Posted on 12/14/2005 5:03:15 AM PST by governsleastgovernsbest
by Mark Finkelstein
December 14, 2005 - 07:04.
"We recognize the right of all women to choose whether, when, and under what circumstances to bear children. Reproductive freedom and responsibility are essential to other rights and opportunities, including pursuit of education, employment, financial security and a stable and fulfilling family life. Restrictions of reproductive choice are especially burdensome for young women and poor women. Girls Incorporated supports a woman’s freedom of choice, a constitutional right established by the U.S. Supreme Court in 1973 in Roe vs. Wade."
Would you say the foregoing statement, from Girls Inc. [see it here http://www.girlsinc.org/ic/page.php?id=4.3.4 on the Girls Inc. web site]:
A. Is an unequivocal 'pro-choice' position; or
B. Simply "favors an open discussion about abortion"?
If you chose 'A', I'd say you're grounded in reality. If you chose 'B', you are probably a writer/producer for the Early Show at CBS.
The matter arose in the context of an Early Show segment on American Girl [AG], a company that markets a successful line of dolls and other materials for girls. The segment focused on a new AG ad campaign called "Save Girlhood" which, as described by CBS reporter Mika Brzezinski, "calls on parents to preserve the magic of childhood and rejects the vampy messages barraging pre-teens."
Continued Brzezinski:
"The ad campaign may also be helping the company to refocus after controversy this year over the company's affiliation with Girls, Inc., an organization that supports underprivileged girls but also favors an open discussion of abortion."
"Save Girlhood" is AG's first-ever major ad campaign in 20 years, but a clip was played from ad agency rep claiming with a straight face that they had "concepted this" [don't you love the way Madison Ave. people talk?] well before the controversy came out."
Right. Pure coincidence.
For CBS and the Early Show, an explicit statement that Girls, Inc. "supports a woman's freedom of choice" and Roe v. Wade is nothing more than support for "an open discussion of abortion."
If another doll maker was found to be affiliated with a group whose web site contained a statementidentical statement to that of Girls, Inc., with the sole difference being that the language on supporting abortion and Roe was modifed by 'not', do you think CBS would likewise describe the group as supporting "an open discusssion on abortion"?
Neither do I.
Early Show ping to the Today Show ping list.
"We recognize the right of all women to choose whether, when, and under what circumstances to bear children."
Unless, of course, they are women who are still in the womb, in which case Girls Inc. supports their right to be murdered.
Isn't it ironic that the same people who insist that a woman should be able to kill her unborn baby also insist that the same women do not have a right to defend themselves from harm by keeping and bearing arms? The Second Amendment isn't only about men. It's about the people.
In other words the slogan could say: We recognize the right of all women to choose whether, or when, and under what circumstances to kill children.
Charming...
freedom of choice, a constitutional right established by the U.S. Supreme Court in 1973 in Roe vs. Wade."
At least they were honest. In this case the Supreme Court created a right. Usually amending the Constitution is a bit more complicated than that.
Great point!!
I'm pro-choice: buy the dolls or don't buy the dolls, I don't care.
Thanks
This subject really gets my blood boiling.
Only voters can create rights in a State or the Federal constitution.
Troll.
bu-bye
I have the right not to buy American Girl products, I have the right to tell American Girl what I think of their affiliation with this group.
I have and although this would be the year that my little one would go to the AG store to pick out her doll, the Walmart knock-off is just the thing to give her instead. It's 15.00 for the same cheap piece of plastic.
And I did write American Girl to tell them this. They never responded.
If anyone needs one of these dolls, try used on E-Bay.
So you believe that abortion is just another method of birth-control?
Why do you think I'm a troll? I said the choice is to buy the doll or not buy the doll, and I'm pro-choice on whatever you decide about that. If any company's political stance or other aspects of how it does business doesn't fly with you, you can vote with your wallet. In what way does that make me a "troll"?
How did you get that out of my statement that you have a right to buy or not buy a DOLL? I haven't been here long, but some posters here jump to some pretty huge conclusions.
And yes, some people can be quick to jump on tagging you as a Troll...probably just anxious to get a whiff of ozone or something.
Thanks for the welcome. I see I'm going to have to sometimes type V E R Y S L O W L Y..... ;-D
You said that you were pro-choice... stating that without qualifications, one would assume you were for abortion-on-demand. Are you?
I shouted this at a "women's rights" heckler at a pro-life march. Shut her right up.
My statement was this, precisely:
"I'm pro-choice: buy the dolls or don't buy the dolls, I don't care."
The colon after "pro-choice" refers to the statement about buying dolls. Remember English class in sixth grade? :)
Be very careful. You are being watched.
Being watched? ooooo, scarrrrrryyyyy.....;-D
I don't give a rats a$$ about the dolls... answer my question.
I certainly don't HAVE to answer your question, however much you stamp your foot. :) Abortion is not an emotional, personal issue for me, as it seems to be for some here. I am more interested in it as a public policy question and a legal question.
I think abortion is something that should happen a lot less than it does; those who are so against contraception and things like the morning after pill are spiting themselves in a way I don't understand, since it guarantees that more abortions will be incurred.
I remember when abortion was illegal, and I remember that it made no particular difference as long as you (or your parents) had money. The same would happen again. Abortion has always been obtainable and always will be, whether we like it or not.
I also don't see the point in ranting against women who have had them and calling them names; everyone here knows women they know and care about who have had abortions - they may simply not be AWARE that they have. That's just reality.
I think this is a problem that will ultimately be solved by technology rather than legal prohibition.
And I used to buy American Girl dolls for my god-daughters years ago, but now they have grown out of that stage.
Flame away. I look at this question pragmatically rather than hysterically, so I expect to meet with your disapproval.
You might try using a little reading comprehension.
Would you call someone a troll if they said: I'm for gun control, especially a good sight picture and a steady trigger squeeze. Obviously, the "pro-choice" remark referred specifically to the buying of the dolls.
I think your troll detector needs a calibration.
Funny, you sound rather hysterical. The oddest thing happened to me. We did a probe on my son while he was in the womb and damnd if he wasn't born many months later. The doctor said it was the exact same child. Go figure.
"Funny, you sound rather hysterical."
I don't see a single exclamation point in the whole thing. :)
"The oddest thing happened to me. We did a probe on my son while he was in the womb and damnd if he wasn't born many months later. The doctor said it was the exact same child."
Wow. :) Did he also fill you in on what caused it? ;-D
I never called her a troll... and I comprehend just fine Bob.
You say you look at abortion "pragmatically rather than hysterically."
But your statement says you view abortion amorally. No conscience about it at all. Remember English class?
Sorry if it sounded "amoral". I certainly have my own conscience about abortion, but do not see the feasibility of forcing it on others. There are things which fall into the category of "sin" which society does not prosecute as "crime"; this is one of them (in my opinion).
Why be sorry about your deeply held feelings?
You are what you are.
I think you are a troll because you signed up six days ago, put a vague post up then insulted those who read it.
How about his sentance structure.....
"I am Pro-choice when it comes to buying this merchandise....."
Makes things much more readable doesn't it?
Here's some help in using colons if you are being genuine.
http://www.uhv.edu/ac/student/writing/grammartip072704.html
And here's a hint for newbies, if posters have read your response and they don't understand what you wrote, best to clarify instead of getting rude.
Just a hint!
Welcome to FR.
Well, he made it clear that he didn't "care" what I wrote about the American Girl question, he just wanted a point-blank opinion about abortion.
And if I was rude, I have a long way to go before I can match some of the things I have seen in six days on this board! Yes, I'm new, but that doesn't necessarily mean transient.
And when it comes to "clarification", I'll clarify for the other poster that I meant "sorry" in a female way, which Deborah Tannen says is very different from a male way - men use "Sorry" to mean an apology for personal culpability. A woman can say "Sorry it rained", which is commiseration, not taking responsibility for the rain. I hope that helps him understand what I was saying.
>>And if I was rude, I have a long way to go before I can match some of the things I have seen in six days on this board! Yes, I'm new, but that doesn't necessarily mean transient.<<
Yes, but you will also learn that the newer you are, the ruder you are considered.
I still have original FReepers who call me a baby because I wasn't in on the Clinton scandals.
Best to be still and learn. I did for a while. When someone asks you if you are Pro-Choice because your answer was unclear, just say "no" (or "yes" if that's the case) and you will make allies here. Being evasive will not make friends.
And trust me, sarcastic is a FReeper's middle name. The DUers cuss, we "smackdown".
Thanks for your suggestions and guidance. I will follow them with varying rates of success. :-D
You should do fine here. You can defend yourself with facts and opinion, and you have a sense of humor.
Welcome.
Why, thank you very much! I try to state only facts I can validate, my opinions are solely my own, and the sense of humor is indispensable when people around you think rage equals purity of thought. ;-)
"Wow. :) Did he also fill you in on what caused it? ;-D"
No but he did manage to establish a chain of custody between the fetus in the womb and the child in the crib. That would seem to imply that every abortion kills a baby. Luckily, he was able to blip right past it. Good for him considering he was the abortionist in town. I bet that ability comes in right handy for all pro-choicers.
"Congratulations on your baby. When are you due?"
vs
"Don't worry. It's not a baby. It's just a fetus"
spoken by the same person
later read/pingout.
Sorry for the late reply. I'm glad to watch FOX News reruns until 6 AM. You do us such a service keeping an eye on the MSM. Thanks for the ping.
I happen to think you will have a hard time here if you keep saying stuff like this. You say abortion "should happen a lot less than it does", which are weasle words that mean you're okay with it if it's inconvienient. Stupid comments like "those who are against contraception and...the morning after pill" reveal your little bias against Catholisism and most likely Christianity in general. No, you'll be getting lots of debate practice on that bovine substance.
Well, I don't see how I can have a "hard time" here; all people can do is disagree with me by typing on a screen. :)
I have no anti-Catholic bias; not only Catholics but some evangelical people who are real social conservatives are anti-contraception, so my comment had no religious slant to it, however you might have perceived it. And I am Christian, myself.
I'm not alone in this opinion; I visited a board about Plan B this afternoon where someone else was making the same argument about the benefit of preventing abortion. Not all conservatives march in lock-step on every issue. (No, really, it's true!)
Just some I have encountered on different message boards. I don't claim it's a scientific survey. And Christian, believe it or not, is not an equivalent term to evangelical.
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