Harlem is undergoing a revitalization. You can't touch a brownstone there for under a million. And a lot of the old mansions on Sugar Hill have been snapped up and completely renovated. The downside is that a lot of small businesses are getting pushed out by escalating rents.
Atlanta I believe if I am not mistaken the largest black middle class in the country.
Rao's. Overrated, impossible to get a table. There is a great Italian bakery on 116th street, however.
I know I will get flamed for saying it but I much more enjoy the company of black men and women who act like me.
Me when I'm behaving....not when I'm acting like the Credit Card commercial Visigoth.
But hiw can one say what I just said without sounding arrogant?
my wife and I comment frequently when we meet someone black and have instant rapport....as opposed to walking into a government building and getting the old black lady Alfie Woodard staredown...which no amount of chatting up will help....you know the main reason is communication rapport and commonality
From what I understand, most of the black middle class are in the area south of Atlanta proper, not in the city itself.
whoops..sorry about the bent-nose comment gumbatta.
i expect inbred incoming..lol
If poverty is directly linked to crime, I'd like to know why there wasn't so much more crime during the 1930s era of the Great Depression. Given the poverty of that decade, shouldn't the entire country have been swallowed up by crime?
As far as I'm concerned, it's the eternal welfare system that keeps people in poverty and prevents them from bettering themselves, as well as the ongoing victimization of poor Blacks and Whites that convinces them they are owed something for nothing. Add to that parents that just don't give a damn about their kids any more.
BTW: Of course, many Freepers believe that the only places with crime are where the "illegals" are. Not too many illegals in Gary, Camden, or St. Louis.
Best Italian bakeries are on Arthur Avenue -- though keep the cab waiting while you run inside to get the calzones.
Wow...some folks were just beginning to nab brownstones in Inwood and around Columbia-Pres and also that high point around 150th and St Nicholas (?)
To be honest with you, the only southerners I ever encoutered who resembled the inbred/peckerwood stereotype were the folks I used to see while traveling in North Florida. Most of the folks on the Mississippi Gulf Coast seemed OK genetically. Suprisingly large number of Paddy Whackers too.
Yes most of the middle class tend to be South and East of the city.
I would not doubt that and like most folks who can they live North, West and East.
I've actually thought about the whole crime/drugs/out of wedlock births -- fall of civilization thing -- a lot. The only conclusion I've come to is very "squishy" and unquantifiable. That is, if a guy believes that tomorrow is gonna be even marginally better than today, then he's less likely to engage in criminal activity than a guy who believes that tomorrow is gonna be the same old, same old or a little worse.
Happy to see, btw, that my dad's hometown of Newark in no longer in the top 10. I think the reason is that 1. Alot of thugs were killed in the crack wars 2. Those displaced by the demolition of the projects went to the Oranges or, more likely, moved down South. and 3. The fastest growing places in Newark population-wise are the Ironbound and North Newark. The Brazilians and Ecuadorians moving there are too busy working to become an "underclass."
I first hear that term bent-nose from some friends of made guys out at Long Beach LI....a long time ago.
Everytime I see the Sopranos I think about that.
Want to hear something that will blow your socks off -- they built a marina in Port Elizabeth. There are pleasure boats docked in the arthur kill.
That 29.9% are largely descendents of the Puerto Ricans who came up in the 1940s and 1950s.
Camden is directly across the river from Philly - - they may as well be twin cities like Minneapolis-St. Paul. I would bet there's a significant backwash in both directions.
I believe the cities with the highest crime rates in New Jersey are Camden, Bridgeton, Irvington, East Orange, Orange, Plainfield, Paterson, and Newark.
All those cities got hit hard by de-industrialization.
As hard as it is for some folks to believe today, Irvington was considered a "step up" from Ironbound when my dad's aunts and uncles moved there in the 1950s/early 60s. You look at photos of East Orange and Irvington in the 1950s and it looks like Montclair today, thriving downtowns, nice houses, restaurants, etc.