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Creation evangelist derides evolution as ‘dumbest’ theory [Kent Hovind Alert!]
University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee Post ^ | 17 December 2005 | Kayla Bunge

Posted on 12/17/2005 3:58:48 AM PST by PatrickHenry

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We haven't had a Kent Hovind thread in a long time.
1 posted on 12/17/2005 3:58:49 AM PST by PatrickHenry
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To: VadeRetro; Junior; longshadow; RadioAstronomer; Doctor Stochastic; js1138; Shryke; RightWhale; ...
Evolution Ping

The List-O-Links
A conservative, pro-evolution science list, now with over 320 names.
See the list's explanation, then FReepmail to be added or dropped.
To assist beginners: But it's "just a theory", Evo-Troll's Toolkit,
and How to argue against a scientific theory.

2 posted on 12/17/2005 3:59:39 AM PST by PatrickHenry (... endless horde of misguided Luddites ...)
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To: PatrickHenry

If Hovind says so, it must be so!! lol

Thanks for the ping.


3 posted on 12/17/2005 4:01:05 AM PST by CarolinaGuitarman ("There is a grandeur in this view of life...")
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To: PatrickHenry

I hope that's an observation, not a reason.


4 posted on 12/17/2005 4:02:38 AM PST by Oztrich Boy (so natural to mankind is intolerance in whatever they really care about - J S Mill)
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To: PatrickHenry

"“Tear that page out of your book,” he said. “Would you leave that in there just to lie to the kids?”"

He's promoting vandalism too. Who does he think he is, Robin Williams in the Dead Poets Society? What a loon. I DO think this deserves a few choice Jack Chick cartoons.


5 posted on 12/17/2005 4:06:46 AM PST by CarolinaGuitarman ("There is a grandeur in this view of life...")
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To: CarolinaGuitarman

Interesting, do you even know what he's
pointing out to be a lie? Why do you sacastically
spew "If Hovind says so!!"?

Evolution is such a ridiculous cult and why so many
scientist are blinded by it's UNscientific allure is
beyond me?

All Hovind does is point out FACTUAL untruths in text
books. ie, the spotted moth. He does have some theories,
that are just as valid as any scientific GUESS around.


6 posted on 12/17/2005 4:30:06 AM PST by sirchtruth (Words Mean Things...)
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To: PatrickHenry

Is he the same guy who came on the Ali G show?


7 posted on 12/17/2005 4:33:08 AM PST by CarrotAndStick (The articles posted by me needn't necessarily reflect my opinion.)
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To: sirchtruth
"Why do you sacastically
spew "If Hovind says so!!"? "

Hovind wouldn't know the truth if it bit him on the ass.

"All Hovind does is point out FACTUAL untruths in text
books. ie, the spotted moth"

The peppered moth is a fine example of natural selection in action. There is nothing wrong wrong with using it.

" He does have some theories,
that are just as valid as any scientific GUESS around."

His theory is he can make a lot of money selling videos to boobs with a 3rd grade education. He has a lot of supporting evidence for this theory. His other *theories*?; not so much.
8 posted on 12/17/2005 4:33:46 AM PST by CarolinaGuitarman ("There is a grandeur in this view of life...")
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To: sirchtruth
He does have some theories, that are just as valid as any scientific GUESS around.

you mean like his "theory" that the grand canyon was created in a 30 minute flashflood?

9 posted on 12/17/2005 4:35:48 AM PST by bobdsmith
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To: CarolinaGuitarman
Hovind wouldn't know the truth if it bit him on the ass.

LOL. This is the correct motorcycle.

Of course, there are always some who will believe some moron who calls himself Dr. Dino and thinks the income tax is voluntary.

Since he was raided by the IRS about a year and a half ago, there's probably an indictment looming in his relatively near future. Perhaps his next project will be grey-bar motel theme park.

10 posted on 12/17/2005 5:01:10 AM PST by AntiScumbag
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To: PatrickHenry

bump


11 posted on 12/17/2005 5:03:22 AM PST by tutstar (Baptist Ping List Freepmail me if you want on or off this ping list.)
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To: PatrickHenry

It is all about fleecing the flock.

Note that I didn't include the links for the above in the public interest.

12 posted on 12/17/2005 5:08:52 AM PST by peyton randolph (Warning! It is illegal to fatwah a camel in all 50 states)
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To: PatrickHenry
“In a nutshell, debates like this do not settle issues of scientific understanding,” he said. “Hovind and his arguments are not even in the same galaxy as legitimate scientific discourse. This is why the faculty here has universally decided not to engage Hovind. The result would be to give the appearance of a controversy where none exists.”

He added, “The faculty on campus is under no obligation to waste its time supporting Hovind’s little charade.”

Exactly and perfectly stated.

13 posted on 12/17/2005 5:11:37 AM PST by muir_redwoods (Free Sirhan Sirhan, after all, the bastard who killed Mary Jo Kopechne is walking around free)
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To: CarolinaGuitarman
The peppered moth is a fine example of natural selection in action. There is nothing wrong wrong with using it.

If YOU say so!

Look, my contention is evolution is not proven and shouldn't be taught as such.

14 posted on 12/17/2005 5:16:25 AM PST by sirchtruth (Words Mean Things...)
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To: AntiScumbag
Since he was raided by the IRS about a year and a half ago, there's probably an indictment looming in his relatively near future.

Yes, and this is the same stuff evolution is made up of, halftuths, speculative B.S. wishful thinking...

Thank you for providing a perfect example of the idiocy of agendized science.

15 posted on 12/17/2005 5:21:15 AM PST by sirchtruth (Words Mean Things...)
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To: sirchtruth
"If YOU say so!"

I do, and so does the evidence. The peppered moth example was never meant to show speciation.

" Look, my contention is evolution is not proven and shouldn't be taught as such."

No theory in science ever gets proven. Proof is for mathematics and whiskey. It's all about evidence in science; and Hovind with his fake diploma hasn't any. :)
16 posted on 12/17/2005 5:24:41 AM PST by CarolinaGuitarman ("There is a grandeur in this view of life...")
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To: bobdsmith
you mean like his "theory" that the grand canyon was created in a 30 minute flashflood?

Yeah, like the "theory" our ears use to be fish gills. Don't you remember when your ancestors were swimin' around? Someone HAD to come up out of the water to take that first breath!

17 posted on 12/17/2005 5:31:31 AM PST by sirchtruth (Words Mean Things...)
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To: PatrickHenry
Better dumb and right, than clever and wrong.
18 posted on 12/17/2005 5:33:10 AM PST by JasonC
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To: The Ghost of FReepers Past; ohioWfan; Tribune7; Tolkien; GrandEagle; Right in Wisconsin; Dataman; ..
“No professor wanted to defend his side,” he said. “I mean, we had seats reserved for their people … ’cause I know one objection could have been ‘Oh, it’s just a bunch of Christians.’ So we had seats reserved for them to bring people to make sure that it’s somewhat more equal, not just all against one. And still nobody would do it.”


Revelation 4:11Intelligent Design
See my profile for info

19 posted on 12/17/2005 5:34:41 AM PST by wallcrawlr (Pray for the troops [all the troops here and abroad]: Success....and nothing less!!)
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To: PatrickHenry

Wow, look what the flood did in about 30 minutes.”

LoL, That's where I stopped reading. That is just ignorant!


20 posted on 12/17/2005 5:34:50 AM PST by wolfcreek
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To: CarolinaGuitarman
It's all about evidence in science; and Hovind with his fake diploma hasn't any. :)

You mean like science allows such unproven, speculative crappola to be in text books?

The only thing that's fake that I know of for sure, is Evolution...;-)

21 posted on 12/17/2005 5:37:14 AM PST by sirchtruth (Words Mean Things...)
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To: PatrickHenry

Did UMW pay this clown to speak at the campus?


22 posted on 12/17/2005 5:39:13 AM PST by Ben Chad
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To: sirchtruth
"You mean like science allows such unproven, speculative crappola to be in text books?"

No, the don't put Hovind's stuff in. Only science. :)

"The only thing that's fake that I know of for sure, is Evolution...;-)"

Only if you don't know anything about it. :)
23 posted on 12/17/2005 5:39:59 AM PST by CarolinaGuitarman ("There is a grandeur in this view of life...")
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To: wolfcreek

He lost me sooner. Once he started with all the accusations about lies, that turned me off. Even though one disagrees with the ToE, this is no way to start a debate. It damages his credibility. Actually, I did read further but was not impressed. *sigh*


24 posted on 12/17/2005 5:42:36 AM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: wolfcreek

I listened to two "brilliant" evolutionists who agreed hands down with Darwin....The problem with what I heard is it reduces man to "just a series of genetic events" and disconnects man from the wonders of the universe at large.


25 posted on 12/17/2005 5:43:11 AM PST by Sacajaweau (God Bless Our Troops!!)
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To: PatrickHenry; tutstar; 2Jedismom; Sybeck1; pamlet; aumrl; HeadOn; mariabush; nmh; Ingtar; ...

Baptist ping


26 posted on 12/17/2005 5:43:17 AM PST by WKB (If you can't dazzle them with brilliance.. then Baffle them with BS)
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To: peyton randolph

From the cover of the book, it would seem that Hovind believes that humans and dinosaurs co-existed. I wonder how much of his "science" he got from the old "Flintstones" cartoons?


27 posted on 12/17/2005 5:45:23 AM PST by Wilhelm Tell (True or False? This is not a tag line.)
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To: PatrickHenry

And people wonder why we are afraid of the right wing.


28 posted on 12/17/2005 5:47:42 AM PST by MonroeDNA (Look for the union label--on the bat crashing through your windshield!)
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To: Wilhelm Tell
From the cover of the book, it would seem that Hovind believes that humans and dinosaurs co-existed. I wonder how much of his "science" he got from the old "Flintstones" cartoons?

Good point.


29 posted on 12/17/2005 5:49:41 AM PST by peyton randolph (Warning! It is illegal to fatwah a camel in all 50 states)
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To: CarolinaGuitarman
Only if you don't know anything about it. :)

But that's the point I'm making. What if the only thing I did know about evolution is from some of these text books, which much of the information in them is pure B.S. and you and scientist know this!!

There are many factors and agendas in the LIE of evolution AS A FACT. Intellegent Design might not be pure science, but it holds as much validity as the TOE.

Mutations are not evolution.

30 posted on 12/17/2005 6:03:11 AM PST by sirchtruth (Words Mean Things...)
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To: wolfcreek
LoL, That's where I stopped reading. That is just ignorant!

About the place where I stopped reading was "something exploded from nothing."

Now, that's pure ignorance!

31 posted on 12/17/2005 6:06:02 AM PST by sirchtruth (Words Mean Things...)
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To: sirchtruth
"But that's the point I'm making. What if the only thing I did know about evolution is from some of these text books..."

It's obvious that that is not where your *info* is from.

"There are many factors and agendas in the LIE of evolution AS A FACT. Intellegent Design might not be pure science, but it holds as much validity as the TOE."

Now, if you would sit down, count to ten, and maybe actually attempt to enlighten us as to just what it is that is wrong with evolution, maybe something good could come of this. Otherwise, your ranting and whining is only going to make you look like a 5 year old.

"Mutations are not evolution."

And nobody said that they were.
32 posted on 12/17/2005 6:06:47 AM PST by CarolinaGuitarman ("There is a grandeur in this view of life...")
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To: sirchtruth
halftuths, speculative B.S. wishful thinking...

Really?

The fact is that Hovind was raided on 4/14/04. Seems he hasn't bothered to report some millions of dollars of gross income. Or bothered to withhold taxes on his employees.

IRS Special Agent Scott M. Schneider had this to say is his affidavit for a search warrant:

“In summary, affiant states that based upon the information set forth above there is probable cause to believe that HOVIND has and is committing violations of Title 26, United States Code, Sections 7201 (Attempt to Evade or Defeat Tax), 7202 (Willful Failure to Pay Over or Collect Tax), 7203 (Willful Failure to File) and 7212(a) (Attempts to interfere With Administration of the Internal Revenue Laws) and that evidence of said violations can be found at and on the premises of 29 Cummings Road, Pensacola, Florida. Since 1997, HOVIND has engaged in financial transactions indicating sources of income and has made deposits to bank accounts well in excess of $1,000,000.00 per year during some of these years which would require the filing of federal income tax returns. Affiant has reason to believe that HOVIND has failed and continues to fail to withhold federal employment taxes from the individuals he employs at DAL and CSE. Affiant also has probable cause to believe that HOVIND, through his website writings and internet and bookstore sales, has continued to encourage others to attempt to evade taxes and willfully fail to file individual income tax returns in order to impede the lawful function of the Internal Revenue Service. Based upon the information provided herein, Affiant believes that there is probable cause to believe that evidence of these aforementioned violations, as specifically described in Attachment B, have been and are currently present at the locations of 29 Cummings Road, Pensacola, Florida, more specifically described in Attachment A.”

So, there you have what the IRS Criminal Investigations Division is looking at.

They generally don't bother to raid people who have filed accurate personal returns.

They generally don't bother to raid employers who have accurately withheld and paid taxes on their employees.

The IRS would know whether or not he's filed the returns of which Schneider speaks, now, wouldn't they?

Nutball Hovind whined and bitched and moaned in court via a goofy pro se motion about the search warrant. He got exactly nowhere. What a surprise.

Thank you for providing a perfect example of your idiocy. It seems to extend not just to science, but also to tax law.

But, don't worry, he'll be indicted soon!

33 posted on 12/17/2005 6:15:16 AM PST by AntiScumbag
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To: Ben Chad; PatrickHenry
Did UMW pay this clown to speak at the campus?

LOL. This is how Hovind makes a living - he doesn't speak for free. If you look up his tax lien (available here in PDF format) and then work the tax tables backwards (Hovind is married, right?), you realize that the IRS is calculating his 1995 income at about $430,000, 1996 at about $365,000, and 1997 at around $750,000.

Hovind filed an affidavit regarding his tax lien a few months ago (affidavit in PDF format), which is an amusing read for a few reasons. One is his claim of a "vow of poverty" he took in 1989. Two, his omission of the doctor in "Dr. Dino" - the only degree he mentions is a bachelor's of religious eduction from an unaccredited Bible college in Michigan. And three, his claim that ministering is not a "trade or business", hence income received from ministering is tax-exempt, and his apparent claim that being a self-employed minister makes one a church, and therefore all income is tax-exempt under 508(c)(1).

34 posted on 12/17/2005 6:16:21 AM PST by Senator Bedfellow
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To: CarolinaGuitarman
Now, if you would sit down, count to ten, and maybe actually attempt to enlighten us as to just what it is that is wrong with evolution,

Yeah...right!(for the millionth time) There is no SCIENTIFIC proof evolution is valid, yet it is taught in such a way that would lead a mind of mush to believe it is fact...and some evolutionist will flatty state it is FACT! For a scientist to take something that is not FACT and parade as if it were are not being true to their profession, or anyone else...

It's elistist minds being duped into an agenda, based on a huge lie. No different than liberals stating half truths and not admitting them as such.

There's your ten count...

35 posted on 12/17/2005 6:20:16 AM PST by sirchtruth (Words Mean Things...)
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To: AntiScumbag

Yeah, what does all this have to do with the LIE of
evolution?


36 posted on 12/17/2005 6:27:55 AM PST by sirchtruth (Words Mean Things...)
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To: PatrickHenry
"Stupid is as Stupid does"
37 posted on 12/17/2005 6:28:01 AM PST by Vaquero ("An armed society is a polite society" R. A. Heinlein)
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To: PatrickHenry
Hovind and his arguments are not even in the same galaxy as legitimate scientific discourse.

This probably a clue to the origins of a lot of the trolls who infest this forum.

38 posted on 12/17/2005 6:28:52 AM PST by shuckmaster (An oak tree is an acorns way of making more acorns)
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To: sirchtruth

Since I asked for some of your *facts* that disprove evolution, and all you have are more rants and whines, I will conclude you don't know of anything that goes against evolution or else you are too scared to post them. Either way, I win. :)


39 posted on 12/17/2005 6:30:03 AM PST by CarolinaGuitarman ("There is a grandeur in this view of life...")
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To: sirchtruth
Yeah, like the "theory" our ears use to be fish gills. Don't you remember when your ancestors were swimin' around? Someone HAD to come up out of the water to take that first breath!

Of course there is evidence for that, wheras the grand canyon being created in 30 minutes is simply ludicrous. As if Hovinds example of layering of mud in a garden has anything to do with layering of hard rocks like limestone.

40 posted on 12/17/2005 6:30:54 AM PST by bobdsmith
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To: sirchtruth
the only LIE I know of is the Long Island Expressway and it hasn't evolved in many years.

as far as lies go....or more correctly misinformation, just read the writings of the superstitious, bronze age, sandal wearing, goat herders.
41 posted on 12/17/2005 6:30:57 AM PST by Vaquero ("An armed society is a polite society" R. A. Heinlein)
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To: sirchtruth

OK We got it. The idea makes you feel uncomfortable. And yout feelings matter.


42 posted on 12/17/2005 6:31:19 AM PST by Oztrich Boy (so natural to mankind is intolerance in whatever they really care about - J S Mill)
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To: sirchtruth
Yeah, what does all this have to do with the LIE of evolution?

I'll take that as an admission that Hovind is a scammer, a tax cheat and a nutball.

43 posted on 12/17/2005 6:36:32 AM PST by AntiScumbag
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To: Senator Bedfellow; AntiScumbag
So, basically Hovind is a criminal fleecing the brainwashed flock by calling a couple of centuries worth of scientific research a lie and the Luddites swarm to him with $millions in donations?
44 posted on 12/17/2005 6:43:11 AM PST by shuckmaster (An oak tree is an acorns way of making more acorns)
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To: sirchtruth
There is no SCIENTIFIC proof evolution is valid, yet it is taught in such a way that would lead a mind of mush to believe it is fact...and some evolutionist will flatty state it is FACT!

Please tell me you're just paraphrasing some big media huckster and aren't really ignorant enough to honestly believe what your posting here? Please?

45 posted on 12/17/2005 6:46:13 AM PST by shuckmaster (An oak tree is an acorns way of making more acorns)
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To: CarolinaGuitarman
Since I asked for some of your *facts* that disprove evolution,

How do you provide FACTS which disprove something when there's no facts which prove the premise in the first place. Here I'll give you one fact that ends the debate.

Evolution can not be observed because of the "stated" amount of time it would take for one species to evolve into another. The only problem with this fact is the definition of "species." A dog, is a dog, is a dog.

46 posted on 12/17/2005 6:49:16 AM PST by sirchtruth (Words Mean Things...)
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Comment #47 Removed by Moderator

To: shuckmaster
the Luddites swarm to him with $millions in donations?

They love his tax-exempt theme park!

Fits right in with the rest of their delusions.

48 posted on 12/17/2005 6:54:20 AM PST by AntiScumbag
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To: PatrickHenry

Thanks for the ping!


49 posted on 12/17/2005 6:55:11 AM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: sirchtruth

" Evolution can not be observed because of the "stated" amount of time it would take for one species to evolve into another."

False:
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-speciation.html
http://online.santarosa.edu/presentation/?3205

BTW, direct observation is only ONE way to gather evidence about something. Many theories in science are centered on indirect observations.


"The only problem with this fact is the definition of "species." A dog, is a dog, is a dog."

Why is this a problem? How do YOU define species?


50 posted on 12/17/2005 6:55:50 AM PST by CarolinaGuitarman ("There is a grandeur in this view of life...")
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