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Nonsense from Biden about Constitution-Writing: MSM Misses the Story, Again
Special to FreeRepublic ^ | 14 December, 2005 | John Armor (Congressman Billybob)

Posted on 12/13/2005 10:46:42 PM PST by Congressman Billybob

On Special Report with Brit Hume on Fox News, 13 December, 2005, Senator Joe Biden (D, Delaware) said the following in reply to President Bush’s third policy speech on Iraq in Philadelphia yesterday:

“Failure to get a consensus constitution spells doom for our policy in Iraq. So what is the plan, Mr. President? That is still lacking.”

After saying that means participation by the UN, NATO, and Iraq’s neighbors, Biden added:

“If this time next year nothing has changed concerning in terms of our success rate, we will be out of Iraq. The American people will not sustain this.”

The transcript of this is not up yet, but these quotes are TiVo’ed and accurate.

The full answer to these historically foolish statements by Senator Biden were given by President Bush in the first ten minutes of his speech in Philadelphia, on Monday. Bush began by recounting the history of America writing its own Constitution. He took time to note that our first attempt to draft an acceptable constitution was an abject failure. Under the Articles of Confederation, our government failed financially, and there were armed rebellions in the streets.

As the President carefully pointed out, it took us “eight years to write our Constitution.” The Battle of Yorktown effectively ended the American Revolution in 1781. It was not until 1789 that our Constitution was both written and ratified, to replace the Articles of Confederation, which had failed.

So the first historical nonsense stated by Senator Biden was that the American people will not “sustain” more than a one-year wait to obtain workable constitution.

But the worse error in Senator Biden’s remarks, as compared to America’s own constitutional history, was his claim that to be successful, Iraq had to write a “consensus constitution,” acceptable to its neighbors. Is the Senator totally ignorant of recent history? Money, fighters and weapons are leaking into Iraq across its borders with Iran and Syria. Just today, Americans captured a tanker truck that came in from Iran which concealed thousands of forged ballots for the current Iraq election.

What kind of constitution would Iraq have, if its neighbors who want it to fail, had any kind of approval rights over it? None.

The same answer comes from American history. What kind of Constitution would we have written and ratified if it had to be by “consensus” with our neighbors? Our neighbors were then Britain, which still controlled Canada, and France, which still controlled the Louisiana Territory. We, too, would have never achieved our Constitution, under conditions like those that Senator Biden said are essential.

But Americans in reading or watching the news would be totally unaware of the American history which demonstrates that Senator Biden’s remarks are foolish, from the MSM coverage of Bush’s speech. Only 6 of the 128 hits from “Articles of Confederation” on Google News are news stories. Most of the rest are the full text of the Bush speech. Most Americans don’t read the whole text of speeches, nor watch them live in full on TV.

The simple fact is that the MSM, because they are lazy, foolish or biased, buried the lede. The important comparison between American and Iraqi constitution writing, including initial and major failures, was edited out of almost all news stories about that speech. So, the comparison which demonstrated in advance that Senator Biden’s remarks are downright foolish, wasn’t presented.

Contrary to the way that history is (mis)taught in American schools today, history did not begin yesterday. The history of America’s constitution writing is directly relevant to the current history of Iraq’s similar efforts today. And these facts were presented by the President, but largely ignored by the MSM.

John_Armor@aya.yale.edu


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Editorial; Extended News; Foreign Affairs; Free Republic; Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; US: North Carolina; US: Pennsylvania; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: 109th; biden; britain; brithume; bush43; confederation; consitution; france; georgebush; googlenews; iran; iraq; joebiden; louisianaterritory; specialreport; syria; victorystrategy; yorktown
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This is my latest article for Newsbusters. The fact that Senator Biden is a foolish man who says foolish things, is no secret to political junkies like those here. But his foolishness is protected in this instance by the fact that the MSM did not bother to report the part of George Bush's speech which demonstrates that fact.

I think y'all will find this interesting.

John / Billybob

1 posted on 12/13/2005 10:46:46 PM PST by Congressman Billybob
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To: Congressman Billybob

PING


2 posted on 12/13/2005 10:48:42 PM PST by SideoutFred (Save us from the Looney Left)
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To: Congressman Billybob

Good stuff, Congressman. Keep up the good work in conservatism. We always need you.


3 posted on 12/13/2005 10:49:27 PM PST by Herford Turley (Conservatism will save America)
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To: Congressman Billybob
I simply can't think of anything more appropriate than:

What a total ass.

4 posted on 12/13/2005 10:50:13 PM PST by Darkwolf377 (An agnostic who never, ever says "Happy Holidays")
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To: Congressman Billybob

Really good article.


5 posted on 12/13/2005 10:51:15 PM PST by GeronL (Leftism is the INSANE Cult of the Artificial)
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To: Congressman Billybob
Iraq had to write a “consensus constitution,” acceptable to its neighbors

if he said that then there is no hope for sanity.

6 posted on 12/13/2005 10:52:00 PM PST by GeronL (Leftism is the INSANE Cult of the Artificial)
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To: Congressman Billybob

Biden is 4 cents short of a dime, his elevator stops short of his top floor, he is a useless piece of lying crap.


7 posted on 12/13/2005 10:54:19 PM PST by Dustbunny (Main Stream Media -- Making 'Max Headroom' a reality.)
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To: Darkwolf377
What a total ass.

That too.

8 posted on 12/13/2005 10:55:12 PM PST by Dustbunny (Main Stream Media -- Making 'Max Headroom' a reality.)
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To: Congressman Billybob

Biden is the only real threat to Boxer for the dimmest bulb title.


9 posted on 12/13/2005 10:56:09 PM PST by ncountylee (Dead terrorists smell like victory)
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To: Congressman Billybob

bttt


10 posted on 12/13/2005 10:57:02 PM PST by nopardons
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To: Congressman Billybob






11 posted on 12/13/2005 10:57:31 PM PST by devolve (<-- (--in a manner reminiscent of Senator Ghengis Kohn--)
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To: GeronL
Biden said exactly that, in front of God and everybody. I TiVo'ed his comments and played them back repeatedly, until I had them dead right. (Or, perhaps dead wrong would be the correct phrase.) Yes, Biden is brass-plated, wall-to-wall fool.

But part of the problem in exposing his foolishness is that the MSM did NOT (with a few exceptions like the Washington Times) report the historical facts Bush carefully laid out in his speech yesterday, which demonstrate that Biden is a fool.

John / Billybob
12 posted on 12/13/2005 11:00:22 PM PST by Congressman Billybob (Do you think Fitzpatrick resembled Captain Queeg, coming apart on the witness stand?)
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To: Congressman Billybob

Joe Biden really has to make one reconsider the practice of birthright citizenship.


13 posted on 12/13/2005 11:02:05 PM PST by msnimje (http://weblogawards.org/2005/12/best_blog.php .. VOTE FOR MALKIN (everyday) -- DON'T LET KOS WIN!!)
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To: Congressman Billybob

Good God. I always knew that biden was both a blithering idiot and a traitor, but this has to be among his most idiotic yappings ever.

If he was consistent in his thoughts, then any bill that he or his cohorts propose MUST be approved by Canada, Mexico, Kofi and NATO too.

To the devil with him and all his kind.


14 posted on 12/13/2005 11:11:27 PM PST by LegendHasIt
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To: Congressman Billybob
Considering that the MSM allows the Dems to say something and then deny they ever said it, in a couple of days it might be redacted. Just like Dean saying we couldn't win the war and that Sheehan didn't say America wasn't worth dying for and all that.

Its an Orwellian Media Conspiracy apparently.

15 posted on 12/13/2005 11:15:22 PM PST by GeronL (Leftism is the INSANE Cult of the Artificial)
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To: Congressman Billybob

Biden claims we failed to get a "consensus Constitution" in Iraq, yet 78% of Iraqi voters voted FOR the constitution. In a country "on the verge of civil war" and that had "no hope" of ever coming to any accord on any issue, according to insufferable boobs like Biden and his lame-brained fawning buddies in the media, because of the 3 divided ethnic groups that make up Iraq, I'd say 78% is a pretty damned healthy bit of agreement in a country where it was said there would never be any. Our constitution certainly didn't have that kind of backing. And you'd be damned hard-pressed to get American voters to agree to anything by a 78% majority.

I'd even go so far as to bet that 78% is a higher percentage than voted for Joe Biden in his last senate run, even in a wacko useless leftist state like Delaware. I guess since he's not a "consensus" candidate he better resign.

Since when is democracy about consensus?? Consensus is what we had when 99.9% of the Iraqis "voted for" Saddam. Democracy is about the clash of ideas and then voters having the right by majority say to implement those ideas and to put those candidates in office. Everyone not agreeing to something does not indicate that an idea or candidate is invalid. It means in the healthy and democratic exchange of ideas opposing opinions were heard and were able to sway a minority of the electorate which is as it should be. Why is that bad Joe? Losen up the stitches on the toupee Joe...you friggin' putz.


16 posted on 12/13/2005 11:15:46 PM PST by MikeA
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To: MikeA

Haha! Kerry didn't even take Marin County, California--the bastion of leftwing kook morons--by that margin.


17 posted on 12/13/2005 11:57:30 PM PST by CheyennePress
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To: Congressman Billybob

Don't agree with the analysis, but I'll tell you what. Between the other dems DEMANDING a pullout, and Biden asserting that we WILL pull out if things are BAD, I suspect that Bush plans to begin the pull out any day, as soon as elections put a government in place.

Once we're out, he'll be on political Cloud Nine, with higher approval ratings, et al. Dems are trying to position themselves, some to take credit, others (like Biden here) to assert that it's a sign Bush failed.


18 posted on 12/13/2005 11:57:49 PM PST by The Old Hoosier (Right makes might.)
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To: Congressman Billybob

there's a reason that the great one (mark levin) calls the plagiarist, the dumbest man in the senate.


19 posted on 12/14/2005 12:19:05 AM PST by JohnLongIsland
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To: Congressman Billybob

The Left believes in "consensus" (otherwise defined as "minority rights") in all things, except when they're in charge (or in doctored opinion polling, when the "vox populi" must rule).


20 posted on 12/14/2005 12:29:48 AM PST by pawdoggie
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To: Congressman Billybob

Obviously Senator Chia pet's hair plugs were place so deep that they disrupted the connection between his two brain cells.


21 posted on 12/14/2005 12:30:14 AM PST by Brofholdonow
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To: ncountylee

"Biden is the only real threat to Boxer for the dimmest bulb title."

I will call with Cynthia McKinney and Sheila Jackson-Lee, and raise you 2 with Barbara Lee and Maxine Waters.

I think you should fold :-)


22 posted on 12/14/2005 12:42:38 AM PST by American in Singapore (Who needs Comedy Central when we have liberals?)
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To: American in Singapore

Senate vrs House...but that's a whole lot of dumb.


23 posted on 12/14/2005 1:48:16 AM PST by ncountylee (Dead terrorists smell like victory)
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To: Congressman Billybob

"MSM buries Biden spineless, stamina-less, stupidities"
is more like it.


24 posted on 12/14/2005 2:04:47 AM PST by Baby Driver
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To: ncountylee
Biden is the only real threat to Boxer for the dimmest bulb title.

So many names, so little time.

25 posted on 12/14/2005 2:46:57 AM PST by patj
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To: Congressman Billybob
I'm watching the replay from his speech yesterday. It's on c-span now.....Biden is using his version of the baseball analogy that we are in the eighth inning in Iraq & he alleges GWB has committed four errors.....

Funny, base ball is known to be the President's favorite game and Judge Roberts used it in simple & clear way during his hearings.

So in runs Joe with his own baseball metaphor(look at me I'm presidential too-I know baseball Joe / look at me-I'm as smart at choosing baseball quips as the smartest man in our generation to be a SC Justice) acting like he is the all-knowing announcer at the game.

Sorry Joe, no matter how much you are rooting for the other team:
"The game's not over til it's over"
26 posted on 12/14/2005 4:07:58 AM PST by chgomac
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To: Congressman Billybob; Constitution Day; TaxRelief; 100%FEDUP; 2ndMostConservativeBrdMember; ...

NC *Ping*

Please FRmail Constitution Day OR TaxRelief OR Alia if you want to be added to or removed from this North Carolina ping list.
27 posted on 12/14/2005 4:16:49 AM PST by Alia
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To: Congressman Billybob
Picasso painted Biden and the rest of the coalition of the quivering when he portrayed those people with both eyes on one side of their head, mouths agape, fingers pressed to temples.

Eventually, evolution will catch up with these flounders and labels like left/right will become obsolete as they will be readily identified.

28 posted on 12/14/2005 4:37:51 AM PST by Simo Hayha (An education is incomplete without instruction in the use of arms to defend oneself from harm.)
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To: Congressman Billybob
Pieces like this are exactly why we are slowly but surely winning in the war against the old media. Biden-Biden is just like all evil donkeys. They just can't allow themselves to accept that the lemmings can find the truth for themselves. If they did accept this reality they would have no reason to get out of bed in the morning. Without the ability to lie and be backed up in their lies by the old media they have no power over us. The truth shall always make us free!
Thanks for this fine piece of work, Congressman Billybob.
29 posted on 12/14/2005 4:44:14 AM PST by jmaroneps37 (We will never murtha to the terrorists. Bring home the troops means bring home the war.)
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To: Congressman Billybob
Our neighbors were then Britain, which still controlled Canada, and France, which still controlled the Louisiana Territory.

If memory serves, I think the Spanish controlled the Louisana territory at the time, but your point is well taken -- Biden is indeed an idiot.

30 posted on 12/14/2005 4:50:56 AM PST by Ditto ( No trees were killed in sending this message, but billions of electrons were inconvenienced.)
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To: Congressman Billybob
But Americans in reading or watching the news would be totally unaware of the American history which demonstrates that Senator Biden’s remarks are foolish, from the MSM coverage of Bush’s speech.

And then many are foolish enough to try to make a comparison between the founding of this nation of states to Iraq's third 'founding' this century when in fact it is impossible.

31 posted on 12/14/2005 6:07:36 AM PST by billbears (Deo Vindice)
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To: Dustbunny
Biden is 4 cents short of a dime, his elevator stops short of his top floor, he is a useless piece of lying crap.

yea...and other disparaging antidotes detailing Bidens uselessness. :)

32 posted on 12/14/2005 6:22:39 AM PST by smith288 (Peace at all cost makes for tyranny free of charge...)
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To: MikeA

John Murtha actually said that the 29% of Iraqis that think their country is going in the wrong direction was way too high, and was a recipe for disaster, suggesting that if that many americans had thought that during our revolution that we never would have been a country, or something like that.

I can't find the quote now, I heard him on the radio while I was driving.


33 posted on 12/14/2005 8:46:08 AM PST by CharlesWayneCT
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To: American in Singapore

And I don't mean to be racist, but why is it that all the really dumb house members are black?

I think it is because gerrymandering guarantees these seats to black people, and the appeal to that constituency doesn't seem to favor reasoned thinking. But I can't figure out why that would be the case.

I actually think that there are a lot of house members, and several other senators, who are as dumb as these people, they just know to keep their mouths shut.


34 posted on 12/14/2005 8:48:40 AM PST by CharlesWayneCT
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To: billbears
Why do you persist in contending that history is irrelevant? You are aware, I hope, that the Framers looked back as much as 2,000 years into the history of Roman and Greek city states, in deciding on the proper forms of American government that they were creating.

Were they wrong to do that? Or, are you wrong to ignore George Santayana's caution, "Those who forget their history are condemned to repeat it"?

If you want more recent history that even you could not decry as irrelevant, look at the "nation-building" which General MacArthur in Japan and General Eisenhower in Germany, after WW II. Germany is especially relevant, in light of the assassinations and sabotage that the werewolves carried out for years after being created by the Nazis to do exactly that, after the end of the war in Europe.

Congressman Billybob

Latest column: "My Friend, Gene McCarthy, 1916-2005"

35 posted on 12/14/2005 9:30:17 AM PST by Congressman Billybob (Do you think Fitzpatrick resembled Captain Queeg, coming apart on the witness stand?)
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To: CharlesWayneCT
I hadn't heard that particular Murtha stupidity. During the American Revolution, about one-third of Americans were Loyalists, or Tories. (Many of them fled to the coast of Canada in Halifax.) By Murtha's ignorant analogy, we should have abandoned the American Revolution.

What a putz. But I also condemn the American press for their ignorance of history, and their failure to use facts side by side with Murtha's ignorant comments, so the readers can see how foolish his comments are. I don't expect them to CALL him "foolish." I DO expect them to publish the facts from which the readers can logically conclude that he IS foolish.

John / Billybob
36 posted on 12/14/2005 9:39:46 AM PST by Congressman Billybob (Do you think Fitzpatrick resembled Captain Queeg, coming apart on the witness stand?)
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To: Congressman Billybob

Still can't find it. BTW, I hear that the story about the forged ballots was false.


37 posted on 12/14/2005 9:41:15 AM PST by CharlesWayneCT
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To: Congressman Billybob

An excellent post. I'm emailing it around the country right now.


38 posted on 12/14/2005 9:43:37 AM PST by Howlin
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To: CharlesWayneCT
Look at how crummy the schools are in districts like Sheila Jackson ("men on Mars") Lee. Look at how many students drop out of even those poor schools, though the "graduation" requirement is that you can sign your own name and haven't stabbed a teacher, recently.

As H.L. Mencken observed, "Americans get the government they deserve. Good and hard."

John / Billybob
39 posted on 12/14/2005 9:45:05 AM PST by Congressman Billybob (Do you think Fitzpatrick resembled Captain Queeg, coming apart on the witness stand?)
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To: CharlesWayneCT

John Murtha actually said that the 29% of Iraqis that think their country is going in the wrong direction was way too high, and was a recipe for disaster, suggesting that if that many americans had thought that during our revolution that we never would have been a country, or something like that.

How does that fat doughboy Murtha know that many Americans DID NOT think that during the revolution and its aftermath?? Things were incredibly rough during those times. The fat slob might try picking up a book on some history of the American revolution. 1776 by David McCollough would be a good start.

And far more Americans than 29% now think things are headed in the wrong direction, though god knows why. Our economy is as sound as it's ever been, we have more money in our pockets and more comforts in our home than ever before. But whiney, spoiled Americans just want everything perfect or it's not good enough. Wahhhh, get over it. You've never had it so good.


40 posted on 12/14/2005 10:06:14 AM PST by MikeA
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To: Congressman Billybob

They do not call him Slow Joe Biden for nothing. The inside the Beltway thinking that Biden is the Democrat Senate's "intellectual powerhouse" demonstrates just how empty the Democrat Leadership currently is of anyone with any real political talent or intellectual ability. Must really suck to be a Democrat these days when THAT rapidly aging double digit IQ Dinosaur is the best your party can put up as a spokesperson.


41 posted on 12/14/2005 10:22:39 AM PST by MNJohnnie ("My job as the President is to see the world the way it is, not the way we hope it is." -GW Bush)
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To: billbears; Congressman Billybob
then many are foolish enough to try to make a comparison between the founding of this nation of states to Iraq's third 'founding

The Continental Congress, the Articles of Confederation and the US Constitution. Seems we too are on our "third" founding as well BB.

Really sad how childish so many elderly Americans, such as billbears, are clinging so desperately to their delusions about Iraq. They seem despeate to avoid the reality that it is the same failed ideology of the "Realists", like billbears, which created this Islamic Fundamentalist mess to start with

Really sad that certain Freepers lack the emotional or intellectual ability to admit how grotesquely wrong their Neo-Isolationist dogma is in a post 9-11 world. Sorry but the bad men are not going to go way just cause YOU want to hide under your bed and wish them away BB.

42 posted on 12/14/2005 10:36:09 AM PST by MNJohnnie ("My job as the President is to see the world the way it is, not the way we hope it is." -GW Bush)
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To: Congressman Billybob
Why do you persist in contending that history is irrelevant? You are aware, I hope, that the Framers looked back as much as 2,000 years into the history of Roman and Greek city states, in deciding on the proper forms of American government that they were creating.

Indeed they did. But they also had 500 years of democratization to build on. It was within their culture and had been growing for close to half a millenium. Care to tell us what the Muslim community was doing 500 years ago? Being that history is so relevant, I would look to their past to see if they are ready for a Republic. As there are few if any Muslim writers praising the aspects of democracy in the past 500 years, one may question whether or not it will work, or even if they want it to work. BTW, how many Muslim run nations are Republics, Democracies, or any form of Western government again? Out of how many?

Were they wrong to do that? Or, are you wrong to ignore George Santayana's caution, "Those who forget their history are condemned to repeat it"?

Alas, I am not the one ignoring. Rather the past 100 years of history in Iraq could have taught us, westernization in several forms has been tried, and failed. But carry on. They will be a theocracy within a generation

If you want more recent history that even you could not decry as irrelevant, look at the "nation-building" which General MacArthur in Japan and General Eisenhower in Germany, after WW II. Germany is especially relevant, in light of the assassinations and sabotage that the werewolves carried out for years after being created by the Nazis to do exactly that, after the end of the war in Europe.

Simply sad. You paraphrased Santanyana's statement and yet you yourself forget both Japan and Germany had started, and had a working form of, republican government before intervention by these United States and prior to WWII. Also you are missing that aspect of religion controlling one's whole life in both nations.

43 posted on 12/14/2005 10:57:04 AM PST by billbears (Deo Vindice)
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To: billbears
How pathetic. You believe that political views are genetically transmitted. By your standard, Americans should all be monarchists. And under your theory, there is no possible explanation of the students who demonstrated and died in Tienanmen Square in China.

After all, those demonstrators were all raised from birth, aggressively, as communists. And yet, they put up a replica of the Statue of Liberty, and quoted liberally from Thomas Jefferson.

You reject the idea that a new generation in any nation can choose a radically different political path than their parents. I'm sorry you have such a benighted view of the capacity of human beings to change.

I'd rather stake my future on the views of Thomas Jefferson and Thomas Paine, that the ideas of King George III. LOL.

John / Billybob
44 posted on 12/14/2005 11:10:32 AM PST by Congressman Billybob (Do you think Fitzpatrick resembled Captain Queeg, coming apart on the witness stand?)
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To: Congressman Billybob
How pathetic. You believe that political views are genetically transmitted

You know I do believe you are an idiot. I'm sorry but at no point did I say that nor did I insinuate it. My point was that the culture of Western nations, England in particular, and political actions within said nations brought about a very slow move toward republican government. A move that began with the Magna Carta and peaked at the time of the American Revolution. Tell us, since you claim such a knowledge of history. What has been the culture of the Islamic nations for the past 500 years? The Iraqis may get it. However it won't be next week, next month, or next year. It won't be in the next decade either. If their form of government is still holding in a generation, I would hold out a small hope for it. Of course the last time popular government was introduced in Iraq, it took less than a generation for it to be overrun

And under your theory, there is no possible explanation of the students who demonstrated and died in Tienanmen Square in China. After all, those demonstrators were all raised from birth, aggressively, as communists. And yet, they put up a replica of the Statue of Liberty, and quoted liberally from Thomas Jefferson.

By that argument, if we're to believe your simplistic version of the world, the English monarchy should have come crashing down once Locke's writings were released in the 1690s. It takes decades, if not centuries of lone voices, sometimes small groups, not only quoting past dissidents, but living (and dying) towards an ideal of a Republic. Of course history shows us this. And since you have 'learned' from history, you should know this.

China will eventually fall. Not from outside influences but because of the people within the nation. Of course again they don't have to tell with the rigors of Islam, which will help.

You reject the idea that a new generation in any nation can choose a radically different political path than their parents. I'm sorry you have such a benighted view of the capacity of human beings to change.

In no fashion at all. I am just not as naive to believe the Iraqis, or any nation for that matter, will wake up overnight and understand the importance of having a Republic.

But do carry on Oliver. It only took the English 10 years to run back to a monarchy, the only question in the minds of the realists is how long will it take for Iraq to return to a theocracy. Of course I suppose if it's popularly elected you'll have no problem with it?

I also notice for some reason you chose not to address the historical references refuting your tired talking points. Perhaps in your next post you could do something about that, although I doubt it.

I do hope Iraq eventually becomes a Republic, not a democracy. I don't hold much hope for it, especially after speaking to several friends who have returned from Iraq in the past few weeks. If they do eventually morph into one, it will not be because of US involvement but because the Iraqis choose it. The best possible solution would be to split the region into three parts. One for the Kurds, one for the Sunnis, and one for the Shiites. And that very well may eventually happen on it's own. Everything else instituted in that nation by Western countries in the past century has fallen apart, why shouldn't that too?

45 posted on 12/14/2005 11:52:25 AM PST by billbears (Deo Vindice)
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To: billbears
One word refutes all that you argue.

Athens.

The City-State of Athens, birthplace of democracy in the Western World, created its successful democratic republic in a single generation. It did that out of whole cloth, from a long-time, previously existing dictatorship.

Or, another example: Kemal Ataturk.

He was an absolute dictator who left power and transformed Turkey instantaneously into a successful, secular democratic republic.

I'll give you a third example: Alexander Kerensky (whom I had the honor to meet):

For just a year, he transformed the Czarist dictatorship of Russia into a democratic republic, until the Bolsheviks took over by force. (Bolsheviks, by the way, means only "majority," which they never had during their entire regime.)

To repeat, all your prattle about "culture" amounts to an argument that serfdom, monarchies, tyrannies, are all genetic. If you are born into that, you cannot survive in another form of government.

And apparently, you do not understand the provisions of the new Iraqi constitution. It does create a regional, federal democracy not unlike the Cantons of Switzerland, which was a necessary accommodation to its four different linguistic groups, and has survived for 500 years, give or take a few decades.

You have trouble understanding the necessary consequences of your own arguments about "culture" determining the politics of the next generation. When you do not understand your own argument, it is a fatal defect to your participation in a productive debate.

John / Billybob
46 posted on 12/14/2005 12:48:26 PM PST by Congressman Billybob (Do you think Fitzpatrick resembled Captain Queeg, coming apart on the witness stand?)
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To: Congressman Billybob; XJarhead
"Nonsense From Biden" is no story. The man could add LeBron James's current scoring average to his IQ and he'd still struggle for triple digits.

On a different note, Congressman, all that time to dig into Judge Alito doesn't seem to have resulted in much fodder for the Borkers, has it? Tough to assassinate the character of a good man during the Christmas Season I think.

Nevertheless, we all need to bundle up, go outside every week or so and make sure the powder is still dry and the barrels well-greased. I don't like to get cocky, but I'm feeling like General Lee at Fredericksburg knowing that idiot Burnside is about to attack our well-entrenched lines. (Although, to be fair, I think Burnside was a better strategerist than Biden).

47 posted on 12/14/2005 12:59:13 PM PST by You Dirty Rats (I Love Free Republic!)
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To: Congressman Billybob; billbears

Better examples would be Germany and Japan. These were two countries with no real democratic heritage at the time we conquered them in 1945. (In Japan's case, it had been in the Middle Ages until 1854). Lots of people thought neither of those countries could develop free, democratic systems either; one swift boot to ass from the USA cured that nonsense.


48 posted on 12/14/2005 1:03:38 PM PST by You Dirty Rats (I Love Free Republic!)
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To: Congressman Billybob
There is a mis-statement in the article that you should correct.

" Just today, Americans captured a tanker truck that came in from Iran which concealed thousands of forged ballots for the current Iraq election."

This story, which appeared in the New York Times this morning, is apparently false. Reuters says that it could find no confirmation and statements from the Iraq Border Police said the border has been closed since Tuesday and no trucks have been allowed through. U.S. military represenative said there are safeguards against the use of forged ballots and use of a large number would be caught.

My info came from Rush's show this morning..

49 posted on 12/14/2005 1:14:05 PM PST by HardStarboard (Read Stephen Hayes "Spooked White House" - Weekly Standard. It explains a an awful lot.)
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To: HardStarboard
Thanks. Already made the correction on Newsbusters.org. FreeRepublic, however, doesn't have a method for posters to correct the text of their posts.

John / Billybob
50 posted on 12/14/2005 1:18:21 PM PST by Congressman Billybob (Do you think Fitzpatrick resembled Captain Queeg, coming apart on the witness stand?)
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