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'Winter Soldier': Cold Days in Hell
the washington post ^ | Friday, December 9, 2005; Page C05 | By Ann Hornaday

Posted on 12/10/2005 4:21:52 AM PST by Jimmy Valentine's brother

Vietnam Veterans Bare Their Souls In a Searing '72 Documentary

See "Winter Soldier."

This extraordinary documentary, made in 1972 and having its first theatrical release, not only revisits events during the Vietnam War that have uncanny resonance today but also stands as a riveting example of pure filmic storytelling. An unadorned, black-and-white record of a three-day gathering held in Detroit in 1971, "Winter Soldier" turns the camera on the testimony of former soldiers invited by Vietnam Veterans Against the War to share accounts of atrocities they committed or witnessed. The result is a spellbinding film that achieves impressive power through little more than the spoken word. ..... Recreational killing of civilians, rape, arson, torture: They did it, or saw it, all. Having been trained to see their enemies as less than human -- they were always called gooks or commies -- and having been taught to dissociate from the violence they were committing lest they be killed themselves, they simply learned not to care.

......."Winter Soldier" is an important historical document, an eerily prescient antiwar plea and a dazzling example of filmmaking at its most iconographically potent. But at its best, it is the eloquent, unforgettable tale of profound moral reckoning. Winter Soldier (95 minutes, at Landmark's E Street Cinema) is not rated.

(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News
KEYWORDS: 1971; johnkerry; lies; moviereview; southvietnam; swiftboatvets; vietnamveterans; vvaw; wintersoldier
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Also this Article from the same bird cage wrapper
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/12/08/AR2005120800686.html

Fonda's 'Winter' of Redemption
Friday, December 9, 2005; Page WE34

More than 30 years after it was made, the documentary "Winter Soldier" is finally getting its big-screen release in the United States. The movie, made by a team of filmmakers, is a stark recording of Vietnam War veterans' accounts of atrocities committed by American soldiers during the war. (See review on Page 28.)

In a hotel conference room in Detroit in early 1971, former soldiers and antiwar activists gathered for what was called the Winter Soldier Investigation, named after a line in a Thomas Paine poem. One of the original financial backers of the WSI and the subsequent film based on it was Jane Fonda, who in 1971 was already known for her role as "Barbarella" but was not yet being called "Hanoi Jane." In an e-mail interview, Fonda talked about what she hopes audiences will take from the film. "In my book [her memoir, 'My Life So Far'], I call the 'Winter Soldier' chapter 'Redemption,' because I feel that is what the WSI represented for those brave men. They were asking Americans to hear them in their collective truth-telling." Among the soldiers who testified were Scott Camil, Rusty Sachs and future senator John Kerry, all of whom were members of Vietnam Veterans Against the War.

Fonda said "Winter Soldier" shows the psychological impact of the war on service personnel: "Starting with the Vietnam War we began training soldiers differently. In my book I talk about secret meetings I had with military psychologists who were really worried about what was happening to our combat personnel. 'We're turning them into killing machines,' one of them said to me. This began because the military discovered that in World War II and Korea, soldiers weren't killing enough (in their opinion), so they changed training procedures."

However, Fonda insists, "it's critical that we understand that the soldiers are not to blame. How they were trained, how their officers either gave the green light or turned a blind eye to what was happening on the ground is what matters. When you put young people into an atrocity-producing situation where enemy and civilian are commingled, where the 'other side' is dehumanized, we cannot be surprised by what these men report in the film."

Fonda insists, "We have not learned the lessons of Vietnam. The returned veterans tried valiantly to tell us what the lessons were, [but] most of us turned our backs. . . . Today the returning antiwar Iraq vets are being called 'unpatriotic.' We must listen to what they have to say."

"Winter Soldier" is at Landmark's E Street Cinema, 555 11th St. NW. Tickets are $6.75 and $9.50. Call 202-452-7672.

1 posted on 12/10/2005 4:21:53 AM PST by Jimmy Valentine's brother
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To: Jimmy Valentine's brother

Sorry, Hanoi Janey...not this time.

You had your time in the spotlight, and it seriously damaged this country. Go back into your cave.


2 posted on 12/10/2005 4:28:04 AM PST by LeftiesBinWhinin (Remember Bill Clinton and never vote for a Democrat ever again.)
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To: Jimmy Valentine's brother

When all else fails, regurgitate Vietnam and Whiner Soldier.


3 posted on 12/10/2005 4:34:45 AM PST by RTINSC (Being Offended is the Natural Consequence of Leaving Your Home...)
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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub; ALOHA RONNIE; cf_river_rat; 1 Olgoat; 103198; 10Ring; 11Bush; 1stbn27; ...

It's a full court press by the anti-WOT; anti-American, leftist crowd. Fortunately, they're stuck in a sixties quagmire due to their over indulgence in themselves and the brown acid that was not specifically too good. Indeed, they are on their own trip.

That said I'm am so mad that I could spit just as they continue to spit on the men and women who tried to preserve freedom in SEA.

For those that think that being in the streets is a waste of time, this bs which is being billed as fact is why you must be there.

See you in the streets.


4 posted on 12/10/2005 4:38:05 AM PST by Jimmy Valentine's brother
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To: Jimmy Valentine's brother

This slander was discredited years ago. Many of the "Vietnam vets" were REMFs who made up their stories, soldiers who never set foot in Vietnam, or people who never served at all. It is sad that this ancient lie is resurrected.


5 posted on 12/10/2005 4:39:09 AM PST by Viet Vet in Augusta GA
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To: RTINSC; LeftiesBinWhinin
The problem is that this is billed as a documentary film. People are going to believe what is being put out by this film. That America's men were capable of war crimes. And if that's the case certainly there children currently protecting us are capable of the very same thing.
6 posted on 12/10/2005 4:43:26 AM PST by Jimmy Valentine's brother
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To: Jimmy Valentine's brother
This re-release is another attempt at a stab in the back to our Viet Nam Vets, however, now we have three powerful weapons of our own to fight back: historical facts; perspective; and the new media, including Free Republic.

Facts such as the millions who suffered and died because US forces were pulled out of Viet Nam. Facts about the hundreds of thousands of US troops who reentered civilian life still loving our country....John O'Neil, Sam Johnson, and others.

Perspective on the anti-American agenda that was driving the winter soldiers. We now clearly know the communist connections.

The new media has freed us forever from having only one type of news source,the MSM, and old rotten powerhorses like Walter Cronkite, who could shade truth and slant public opinion.
7 posted on 12/10/2005 4:45:00 AM PST by chgomac
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To: Viet Vet in Augusta GA
This slander was discredited years ago

Not in this reviewer's mind. I call your attention to the opening line.This extraordinary documentary, made in 1972 and having its first theatrical release, not only revisits events during the Vietnam War that have uncanny resonance today..There will be no one in the theater saying that these people were REMFS making up lies; that congress could find no substantiation for the fabrications that are in this film.

8 posted on 12/10/2005 4:50:38 AM PST by Jimmy Valentine's brother
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To: All
 'Winter Soldier' Held Back to Help Kerry Campaign

9 posted on 12/10/2005 4:52:03 AM PST by backhoe (The Silence of the Tom's ( Tired Old Media... ))
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To: chgomac

See comments #4 and #8


10 posted on 12/10/2005 4:53:38 AM PST by Jimmy Valentine's brother
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To: backhoe

You have an unbelieveable ability to mine your vast archives. I am in awe.


11 posted on 12/10/2005 4:55:43 AM PST by Jimmy Valentine's brother
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To: Jimmy Valentine's brother

The only way these people could become bigger liars is if they gained some weight.


12 posted on 12/10/2005 4:59:23 AM PST by cf_river_rat (Just another defender of the faith)
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To: Jimmy Valentine's brother

"Documentary" and factual?? D***** propoganda is more like it...


13 posted on 12/10/2005 4:59:35 AM PST by Molly Pitcher (We are Americans...the sons and daughters of liberty...*.from FReeper the Real fifi*))
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To: Jimmy Valentine's brother
The problem is that this is billed as a documentary film.

Yeah... like Michael Moore's Fahrenheit 9/11.

What a crock.

14 posted on 12/10/2005 5:01:02 AM PST by Northern Yankee (Freedom Needs A Soldier)
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To: cf_river_rat
The only way these people could become bigger liars is if they gained some weight.

Hence, Michael Moore!

15 posted on 12/10/2005 5:02:15 AM PST by Northern Yankee (Freedom Needs A Soldier)
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To: Jimmy Valentine's brother

Unbelievable. These wacko's are going to use those same bloody lies of pot heads and kooks who never served yet again.
Maybe this will bring a renewed effort to have John Kerry exposed and kicked out of the Senate for having these liars testify at a senate hearing.


16 posted on 12/10/2005 5:04:15 AM PST by Forte Runningrock
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To: Jimmy Valentine's brother
You have an unbelieveable ability to mine your vast archives. I am in awe.

JVb, I thank you, and I'm sure there's a gawd-awful pun lurking in there somewhere around "awe," but I'm too dang cold to think one up ( first really cold day down here, house hasn't warmed up yet ) at the moment.

I spyed that link looking for something else, but I also noticed that the "keyword database" has an entry that yields tons of more links:

WINTERSOLDIER

It just astounds me what this awful man continues to get away with.

17 posted on 12/10/2005 5:04:40 AM PST by backhoe (The Silence of the Tom's ( Tired Old Media... ))
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To: Jimmy Valentine's brother

Re-releasing this right when the Demowits are trying to cut and run--nice timing. I see Hanoi Jane is back with her same treason.

Clapped out skunk that she is.


18 posted on 12/10/2005 5:07:34 AM PST by sgtbono2002
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To: Jimmy Valentine's brother
Are not these the same boo-hooing "Winter Soldiers", who were later found out, to have never set foot in the triple canopy jungles of VietNam?
19 posted on 12/10/2005 5:13:31 AM PST by gitmogrunt (Oppose One "Farce" at the Border)
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To: sgtbono2002
I see Hanoi Jane is back with her same treason.

Yes, and let us all remember that she regretted her activities and apologized to the Vietnam Veterans. But she is reverting to form.

20 posted on 12/10/2005 5:15:34 AM PST by Jimmy Valentine's brother
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To: gitmogrunt

I presume this is a rhetorical question.


21 posted on 12/10/2005 5:18:10 AM PST by Jimmy Valentine's brother
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To: gitmogrunt

Yes it is. But now we have the evidence that they were all liars, and steve pitkin.s (not sure of the name) Statement he releaded last year of how he was coaxed by kerry to tell those lies.


22 posted on 12/10/2005 5:18:52 AM PST by Forte Runningrock
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To: Forte Runningrock

"released"


23 posted on 12/10/2005 5:19:29 AM PST by Forte Runningrock
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To: Jimmy Valentine's brother; chgomac; backhoe

I bet this WP "writer" was not even born in 1972.

If this gets wide release, it will hurt the anti-WOT crowd. It will open discussion of the whole issue of the war in SE Asia. It may even help to reclaim recognition of the valor of Americans who did go to fight in the '60s and '70s.

The hippies in this film will be viewed with the same gravitas as disco dancers. Only Air America listeners will ally themselves with Winter Soldier, further marginalizing the anti-WOT crowd from mainstream sentiment in the US.




24 posted on 12/10/2005 5:20:10 AM PST by maica (We are fighting the War for the Free World --Frank Gaffney)
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To: Jimmy Valentine's brother

It's the end of the world as we know it...I feel fine...


25 posted on 12/10/2005 5:22:32 AM PST by stevem
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To: backhoe

I see I duped a post, although I get partial credit for the Hanoi Jane article.

I know that one of the men who testified at the Winter Soldier trials came forth in the Fall of 2004 to say that he made everything up because he needed a ride back home and was not going to get one unless he spoke out against the War. I know that he was in Washington and spoke at the Veterans Rally against J F'ing K. I know that he is a featured player in this film.


26 posted on 12/10/2005 5:25:59 AM PST by Jimmy Valentine's brother
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To: Jimmy Valentine's brother

They are becoming parodies of themselves now. Withthe 2004 election, American deomstrated they arent into the Viet Nam Protest era anymore. They have also demonstrated that they are sick of the left bashing the troops..


27 posted on 12/10/2005 5:27:38 AM PST by cardinal4
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To: Jimmy Valentine's brother

The Swiftvets (just as john O'Neil did last when Kerry called our troops terrorists) and all the rest of us veterans will come out of the woodwork to set the record straight on any proaganda piece that they may have planned.

Semper Fi'
JarheadFromFlorida


28 posted on 12/10/2005 5:30:39 AM PST by Buffettfan
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To: maica
I bet this WP "writer" was not even born in 1972.

That's the crux of the problem isn't it? She thinks this is a documentary and not a propaganda hit piece. Just as all the innocents who view this will also think. There is no counter arguement; no identification of the cast of characters other who they claim to be.

29 posted on 12/10/2005 5:31:34 AM PST by Jimmy Valentine's brother
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To: Buffettfan
Believe that the Swiftvets were under assault in the courts. Kind of convenient that they have to fight a distracting action.

I have faith that people like you will defend your honor but as Rummy intimated the other day it's had to prove a negative. People will believe what they believe and part of that belief is based upon what they see.
30 posted on 12/10/2005 5:37:45 AM PST by Jimmy Valentine's brother
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To: Jimmy Valentine's brother
Treason 30 years ago is still Treason. Funny how none of the spliders who recanted this slander is being reported by the Anti American Cheerleaders in the Dinasour Media.
31 posted on 12/10/2005 5:41:26 AM PST by MNJohnnie (Now the Democrat leadership claims that accurately quoting them is "attack politics")
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To: Jimmy Valentine's brother
......."Winter Soldier" is an important historical document, …

Yes, it documents how easily Hanoi John and others lie.
32 posted on 12/10/2005 5:59:21 AM PST by R. Scott (Humanity i love you because when you're hard up you pawn your Intelligence to buy a drink.)
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To: Jimmy Valentine's brother

If this gets any publicity at all, beyond a few fringe theaters, I believe that Vietnam vets and their families will speak out. The left do no own the media any longer, and many Vietnam veterans are grandparents, retired, and have motive, time and energy to speak up.


33 posted on 12/10/2005 6:02:42 AM PST by maica (We are fighting the War for the Free World --Frank Gaffney)
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To: Jimmy Valentine's brother

Time to send money to the Swift Boat Vets again, I guess.


34 posted on 12/10/2005 6:10:38 AM PST by jocon307
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To: Jimmy Valentine's brother

This review was changed by the post. At the link here, you can see that you can review the film yourself. At first, when I posted my thread, many freepers did review...and then the spies got into it and started their lying reviews. The review you posted has been changed! Check it out.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?node=cityguide/profile&id=1113494&lat=200.0&lon=200.0&displaySearchLocation=&nm=1&categories=Movies

It will come as a surprise to most filmgoers that they've been waiting 30 years to see "Winter Soldier." But now that they have the chance, they won't want to miss it. This extraordinary documentary, having its first theatrical release, not only revisits events during the Vietnam War that have uncanny resonance today but also stands as a riveting example of pure filmic storytelling. An unadorned, black-and-white record of a three-day gathering in Detroit in 1971, "Winter


35 posted on 12/10/2005 6:22:06 AM PST by vharlow (http://www.vventures.net)
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To: maica

http://www.wintersoldierfilm.com/upcoming.html

It seems like The distributors only have one copy of the film. It is certainly not opening "wide."


36 posted on 12/10/2005 6:25:24 AM PST by maica (We are fighting the War for the Free World --Frank Gaffney)
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To: maica

That's the whole point, it SHOULD NOT get any publicity at all because it's been proven a fabrication.
Its designed to criminalize our veterans, and disrespect todays troops. They trying to project these fabricated "atrocities" of Viet Nam and project them onto todays soldiers, criminalize them and eventually cause a withdrawal of troops from Iraq. It's slanderous, a smear, and TREASONOUS. They want to cause another Fulbright hearing.


37 posted on 12/10/2005 6:26:31 AM PST by Forte Runningrock
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To: Jimmy Valentine's brother

For once, I am truly without comment.

The time to have this discussion was during the election. We tried. Well, the Swifties tried, all I had to offer was my support.

The Swifites were treated like trash, not even being worthy of debate. We witnessed leftist meltdown more than once regarding this issue. The best they could do was say"Liar, liar pants on fire."

Well, now we are at war and it seems the Washington Post thinks it is time to have the debate.

Swear alert--

Bullshit, assholes each and everyone of them.
Well, I say bring it on. Let's air this out once and for all. When the dust settles, the left will be in for a shock when they realize who is still standing tall.


38 posted on 12/10/2005 6:31:51 AM PST by Protect the Bill of Rights (GOP, The Other France)
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To: Jimmy Valentine's brother

Jane Fonda has made a living trashing our country. Lets call her what she is, a prostitute who sells to the highest bidder. Her last customer was that nutcase Ted Turner. She is on the prowl for another cash customer.


39 posted on 12/10/2005 6:33:51 AM PST by hgro (A)
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To: Forte Runningrock

It is not getting much publicity. From this release about the film, it has been screened at selected locales since August. Obviously not a boffo success.

http://www.indiewire.com/biz/biz_050728mill.html

From the "Biz" Archives:
Doros and Heller Set Release of "Winter Soldier" to Launch New Company, Milliarium Zero
by Eugene Hernandez

Milestone Film co-founders Dennis Doros and Amy Heller have formed Milliarium Zero, a new film distribution company that will handle films with strong social and political content. First up for the new outfit is "Winter Soldier," a look at the 1971 Winter Solider Investigation conducted by activist group, Vietnam Veterans Against The War. The film was made by a collective of filmmakers who worked together to create the rarely seen documentary.
The name for Doros and Heller's new outlet translates as "zero milepost," named for the official landmark opposite the White House in Washington D.C. "Winter Soldier" will open for a week run at Lincoln Center's Walter Reade Theater on August 12th, followed that night by a panel featuring 10 filmmakers and at least five of the soldiers.

In creating "Winter Soldier," a group of filmmakers, calling themselves 'Winterfilm,' worked to document the testimonies of many veterans. Included in the collective are Fred Aronow, Nancy Baker, Rhetta Barron, Robert Fiore, David Gillis, David Grubin, Barbara Jarvis, Barbara Kopple, Michael Lesser, Lee Osborne, Lucy Massie Phenix, Roger Phenix, Benay Rubenstein and Michael Weil. The filmmakers worked over four days and nights, with donated equipment and film stock, to shoot footage of more than 125 veterans, among them a young John Kerry. The footage was edited over eight months to create the 95-minute movie. Screened in Cannes and Berlin, including a brief run at Cinema 2 in Manhattan, the film failed to get a TV broadcast and has been rarely seen since.

"We thought that 'Winter Soldier' gave us the perfect opportunity to start a brand-new venture that had its own identity -- a company that could take risks on powerful and possibly controversial films," explained Milliarium co-founder Dennis Doros in an email conversation with indieWIRE. "We are disturbed by the lack of discourse in the United States -- caused, perhaps, by a general lack of commitment and passion, anxiety about being in a minority, fear of our own government, and feelings of apathy and paranoia." Continuing he added, "There are brave filmmakers and distributors out there who are trying to make a difference and we want Milliarium to be part of this effort."

After the run in New York, Doros and Heller have booked the movie at a number of other venues, including Minnesota Film Arts in Minneapolis and the Gene Siskel Film Center in Chicago for a week in mid-September, a night each at the Avalon in Stamford, CT and the Detroit Film Theater at the Detroit Film Institute (in August and November respectively), and a week at Reel Artways in Hartford, CT in late September.


40 posted on 12/10/2005 6:35:59 AM PST by maica (We are fighting the War for the Free World --Frank Gaffney)
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To: Jimmy Valentine's brother
We need some blogger to research the film and it's characters for accuracy and truthfulness. Then this has to used to point out what these people are really like.

It is all there. If memory serves me right many of the participants later denied what they said or were never really in RVN.

Corsi or someone can make a quick buck with a quick, but factual, book on this whole subject.

41 posted on 12/10/2005 6:36:00 AM PST by shrinkermd
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To: shrinkermd

This was done last year in film version and MSM ganged up on any TV station or movie house who thought that presenting an opposing [to JFnKerry] viewpoint was a good idea. Private DVDs were made available by the filmmaker.


42 posted on 12/10/2005 6:40:50 AM PST by maica (We are fighting the War for the Free World --Frank Gaffney)
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To: Jimmy Valentine's brother
Some things never change:


43 posted on 12/10/2005 6:47:32 AM PST by advance_copy (Stand for life, or nothing at all)
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To: advance_copy
Let's do that again with the link to the video:


44 posted on 12/10/2005 6:54:08 AM PST by advance_copy (Stand for life, or nothing at all)
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To: shrinkermd
Referring to the 13 prisoners of war (POWs) who appeared in the anti-Kerry film Stolen Honor: Wounds that Never Heal -- excerpts of which were broadcast by 40 Sinclair affiliate stations on October 22 as part of a Sinclair program titled A POW Story: Politics, Pressure and the Media -- Hyman claimed: "13 American POWs ... ended 31 years of self-imposed silence in order to set the record straight. These American icons rebutted Kerry's claims that his 1971 testimony accusing American servicemen of 'war crimes' ... harmed no one."

Mark Hyman, a Captain in the Navy Reserve, and executive with Sinclair Broadcasting Corp, tried to get the entire film aired on Fox affiliates and was thwarted.

45 posted on 12/10/2005 7:01:37 AM PST by maica (We are fighting the War for the Free World --Frank Gaffney)
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To: maica
"It is not getting much publicity. From this release about the film, it has been screened at selected locales since August. Obviously not a boffo success."

Thank goodness for that. What would be interesting is to see what was left on the editors floor. Kerry and Fonda licking toads? LoL!

46 posted on 12/10/2005 7:18:38 AM PST by Forte Runningrock
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To: Forte Runningrock

The footage was edited over eight months to create the 95-minute movie. Screened in Cannes and Berlin, including a brief run at Cinema 2 in Manhattan, the film failed to get a TV broadcast and has been rarely seen since.

$$$$

4 days of filming took eight months of editing! Obviously there were lots of "retakes" of "testimony" sprinkled among a lot of pot-smoking and anti-social behavior.


47 posted on 12/10/2005 7:23:06 AM PST by maica (We are fighting the War for the Free World --Frank Gaffney)
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To: Jimmy Valentine's brother; kstewskis; Victoria Delsoul; Dog; The Raven; ALOHA RONNIE; ...
I know that one of the men who testified at the Winter Soldier trials came forth in the Fall of 2004 to say that he made everything up because he needed a ride back home and was not going to get one unless he spoke out against the War.

I saw that interview. Can't remember where, but the guy sure convinced me that most of those guys were illegitimate.

48 posted on 12/10/2005 7:47:30 AM PST by Northern Yankee (Freedom Needs A Soldier)
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To: Jimmy Valentine's brother

I must say, I'm not surprised.

I just said yesterday it's time for a resurrection of Kerry's lies. Too bad they beat the us to it. Too bad they're so good at projecting lies as truth.

The day after the election anyone could read the writing on the wall.

Americans can not continue to stick their heads in the sand and wish bad things away.

I'm just a little mad, can you tell.


49 posted on 12/10/2005 7:52:03 AM PST by freema (Proud Marine Mom-What fools they are who doubt the ability of liberty to triumph over despotism)
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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub

ping : (


50 posted on 12/10/2005 7:53:19 AM PST by freema (Proud Marine Mom-What fools they are who doubt the ability of liberty to triumph over despotism)
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