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Stop blurring the lines between maniac & martyr (Tookie)
NY Daily News ^ | 12-08-2005 | Stanley Crouch

Posted on 12/08/2005 5:47:25 AM PST by AliVeritas

Tonight in California, Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger is going to have a closed meeting with those trying to get Stanley (Tookie) Williams clemency and those in law enforcement who want Williams to meet his end on Tuesday. Williams, who was sentenced to death after being found guilty of murdering four people in 1979, has the dubious honor of being one of the founders of the vicious street gang, the Crips.

Still, Williams is being held up as an example of redemption because he has supposedly turned his life around. He has written children's books that speak out against gang violence. But the actor and writer Joseph Phillips discovered that the highest selling children's book written by Williams has sold only 330 copies. Not exactly a universal audience. The murderer has been nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize five times. But almost anyone can nominate you. That does not prove universal acknowledgment of importance.

(Excerpt) Read more at nydailynews.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; Government; News/Current Events; US: California
KEYWORDS: stanleywilliams; tookiewilliams

1 posted on 12/08/2005 5:47:26 AM PST by AliVeritas
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To: AliVeritas; doug from upland

I do my best work early in the morning.

2 posted on 12/08/2005 5:50:18 AM PST by martin_fierro (< |:)~)
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To: AliVeritas

Adios, Tookie.


3 posted on 12/08/2005 5:51:25 AM PST by tgusa (Gun control: deep breath, sight alignment, squeeze the trigger .....)
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To: AliVeritas
The article mentions that since 1980, street gangs have killed 10,000 people in LA. That is a horrific statistic.

And I wonder where the MSM has been? Why no nightly news special on the 500th, 1000th, 2000th...deaths?

4 posted on 12/08/2005 5:51:46 AM PST by mewzilla (Property must be secured or liberty cannot exist. John Adams)
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To: AliVeritas
A figurative and literal human piece of trash. You know we do with trash. Stanley Williams shouldn't be treated any differently. Its time for him to be cleaned off this planet.

(Denny Crane: "I Don't Want To Socialize With A Pinko Liberal Democrat Commie.Say What You Like About Republicans. We Stick To Our Convictions. Even When We Know We're Dead Wrong.")

5 posted on 12/08/2005 5:52:12 AM PST by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: AliVeritas

How long does it take to cook a Christmas "Tookie"?

Oh that's right they are going to gas him - Hmmm Ok then:

How long does it take to "pass" a gassed Christmas Tookie?


6 posted on 12/08/2005 5:54:33 AM PST by kentj
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To: AliVeritas
Tookie, baby, you're gonna take a journey on a gurney.

Good riddance, you murdering POS.

7 posted on 12/08/2005 5:55:45 AM PST by OldSmaj (Hey Islam...I flushed a koran today and I let my dog pp on it first. Come get me, moon bats!)
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To: AliVeritas
Took, Took, Tookie must die! Took, Took, Tookie don't cry!

Or if you prefer...

No Christmas Cookie for Tookie!

8 posted on 12/08/2005 5:59:02 AM PST by Rummyfan
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To: AliVeritas

I will be very surprised if Schwarzenegger does not commute Williams' sentence. Schwarzenegger is no conservative and as a member of the Hollywood elite, I am sure he will not want to offend his peers. Or more importantly, his wife and in-laws.


9 posted on 12/08/2005 5:59:09 AM PST by Long Distance Rider
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To: kentj

Lethal injection..... I don't care how they do it as long as it's done!


10 posted on 12/08/2005 6:00:22 AM PST by Rummyfan
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To: mewzilla
Stanley Crouch is disgusted at the excuses and apologies made for black murderers. Never mind they've murdered innocent people; they're still our SOBs. That's what passes for moral judgment among the leaders of the black community. The Race Card TM can always come in handy to let murderers, if they happen to be black, out of a jam.

(Denny Crane: "I Don't Want To Socialize With A Pinko Liberal Democrat Commie.Say What You Like About Republicans. We Stick To Our Convictions. Even When We Know We're Dead Wrong.")

11 posted on 12/08/2005 6:00:31 AM PST by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: AliVeritas

The death penalty is for people like Tookie,a career criminal and a sociopath.He shot 4 people in cold blood,and to this day he refuses to admit his guilt.


12 posted on 12/08/2005 6:01:12 AM PST by Thombo2
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To: Long Distance Rider

If Ah-nuld grants clemency his political career is over and I'm sure he's well aware of that. I think he is just giving the Tookie-symps lip service and will do nothing to stop the execution on Monday night / Tuesday morning.


13 posted on 12/08/2005 6:02:06 AM PST by Rummyfan
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To: goldstategop

I think Stanley Crouch is a good egg. I'm just wondering why the same MSM that reports every death in Iraq from homicide bombings ignores the homicides going on in LA.


14 posted on 12/08/2005 6:03:45 AM PST by mewzilla (Property must be secured or liberty cannot exist. John Adams)
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To: AliVeritas
Still, Williams is being held up as an example of redemption because he has supposedly turned his life around. He has written children's books that speak out against gang violence.

John Wayne Gacy was a clown who made children laugh.

Tookie deserves to die. I don't care about his childrens' books. There are some things in life that just saying "I'm sorry" doesn't get you out of. Like justice for multiple murder.

15 posted on 12/08/2005 6:04:16 AM PST by Kenton (To my friends who celebrate Jesus' birth, Merry Christmas. To the rest of you, have a nice day off.)
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To: Rummyfan

I hope you're right.

Because Arnie -- no rock-ribbed Conservative to begin with -- has been making some disquieting sops to the Left recently.


16 posted on 12/08/2005 6:04:48 AM PST by martin_fierro (< |:)~)
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To: AliVeritas
The store clerk, the motel owner and his family, these people do not matter. They are little people. If they had not been lucky enough to be killed by Tooke Williams, nobody would have ever heard of them. They would have lived and died in obscurity without feeling even the reflected warmth of International Celebrity.

Tookie Williams, however, is a Major Figure. A Celebrity in his own right with counter-cultural cachet to spare. He is an Intellectual in that he not only reads books, he has written one as well. He is ready to take his rightful place in The Pantheon of the Fabulous if only Arnold Schwarzenegger, a fellow Celebrity and also governor of the state of california, would see fit to spare his life.

17 posted on 12/08/2005 6:06:40 AM PST by gridlock (eliminate perverse incentives)
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To: Rummyfan

Morning Rummyfan,
They should excute tookie and the hollywood rejects, who oppose his well deserved termination of breathing our oxygen.

Do What Must Be Done,
NSNR-FATD&S


18 posted on 12/08/2005 6:07:05 AM PST by No Surrender No Retreat
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To: AliVeritas

The irony is that since he's trying to portray himself as a paragon of "Don't do what I did" teachings, what better way to prove his point then going through with the execution? Wouldn't that be the ultimate example of what could happen to a kid who follows down the same path?


19 posted on 12/08/2005 6:08:42 AM PST by mslee
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To: mewzilla

That's right...no one wants Tookie's "illegal war"...

LOL /sarc! FRY THE BA^$(%*! I hope he long burns in hell too, for his crimes.


20 posted on 12/08/2005 6:09:24 AM PST by goresalooza (Nurses Rock!)
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To: Long Distance Rider
I will be very surprised if Schwarzenegger does not commute Williams' sentence. Schwarzenegger is no conservative and as a member of the Hollywood elite, I am sure he will not want to offend his peers. Or more importantly, his wife and in-laws.

This is a very important decision politically for him.
I hope he makes the right one.
Tookie must pay for the four brutal, cold-blooded murders. He hasn't shown ONE ounce of remorse or regret. He's still the same enraged asshole he was years ago. He's just learned to use racial politics.

21 posted on 12/08/2005 6:12:11 AM PST by starfish923
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To: AliVeritas
"The murderer has been nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize five times. But almost anyone can nominate you. That does not prove universal acknowledgment of importance."

WINNING the nobel peace prize doesnt prove importance either. Look at Yasar Arafat and Jimmy Carter.

22 posted on 12/08/2005 6:14:56 AM PST by GregoTX (The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.)
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To: goresalooza

I agree 100 percent! Tookie should get the same treatment as the three who shot my cousin (a game ranger) at a traffic stop 30 years back. They took off running, a manhunt was organized and their bodies were found the next morning, full of bullet holes. The coroner's verdict was all three had committed suicide! Three cheers for justice!


23 posted on 12/08/2005 6:17:38 AM PST by daddypatriot
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To: mslee
"Don't do what I did" teachings


Has he ever expressed remorse for his crimes, or even admitted to them? Most of the statements from him that I have seen have that "Don't do what The Man says I did" feel to them.
24 posted on 12/08/2005 6:18:11 AM PST by P-40 (http://www.590klbj.com/forum/index.php?referrerid=1854)
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To: P-40

Not specifically for the murders but he certainly has taken "responsiblity" (aka credit) for the creation of his murderous gang.


25 posted on 12/08/2005 6:21:51 AM PST by mslee
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To: mewzilla
The article mentions that since 1980, street gangs have killed 10,000 people in LA. That is a horrific statistic. And I wonder where the MSM has been? Why no nightly news special on the 500th, 1000th, 2000th...deaths?

Thank you. Your comment would be a great tagline... I would love to see someone in the MSM solemnly intoning the names of those killed by gang violence. Calling ABC, CBS, NBC and FOX.

26 posted on 12/08/2005 6:25:27 AM PST by GOPJ ("Protests at a funerals are a new low for the left. I am sickened by this" FormerMilitaryChick)
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To: AliVeritas
"DEAD MAN WALKING"

The media seems to be trying to make this about Gov. Schwarzenegger. It's not. All the Governor has to do is,

DO NOTHING, let justice prevail.....
27 posted on 12/08/2005 6:30:48 AM PST by SR 50 (Larry)
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To: mslee
what better way to prove his point then going through with the execution? Wouldn't that be the ultimate example of what could happen to a kid who follows down the same path?

Point on! The amazing thing is how big a coward this guy and thousands like him are when it comes time to be killed for having killed others who were unarmed and innocent. You would think that having lived by the sword - he would be willing to die by the sword. Tookie = coward punk!

28 posted on 12/08/2005 6:31:14 AM PST by winston2 (Life, Liberty, and Pursuit of Happiness! :-)
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To: winston2

I agree 100%. This should have been finished about 25 years ago. The longer you keep a convicted murderer on death row, the more BS comes up trying to off set the conviction.


29 posted on 12/08/2005 6:34:39 AM PST by SR 50 (Larry)
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To: AliVeritas

Lookie Lookie Lookie, here comes Tookie, Took's gang control.


30 posted on 12/08/2005 6:35:13 AM PST by sandbar
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To: Kenton

>>>There are some things in life that just saying "I'm sorry" doesn't get you out of. Like justice for multiple murder.>>>

Exactly, I keep trying to pound that into my kids head. They can act impulsively and understand that saying "I'm sorry" doesn't change their actions or the consequences of them.


31 posted on 12/08/2005 6:37:32 AM PST by sandbar
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To: Long Distance Rider
"I will be very surprised if Schwarzenegger does not commute Williams' sentence. Schwarzenegger is no conservative and as a member of the Hollywood elite, I am sure he will not want to offend his peers. Or more importantly, his wife and in-laws."

Prepare to be very surprised.

32 posted on 12/08/2005 6:50:12 AM PST by Hoof Hearted
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To: mslee
Not specifically for the murders but he certainly has taken "responsiblity" (aka credit) for the creation of his murderous gang.


If he were to have taken responsibility for his crimes and have worked all these years to make atonement, I would feel that some leniency might be in order. Given the number of years available for him to have done so though...and compared to how little he has done...
33 posted on 12/08/2005 6:59:04 AM PST by P-40 (http://www.590klbj.com/forum/index.php?referrerid=1854)
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To: AliVeritas

Tookies best selling book only sold 330 copies???

Did he run those off on the prison copy machine?


34 posted on 12/08/2005 7:04:50 AM PST by sgtbono2002
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To: AliVeritas; tgusa; mewzilla; goldstategop; kentj; OldSmaj; Rummyfan; Thombo2; Kenton; gridlock; ...
He has written children's books that speak out against gang violence.

So, Tookie, in an effort to illustrate his goodness has written a few books for the benefit of society. I'd like to see one of these non-sellers.

Nearly ........... in the immortal words of Ed Byrnes: "Tookie, Tookie, Lend Me Your Tome."

35 posted on 12/08/2005 7:29:01 AM PST by beyond the sea (Murtha: Redeployment - What .......Surrender? // “Victory is not a strategy”)
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To: SR 50

I love it - "oh I must have missed the memo"


36 posted on 12/08/2005 7:48:39 AM PST by kentj
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To: AliVeritas

I spent a little time browsing on tookie.com. This is what he regrets:

"I also didn't expect the Crips to end up ruining the lives of so many young people, especially young black men who have hurt other young black men. . . . So today I apologize to you all -- the children of America and South Africa -- who must cope every day with dangerous street gangs. I no longer participate in the so-called gangster lifestyle, and I deeply regret that I ever did.

As a contribution to the struggle to end child-on-child brutality and black-on-black brutality, I have written the Tookie Speaks Out Against Gang Violence children's book series."

There isn't a word of sympathy for his victims, or other innocent victims of gang crime. His sympathy is for the gang members. He regrets their -- and his own -- self-destruction -- that is all.

I think Tookie is still the same racist he was when he murdered whites and Asians in cold blood, laughed about their suffering, and stated that he wanted to kill all whites.

Put another way, his "redemption" is really just self-pity -- extended to those he views as being like himself.


37 posted on 12/08/2005 8:43:42 AM PST by lady lawyer
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To: lady lawyer

"There isn't a word of sympathy for his victims"

Exactimundo! He refuses to apologize for taking the lives of four innocent people.

Yet, the brilliant legal minds (MAJOR SARCASM HAHA) of actors Mike Farrell, Ed Asner and Jamie Foxx continue to claim there was no evidence that he killed anyone. They must burn up the phone lines comparing radio frequencies via their tinfoil hat connections late at night.


38 posted on 12/08/2005 10:51:10 AM PST by goresalooza (Nurses Rock!)
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To: OldSmaj

I like the idea of a gurney journey or perhaps a drip trip for the murderer. I hope Ahnold does not do another leftist flip and let the guy survive.


39 posted on 12/08/2005 10:59:10 AM PST by Paulus Invictus
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To: AliVeritas; aculeus; JohnHuang2; hellinahandcart; Constitution Day; Petronski; Larry Lucido; ...
... the actor and writer Joseph Phillips discovered that the highest selling children's book written by Williams has sold only 330 copies.

A fascinating detail about this author, which I don't recall anyone reporting until now.

40 posted on 12/08/2005 10:59:57 AM PST by dighton
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To: dighton

Which one was it? "It Takes a 'Hood to Bust a Cap on a Crip"


41 posted on 12/08/2005 11:02:58 AM PST by Tijeras_Slim (Now that taglines are cool, I refuse to have one.)
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To: dighton; AliVeritas; aculeus; JohnHuang2; hellinahandcart; Constitution Day; Petronski; ...
... the actor and writer Joseph Phillips discovered that the highest selling children's book written by Williams has sold only 330 copies.

A fascinating detail about this author, which I don't recall anyone reporting until now.

Stanley Crouch deserves more postings here at FR. His point about anyone being able to nominate for a Nobel is also excellent.

42 posted on 12/08/2005 2:03:52 PM PST by aculeus
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To: AliVeritas

When we see the NAACP, Jamie Foxx, Danny Glover and that paragon of public morality, Snoop Dogg, calling for Williams to receive clemency,.......


.....We know there is a room full of racists trying to save a murderer because it doesn't effect them personally one way or another. It speaks volumes about what these people think of the victims and their families. I, for one, think more about the lives he took and not about the POS that killed them.


43 posted on 12/08/2005 6:41:51 PM PST by WasDougsLamb (I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed man)
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