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Creation evangelist derides evolution as ‘dumbest’ theory [Kent Hovind Alert!]
University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee Post ^ | 17 December 2005 | Kayla Bunge

Posted on 12/17/2005 3:58:48 AM PST by PatrickHenry

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To: CarolinaGuitarman
His theory is he can make a lot of money selling videos to boobs with a 3rd grade education.

Especially if he doesn't pay taxes, which seems to be the case so far.

101 posted on 12/17/2005 8:01:55 AM PST by VadeRetro (Liberalism is a cancer on society. Creationism is a cancer on conservatism.)
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To: Full Court
Perhaps you missed this part of the article:

In a sworn statement to obtain a search warrant, IRS agent Scott Schneider said none of Hovind's enterprises has a business license or tax-exempt status as a nonprofit entity.

"Since 1997, Hovind has engaged in financial transactions indicating sources of income and has made deposits to bank accounts well in excess of $1 million per year during some of these years, which would require the filing of federal income taxes," Schneider said.

I guess I won't wait by the phone for your retraction.

102 posted on 12/17/2005 8:02:03 AM PST by Senator Bedfellow
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To: CarolinaGuitarman

Haeckel (1834—1919), a flamboyant German biologist, provided a series of drawings which conveniently demonstrated just this. These pictures appear even today in graduate-level biology textbooks, such as American Academy of Science president Bruce Alberts’ Molecular Biology of the Cell, with no statement that this evidence is a well-established blatant fraud, a shameless fake. Even Darwin, who called this his ‘strongest single class of facts’, was duped.

Photographs of the embryos Haeckel selected demonstrate virtually no resemblance with his drawings. Additionally, Haeckel did not draw the first stage of growth, where closest resemblance was predicted, but selected precisely the stages where five (out of the seven) carefully selected vertebrate classes are least different. For the amphibian class the natural choice would have been a frog, which looks, however, very different than the other four organisms used, so a salamander was used as (uh) representative (ahem) for this class. Apparently all this was not good enough for him. ‘In some cases, Haeckel used the same woodcut to print embryos that were supposedly from different classes’ (p. 91).

Although the embryos vary in size from less than 1 mm to almost 10 mm, Haeckel portrayed them the same size. Wells points out that the processes of cleavage (subdivision in many separate cells without overall growth) and gastrulation (movement and rearrangement of the cells to form organs and other structures) proceed before the point in time drawn by Haeckel. Here is where Darwin’s expectations should be tested, and there is ‘certainly not a pattern in which the earliest stages are the most similar and later stages are more different’ (p. 97). In fact, the evidence points clearly to unrelated lineages and not a common ancestor.

Another myth is the claim human embryos go through a fish-like stage and display gill slits. These pharyngeal folds are not gills.14 Ironically, they’re not even gills in pharyngula-stage fish embryos, although they do develop into these later, ‘but in a reptile, mammal, or bird they develop into other structures entirely (such as the inner ear and parathyroid gland)’ (p. 107). In reptiles, mammals, and birds they never resemble gills, and what is observed are merely some parallel lines in the neck region.

Professor Douglas Futuyma, author of the 1998 textbook Evolutionary Biology, responded in February 2000 via an internet forum to a critic who had accused him of lying by using Haeckel’s drawings as evidence for evolution. He admitted he had not been aware of Haeckel’s dishonesty, a rather staggering admission.


http://www.answersingenesis.org/tj/v15/i2/textbooks.asp


103 posted on 12/17/2005 8:02:07 AM PST by Full Court (Keepers at home, do you think it's optional?)
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To: Senator Bedfellow

Non profit Ministries now have to pay taxes?


104 posted on 12/17/2005 8:03:23 AM PST by Full Court (Keepers at home, do you think it's optional?)
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To: PatrickHenry

So how about one you wise-en-heimers debate him and collect the cash? Nah ya got no facts just snide remarks....jokers...lol!


105 posted on 12/17/2005 8:04:04 AM PST by free_life
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To: sirchtruth
About the place where I stopped reading was "something exploded from nothing."

If you were reading that, you were reading Gish, Morris, Sarfati... someone like that. And you clearly didn't stop.

106 posted on 12/17/2005 8:06:01 AM PST by VadeRetro (Liberalism is a cancer on society. Creationism is a cancer on conservatism.)
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To: Full Court
Man, you are really showing your ignorance!!!

Assuming what you say is true (Praise [insert your favorite deity's name here]!), you're talking about loss leader marketing materials. Done all of the time in business...and in religion as a business. Fleecing the flock. Most sheep are too dumb to recognize the shears. Say "Baa."

107 posted on 12/17/2005 8:06:52 AM PST by peyton randolph (Warning! It is illegal to fatwah a camel in all 50 states)
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To: Baraonda
"But I do believe that history will, and shall, repeat itself."

I'm sorry, did you just call for the burning of scientists? Its just so laughably Luddite that I want to make sure I understand what you saying.
108 posted on 12/17/2005 8:06:53 AM PST by ndt
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To: Full Court
Well's a Moonie loony. Haeckel's drawings are not used today.

"Even Darwin, who called this his ‘strongest single class of facts’, was duped. "

Absolute lie. He used von Baer's embryological ideas, not Haeckel's.

Apparently you didn't have the courage to read the link I gave tearing to shreds Well's take on Haeckel. Not shocking.
109 posted on 12/17/2005 8:09:20 AM PST by CarolinaGuitarman ("There is a grandeur in this view of life...")
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To: Full Court

Even ministers have to pay taxes on their income. If Kent's been doing a crappy job of keeping his personal assets seperate from his ministry's assets, he's got nobody to blame for this but himself.


110 posted on 12/17/2005 8:09:23 AM PST by Senator Bedfellow
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To: free_life

His *offer* is not winnable because he has redefined what evolution means. It's not an offer made in good faith.

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/hovind.html


111 posted on 12/17/2005 8:10:57 AM PST by CarolinaGuitarman ("There is a grandeur in this view of life...")
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To: Baraonda
What a lovely person you are! Your scientific arguments are particularly convincing.
112 posted on 12/17/2005 8:14:09 AM PST by VadeRetro (Liberalism is a cancer on society. Creationism is a cancer on conservatism.)
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To: PatrickHenry

That's a good one! It caught my attention when he posted it.


113 posted on 12/17/2005 8:17:14 AM PST by shuckmaster (An oak tree is an acorns way of making more acorns)
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To: VadeRetro
Your scientific arguments are particularly convincing.

You can't hide from the stake, monkey boy!
</internet idiot mode>

114 posted on 12/17/2005 8:18:09 AM PST by PatrickHenry (... endless horde of misguided Luddites ...)
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To: Baraonda
In another time, another age, its adherents used to be burned at the stake or given the rope. Nowadays, fortunately for the spineless darwinists, they're hiding behind a screen monitor. But I do believe that history will, and shall, repeat itself. The anti-Christs can hide, but can't run away from the stake.

I hope that when they come to get me, you're at the head of the pack.

115 posted on 12/17/2005 8:19:40 AM PST by Senator Bedfellow
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To: PatrickHenry
Such ambiguity! Do I get burned at it or is it to be driven through my heart?
116 posted on 12/17/2005 8:21:10 AM PST by VadeRetro (Liberalism is a cancer on society. Creationism is a cancer on conservatism.)
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To: peyton randolph
Fleecing the flock. Most sheep are too dumb to recognize the shears. Say "Baa."

Hey babe, when they guy will come and preach for free, and takes the copyright off all his materials so that anyone can reproduce them, there isn't any fleecing going on.

117 posted on 12/17/2005 8:22:32 AM PST by Full Court (Keepers at home, do you think it's optional?)
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To: All
The conservative, pro-evolution ping list has gone over 330 names this morning. It's one of the largest ping lists on FreeRepublic. We demonstrate that many conservatives are educated, literate, and deeply committed to the advance of science -- a rational enterprise which is a core value of Western Civilization.
118 posted on 12/17/2005 8:23:41 AM PST by PatrickHenry (... endless horde of misguided Luddites ...)
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To: PatrickHenry
Debating Hovind on science would be like debating Ted Bundy on the death penalty.

Still, I'd do it. I love a circus. I presume a few minutes devoted to my adversary's 'career' would be permitted?

119 posted on 12/17/2005 8:24:25 AM PST by Right Wing Professor
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To: VadeRetro
Such ambiguity! Do I get burned at it or is it to be driven through my heart?

If he's thinking logically [stop laughing] but can't run away from the stake. implies that it's mobile.

120 posted on 12/17/2005 8:25:23 AM PST by Oztrich Boy (so natural to mankind is intolerance in whatever they really care about - J S Mill)
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To: CarolinaGuitarman
Haeckel's drawings are not used today.

ROTFL!!! They are used and often!! I checked out a book when I was pregnant to show my son the progression of the growth of the baby and what did we get??? Haeckel drawings, and the book was copyrighted 1996.

They are also used in a booklet by the National Science Foundation.

See, evolution is a lie, is based on a lie and it has nothing but lies as it's foundation. That's why those fake drawings are still being used. The Evo fairy tale people have nothing else.

121 posted on 12/17/2005 8:26:13 AM PST by Full Court (Keepers at home, do you think it's optional?)
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To: PatrickHenry

Kent Hovind's $250,000 Offer


122 posted on 12/17/2005 8:28:13 AM PST by shuckmaster (An oak tree is an acorns way of making more acorns)
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To: Full Court
Hey babe, when they guy will come and preach for free, and takes the copyright off all his materials so that anyone can reproduce them, there isn't any fleecing going on.

When the IRS finds that he is taking in more than a $ 1 million a year (see prior posts), doesn't have business licenses, tax-exempt status, or pay taxes, then yes, there is some fleecing occurring. Being a good Christian, isn't Dr. Dino supposed to be rendering under Caesar? Guess not.

123 posted on 12/17/2005 8:30:14 AM PST by peyton randolph (Warning! It is illegal to fatwah a camel in all 50 states)
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To: Full Court
"ROTFL!!! They are used and often!! I checked out a book when I was pregnant to show my son the progression of the growth of the baby and what did we get??? Haeckel drawings, and the book was copyrighted 1996."

That's not true. They DO use photographs of embryo's though. That's different than the drawings that Haeckel used.

"See, evolution is a lie, is based on a lie and it has nothing but lies as it's foundation. That's why those fake drawings are still being used. The Evo fairy tale people have nothing else."

The lie is the insistence that Haeckel's drawings are still used. They aren't.
124 posted on 12/17/2005 8:30:18 AM PST by CarolinaGuitarman ("There is a grandeur in this view of life...")
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To: Full Court
BTW, the IRS has tried the same tactic with Kent before and they ended up apologizing and returning his cars.

Now THAT would qualify as a miracle. Sounds like evidence of God to me.

125 posted on 12/17/2005 8:30:36 AM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: PatrickHenry; RadioAstronomer
Why is it that whenever there is a thread about Hovind, a bunch belligerent bozos with bad grammar show up to defend him? It's like some sort of law of nature....

I must thank you and the GrandMaster of DarwinCentral™ himself, PH; this thread is one of the delighfully entertaining amusements I've seen in a long time -- a perfect diversion for a pre-Christmas Weekend.

126 posted on 12/17/2005 8:35:38 AM PST by longshadow
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To: longshadow
YOU TOO WILL BURN AT THE STAKE, ANTI-CHRIST!!!


/demented creo rant mode
127 posted on 12/17/2005 8:37:27 AM PST by CarolinaGuitarman ("There is a grandeur in this view of life...")
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To: Powerclam
Similar to a line I used a couple of threads ago:

if you want proof, try mathematics, photography, or a fine Scotch

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-backroom/1541028/posts?page=220#220
128 posted on 12/17/2005 8:40:07 AM PST by Coyoteman (I love the sound of beta decay in the morning!)
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To: CarolinaGuitarman

Evolutionists at the stake
(creationist fantasy)
129 posted on 12/17/2005 8:40:10 AM PST by PatrickHenry (... endless horde of misguided Luddites ...)
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To: PatrickHenry
"Kent Hovind, a former high school science teacher turned creation science evangelist, said that evolution is the "dumbest and most dangerous theory on planet Earth" at a program in the Union on Dec. 6."

I couldn't agree more. He states it politely.

I'm still waiting for my gold fish to "evolve" into a cat. How silly people are ... to believe in "evolution" and all the nonsense that goes with it.
130 posted on 12/17/2005 8:42:25 AM PST by nmh (Intelligent people believe in Intelligent Design (God))
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To: ndt; Baraonda

(With thanks to Jesus's General)

131 posted on 12/17/2005 8:43:10 AM PST by Right Wing Professor
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To: Coyoteman

I've been using my line for a while, but I think I may have *borrowed* the main idea from a different quote I heard or read somewhere else. I forgot to add photography though; this is odd since my father was professional photographer for a long time. lol


132 posted on 12/17/2005 8:44:53 AM PST by CarolinaGuitarman ("There is a grandeur in this view of life...")
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To: CarolinaGuitarman
They DO use photographs of embryo's though.

Jonathan Wells assigns textbooks a grade of "D" for using photographs of embryos to make any points about evolution.

To improve their grade to a D, a book uses "misleading photographs" of real embryos instead of the Haeckelian drawings. Again, however, what is the objection here? These aren't fudged or inaccurate drawings. They are photographs of vertebrate embryos that accurately illustrate what they look like, that anyone with a microscope and access to embryos can see (Figure 3). Is it next on his agenda to condemn classes that allow students to examine live or preserved embryos in the laboratory?
Figure 3. A chick embryo at the second day of development. The peculiar way that the vertebrate face is initially structured from arches of tissue (the jaw arch, j, and the 2nd, or hyoid arch, h, are labeled) that subsequently rearrange themselves is clearly seen.

Wells and Haeckel's Embryos.
133 posted on 12/17/2005 8:45:55 AM PST by VadeRetro (Liberalism is a cancer on society. Creationism is a cancer on conservatism.)
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To: nmh
"I'm still waiting for my gold fish to "evolve" into a cat."

Ah, the number of strawmen that creationists can create knows no limits.
134 posted on 12/17/2005 8:46:28 AM PST by CarolinaGuitarman ("There is a grandeur in this view of life...")
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To: longshadow
I must thank you and the GrandMaster of DarwinCentral™ himself, PH; this thread is one of the delightfully entertaining amusements I've seen in a long time -- a perfect diversion for a pre-Christmas Weekend.

The Grand Master accepts your thanks. Tracking Hovind's career is one of the few amusements he allows himself.

On behalf of the Grand Master, I am,
PatrickHenry

135 posted on 12/17/2005 8:47:11 AM PST by PatrickHenry (... endless horde of misguided Luddites ...)
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To: PatrickHenry

[“In a nutshell, debates like this do not settle issues of scientific understanding,”...]


A debate between the supporters of evolution and creationism is like a debate between the supporters of bicycles and bananas.


136 posted on 12/17/2005 8:49:03 AM PST by spinestein (All journalists today are paid advocates for someone's agenda.)
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To: CarolinaGuitarman

The Heackle drawings WERE and ARE used. You can lie until you are blue in the face, but they are still used. In fact, a friend of mine has a copy of the pages of that book. I made the copy at the time and sent them to him.

The evolution fairy take rests on nothing but lies and the Heackle drawings are just more proof of that.


137 posted on 12/17/2005 8:49:03 AM PST by Full Court (Keepers at home, do you think it's optional?)
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To: nmh
I'm still waiting for my gold fish to "evolve" into a cat. How silly people are ... to believe in "evolution" and all the nonsense that goes with it.

I'm waiting for creationists to evolve normal levels of intelligence and integrity, but my money's on your goldfish.

138 posted on 12/17/2005 8:49:50 AM PST by VadeRetro (Liberalism is a cancer on society. Creationism is a cancer on conservatism.)
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To: VadeRetro

"Your scientific arguments are particularly convincing."

Thank you and Merry Christmas to you and your loved ones.

May the good Lord shower you with health, prosperity, happiness and wisdom.


139 posted on 12/17/2005 8:52:08 AM PST by Baraonda (Demographic is destiny. Don't hire 3rd world illegal aliens nor support businesses that hire them.)
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To: ndt

"Its just so laughably Luddite that I want to make sure I understand what you saying."

What's so "laughably Luddite?"


140 posted on 12/17/2005 8:53:30 AM PST by Baraonda (Demographic is destiny. Don't hire 3rd world illegal aliens nor support businesses that hire them.)
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To: Full Court
If you think the IRS waits a year and a half to indict people, you will be quite happy believing the fairty tale of evolution.

You really are totally clueless, aren't you?

The IRS, in conjuction with the DOJ (the IRS can't indict anyone, they refer criminal cases to the DOJ for prosecution after they have conducted their investigation) routinely takes years to get around to bringing criminal charges.

Take a look at recently convicted tax protesters/tax cheats Schiff, Rose, Meredith and Thompson. All of those cases dragged on for far more than one lousy year beyond the point where the IRS got interested in their activities.

You seem to think that your boy can do no wrong because he hasn't yet been criminally indicted and/or civilly enjoined. Believe it or not, it can take longer than a year or two to bring a scammer to justice.

I won't wait for your apology when you're finally disabused of your odd notion.

141 posted on 12/17/2005 8:54:02 AM PST by AntiScumbag
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To: Baraonda
May the good Lord shower you with health, prosperity, happiness and wisdom.

Before the stake catches me and wrestles me to the ground, yes. May you achieve calm and sobriety at the same time.

142 posted on 12/17/2005 8:54:29 AM PST by VadeRetro (Liberalism is a cancer on society. Creationism is a cancer on conservatism.)
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To: Senator Bedfellow

"I hope that when they come to get me, you're at the head of the pack."

You can always break that pact with the devil and repent. A little contrition goes a long way.


143 posted on 12/17/2005 8:55:12 AM PST by Baraonda (Demographic is destiny. Don't hire 3rd world illegal aliens nor support businesses that hire them.)
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To: nmh
How silly people are ... to believe in "evolution" and all the nonsense that goes with it.

And your explanation for these handsome creatures (and thousands of others) is...?



Herto skulls (Homo sapiens idaltu)

Some new fossils from Herto in Ethiopia, are the oldest known modern human fossils, at 160,000 yrs. The discoverers have assigned them to a new subspecies, Homo sapiens idaltu, and say that they are anatomically and chronologically intermediate between older archaic humans and more recent fully modern humans. Their age and anatomy is cited as strong evidence for the emergence of modern humans from Africa, and against the multiregional theory which argues that modern humans evolved in many places around the world.

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/herto.html

144 posted on 12/17/2005 8:56:09 AM PST by Coyoteman (I love the sound of beta decay in the morning!)
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To: AntiScumbag

I don't claim that he has "done no wrong." I personally do not know if he has or has not as far as that case is concerned.

I do know for a fact that the last time the IRS tried to harrass him, they ended up returning the cars they seized.

And if the IRS had anything to charge him with, they would of done so already.


145 posted on 12/17/2005 8:56:24 AM PST by Full Court (Keepers at home, do you think it's optional?)
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To: Baraonda
"What's so "laughably Luddite?"

Did you or did you not just call for the burning at the state of scientists (that would be antichrists to you)?
146 posted on 12/17/2005 8:56:25 AM PST by ndt
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To: Baraonda

Molon Labe.


147 posted on 12/17/2005 8:56:35 AM PST by Senator Bedfellow
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To: Coyoteman

Feathers added to a fossil? In these specimens we find powerful flight feathers on strong wings, shown as faint steaks radiating out from what appears to be a small reptile body. The head and body of Archaeopteryx is similar to that of a small coelurosaurian dinosaur, Compsognathus; the flight feathers are exactly like those of modern birds. If they were removed, the creature would appear to be only a small dinosaur. If you carefully examine a photograph of the "London specimen," you will note that the flight feathers consist only of carefully drawn lines!

http://www.pathlights.com/ce_encyclopedia/20hist09.htm


148 posted on 12/17/2005 8:57:33 AM PST by Full Court (Keepers at home, do you think it's optional?)
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To: CarolinaGuitarman
If you would have ever taken a course in the "Philosophy of Science"
You would know that the "Theory of Evolution" has never advanced
past a hypothetical construct.

b'shem Y'shua

149 posted on 12/17/2005 8:58:45 AM PST by Uri’el-2012 (Y'shua <==> YHvH is my Salvation (Psalm 118-14))
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To: shuckmaster

That public offer will never be paid out as there is no scientific proof of evolution. I guess that is the reason he made the offer.


150 posted on 12/17/2005 8:59:01 AM PST by Baraonda (Demographic is destiny. Don't hire 3rd world illegal aliens nor support businesses that hire them.)
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