(Gov) Doyle (D, WI) OKs Plan B Lawsuit

Madison.com ^ | December 8, 2005 | Judith Davidoff

[Constantine XIII]

New and interesting ways to waste taxpayer money.

Not to mention evil.

[Alter Kaker]

The FDA is not a hot bed of pro-life insurgent bureaucrats, just the opposite. If they are foot dragging on approval, I'm betting there is some ugly side effects in the background.

Actually the FDA bureacrats repeatedly recomended the OTC approval of Plan B birth control. The political appointees have blocked it, because of the influence of a small segment of the pro-life movement which has mistaken Plan B birth control for an abortion pill. There are no serious or common side effects.

[Alter Kaker]

Drugs, or the lack of access to them, don't cause pregnancy, sex does.

While that's true, there's no denying that fewer women will have abortions if they have access to Plan B birth control. We all want less sex outside of marriage, but failing that, which would you prefer: more abortions or fewer abortions?

[Alter Kaker]

As an over-the-counter drug for underage females? Not in my book.

Then put it behind the counter and ask to see an ID. There aren't any safety concerns associated with Plan B, and it doesn't cause abortions, so I'm not sure what the problem is.

And do you want condoms behind the counter too? Why not at least be consistent?

[Alter Kaker]

Plan B does not prevet fertilization it causes a spontanous abortion by making the uterus hostile to the fetus.

Plan B causes abortions? Really? So tell me, what happens when a woman who's ten weeks' pregnant takes Plan B?

[Valpal1]

Based on 585 subjects in the actual use study, 29 of which were teens and none of which were under 14 and the maker wants it approved for over the counter use in adults and children.

Sorry if I don't think the FDA's request for more safety documention unreasonable.

Here's the actual non-approval letter from the FDA http://www.fda.gov/cder/drug/infopage/planB/planB_NALetter.pdf which includes the steps necessary to get approval.

None are unreasonable or political. The maker has no proof that this product is safe for children and it doesn't even beging to address the issue of it being used to sexually abuse young girls. I tend to think it is the maker that is relying on political pressure to push approval through instead of doing their homework.

[Diana in Wisconsin]

"What this amounts to is a dog and pony show for Uncle Jim and Aunt Peg to score brownie point$ and cold hard campaign ca$h from NARAL, NOW, Planned Parenthood, the ACLU, and the United Council of UW Students. Each of these "Usual Suspects" has obvious personal benefits coming to them, fiduciary or otherwise, in the placing of Plan B on the free market."

Thanks for your input. As usual, you're the smartest one in the room, LOL! Seriously, I appreciate hearing your point of view. It's so wonderful when you run into conservative young Americans these days...you're too few and far between. :)

[Diana in Wisconsin]

Valpall explained it to you. I'd have said the same.

[Alter Kaker]

Sorry if I don't think the FDA's request for more safety documention unreasonable.

The FDA bureaucrats in charge of evaluating studies overwhelmingly backed OTC approval. Millions of women have taken emergency contraception (it has been legal for six years in the US with a prescription), and yet so far there haven't been any adverse reactions.

Clearly the experts think it's safe, so why block it?

The maker has no proof that this product is safe for children

That's just false: Schorr, Melissa. (2003, November 18). "Emergency Contraception Safe for Use in Teenage Girls." Medscape Medical News .

and it doesn't even beging to address the issue of it being used to sexually abuse young girls.

While that's true, can't condoms be used to mask sexually abuse young girls as well? Why not make them illegal? What's the difference?

[Alter Kaker]

What this amounts to is a dog and pony show for Uncle Jim and Aunt Peg to score brownie point$ and cold hard campaign ca$h from NARAL, NOW, Planned Parenthood, the ACLU, and the United Council of UW Students. Each of these "Usual Suspects" has obvious personal benefits coming to them, fiduciary or otherwise, in the placing of Plan B on the free market.

Actually, OTC Plan B undercuts Planned Parenthood substantially.

Why?

1. It will reduce the number of abortions by as much as 50%. PP makes a profit from abortions. You've just cut into their margins.

2. If you can go to a pharmacy for Plan B birth control, why go to a Planned Parenthood office at all? You've just cut them out of the equation.

In fact, the pro-life movement benefits from having a society in which fewer abortions are performed, and should be enthusiastic in its support for Plan B.

[Valpal1]

I should have said the maker "did not submit proof".

As I said before they relied on political pressure to push approval through instead of doing their homework and all they have to do is re-submit with the requested information.

Why are they balking at such a simple request? Or were they using the older information with no reported adverse effects to suppress newer information with adverse effects, now that it's been out for six years???

Just because adverse effects aren't reported in the press doesn't mean there aren't any. Journalism is so fake but accurate these days. I just know we can trust them and thier self proclaimed experts.

I think your claim that it will reduce abortions is spurious. It will only increase irresponsible sexual behavior among dummies who think they can rely on emergency contraception. Increased sexual behavior always results in increased pregnancy rates regardless of contraceptive use.

[Extremely Extreme Extremist]

You raise some interesting and valid points.

[Alter Kaker]

Just because adverse effects aren't reported in the press doesn't mean there aren't any.

You've just demonstrated that you know nothing about the review process. Doctors haven't reported any side effects, and since doctors have been prescribing Plan B to millions of women in the United States and around the world, doctors should know what's going on. Forget journalists, the medical community is unanimous in its belief that Plan B is safe.

I think your claim that it will reduce abortions is spurious. It will only increase irresponsible sexual behavior among dummies who think they can rely on emergency contraception.

Now who's being spurious? Have young people started having sex because Plan B has been legal in the US for six years? Do you have any statistics to back up your absurd claim?

[Valpal1]

Increased sexual behavior results in increased pregnancy rates. That's a basic fact.

Teen access to contraceptives increases sexual activity, another fact.

Contraceptives fail, also a fact. A + B + C = increased pregnancy rates. It's basic logic.

Let's see, my parent's generation had no access to contraceptives and had very low teen pregnancy/birth rates, my generation has access to contraceptives/abortions and has a high teen pregnancy/birth rate.

Am I supposed to believe the increase in teen pregnancies and birth rates is completely unrelated to access to contraceptives over the last 35 years.

Sex ain't rocket science, if it was, only geeks would have sex.

[Alter Kaker]

Increased sexual behavior results in increased pregnancy rates. That's a basic fact.

That's nice, but there is absolutely zero evidence that Plan B increases incidence of sexual behavior.

Let's see, my parent's generation had no access to contraceptives and had very low teen pregnancy/birth rates

Do you support outlawing condoms? Traditional oral contraceptives? Are you aware that condoms are already available in any pharmacy in the United States, without a prescription?

[Valpal1]

I don't want them outlawed, but I would certainly support putting them in the same class as alcohol and tobacco.

Put them behind the counter and show ID, instead of giving them away free in big bowls on school nurses desk.

Teen STD's were low back in my parent's day too.

Let's face it, we don't cop an attitude that we can't control teens when it comes to tobacco or alcohol, no we restrict and stigmatize them.

What's with we can't restrict and stigmatize contraceptives for teens, cause their gonna have sex anyway? It's just PP propaganda because they have a financial interest in teen sex because they make money off the products of conception.

I laid out the basic logic of human behavior for you, but you want to remain blind and insist the Plan B is different than other types of contraception and won't encourage sexual risk taking because hey, you can run down to the corner market and pick up Plan B.

Yeah right. Sex ain't rocket science......

[Valpal1]

BTW, traditional oral contraceptives require a prescription, just like Plan B does currently.

Contraceptives are for adults because sex is for adults.

I acknowledge that children make unfortunate decisions to engage in unseemly adult behavior like sex, alcohol and tobacco.

That doesn't mean I have to condone it or enable it by providing contraceptives, cigarettes or beer over the counter to them.

[rzeznikj at stout]

Actually, OTC Plan B undercuts Planned Parenthood substantially.

Why?

1. It will reduce the number of abortions by as much as 50%. PP makes a profit from abortions. You've just cut into their margins.

2. If you can go to a pharmacy for Plan B birth control, why go to a Planned Parenthood office at all? You've just cut them out of the equation.

In fact, the pro-life movement benefits from having a society in which fewer abortions are performed, and should be enthusiastic in its support for Plan B.

Nothing could be further from the truth.

First, Planned Parenthood also distributes contraception; ergo, they have a lot to make by selling Plan B, even if they sell it for a buck a pill. They can lure the people who'd be put off by or deterred from (i.e. political or religious tenets) actually having abortions yet still make serious money off them. In this case, it is all about Following the Money for Planned Parenthood.

What you fail to take into remote consideration is that life begins at conception; this fact has been verified on numerous fronts, and has been in virtually every embryology textbook published since the 1880's.

Plan B is more or less industrial-strength doses of the Pill. And how it works is that it's specifically designed to kill the fertilized egg (no implantation) in case conception happens.

That said, there are two similar types of emergency contraception:

• The Yuzpe regimen uses both oestrogen and progesterone and is taken in two doses at usually 12 hrs apart. The point here is to mimic one of three things: regular contraception usage, pregnancy, or breastfeeding--making the reproductive system not release an egg, or if one's been released, the uterine lining decomposes. In the U.S. it is sold under the name Preven.
• More recently though, is the progesterone-only method. This is taken either in two 750 microgram doses, or as one 1.5 mg dose. This is sold as a prescription in the U.S. under the name Plan-B.

Either way, the drugs act in the same overall method-- making the uterine lining hostile to the fertilized egg. That's the very purpose of Preven and Plan B. Only that Plan B only contains progesterone and generally has less of the immediate side effects (nausea, vomiting, bleeding, etc.).

And because modern science has proven the existence of life at the second of conception, this by definition makes it a chemical abortion, though not in the same method as Mifepristone (RU-486).

And because it is a chemical abortion is precisely the very reason why the Pro-Life movement steadfastly refuses to support emergency contraception. That makes your claim of reducing the number of abortions to be a fallacy in and of itself--Plan B usage by its very definition and usage increases the number of abortions.

Another thing is that only Abstinence prevents against both pregnancy (Pearl Index=100) and STD's (no sex, little chance of getting an STD).

No other method works as effectively as saying NO. That's what the Pro-Life movement stands behind.

Plus, considering that contraceptives have killed several teenage girls in the past few years. The most recent case involved a 14 year old girl near LaCrosse, WI and OrthoEvra--which is a patch that works similar to Yuzpe method pills. Last I heard, the young lady's parents are trying to sue the manufacturer of OrthoEvra over her death.

It is these cases--deaths of teens and young women which has prompted the federal government to re-evaulate the drug.

[Alter Kaker]

BTW, traditional oral contraceptives require a prescription, just like Plan B does currently.

Should condoms be available only through a doctor's prescription?

[mancogasuki]

Plan B does not prevent fertilization it causes a spontanous abortion by making the uterus hostile to the fetus.

Sorry AWMS, you are not correct. Plan B prevents fertilization and does not cause a spontaneous abortion. I understand this topic is, to say the least, controverisal...but please look at the published scientific data. Non-fertilization of an egg is not an abortion.

I'm sure most of us here are against abortion so I'm not trying to be contrary or hostile here.. So...respectfully, I'm simply trying to point out that Plan B is a great way to reduce the number of abortions performed in this country and should be viewed with open eyes.