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Christian Defense Coalition Calls for the Senate to Block Passage of the Patriot Act Renewal
Christian Communication Network ^ | Dec. 15

Posted on 12/15/2005 12:28:40 PM PST by JTN

The Christian Defense Coalition Director says in many cases "national security" has become more important than protecting the First Amendment and civil liberties.

Coalition especially concerned about the Patriot Act defining terrorism as "... .to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion."

Those definitions are so broad it is an open invitation for the government to harass and attack any groups who use public demonstrations or peaceful civil disobedience to "influence" government policy.

Organization cites the improper use of the federal RICO laws against non-violent pro-life activists as a clear example of how the Patriot Act could be used against a broad spectrum of political and social activist groups.

Rev. Patrick J. Mahoney, Director of the Christian Defense Coalition, comments, "It is our hope that the Senate will block passage of the renewal of the Patriot Act and craft legislation that will more carefully protect and safeguard civil liberties and the First Amendment. Sadly with the passage of the Patriot Act, a climate and culture has been created in which 'national security' has become more important than protecting civil liberties. The result has been the First Amendment has become the 'second victim' of 9/11 and the rights of peaceful demonstrators trampled. For example, in the name of 'national security' I was arrested on a public sidewalk at the Salt Lake Olympics for holding a sign which said God bless America. And for the sake of 'national security', I was arrested on a Washington, D.C. public sidewalk for holding a sign of the Ten Commandments in front of St. Matthew's Cathedral during the annual Red Mass."


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: 109th; billofrights; catholiclist; christian; christianlist; constitutionlist; govwatch; libertarians; patriot; patriotact; privacylist; religion; terrorism; terrorwar; usapatriotact; wot

1 posted on 12/15/2005 12:28:43 PM PST by JTN
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To: JeffAtlanta; albertp; Allosaurs_r_us; Abram; AlexandriaDuke; Americanwolf; Annie03; Baby Bear; ...
Libertarian ping
2 posted on 12/15/2005 12:30:27 PM PST by JTN ("We must win the War on Drugs by 2003." - Dennis Hastert, Feb. 25 1999)
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To: JTN

Another group that doesn't understand the Patriot act and bows at the feet of the strawman slippery slope arguments. I bet they actually believe that the goverment is tracking all their library books.


3 posted on 12/15/2005 12:34:03 PM PST by mnehring (“Anybody who doesn’t appreciate what America has done and President Bush, let them go to hell”...)
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To: JTN

Related article from 2002: Patriot Act another RICO?


4 posted on 12/15/2005 12:35:36 PM PST by sheltonmac (QUIS CUSTODIET IPSOS CUSTODES)
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To: mnehrling
Another group that doesn't understand the Patriot act and bows at the feet of the strawman slippery slope arguments.The American Conservative Union as well as the Gun Owners of America oppose renewing the PATRIOT Act as well. Those are two organizations I tend to trust on things like this.
5 posted on 12/15/2005 12:36:47 PM PST by jmc813
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To: JTN

Who are these nutcases? Leftwing liars, standard apostates
or infiltrators?


6 posted on 12/15/2005 12:37:04 PM PST by justshutupandtakeit (Public Enemy #1, the RATmedia.)
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To: mnehrling

Why do I get the feeling that even if all the "strawman slippery slope arguments" were true, and if the feds were tracking our library books, you still wouldn't have a problem with it?


7 posted on 12/15/2005 12:37:48 PM PST by sheltonmac (QUIS CUSTODIET IPSOS CUSTODES)
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To: jmc813

Then I will make sure I never pay attention to or offer support for them either.


8 posted on 12/15/2005 12:37:59 PM PST by justshutupandtakeit (Public Enemy #1, the RATmedia.)
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To: JTN
Courageous. Good for them.
9 posted on 12/15/2005 12:39:19 PM PST by BikerNYC (Modernman should not have been banned.)
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To: sheltonmac
Why do I get the feeling that even if all the "strawman slippery slope arguments" were true, and if the feds were tracking our library books, you still wouldn't have a problem with it?

Actually I would, but the problem is playing all these what if games, most of which aren't based in reality.. One can what if almost anything, any direction.. Instead of focusing on the what if, focus on the reality of how its used.
10 posted on 12/15/2005 12:43:09 PM PST by mnehring (“Anybody who doesn’t appreciate what America has done and President Bush, let them go to hell”...)
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To: justshutupandtakeit; holdonnow
Then I will make sure I never pay attention to or offer support for them either.

It's a bit hard to ignore the ACU, as their conservatism ratings are cited regularly here on FR. And the GOA is a terrific gun rights group. I believe that the PATRIOT Act is one of those issues can be disagreed upon by good conservatives. The aformentioned two groups oppose it while Mark Levin (whom I respect a great deal as well) supports it.

11 posted on 12/15/2005 12:45:16 PM PST by jmc813
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To: mnehrling
One can what if almost anything, any direction.. Instead of focusing on the what if, focus on the reality of how its used.

I disagree. It is always important to consider how a future President Hillary or worse would abuse a government power. Frankly, I don't want her to have access to my gun purchase records.

12 posted on 12/15/2005 12:50:14 PM PST by jmc813
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To: jmc813
I disagree. It is always important to consider how a future President Hillary or worse would abuse a government power. Frankly, I don't want her to have access to my gun purchase records.

Then we keep the law intact and ensure that we have good judges because they still have to issue the warrant. The problem with looking at the patriot act exclusively for things like your concern is that those records could just as easily be requested (by the same means- subpoena) if you were 'suspected' of being in the mafia.. the only difference is that the patriot act adds terrorists to the list..
13 posted on 12/15/2005 12:55:38 PM PST by mnehring (“Anybody who doesn’t appreciate what America has done and President Bush, let them go to hell”...)
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To: mnehrling

Not based in reality? So, it's just my imagination that RICO was used to go after pro-life groups? And the Patriot Act never was used to investigate Las Vegas strip club owners?

I can see why some people think such laws are necessary to keep the nation safe.


14 posted on 12/15/2005 12:56:04 PM PST by sheltonmac (QUIS CUSTODIET IPSOS CUSTODES)
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To: mnehrling
Then we keep the law intact and ensure that we have good judges because they still have to issue the warrant.

Since the President selects judges, this is of obviously limited value.

15 posted on 12/15/2005 1:04:29 PM PST by JTN ("We must win the War on Drugs by 2003." - Dennis Hastert, Feb. 25 1999)
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To: sheltonmac

Wow. I looked at your profile page. FReepers do indeed say the darndest things.


16 posted on 12/15/2005 1:06:07 PM PST by JTN ("We must win the War on Drugs by 2003." - Dennis Hastert, Feb. 25 1999)
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To: JTN
influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion

Never has our own government been more in need of intimidation than it is today.

17 posted on 12/15/2005 1:34:34 PM PST by Uncle Fud
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To: sheltonmac

Or how about the way the RAVE Act was used to shut down peaceful protests by threatening venues with prosecution?


18 posted on 12/15/2005 1:42:32 PM PST by PaxMacian
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To: justshutupandtakeit
Then I will make sure I never pay attention to or offer support for them either.

If you refuse to support conservatism or the right to keep and bear arms, what are you doing here?

19 posted on 12/15/2005 1:44:49 PM PST by steve-b (A desire not to butt into other people's business is eighty percent of all human wisdom)
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To: JTN
Imagine a Democratic president with the full powers of the Patriot Act
20 posted on 12/15/2005 1:49:03 PM PST by steve-b (A desire not to butt into other people's business is eighty percent of all human wisdom)
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To: justshutupandtakeit
Who are these nutcases? Leftwing liars, standard apostates or infiltrators?

According to the Center for Media and Democracy:

Rev. Pat Mahoney was formerly with the anti-abortion group Operation Rescue and is now executive director of the Christian Defense Coalition, "an informal but growing network of conservative, religious and disability organizations who, with the click of a computer mouse, are enlisting hundreds of thousands of people in Bob and Mary Schindler's fight to keep their daughter Terri Schiavo alive."

"The first goal of the campaign, Mahoney said, is to save Terri Schiavo's life. But he and others also hope to roll back the laws and ethical and medical guidelines that have evolved since 1990, when the U.S. Supreme Court recognized artificial sustenance and hydration as medical treatment." Knight Ridder, March 14, 2005 (http://www.bradenton.com/mld/bradenton/news/local/11129371.htm).

21 posted on 12/15/2005 2:07:36 PM PST by JTN ("We must win the War on Drugs by 2003." - Dennis Hastert, Feb. 25 1999)
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To: steve-b

Apparently you are under the mis-impression these two groups are synonymous with conservativism.


22 posted on 12/15/2005 2:12:10 PM PST by justshutupandtakeit (Public Enemy #1, the RATmedia.)
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To: JTN

Like I figured crackpots.


23 posted on 12/15/2005 2:12:47 PM PST by justshutupandtakeit (Public Enemy #1, the RATmedia.)
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To: JTN
Coalition especially concerned about the Patriot Act defining terrorism as "... .to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion."

Thought crimes, plain and simple. The funny thing is, this is supported by a lot of people who'd rightfully raise hell against the same logic when it's used in "hate crime" laws. Amazing how tightly the blinders are worn when Republican politicians give their seal of approval to something.

24 posted on 12/15/2005 3:13:35 PM PST by inquest (If you favor any legal status for illegal aliens, then do not claim to be in favor of secure borders)
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To: mnehrling
One can what if almost anything, any direction..

Yes, one can. That doesn't mean one should not do it in a way that's plausible. When dealing with government, if you're not asking "What if..?" you're not doing your job as a citizen.

25 posted on 12/15/2005 3:16:41 PM PST by inquest (If you favor any legal status for illegal aliens, then do not claim to be in favor of secure borders)
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To: inquest

Bombing a country or threatening to do so is coercive and should be outlawed.


26 posted on 12/15/2005 3:18:12 PM PST by rmlew (Sedition and Treason are both crimes, not free speech.)
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To: justshutupandtakeit
Like I figured crackpots.

Looking over this thread, it appears to me that there's only one poster who qualifies for "crazy uncle" status...

27 posted on 12/15/2005 3:19:46 PM PST by inquest (If you favor any legal status for illegal aliens, then do not claim to be in favor of secure borders)
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To: justshutupandtakeit
Like I figured crackpots.

Pro-life equals crackpot, eh? Good to know.

28 posted on 12/15/2005 6:12:13 PM PST by JTN ("We must win the War on Drugs by 2003." - Dennis Hastert, Feb. 25 1999)
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To: mnehrling
Actually I would, but the problem is playing all these what if games, most of which aren't based in reality.. One can what if almost anything, any direction.. Instead of focusing on the what if, focus on the reality of how its used.

Here's a dose of reality for you, Hillary Clinton. Blackbird.

29 posted on 12/16/2005 4:29:56 AM PST by BlackbirdSST
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To: JTN

No just those pretending that TS was not already dead for all practical purposes.

BTW Rush is speaking about the disastrous Senate decision to refuse to re-pass the meat of the Patriot Act. Free reign for terrorists once again.

Renewing the Patriot Act is the biggest Pro-life action the government could make. The nutcases carrying water for the Left in opposition are not Pro-Life rather Pro-Terrorist.


30 posted on 12/16/2005 10:24:33 AM PST by justshutupandtakeit (Public Enemy #1, the RATmedia.)
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To: inquest

Those who recognize the truth are always in the minority.


31 posted on 12/16/2005 10:25:55 AM PST by justshutupandtakeit (Public Enemy #1, the RATmedia.)
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To: justshutupandtakeit
Those who recognize the truth are always in the minority.

Often, but not always. Those who are delusional tend to be in the minority much more often. The chief difference between the two is that the former usually make some attempt to back up their position when they know they're in the minority.

32 posted on 12/16/2005 10:34:36 AM PST by inquest (If you favor any legal status for illegal aliens, then do not claim to be in favor of secure borders)
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To: inquest

Delusion is defined by paying more attention to the non-real than the real. The TS affair is the clearest example of delusion I have seen in many a day and it has hurt FR immensely because of the fanaticism unleashed. It has weakened the conservative movement more than anything I can think of off hand.


33 posted on 12/16/2005 10:47:55 AM PST by justshutupandtakeit (Public Enemy #1, the RATmedia.)
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To: sheltonmac

If you come back to this thread you will find some more good quotes. Also see this thread:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1541449/posts


34 posted on 12/16/2005 11:38:16 AM PST by JTN ("We must win the War on Drugs by 2003." - Dennis Hastert, Feb. 25 1999)
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To: justshutupandtakeit
Being fanatically attached to the Patriot Act doesn't help the forum much either.
35 posted on 12/16/2005 12:10:50 PM PST by inquest (If you favor any legal status for illegal aliens, then do not claim to be in favor of secure borders)
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