Posted on 12/08/2005 12:37:44 PM PST by Diana in Wisconsin
Pls define "self-induced abortion"..., I've never heard of that before.
Plan B IS the pill...only in super dosage form. Look at the data.
I'm not trying to be contrary or hostile here... IMHO Plan B could really help us get to our goal of reducing the number of true fetal abortions performed in this country by reducing the number of so-called "unwanted" pregnancies. Think it thru...it's not necessarily a "good" thing...but it's much better then the alternatives.
Ok...this is almost too humorous to comment on...you really think that the ATF should regulate condoms? Sorry to be "elitist", but that is just...um...ignorant.
And because modern science has proven the existence of life at the second of conception, this by definition makes it a chemical abortion, though not in the same method as Mifepristone (RU-486).
Again...this is irrelevant. I'm not disagreeing that life begins at conception. It does. I agree. I'm simply restating that Plan B prevents conception so it's not a chemical abortion. Please look at the data and ignore the propaganda... Plan B holds water and we, as conservatives, should embrace it as it will significantly REDUCE the number of abortions in this country.
Sorry, but...isn't that what we're all fighting for?
"How does Plan B work (mechanism of action)?
Plan B is believed to act as an emergency contraceptive principally by preventing ovulation or fertilization (by altering tubal transport of sperm and/or ova). In addition, it may inhibit implantation by altering the endometrium. Plan B is not effective if a woman is pregnant. Plan B is a contraceptive and cannot terminate an established pregnancy."
Since only afertizled egg immplants in the endometrium if you are preventing that you are causing an abortion.
Plan B can be effective up to 72 hours after intercourse. I haven't checked but I'm pretty sure sperm transit time to the egg is less than 72 hours.
So, by the way plan b works, it's just another abortion drug
I think you may be thinking of RU486, which may be the reason there is FDA hesitance on the Plan B... RU486 is dangerous to the "mom" as well as the obvious victim (the baby). Maybe the FDA doesn't want this one to backfire with "unintended consequences".
I see that if one is not absolutely specific, the one is take out of context and misquoted. I never suggested regulation by ATF.
I meant treated socially the same as alcohol and tobacco, which is that we don't condone it use by children and we don't sell it to them, nor do we teach them in school how to use them "safely".
If we can teach children to just say no to tobacco and alcohol then we can do the same for sexuality.
Abstinence and social stigma worked until the liberals decided it was "mean" and replaced it with "education". Well, how has 40 years of liberal sex education worked?
We've got homosexuals hounding the boy scouts in court every chance they get. Illegitimacy rates that make most boys raised in single mother households. Divorce rates and child support laws that make men avoid marriage, STD's bursting out like spring flowers.
Call me ignorant, but the libertines are destroying this nation as surely the pussy doves of the democratic party.
Sex isn't rocket science, if it was, only geeks would have sex.
The debate on the OTC relase of Plan B revolves around usage for teens and young adults.
There is a difference between Mifepristone (RU-486) and Plan B, but it's very slight.
Plan B is intended to be taken within 72 hours of intercourse and makes the uterine lining break down such that a fertilized egg cannot implant itself; RU-486 can only be used no sooner than three-four weeks into a pregnancy and I believe we can all reach the consensus that it's a chemical abortion by definition.
Maybe the FDA doesn't want this one to backfire with "unintended consequences"
In respect to Plan B, you're absolutely right. That's why the FDA is re-evaluating the drug.
Again...this is irrelevant. I'm not disagreeing that life begins at conception. It does. I agree. I'm simply restating that Plan B prevents conception so it's not a chemical abortion. Please look at the data and ignore the propaganda... Plan B holds water and we, as conservatives, should embrace it as it will significantly REDUCE the number of abortions in this country.
I'm not looking at propaganda--quite the contrary. A good deal of my information I'm getting from hard sources like the FDA, pharmaceutical handbooks, and even manufacturer information from websites, advertisements in magazines, etc. I don't know about you, but such sources aren't propaganda, not even by the loosest definition of the word.
Plan B is not intended to prevent conception; it's designed purpose is to prevent implantation. That's what the drug maufacturers' intended purpose is. If it was to prevent conception, they'd just be making another before-the-fact pill. And there's a huge market of pills available already.
Because of this, what John O mentioned in post 45 and what I mentioned in Post 38, the Pro-Life movement cannot in good faith support Plan B and still say they're working to cut abortions. That would be the ultimate hypocrisy.
Sorry, but...isn't that what we're all fighting for?
We're fighting for ideally, no abortions. But since Plan B is abortion, by supporting Plan B, we're defeating our own purpose and fighting against our own goals. Why would we do that?
It doesn't make sense. And neither does Plan B.
<sidenote>
On a side Note: 2005 AB 343 is currently stuck in committee in the Senate, after passing the Assembly last may. For those who may not know what it is, the bill would prohibit the UW student health clinics from doling out contraceptives. If anyone would like more info on the bill, please feel free to contact me here or by private reply.
Agreed. My apologies, I was being gratuitously facetious in my snarky reply. I hate it when people do it to me and I shouldn't have done it to you.
'Just say no', IMHO just doesn't work for most hormone ravaged teens. They're gonna do what they do either to spite the parents or to see what all the fuss is about. Our jobs as parents is to mitigate the damage by making sure we take personal responsibility for educating our kids about all the facts of life.
By removing easy access to birth control I feel pregnancies & abortions will go up. I get some are against it for religious reasons, but the reality is birth control (in whatever form) is a healthy thing for both reproductive reasons and disease prevention. I would be the first to give my kids protection. My dad did it for me and I will do it for my kids. That doesn't mean I have to like it though.
Sorry, I'm going to have to go with all the scientific data that says Plan B does not cause abortion. We'll have to agree to disagree on this one I guess.
Touchy subject for all I'm sure, so aside from my slight deviation (lol), I do appreciate the civil discourse on this topic. It's been educational.
FYI this is from the FDA website as to how Plan B works:
Plan B works like other birth control pills to prevent pregnancy. Plan B acts primarily by stopping the release of an egg from the ovary (ovulation). It may prevent the union of sperm and egg (fertilization). If fertilization does occur, Plan B may prevent a fertilized egg from attaching to the womb (implantation). If a fertilized egg is implanted prior to taking Plan B, Plan B will not work.
I know there are a lot of "mays" in that statement, but it does not only work by making the uterine lining hostile to implantation.
I work in a pregnancy center and am amazed at how many young clients say they have used the MAP. They can get them easily here in Washington- my local university gives them out, for instance.
Touchy subject for all I'm sure, so aside from my slight deviation (lol), I do appreciate the civil discourse on this topic. It's been educational.
Second to that.
If a fertilized egg is implanted prior to taking Plan B, Plan B will not work.
Very valid point. Then again, I'm not trying to paint Plan B as a mere clone or a pharmacological ripoff of RU-486. Rather, the animus of my argument is to show that Plan B is suitable neither for OTC release nor for backing by the Pro-Life community because by definition it is an abortifacient drug.
Though, you're right in that it can be used to prevent ovulation because the pharmacological properties of Plan B are akin to other oral contraceptives. Because of this, it is possible (though I don't know how well, or whether it's a good idea) to take extra doses of regular contraceptives to achieve the same effect.
I don't have a beef with that usage--I view such usage the same way I view before-the-fact contraception. Morally speaking, I personally find it to be a gravely wrongful and selfish act, but I'm not going to stop others from using it so long as it is safe and legal.
Though IMO, if the purpose is to prevent ovulation, why not just have people use before-the-fact contraceptives, or even better, practice abstinence?
I see you work at a pregnancy center--I'm figuring you'd have a lot more knowledge and experience about this topic than I would. (hey, I'm only a 19 year old Political Science major)
They can get them easily here in Washington- my local university gives them out, for instance.
The same is true in the University of Wisconsin system. In fact, this past spring, the UW-Madison student newspaper advertised its students to order their MAP's before leaving on Spring Break.
This in turn prompted several lawmakers to draft a bill outlawing this practice systemwide. The measure passed the state assembly. And, it's enraged the typical Lefty groups in the process--it's one of the major issues United Council is trying to enlist students to fight against.
But perhaps there is a way to educate our youth about being responsible.
In any case though, you've made some excellent points for all of us to pick up!!
Really? Please look at the past as a guide to the future.
Every generation of teens is "hormone ravaged", but guess what, they didn't have much sex back in days before the contraception was easily available.
Was there some, sure, but not anything comparable to today's teen pregnancy/birth rate.
Contraception is the reason for this. Teens, emboldened by contraceptive access have more sex, earlier and more frequently than they do when they don't have access. And guess what, they're teens, they take risks, they are inconsistent, they are careless and they get pregnant.
Moral training, supervision and the development of character and self control will do your kids more good than giving your kids birth control and telling them you expect them to hump their brains out because that you have such a low opinion of them.
Actually, I don't think education was so hot for me as a high school graduate in 1976, college in 1980, in So. Cal... At any rate, abstinence programs like the one we offer are a good idea, and all we can pray for is that hearts and minds are changed and the youth of today learns that they have a long life ahead of them and don't need to put themselves at such risk (physically, emotionally, spiritually) which, whether or not they admit it, they will carry with them for a long time. It's a hard job trying to erase or at least lessen the damage that's been done by PP and their companions.
Excellent Point! If there's one thing our youth should draw from all of this, you've nailed it on the head.
It's a hard job trying to erase or at least lessen the damage that's been done by PP and their companions.
That it is, especially when the pro-Abortion industrial complex makes the news, oftentimes on a daily basis.
The fact that there are people like you working on the front lines to instill a culture of life in our nation is indeed truly a positive gem, especially among the sea of selfishness and negativity our MSM puts out to the country and especially our youth.
If you'd look back at my post...giving my kids the benefit of knowledge during their development was the whole point. Once kids get to the point where they're even contemplating sex is beyond too late. Keeping them in the dark, pretending the reality of sexual awaking in adolescence doesn't exist is the epitome of low opinion of your kids...not giving them knowledge. However, if you're comfortable living that way, good luck with that.
This is 2005, forgetting pregnancy for a minute...there are simply too many scary diseases (HIV, the alphabet of Hepatitis, HPV etc...) out there to ignore the positives of making sure your kids are protected both educationally & physically. You can do all the "moral training" you want, but kids will always be kids and it only takes one slip for it to be too late. We're all adults here, who here can say they never had that one "oh crap" moment in their youth? Risk mitigation. Embrace it.
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